WiFi in the shop

[Dean Coss]

I have a 30’x40’ insulated metal building for my shop that I put up this past year in the backyard. My shop is probably 100’ or so from my house where my WiFi router is. I just spent about $60 on a Linksys range extender that didnt do any good, so I’m returning it. Without having to dig a trench and run Ethernet cable and listen to the wife carry on for the next month why the yard looks like hell, I would like to hear from someone with a similar setup and how they were able to run their signal wirelessly and not tear up the yard to get WiFi in their shop.

[Yathin Krishnappa]

I have a mesh network (e.g., Orbi and Eero) setup in my house. The distance between the router and the furthest point is more than 100' but I do have satellites in-between to deal with the walls. It could probably work for your case if there's fairly open space between the house and the shop.

[Lee Schierer]

I have a 30’x40’ insulated metal building for my shop that I put up this past year in the backyard.

Your best bet is probably going to be an out door mounted directional receiving antenna to get the signal into your shop. Metal buildings tend to eliminate RF signals. I bet you have weak cell signal inside the building as well.

There is a wifi signal strength app for your phone that will let you see if the signal from the house is getting that far. You may also need an exterior transmitting antenna.

It should be cheaper than running cable with less yard work.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Do a search on you tube for "cantennas.) Build one, add a dongle and a second wireless router in the shop. That was my plan, until I relocated router to window on second floor. You will need some soldering skills.

[Paul F Franklin]

Consider a wifi bridge repeater system, like this one: https://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=WBK&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cse&utm_term=wbk&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2LH9kLGA4AIV4jLTCh3O9QZkEAQYBSAB EgIjK_D_BwE

One end mounts outside your house and connects to your internet router. The other end mounts outside your shop and provides an internet signal that you can then connect to another wifi router in the shop.
The systems are a bit pricey, but provide an excellent solution as long as you have line of site between the two locations. And the signal between the two stations is encrypted so you are protected against most snooping.....

This type of system avoids the problem caused by your metal building since the antennas are both outside your structures.

[glenn bradley]

A couple of short-haul wireless bridges will get you there. We use these at work when fiber optic vaults get disturbed or relocated due to construction. Amazon carries Ubiquity which are not expensive and quite rugged. We have two hops back to back in the SoCal desert that have been running for years.

[John K Jordan]

Dean,

My shop is 250' from the house. The method I used gives a powerful signal and was inexpensive (for me). I ran an underground ethernet cable in conduit and connected a second WiFi router in the shop. It was cheap for me since I dug put the conduit and cable in at the same time I dug the trench. The only cost was the second router, underground Cat-5 cable, and the 1" conduit.

The ethernet cable connects the two routers The second WiFi router is configured with the same SSID and works as an extension of the same network.

JKJ

[Paul Lawrence]

Dean, break down and run the wire! All of these "repeater" devices will increase latency in your network. Wire will likely decrease latency.

Use the WIFI / router inside of your building, but extend the network to your shop via wire. Be sure the shop router is on a different fixed channel. My routers have two operating frequencies.

There isn't really any need to dig a "trench" across your yard. Use a square-end shovel to make room for a 1" electrical conduit. Then run at least two CAT6 cables and a pulling rope. (You'll thank me some day. :D )

[Curt Harms]

Is your shop powered from a panel in the house or a separate panel? If powered from the house, maybe try a power line networking setup. Some reading:

https://computer.howstuffworks.com/power-network.htm

https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/powerline-networking-awesome-technology-explained/

You could run a wifi access point (or old wifi router) if you want wifi in the shop, maybe some sort of microcell if you need better cell phone reception.

I use MoCA in the house, not really a fan of WiFi where it's not needed. If you had coax running from the house to shop, you could use MoCA. If you want to run a new cable maybe run both, CAT 6 and coax.

[David Prochniak]

I had the same situation as you but my shop is about 300 feet from the house and my main router; I ended up using a Ubiquiti Loco M2 installed on the outside of my shop to act as a wireless bridge. I then ran an ethernet cable in to my shop and connected it to an old wireless router I had laying around and configured to broadcast a different network name (SSID). So far I have had 0 issues with this set up other than when a mouse chewed through my ethernet cable due to poor routing of the cable. The Ubiquiti hardware is available on Amazon for $50 and there are quite a few youtube videos and tutorials showing how to set the system up in the configuration you'll need.

