Would this be a good table Saw?

[Stephen Bandirola]

Would this be a good home use table saw? I was thinking to replace the 3 phase motor with a single phase 240 volt and of course clean it up.

Does anyone know what brand it might be, The nameplate is missing.

[Matt Day]

Looks like a chopped up and put away soaking wet Unisaw. Guessing Uni based on the oval motor opening, not much else to go on.

Lots of negatives on the saw though:
Frame and plinth have been cut, I mean butchered.
Missing parts galore
Multiple feeder mounts says to me it’s been around the block a few dozen times.
Who knows what else given the little information.

I’d put a VFD on it before replacing the motor, but to each their own. Then again, I’d pass on that saw.

Edit: fence is makeshift too, looks like aluminum angle and mdf.
And that’s a creative blade guard.

[Jim Andrew]

Do you know what size blade fits this saw? My guess is old Powermatic.

[Lee Schierer]

I wouldn't pay over $75 for it as it sits. Unless you have a motor you are going to make a sizeable investment in a motor, starter, cord, plug and then have labor to clean it up and get it running. Make sure the arbor nut is there and freely moves. They can be a bear to replace.

[Dick Brown]

Did PM ever make a right tilt? My guess is a 12-14 Delta Rockwell.

[Ray Newman]

Could be wrong but it looks like one of many imports that flooded the US market in the early to mid '80's.

[Mike Kees]

I think Dick is right ,12-14 Rockwell. Beat to heck.

[Bill Dufour]

Looks like a chopped up and put away soaking wet Unisaw. Guessing Uni based on the oval motor opening, not much else to go on.


Not a Unisaw because the opening for the blade insert is not oval. it is a rectangle. I believe both Rockwell and Powermatic 12" saws have a rectangular insert for the blade.
Bill D.

On Edit; not a Powermatic, blade insert is on wrong side. could be delta/rockwell

[Mike Henderson]

I knowledgeable friend once gave me some advice about restoring old cars. He said "Let someone else do the restoration and then buy it restored. You'll come out cheaper." I think that applies to old woodworking tools, also.

Of course, in both cases if you enjoy the restoration work, do it yourself.

Mike

[Stephen Bandirola]

I haven't actually seen it in person yet (over an hour drive).
I have a 5hp single phase motor it is clockwise rotation viewed from the shaft end (non reversible) Is that the correct rotation?

I plan to go look at it this week. I will check arbor dia. and rust in the gears.
How hard and expensive is bearing replacement?
sounds like it would have to be around $100 or less to even be worth it. He is asking $200.

Steve

[Frank Pratt]

I haven't actually seen it in person yet (over an hour drive).
I have a 5hp single phase motor it is clockwise rotation viewed from the shaft end (non reversible) Is that the correct rotation?

I plan to go look at it this week. I will check arbor dia. and rust in the gears.
How hard and expensive is bearing replacement?
sounds like it would have to be around $100 or less to even be worth it. He is asking $200.

Steve

Rotation is easily changed, but there is more than that to be concerned with. You need the right frame, shaft size & RPM.

Personally, I wouldn't take on that project even if it was free. By the time you get it operational & reasonably safe, you'd spend as much as you would on a very decent brand new, with warranty, contractor saw that would work much better in a home shop environment.

[Matt Day]

It’s hard to turn down a machine you are excited about, but just because it’s $200 doesn’t mean it’s a good buy.

[Dave Cav]

I'd pass on it, too. I agree that it looks like a really beat up Delta 12/14" table saw, which is an oversized Unisaw. It's missing a lot of parts. Unless you REALLY need a 12" saw and have some experience in rebuilding old equipment, $200 isn't a particularly good deal for this thing. I have a 12/14 which I paid considerably more than that for, and I tore it completely down and restored it, and it's a great saw, but it was all intact when I started.

Replacing the bearings isn't generally difficult, but you'll want to take the top off, and the top is VERY heavy (two or three man heavy) even after you remove the wings, and the wings are pretty heavy too. The motor will be very heavy and cumbersome, too. A shop crane/engine hoist/cherry picker is almost mandatory for rebuilding this saw. The arbor on these saws can be beat up, and they're generally no longer available, and they are 1" so if you already have a saw with 10" 5/8" bore blades, you'll need new blades, too.

