12" Jointer Helix Head

[Bill Rhodus]

Grizzly has 2 spiral cutterheads to fit a 12" jointer but cannot provide dimensions for me to determine if I can make it fit my machine. I am looking for anyone willing to get major dimensions from the cutterhead in the following machines: Grizzly G0609, G0609X, Jet JJ-12, Oliver 4255, Powermatic P1285, Shop Fox W1744, W1744S, Yorkcraft YC-12J. If I can make the Grizzly work, it would cost about half the cost of a custom Byrd head. Thank you.

[Matt Day]

I find it odd they wouldn’t give you dimensions, especially if it means a sale. Have you tried talking to another CS agent who may be more willing to help?

You might know that the president of Grizzly frequents this forum, Shiraz as well. Maybe he’ll chime in.

[Bill Rhodus]

This came from the reply from Grizzly: "While we are flattered that many other manufactures refer their customers to Grizzly for parts, our goal is to try and have a ready supply for Grizzly brand machines. To that extent, we are unable to measure parts to see if they will fit other brands. Return shipping cost and a 10% restocking fee may apply for returned parts." I can't argue with their focus on supporting their machines. However, if I can make their head work in my machine it would be a benefit to me and a sale for them.

[roger wiegand]

It seems very odd that they don't know the measurements of their parts without having to send someone out with a ruler. They do specify and/or make this stuff right? Or do they just say "I'd like 100 jointers, send me whatever you feel like making today"? It's a little distressing that they can't just look at a drawing and get the size.

[Matt Day]

That’s some odd business practice. Unless they’re loosing money on the cutterhead, why not sell as many as possible?

[Jim Becker]

I think that behind the vendor comment is the unsaid, but very real desire to not take on the responsibility of actively providing a part like that for a machine that they didn't design/make. That could be a support nightmare. I don't find it unusual at all given that their focus is on selling their own machines and other products that they want to provide to the market. That's different than a specialty provider like Byrd who's in the business of making "a thing" for "almost any vendor's machine".

[Peter Christensen]

What machine do you have? Someone may have already done the conversion with a Grizzly cutter head and can walk you through it.

[Bill Rhodus]

The jointer is an American Woodworking 12" with babbit bearings.

[Darcy Warner]

The jointer is an American Woodworking 12" with babbit bearings.

None of those will work. Call hermance, take some real good measurements they ask for and in about 5 weeks you will get a new head. You won't get anywhere trying the route you are thinking.

[Matt Day]

If you want to keep the babbit bearings, you’ll need custom like Darcy says. The Babbits are wider than any modern ball bearing.

You could consider going to pillow block bearings and using an “off the shelf” helical head. But there have been a number of botched conversions so do your homework if you consider this option.

[Bill Rhodus]

thank you. if i have to have the custom head made i will

[Martin Siebert]

I have been looking at several 12" jointers lately. One thing I have found, and this might not matter to you, is that many do not have the same configuration of a Byrd Shelix cutterhead. By that I mean the Byrd has the cutters at an angle so that they shear instead of chisel straight into the wood being joined. Some machines do have the cutters angled, many do not. Powermatic's 12" jointer does not, which is strange because their 20"planer and smaller jointers use the Byrd. None of the Jet machines, planers or jointers have the angled cutters and the Grizzly's as I understand it also does not. If you look on the Steelex website it appears that machine does in fact use angled cutters.
The idea is that these outfits that use straight cutters are Chinese copies and while you will enjoy the ability to "quick" change cutters without a bunch of setup time and they have four sides, they really don't cut quite as good as the Byrd Shelix configuration. They also don't typically use the Byrd inserts which might be a little easier to find at this time. I think anything is better than straight knives, but if I am going to buy a machine with a helical head I want it to be a real helical head especially at the very edge that does the actual work. The price difference in the two and the way they work for the difference is not enough for me to go the lesser cost route.
Now I am sitting on the fence about a 12" PM jointer...that's a lot of money to spend and not get exactly what I want.

Edit: one other thing to think about is that while I haven't bought a Griz in a while...most of the time you cant even get the machine itself, do they even have the cutterhead to sell now and/or how long will you have to wait to get it????

[Matt Day]

I’ve never heard anyone say a Byrd helical head cuts better than any other head (within reason). There are guys here with both Grizzly heads and Byrd who notice no difference. Ive used Hermance and Byrd and see no difference either. Don’t buy all the marketing hype.

[Jim Andrew]

I bought a Grizzly G0609 jointer and put a Byrd head on it, also bought it from Grizzly, and found it will only cut 11 3/4". Should have just gone with the X model, with the straight cutters. No difference in the cut compared to my G0453px planer.

[Martin Siebert]

No difference???? Probably not for most wood. If the Chinese cutter heads are all you can afford then go for it, but if you plane or join hard, highly figured wood that is prone to tear out you absolutely, positively WILL see a difference in the quality of the cut with a Byrd Shelix vs Chinese straight inserts, period, end of story. It's not just the angle of the inserts...Byrd inserts have a radius that helps them cut with even less chance of tear out. I have tried them all and believe me I will not spend money on hype. If their really is no difference in the cheap Chinese cutter heads performance I would not have a problem saving the money. Straight HSS blades will do just fine if dialed in properly, but they wont do it for long. There must be some kind of patent protection...the Chinese copy everything else yet they have not copied the Byrd configuration. Again, not here to argue...if you like the straight Chinese then good, but for my money it will have a real Byrd Shelix.

[David Kumm]

I'll only add that if you want an insert head for a jointer, I'd rather have the inserts more flush with the head vs the perched design of the Byrd. Not a big deal on a planer but more so on a jointer. A babbit replacement will be expensive due to the length needed to be turned down. Dave

[James Coop]

Bill R,
If you tell me the measurements you need, I have a G0634Z w/ 12" spiral cutterhead I'd be happy to take measurements (it is also for sale for anyone interested!)
James

[Bill Rhodus]

Thank you James. I am picking up the jointer this saturday and will post the major dimensions of the head next week. After additional research, it appears that I would have to remove the babits and fabricate a bearing mount for self aligning bearings. I will post developments as they happen.

[Darcy Warner]

Don't hack up the machine just to put some sort of off the shelf head in it. I have owned many jointers, belt drive, direct drive, but one machine that will never leave my shop is my 30" Babbitt bearing American jointer. Its smoother and quieter than any ball bearing machine.

[David Kumm]

There are more great babbitt jointers still in service than there are conversions as well done. Many if not most end up as unloved orphans with less market value than they had before conversion. Dave

[Bill Rhodus]

After digging into this issue it appears very likely i will have to have a head made and will keep the babbit. When I figure thid out I will post progress made.