[Robert Engel]

Dean, break down and run the wire! All of these "repeater" devices will increase latency in your network. Wire will likely decrease latency.

Use the WIFI / router inside of your building, but extend the network to your shop via wire. Be sure the shop router is on a different fixed channel. My routers have two operating frequencies.

There isn't really any need to dig a "trench" across your yard. Use a square-end shovel to make room for a 1" electrical conduit. Then run at least two CAT6 cables and a pulling rope. (You'll thank me some day. :D )

Totally agree!! That's what I did good for several years until an electric storm this summer fired the router and modem.......

My BIL is a network engineer he recommended against running copper network cable between buildings. Better to use fiberoptic.

We ended up running Cat6 with surge protectors on both ends.

I tried a repeater with horrible results.

[Jim Becker]

I also have a wired Ethernet connection to my shop building and use a mesh network node in the shop for both wired and wireless Internet access. (actually provides phone, too, as we are in a dead spot for cellular signal strength and our iPhones all support voice over WiFI with our carrier) I tried to do it wirelessly at first, but the combination of building materials in our home and my shop just didn't provide reliable service. (I have to have wired Ethernet to the three mesh nodes in the house for the same reason by full disclosure) The Ethernet is an outdoor rated cable that I installed in typical black plastic water line in a shallow trench, but the cable is also rated for direct burial...so a simple slitter could be used to burry it between two structures.

If it's not in the cards to run a cable (100m/300' max, BTW, on copper Ethernet), then directional outdoor antennas are about the only way to do what you need to do.

[Tim M Tuttle]

Your best bet is probably going to be an out door mounted directional receiving antenna to get the signal into your shop. Metal buildings tend to eliminate RF signals. I bet you have weak cell signal inside the building as well.

There is a wifi signal strength app for your phone that will let you see if the signal from the house is getting that far. You may also need an exterior transmitting antenna.

It should be cheaper than running cable with less yard work.

This is the way to go.

[Dave Cav]

I fought with various range extenders for over ten years and two different shops. Nothing was totally satisfactory and mostly it was an exercise in frustration. I eventually went hardwired and don't regret it for a minute.

[Brice Rogers]

Running some Cat6 cable (along with a pull rope) is a good idea.

But, when I read your post "I have a 30’x40’ insulated metal building...[and] is probably 100’ or so from my house where my WiFi router is. I just spent about $60 on a Linksys range extender that didnt do any good, so I’m returning it" it gave me some thoughts that I'll share.

Some thoughts:
1. Your metal building is shielding the signal into your shop.
2. If you have a window in your shop, put the extender by the window with a clear view of your house.
3. If you can, put your router in your house by a window facing your shop.
4. If you need wifi for the purpose of listening to music, looking at Youtube, doing emails, having an extender is unlikely to be an issue that you would notice. If you are doing netflicks, then perhaps that could add a problem.

I have a Ring doorbell and I had to put in an extender to get a good enough signal. But my home wifi was trying to get through four walls and wire-re-enforced stucco. So, I put the extender in the window where it would have a clear "view" of the Ring doorbell.

I have a shop with metal overhead doors that is 50' from my house. I get a useable signal into the workshop but it is not terribly strong. But it works fine for music (Pandora), email and internet searching. But the wifi signal is making it through two stuccoed walls and shielded a bit by aluminum o/h doors and a bunch of metal things in the shop. But my house wireless router is in a room that is closest to my shop. If it were on the other side of the house, it probably wouldn't work.

I have a greenhouse at least 125' from my house (no metal o/h doors or stucco shielding on the GH) and, surprisingly, I have adequate signal to use Pandora).

If you do run conduit and Cat 6, make sure you get the waterproof variety and/or seal the conduit ends with expanding foam window caulk. Conduit in the ground often collects moisture. Water will make non-waterproof ethernet cable have a short life.