[Stephen Bandirola]

Thank you everybody, based on the advise here I will pass.
A big iron table saw is just so attractive though.

[Richard Coers]

Used woodworking machinery is at a price now where it would be silly to buy a dog like that saw. When the market was at it's peak from the late 70s to early 90s, some people had to buy machines like that. Now there are a lot of baby boomers downsizing or the ultimate downsizing of dying, that the used market is steadily dropping.

[Stephen Bandirola]

Where are you finding all these used cabinet saws at good prices?

The only ones I see are almost new prices.

[Bill Dufour]

USA, Where do you live?
Bill D

[Stephen Bandirola]

Sacramento

[Bill Dufour]

Search Tempest is a great help for Craigslist. I would include Reno to Bakersfield in your search.

[Bill Dufour]

today on clist there is a delta 12/14 saw for $350 in Sebastopool. This is a great deal if you have the room, wish I had room and time to clean it up. Worth that price for the Bisemeyer fence.
Unisaw for $500 in Watsonville.
Bil lD.

[Carl Beckett]

Now there are a lot of baby boomers downsizing or the ultimate downsizing of dying, that the used market is steadily dropping.

lmao. I am on this path... (arent we all!)

Was wondering if I should write out some instructions for my survivors. A lot of equipment packed into my shop that none of them would understand the value of (especially true of hand tools and smaller items).

I lived this when my father died (before CL), he was a mechanic. Had people show up just to grossly lowball everything. Mom had no idea and I was just a teenager but had a clue.

To this day I remember some who showed up, offered respectable advice and prices on what they wanted (many of these were work colleagues). It made an impression such that I will NOT low ball a grieving family to this day.

[Bob Vaughan]

The observers are correct. That saw started out from the factory in the 1950s as a Rockwell/Delta 34-350. What it is now is a chopped up mess. Another 'gotcha' detail is that many of those saws came with an 1-1/8" arbor instead of a 1" arbor. That can be another ugly surprise.

[johnny means]

I have no plans to leave my family with issues like this to deal with. I'm just going top leave all my personal junk to some person or group that can use it. Personally, I don't feel like I need to leave every penny possible to my family.

[Dick Brown]

Add arbor size, oversize miter slots, footprint, 3ph., butchered cabinet, I would only take it for salvage and maybe have second thoughts then. l always wanted a 12-14 and did buy a nice one. After getting it home and facing all the issues it brought with it, sold it and never looked back.

[Stephen Bandirola]

Thinking about the space I have (half a two car garage) a 12-14 is to big anyway.
Is $500 really that good a deal for the one in Watsonville it looks pretty rough?

[Tony Bilello]

Lets see

Old saw, missing parts, need a single phase motor...................You may never find the missing parts as 'spares". Which means you have to buy another piece of junk just for the parts. And.................your new hobby would be tool restoration, not woodworking.

[Doug Garson]

OK, I'm curious, what are all the parts missing from this saw? Miter gauge and nameplate..................?

[Bill Dufour]

I did not notice the one in Watsonville was three phase.
https://monterey.craigslist.org/tls/d/monterey-delta-unisaw-table/6782260759.html only looks to be missing the door. Probably single phase.
there is a Fay and Eagin that pops up from time to time. Too old for my taste.
Just to show you there is stuff on clist fairly local to you. Monterey is nice to visit if the weather is decent. Is the wood working store still there on lighthouse ave?
Bil lD
Unisaw mootrs are hard to adapt a standard base motor into. I understand the Delta 12/14 saw is a standard NEMA frame motor. Powermatic is suposed to be a standard C-face motor.

[Ray Newman]

RE: The missing parts -- rip fence looks shop made: aluminum and MDF or plyw'd. Not sure about the blade guard.

[Doug Garson]

I thought the issue was missing parts not non original parts. If the question was "is this a good saw to restore to original factory specs" the replacement parts would be an issue. I'm sure I'm not the only one on the forum with a replacement fence and shop made overarm guard on their saw that function better than the original factory ones. Don't get me wrong I don't think it is a good choice as a "home use" saw unless you have a big shop and need a monster of a saw because of the 12" blade and three phase power but as a working saw I don't see any critical missing parts based on the photos. It may look a little rough from the photos but looks can be deceiving, for all we know it might run like a Swiss watch and cut 8/4 oak like butter.

