Spraying Dark Colors

[Steve Kohn]

My last 2 projects have required painting very dark colors (one was black, the other was a dark chocolate brown). I have a 4 stage Fuji HVLP unit and gun that I have very successfully sprayed SW ProClassic with in the past. However, SW doesn't tint ProClassic as dark as I needed. So I purchased their recommended paint and thinned it as much as I dared. The results were terrible, with sputtering and an alligator result. I went up to a #5 tip with the same results.

All I can assume is the dark paints have more solids, that my Fuji won't handle?

Any suggestions? Do I need to get an airless sprayer or a pressure feed gun? I already have a 80 gallon compressor so have the air supply to run one if needed. If so, what gun is a good value?

[Jamie Buxton]

Your guess that all dark paints are too thick to HVLP is not true. I've sprayed black General Finishes Enduro pigmented poly with a three-stage Accuspray turbine, unthinned. It worked just fine.

https://generalfinishes.com/wood-finishes-professional/water-based-paints-glazes-and-pigmented-top-coats/enduro-pigmented-black

The good thing about Enduro is that it is intended for spraying, and doesn't have the extra thickeners which house paint includes.

[John TenEyck]

Which SW paint were you trying to spray? Did you measure the viscosity after thinning? Some paints have higher viscosity than others, but color has nothing to do with it. If you could spray SW ProClassic w/o thinning then you should be able to spray other paints, too. Which ProClassic, the waterborne one?

John

[Jim Becker]

SW supposedly can tint ProClassic Acrylic dark IF they have the really deep base in-store...many don't stock it apparently. But I could be wrong about that. That said, I tend to use Target Coatings EM6500 tinted to whatever SW or BM color is desired. It's a little thicker than the clear, but still very sprayable.

[Jamie Buxton]

SW supposedly can tint ProClassic Acrylic dark IF they have the really deep base in-store...many don't stock it apparently. But I could be wrong about that. That said, I tend to use Target Coatings EM6500 tinted to whatever SW or BM color is desired. It's a little thicker than the clear, but still very sprayable.

Jim, how do you get the EM6500 tinted to some specific SW or BM color? Can you just walk it into a BM or SW store, and get them to put their pigments into your can of paint?

[Steve Kohn]

Which SW paint were you trying to spray? Did you measure the viscosity after thinning? Some paints have higher viscosity than others, but color has nothing to do with it. If you could spray SW ProClassic w/o thinning then you should be able to spray other paints, too. Which ProClassic, the waterborne one?

John

My customer, who was providing the paint, was given Emerald Interior Acrylic Latex colored to their desired shade.

[Steve Kohn]

SW supposedly can tint ProClassic Acrylic dark IF they have the really deep base in-store...many don't stock it apparently. But I could be wrong about that. That said, I tend to use Target Coatings EM6500 tinted to whatever SW or BM color is desired. It's a little thicker than the clear, but still very sprayable.

I've checked at 2 different SW retail outlets and both have told me that ProClassic is not available in dark colors.

[Jim Becker]

Jim, how do you get the EM6500 tinted to some specific SW or BM color? Can you just walk it into a BM or SW store, and get them to put their pigments into your can of paint?

When you order the product from Target, you specify the color you want...they mix it before they send the product out to you. You just have to provide the SW or BM color information. IE...Target Coatings does the tinting in-house.

[John TenEyck]

My customer, who was providing the paint, was given Emerald Interior Acrylic Latex colored to their desired shade.

So it seems SW's is playing cute and lists a viscosity (>20.5 cSt, which I'm sure it is) that makes no sense. But their PDS suggests it's thick because they only list an airless sprayer for spraying set up conditions. You need to know the viscosity of the product you want to spray and what your spray system is capable of using without thinning. I know you said you thinned it as much as you dared, but w/o measured data you have no way of knowing if that was enough, the right amount, or too much. Buy a cheap plastic #4 Ford cup for like $6 and use it. Sputtering suggests the viscosity was too high for your sprayer but w/o measured data there's no way for you to know other than by more by guess by gosh.

The fact that you said you could spray ProClassic suggests your sprayer can handle high viscosity products, which certainly is contradictory with your results with the Emerald. ProClassic is as thick as snot at about 500 seconds #4 Ford cup. It is designed for an airless rig, too. However, the PDS lists a tip for fine finishing while the one for Emerald does not, which suggests that Emerald was designed for fine finishing via spraying.

At this point, I'd look for a different product, as others have recommended.

John

[Steve Kohn]

I think I've found a working solution. After checking out various sprayer solutions versus trying a new type of paint I took the recommendation from a JC Licht paint store manager. He was a woodworker who also used a 4 stage HVLP sprayer. He recommended a custom tinted Benjamin Moore product called Advance. It is listed as a Waterborne Interior Alkyd. It sprayed well straight from the can, with one coat coverage. It isn't cheap however at $28 per quart.

[Jim Becker]

Many of us have used BM Advance with reasonably good results. No good finish is "inexpensive"... ;)

[John TenEyck]

Advance is a pretty nice product but takes a long time to dry and nearly forever to cure; weeks. One coat coverage? Not likely unless you spray it very heavy and that's never a good thing. Advance has roughly the same viscosity as ProClassic, so if you could spray that you should be able to spray Advance. BM makes an Extender product that will lower the viscosity and let it flow out thinner. I recommend you get some and try it on one of your samples.

John

[Justin Ludwig]

I sprayed black paint today. It's Stealth conversion varnish from ML Campbell. Thinned 10% flow enhancer #1 and 10% lacquer thinner. Sprayed with 2.2mm tip (equal to a #5) through a FLG4 gravity gun at 18psi. Came out like glass.

[Justin Ludwig]

Many of us have used BM Advance with reasonably good results. No good finish is "inexpensive"... ;)

I used to spray BM ADVANCE but can't wait 30 days for it to cure, nor 16 hours to recoat (and that's if the temp is 70F).

ML Campbell's CV is the same price point, but maybe a bit more at first cause you have to buy a gallon of catalyst (I don't know if they sell quarts).

[Steve Kohn]

Advance is a pretty nice product but takes a long time to dry and nearly forever to cure; weeks. One coat coverage? Not likely unless you spray it very heavy and that's never a good thing. Advance has roughly the same viscosity as ProClassic, so if you could spray that you should be able to spray Advance. BM makes an Extender product that will lower the viscosity and let it flow out thinner. I recommend you get some and try it on one of your samples.

John

The store manager didn't mention the Extender product. I will indeed check into that. Thanks for the input.

[Jim Becker]

I used to spray BM ADVANCE but can't wait 30 days for it to cure, nor 16 hours to recoat (and that's if the temp is 70F).

ML Campbell's CV is the same price point, but maybe a bit more at first cause you have to buy a gallon of catalyst (I don't know if they sell quarts).

I agree with you about the Advance...great finish, but the "timing" is sometimes a frustrating challenge. But most of us can never spray something like the ML Campbell product you talk about for safety reasons, so we really have to come up with the best water borne solution we can as a result.