[Jim Becker]

Direct burial rated, pre-terminated Ethernet cable is easily available from Amazon, FYI. I put mine in the black water pipe as mentioned, but it "can" go right in the ground.

[John K Jordan]

Direct burial rated, pre-terminated Ethernet cable is easily available from Amazon, FYI. I put mine in the black water pipe as mentioned, but it "can" go right in the ground.

I think someone else mentioned to run two ethernet cables. I did that to have a spare just in case (in conduit). I found a 1000' spool of direct burial cable for cheap and used 1/2 of it.

Dean, if you want to try running the cable (and if I can find the rest of the spool!) you are welcome to some of it, just have to get it to you somehow. I'll be in Greenville on Feb 8 or 9th. I also have the end connectors and a crimper (also somewhere!).

JKJ

[ChrisA Edwards]

I found this on Amzon, $299, claims 150yds

https://www.amazon.com/Extended-Repeater-Extends-Coverage-Location/dp/B076KRTXQ6/ref=asc_df_B076KRTXQ6/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=242167970588&hvpos=1o3&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13388945729735188617&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1026044&hvtargid=pla-791000456312&psc=1

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61vUaQekX0L._SL1000_.jpg

[ChrisA Edwards]

Do a search on YouTube for "Long Range Wifi", lots of solutions.

Here's a site that sells packages that make cure your problem.

https://www.radiolabs.com/products/wireless/o2connect.php

[Bill Space]

I have a house next door that I have been renovating forever it seems like.

It is about 350 feet, maybe 400 feet from my home. My basement shop in the main house is above ground, and has a lot of windows. There are some trees between the houses but not too many.

I have an apple airport wifi router/access point in the basement shop, and a NetGear dual band router/extender in the house next door, sitting in a window on the side of the house facing our home.

I have no problems with wifi connectivity. I can get at least 20 MBPS speeds, maybe more, at the house next door.

It was a simple installation. Works great. Happy camper here. So it is possible to set something up that is functional and not too difficult or expensive. But it still probably cost me $250 for the Apple and NegGear devices (been several years, don't remember exactly. I bought the Apple device refurbished from Apple)

I will try to get the model numbers of the devices I am using. The Apple wifi router is plugged into our verizon router with an Ethernet cable. A cheap one but that was probably another ten bucks or so.

Edit: AirPort Extreme Base Station is what I have in my basement workshop. Apparently available from Apple refurbished for $129 currently...

[Rod Sheridan]

use a mess network node
.

That Jim, is about all I'm capable of when it comes to networking :D

regards, Rod.

[Jim Becker]

That Jim, is about all I'm capable of when it comes to networking :D

regards, Rod.

https://qaf05a.sn.files.1drv.com/y4mQnyco8CbktBfOQPpiq1qCZVv7X0EBzwXZ4huUGN2r4MPsGQ BuRyPsvR02MDS02Y901DWWAzJPc_3e3kVITQXQIqiGz7WZysiK MoFCrOzwHPovUtQUHn7kdGcyRMNfC_WnZzFqtkso3_6BeEZ8kM a1WGQ1zBmgOT5yT2ipk7PNDc7VGxGlnZQ3wGHSIBcO4Ed84OVw YHBTeEjO1uIeD9rfw?width=408&height=479&cropmode=none

[Art Mann]

Somebody mentioned using a power line adapter to make the connection. I used to have a similar situation to the O.P. and tried that. The signal was a little weak but worked okay while just sitting there at the computer. The moment I fired up my table saw, the device went off line and only a power on reset would restore functionality. My conclusion was that large power tools create enough electronic noise to render such devices useless.

[Derek Meyer]

If you can't or don't want to run wire, then use a point-to-point wireless bridge. Ubiquity makes some really good ones, like the LocoM2 and Nanostation NSM5. They are pretty easy to set up and they just work. I've done several installs with them over the years and the only unit that ever failed was one that got taken off its bracket by a crew replacing siding on the building and was left hanging by its cord. It worked for several months, until enough water got into it from rain (running down the cord through the ethernet jack) to fill it about half full and short it out. That it worked for months hanging upside-down is pretty impressive.

