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View Full Version : What is a "rule of six" breaker box?



Stephen Tashiro
01-23-2019, 6:33 AM
In reading about the dangers of Federal Pacific "Stab-lock" breakers at https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/62320/should-all-federal-pacific-panels-be-replaced , I see the terminology "rule of six" for electrical breaker boxes. What makes the circuit in a breaker box a "rule of six"?

roger wiegand
01-23-2019, 8:29 AM
The "rule of six" refers to how many breakers or throws it takes to disconnect a building from the electrical supply, so if you have more than six breakers in a box at your service entrance there needs to be a disconnect upstream of it, either in the panel or upstream.

Kevin Beitz
01-23-2019, 8:42 AM
I never heard of that rule in Pa.

Lee Schierer
01-23-2019, 8:50 AM
I never heard of that rule in Pa.

How old is your box? I live in NW PA When I upgraded our box 30+ years ago the new box had a main fuse block that would disconnect the entire house and all the breakers in the panel below. The panel was installed by a licensed electrician and inspected.

Frank Pratt
01-23-2019, 9:34 AM
The Federal Stab-lok system is a disaster that never should have seen the light of day. If I had a dollar for every Stab-lok breaker that fell out of place when the panel was opened, I'd have more money than I have now :P And most of those panels will show evidence of arcing where the breaker plugs into the buss.

If I bought a house with a Stab-lok panel, I'd definitely replace it. End Rant.

roger wiegand
01-23-2019, 11:37 AM
I never heard of that rule in Pa.

Section 230.71(A) of the NEC unless PA has opted out of it.

Bob Glenn
01-23-2019, 11:42 AM
I recently upgraded some rental property electrical service. The utility company now required a whole house breaker near the service entrance.

Mike Cutler
01-23-2019, 12:29 PM
I recently upgraded some rental property electrical service. The utility company now required a whole house breaker near the service entrance.

That's a little "odd"? So there is now a separate panel in between the "Main Panel" and the meter face with a single breaker in it?
Does it have to be outside, or inside, and which panel now has the neutral/ground bond in this scenario?
Any" service entrance panel" installed in the last 50+ years, at least, has had the requirement to have a disconnect, or "main breaker" in the service entrance panel, the first panel "from the pole", or in reality, the meter.

Mike Cutler
01-23-2019, 12:47 PM
I never heard of that rule in Pa.

It's there, but as I said above, it has been a very, very, long time since a service entrance panel didn't have a "Main" breaker built into it, or a mechanical disconnect right next to it.
You see some really old wiring in New England, and even the old 40 and 60 amp, four fuse, boxes have a disconnect next to them.
Yep, there are still many houses in New England with 40 and 60 amp service. It's a little scary.

Stan Calow
01-23-2019, 3:36 PM
I just replaced a 1960 100A service panel (the old Pushmatic breakers) because it did not have a main breaker. The inspector who flagged it cited the lack of one main breaker (and indirectly the rule of 6) as the reason for requiring an upgrade. The electricians who replaced it said that adding a main breaker required a new panel, even if nothing wrong with the old Pushmatics.

Bruce Wrenn
01-23-2019, 8:17 PM
In our area, the rule of six only applied to exterior service panels, located adjacent to the meter. Usually the interior panel was fed thru this panel using a 100 amp breaker. Most of the 220 circuits (WH, AC, range, etc) were fed from this panel.

Lee Schierer
01-23-2019, 9:31 PM
In our area, the rule of six only applied to exterior service panels, located adjacent to the meter. Usually the interior panel was fed thru this panel using a 100 amp breaker. Most of the 220 circuits (WH, AC, range, etc) were fed from this panel.

What is your area?

Andrew Seemann
01-23-2019, 11:56 PM
I've only ever run into one of those old six-disconnect-breaker service panels, at my aunts house. It was probably from the 1960s; I think my uncle put it in when they remodeled. He probably replaced a 60A plug-fuse service panel.

Quite the odd duck, I don't remember the brand, something not still made anymore I think. i couldn't wait to get it out. It turned into a nice Cutler-Hammer 100A panel, with a single main disconnect, as the good lord intended.

Andrew Seemann
01-24-2019, 12:05 AM
I just replaced a 1960 100A service panel (the old Pushmatic breakers) because it did not have a main breaker. The inspector who flagged it cited the lack of one main breaker (and indirectly the rule of 6) as the reason for requiring an upgrade. The electricians who replaced it said that adding a main breaker required a new panel, even if nothing wrong with the old Pushmatics.

Not surprising the inspector flagged it and the electrician wouldn't touch it. For some people, the fact that they are Pushmatics is wrong enough on its own, and needs no additional reason to require replacement. I might be one of those people:)

John Goodin
01-24-2019, 1:44 AM
As a home inspector most of the newer stuff I see is a one main breaker as a whole house shut off at the top the dead front of the main service entrance. Then the 240 volt circuits below, including one to a sub panel. The sub panel handles all or almost all the 120 volt circuits. This is not the only way to do it but most common in houses built over the last few decades in the central TX area. Having a panel with just a main shut off might be the least expensive way to upgrade older electric from before the six throw rule.