[Dave Cav]

I thought the issue was missing parts not non original parts. If the question was "is this a good saw to restore to original factory specs" the replacement parts would be an issue. I'm sure I'm not the only one on the forum with a replacement fence and shop made overarm guard on their saw that function better than the original factory ones. Don't get me wrong I don't think it is a good choice as a "home use" saw unless you have a big shop and need a monster of a saw because of the 12" blade and three phase power but as a working saw I don't see any critical missing parts based on the photos. It may look a little rough from the photos but looks can be deceiving, for all we know it might run like a Swiss watch and cut 8/4 oak like butter.

If we're talking about the 12/14 that started this thread, it appears to be missing at least the handwheel lock knobs, the dust door, the blade guard (and maybe the mounting hardware) probably the miter gauge, and a big chunk of the plinth. The fence appears to be either home made or a modified version of the original Jet-Lock type fence. It was an OK fence but not great and would probably need to be replaced with something a bit more modern. The Biesemeyer fence for this saw is an oversize model and not commonly seen any more. The miter gauge runs in a 1" slot, which makes it very difficult to source, and original 12/14 miter gauges go for a considerable premium. The saw would need to be COMPLETELY dismantled to repair the plinth and find out what else is broken or missing. This looks to me to be strictly a parts donor saw, and I can't imagine any commercial shop wanting to buy this and go through it to get it running.

[Bill Orbine]

There is a hack saw and there is a hacked saw. Some one cut into the base and cabinet of this machine. I'd walk away from this one!

[Doug Garson]

If we're talking about the 12/14 that started this thread, it appears to be missing at least the handwheel lock knobs, the dust door, the blade guard (and maybe the mounting hardware) probably the miter gauge, and a big chunk of the plinth. The fence appears to be either home made or a modified version of the original Jet-Lock type fence. It was an OK fence but not great and would probably need to be replaced with something a bit more modern. The Biesemeyer fence for this saw is an oversize model and not commonly seen any more. The miter gauge runs in a 1" slot, which makes it very difficult to source, and original 12/14 miter gauges go for a considerable premium. The saw would need to be COMPLETELY dismantled to repair the plinth and find out what else is broken or missing. This looks to me to be strictly a parts donor saw, and I can't imagine any commercial shop wanting to buy this and go through it to get it running.

OK, looking at photo #2 it appears to have a gear shaped locking knob on the front facing handwheel, not the original but might still be functional. Yes the dust door, but is that a big deal if you just want a functioning saw? Could it be easily replaced with a plywood panel? The chunk cut out of the plinth is a mystery, why was it cut out and what impact does it have on the saws functionality? Miter gauge yes but what % of used saws have the original miter gauge and how hard would it be to replace? Couldn't you take any aftermarket gauge like one of the Incras and replace the bar with a 1" bar? The blade guard and fence are not original but not missing and may be functional.

Again, I wouldn't be interested in the saw as I don't need a big beast of a saw like that nor am I in to refurbishing old iron. I just didn't see "missing parts galore" per post #2. The biggest negatives for a "home use" saw in my opinion would be the power requirements and the arbor size which would make most blades incompatible. I don't know if the plinth is a functional issue or just cosmetics.

[Brian P Healy]

The cut out in the front of this saw, is probably a deal breaker. The rest of the saw is probably fine. BUT these saws aren't that stable with a complete base, this one with the front cut off, would be even more unstable. It's a heavy saw, and the sheet metal base has to be in good shape to be stable. Long ago, I thought this saw was pretty nice, as it can cut much thicker boards than my 10 inch blade Delta unisaw, with a higher horsepower motor. The original fences on all of these older saws is junk compared to a Biesemeyer, so that would have to be changed. I have TWO of these saws in my boneyard, and I'm sure there's LOTS of parts available. BUT there's BETTER saws to start out with for a project than this one. ALL of these saws are a relative bargain these days.

[Tom Trees]

Looks in OK nick to me... guessing the power feeder holes are probably from that power feeder orientated for other operations.
Does it have a real riving knife?... most American saws don't seem to have, and have splitters instead.
That is probably the most important thing to consider when buying IMO.

If it ends up hassle to go changing the motor, then get a cheap VFD for another hundred.
Good luck
Tom

[Doug McKay]

And when your said and done you now own a 800#lb table saw. When your done it's really hard to push it back it in the corner.......