Note that for a point-to-point you'll need to buy two units, one for the house and one for the shop. You also need line of sight, as obstacles will block the wireless signal.

[Bill Space]

As a follow-up to my post above here are some details.


The distance between my house and the house I am renovating is about 350 feet. I looked into point to point solutions to get Wi-Fi from my house to the other house and found them to be a bit expensive, so I decided to try something different which works very well for me. As I mentioned above I am using an Apple airport extreme base station in my home, and a Netgear Wi-Fi extender in the house next-door. The Netgear device is an AC 1200 Wi-Fi range extender model EX6200.

I remember reading that the Apple Airport extreme base station is able to focus its signal towards whatever it is linking to. I have no reason to doubt this since I get good connections between these two units mentioned above over 350 feet of distance. I checked my speed today from the house next door and I was getting about 50 Mbps up and down.

I don’t know if I just got lucky, but I’ve been using this system for a couple years now, summer and winter, without any issues. There are a couple trees between the houses but not a Forrest, so the signal always seems to get through. I see Walmart has the Netgear extender for sale at under $100 plus about seven dollars shipping. So it looks like for slightly over $200 one could duplicate what I have working for me.

[Jim Becker]

The one issue with Airport Extreme (and Airport Express) is that Apple is no longer making them and has left the AP/Router business. Apple is currently featuring the Linksys Velop Mesh Networking System for their network offering in the online store. (That's what I happen to use for my network interestingly)

[Bill Space]

The one issue with Airport Extreme (and Airport Express) is that Apple is no longer making them and has left the AP/Router business. Apple is currently featuring the Linksys Velop Mesh Networking System for their network offering in the online store. (That's what I happen to use for my network interestingly)

Jim, that may be but I checked the Apple website yesterday and they are still selling refurbished AirPort Extreme units. Did not look for a new unit. The refurbished one I bought a couple years ago was in as new condition. More than this I do not know...

[Todd Mason-Darnell]

My shop is 300 ft from the house. I used an Engenius wireless Ethernet bridge ($80 on Amazon) on a pole on the side of the shop. It was easy to install and has worked great for the last 3 years.

[Paul Lawrence]

No offense meant, but for a "100'" network run, the only sensible solution is a hardwired network.

Everything else mentioned is going to be either an experiment, a maintenance headache or an overly expensive solution.

[Jim Becker]

Jim, that may be but I checked the Apple website yesterday and they are still selling refurbished AirPort Extreme units. Did not look for a new unit. The refurbished one I bought a couple years ago was in as new condition. More than this I do not know...
I was on the Apple site as I was typing and couldn't find any reference to the Airport products in refurb/clearance or elsewhere. Perhaps I just missed them. That said, they are pretty much abandoning the product line going forward and that would concern me. (I'm an Apple user and Apple fan, just to be clear...but I replaced my Airport products over a year ago with the Velops system and have been getting far better results)

[Bill Space]

I’m with Jim on this. It would be prudent to buy something that is current rather than a discontinued product.

My experience proves that a very reliable Wifi link between two locations 300’ plus apart can be set up without much in the way of exotic equipment. Today the speed was over 80 Mbps. About 30 times what would satisfy me in this case. :eek:

100 feet should be a piece of cake for a WiFi link.

[Jim Becker]

I somewhat agree with you, Bill, that 100 feet shouldn't be an issue, but there are caveats that were already mentioned including line-of-sight through windows or an outdoor antenna because of the nature of building materials and the effect on wireless signals. The higher speed standards that most folks like to use these days also have less distance and far less "material penetration" than the older, but slower standards. it's a game...

[Dan Baginski]

I have one of these in mine. They extend pretty far and it keeps the same wifi name, etc so you don't have to switch between routers. Haven't had an issue with it.

https://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-Nighthawk-Tri-Band-Extender-EX8000/dp/B074F3M2W8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1548373827&sr=8-3&keywords=netgear+mesh+extender

[Mike Cutler]

Interesting topic as I want to accomplish basically the same thing.
One thing I do find interesting is that I can pick up my neighbor's networks, but not mine, inside my garage. Maybe I just need to move the location of the wireless router inside the house.