I think local jurisdictions around here are requiring a single main shut off simply based on their presence when not technically needed. A 200 amp breaker is around a hundred bucks and most houses can be wired without one and still comply with the six throw rule. EX: one 240 volt breaker for the range, two for AC, one for water heater and one for subpanel.

Frank Pratt
01-24-2019, 10:27 AM
Not surprising the inspector flagged it and the electrician wouldn't touch it. For some people, the fact that they are Pushmatics is wrong enough on its own, and needs no additional reason to require replacement. I might be one of those people:)

I might be one too. Fortunately they are very rare around here.

Frank Pratt
01-24-2019, 10:41 AM
This has been an interesting thread for me. Up here in the great white north there is no 'rule of six'. But houses used to have a 60A, 6 circuit panel with no main breaker. If the panel is full & you want to add circuits, you are out of luck because it is not permissible to feed a sub-panel from a service with no main breaker. You have to install a new service panel with a main breaker.

Those panels probably haven't been installed here for about 60 years.

Andrew Seemann
01-24-2019, 3:55 PM
This has been an interesting thread for me. Up here in the great white north there is no 'rule of six'. But houses used to have a 60A, 6 circuit panel with no main breaker. If the panel is full & you want to add circuits, you are out of luck because it is not permissible to feed a sub-panel from a service with no main breaker. You have to install a new service panel with a main breaker.

Those panels probably haven't been installed here for about 60 years.

I remember those old 60A six circuit boxes, with two sets of cartridge blocks and four plug fuses. I think there was some deal back in the day where they gave them out free with electric stoves, when electrics were starting to compete with gas. If you were lucky, they used one of the cartridge blocks as a main, but sometimes they got used for the pump instead. Equally frightening is the old SE cable feeding it and the type R wire with actual rubber and cloth insulation. Try and bend that without it crumbling.

Interesting thread indeed. We covered Pushmatic, Federal Pacific, and 60A service panels. About all that is left to make the Sparkies shudder is knob and tube, 12ga AL wire, 2 prong duplex outlets, knife switches, and ungrounded romex:)

Mike Cutler
01-24-2019, 5:50 PM
Equally frightening is the old SE cable feeding it and the type R wire with actual rubber and cloth insulation. Try and bend that without it crumbling.

Interesting thread indeed. We covered Pushmatic, Federal Pacific, and 60A service panels. About all that is left to make the Sparkies shudder is knob and tube, 12ga AL wire, 2 prong duplex outlets, knife switches, and ungrounded romex:)

Got the knob and tube covered here in New England.
Hopefully it's all gone by now, but in the 80's, yep I'm that old, it was still alive and doing fine.
Got the rest of it up here also.
Basement can get pretty damn scary up here. Dirt floors, dry stacked stone wall foundations, standing water, and fuse boxes. Yeahhhhh Baby!!!!

Lee Schierer
01-24-2019, 9:20 PM
I just watched a show on TV where they found copper plated aluminum wire and it all had to be replaced. I had never heard of copper plated aluminum wire.

John Goodin
01-25-2019, 5:30 PM
It was very limited in use. Like a lots of things on the “reality remodeling tv shows” a total rewire probably was not needed since there are much cheaper fixes.

My favorite was good ole Chip Gaines “Fixer Upper” saying it would cost 1000 dollars to add GFCI outlets to a few outlets on a little house. They always have to have something unexpected on those shows.


I just watched a show on TV where they found copper plated aluminum wire and it all had to be replaced. I had never heard of copper plated aluminum wire.

Stan Calow
01-25-2019, 5:55 PM
". . . saying it would cost 1000 dollars to add GFCI outlets to a few outlets on a little house. . . "

I have had quotes of $250 per outlet to add GFCI, so maybe thats not out of line. Maybe it depends on how quickly you need to done.

Rollie Meyers
01-28-2019, 2:16 AM
[QUOTE=Lee Schierer;2891258]I just watched a show on TV where they found copper plated aluminum wire and it all had to be replaced. I had never heard of copper plated aluminum wire.[/QUOTEt

It's called copper clad aluminum, the ''economy'' of aluminum, with the ability to not have use CO/ALR rated devices, the stuff is not unsafe, I don't care for it, but it was a attempt to clear up some of the problems of aluminum branch circuit wiring, the other change was to go to aluminum alloys which all aluminum conductors used today are. The NEC still allows 10 & 12 AWG branch circuit wiring but nobody makes it anymore, even when copper Romex® prices were stupid expensive nobody dared make it, thank goodness. Wiring devices made for copper or aluminum under 30A are are marked "CO/ALR", 30A and above are marked "AL/CU".

Somewhere I have a photo of a package containing a single pole switch, marked ''For copper or copper clad wire only" .

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08-09-2019, 9:58 AM
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lowell holmes
08-09-2019, 10:33 AM
If your breaker box does not have a master disconnect, I suggest you have an electrician rewire your service.

Michael Weber
08-09-2019, 1:00 PM
A question. In my basement there is a modern sub panel (that feeds another upstairs sub panel) that is fed from an old fuse panel outside by the meter. Naively, I wanted to eliminate my old outside box to improve appearances by using the sub panel as my main by properly connecting the ground/neutral. I found out there has to be an outside disconnect available for emergency personnel use. I'm guessing (thus the question) that even if this outside box is only a disconnect with no main breaker or other fuses that my sub panel in the basement must remain a sub panel with the ground/neutral separated?

Lee Schierer
08-09-2019, 2:34 PM
I found out there has to be an outside disconnect available for emergency personnel use. I'm guessing (thus the question) that even if this outside box is only a disconnect with no main breaker or other fuses that my sub panel in the basement must remain a sub panel with the ground/neutral separated?

Most emergency services will simply pull the meter out of the panel, which will kill all power to the structure.

Andrew Seemann
08-09-2019, 4:26 PM
Most emergency services will simply pull the meter out of the panel, which will kill all power to the structure.

If you have a wire cutter or something similar handy, it takes about 10 seconds to pull a meter. Don't ask why I know that:)

Frank Pratt
08-09-2019, 4:35 PM
I don't understand the thinking in jurisdictions that require an exterior disconnect. If you have one that is accessible from the outside, then you need to be able to lock it on to prevent nuisance disconnection by bad people. Makes no sense & I don't think there are many that require that.

Kev Williams
08-09-2019, 9:18 PM
Was just thinking about my main box just before reading the above, as mine is lockable... :)

And this is interesting reading because I burn thru a crapload of electric power!

Our house, which was built in '66 and my parents bought in '69, and is also home to the 19 various pieces of engraving machinery in my signature, a table saw, radial arm saw, 2 drill presses, 3 grinders, 2 air compressors, 4 dust collector blowers, 2 refrigerators, 2 freezers, 2 ovens, 2 microwaves, 2 coffee pots, electric washer/dryer, central air, refer garage AC, 'swamp' garage AC, 9 usually-on computers, 62 usually on 40w florescent light tubes and a 500 gallon hot tub, -- started out without an outdoor shutoff panel/box. My parents put in central air back in the late 80's (when we had MUCH less machinery) and the installer, noticing we had a business in the basement offered to install a 200 amp main/breaker box next to the meter and run a second feed into the house for a great price. The second feed was connected to what was the 'biz' sub panel, letting the original panel breathe easier.
The hot tub and central air are connected to the outdoor box. I added a subpanel to the garage a few years ago when I needed the space for more machines. Quite a bit of business stuff is still connected to the original house panel, and I've been very careful to avoid overloading any circuits... I guess I'm doing an ok job because in all these years I can remember only 2 breaker trips- once when I overloaded one of my machine's circuits accidentally (big wet-dry vac did the trick), and about a month ago the wife tripped a kitchen breaker when brewing coffee, and microwaving, and heating water in an electric kettle from the same outlet.

our last year's worth of power use--
414129
but, as you can see I've been able to cut it back a bit. ;)

and for what it's worth in the using-breakers-as-light-switches department, every workday for 42 years I've switched off the original subpanel's breakers when shutting down and switched them back on again every morning. None of them have failed...

Lisa Starr
08-10-2019, 6:58 AM
Also in NW PA and have a newer service was installed 6 years ago. It has a large panel integrated with the meter. That panel has two 100 amp breakers and is the one with the grounding. It only has two breakers in it. One feeds a sub in the house and the other feeds my workshop in a separate building. My workshop sub also required grounding, but I can't remember the reason (distance maybe?).

Mike Cutler
08-11-2019, 9:22 AM
Also in NW PA and have a newer service was installed 6 years ago. It has a large panel integrated with the meter. That panel has two 100 amp breakers and is the one with the grounding. It only has two breakers in it. One feeds a sub in the house and the other feeds my workshop in a separate building. My workshop sub also required grounding, but I can't remember the reason (distance maybe?).

It's actually a code requirement to ground the panels at separate buildings.
The reason is to establish ground. I know that you are "carrying ground" back to the main service panel, via the wiring, but the ground reference at both locations will now be the same.
Every single transition point along the distribution route from the 345KV output of the turbine generator, to your light switch, is always referenced somehow or the other to earth ground

Kevin Beitz
08-13-2019, 12:25 AM
In our area the exterior disconnect is what the fire company wants....

I do electrical work. Three years ago I changed out an old
electrical box. The company name was (The Breaker Box)...
It was confusing. Each breaker could provide both 120 or
220 volts. I keep the box just to show other electricians what
it looks like.

Tom Bender
08-16-2019, 5:06 PM
In New England we had 15 amp 240 volt services. You get 4 - 15 amp 120 volt circuits out of it and of course that adds up to more than the service is supposed to provide. I think the theory was that you would rarely load up all 4 circuits and if you did, there being no main fuse, it delivered up to the capacity of the four 15 amp fuses. With very few if any heat generating devices it was enough for lighting. A well pump was challenging.