I also don't want to run an underground cable, and while it may be "cheap" in some areas, it may not be cheap in other areas, if it is supposed to be inspected.
It takes two "holes" to get that cable out of the house and into the building it is desired. Both of those holes have code applications and restrictions that should/need to be considered depending on your geographic area.
In my area the entry into and out of the buildings has to conform to NEC and BOCA codes. It's the conduit code burial requirements, and entrances, that have to conform.
If I want to bury it shallow, it has to come up out of the ground in metal conduit. May not be the same everywhere, but,,,,,,,
I just don't want yet another ugly LB attached to the side of my house.

[Jim Becker]

Mike, for low-voltage communication cables, the zoning/code aspect may be a lot more relaxed. Even in urban areas, it's not uncommon for a provider like a cable company to use a slitter and just "lightly" bury their cable from the box at the street to a structure...about 3-4" deep max...and then send it inside through a simple bored hole that's caulked. This is very different than for electrical power stuff. The cable I mentioned above is cat 5/6 direct burial rated and could be installed in a similar fashion.

[Mike Cutler]

Jim
Yeah, it will be different based on geographical area.
I also asked about just drilling holes, like cable, and was told that if it came up out of the ground, it had to meet the the NEC conduit requirements. It's not worth getting into a fight with the bldg inspector to me. I may need them one day for something important and don't want a "history" with them. Easier to install some type of wireless adapter.
I know all of the data lines we've installed at work over the past few years have also had to meet the NEC requirements for conduit.
Some places may be simple and easy. Others not. I'm apparently in the "not" category.:(

[Brice Rogers]

When I've had a code inspector on site, they haven't been overly vigorous in inspecting every inch of my property. They are focused on the specific permit that I've "pulled". They are a bit myopic IMHO. They aren't wandering all over my property. So, I've run some RG-6 and some phone cable to my workshop in a gray PVC pipe. I've also run some cable to my electric gate, etc. etc.

When I took out a permit for my water heater and then for my solar installation (and one or two other things), the inspector just checked that the water heater was strapped to the wall. I invited him to go up on the roof to check the solar (hot water) and he said he didn't need to. So I spend $300 for a solar permit and he just yanked on the water heater seismic straps? He should have gone up on the roof but probably didn't know what to look for and probably was too lazy to walk up a ladder. So, I have no concern that an inspector is going to wander off and find something I've done. If in the worst-case scenario he found something that he didn't like (like the phone and TV cable to my workshop), I suppose that I could just cut the cable to placate him and then re-pull the cable once he has left.

When I've worked with inspectors, I'm always respectful and never confrontational. I look for mutual solutions. Even when the inspector or the permit person is totally off base, I don't ever let it become personal. I never challenge the inspectors. I find that they are not typically nit-pickers. I suppose that if there was "bad chemistry" that they could be a PITA.

But I wouldn't worry about putting in a pulling el where the cat 6 cable left my house and where it entered my workshop. Personally, I would not direct bury but would put in a 1" gray PVC conduit. I think that if you use the gray PVC (for electrical) where it can be seen, that everyone would be happy. If your area requires galvanized metal, then put that in.

[Curt Harms]

Somebody mentioned using a power line adapter to make the connection. I used to have a similar situation to the O.P. and tried that. The signal was a little weak but worked okay while just sitting there at the computer. The moment I fired up my table saw, the device went off line and only a power on reset would restore functionality. My conclusion was that large power tools create enough electronic noise to render such devices useless.

That's certainly possible Art, I wonder if there's some sort of filter that would help but would it worth the time & $$. There have been efforts to use AC utility lines to carry network signals to save running coax/fiber. It apparently ain't easy due to all the interference. One thing that apparently helps with signal strength is to have all powerline adapters on the same "leg" of the service panel. I recall seeing some sort of bridge that ran between the bus bars to help with network signal strength on both bars but don't recall where I saw it.

[Paul Lawrence]

The OP is missing after the initial post and 37 replies. Sigh.

[John K Jordan]

The OP is missing after the initial post and 37 replies. Sigh.

Hope the absence is not due to accident or illness.