Shaker door and drawer questions

[David Ruhland]

When making a "shaker Drawer" is it done the same exact way as a Shaker door.... (very short stiles)?

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I have also see a very clean single board option to drawer fronts on shaker cabs...any one have any suggestions on these?

D

[lowell holmes]

You pay your money and take your choice. I favor solid drawer fronts because they will take more abuse.

[Gary Ragatz]

We have white Shaker style cabinets in our kitchen. Doors are very simple rail-and-stile with a flush panel, as in your photo. Drawer fronts are solid, flush with just a round-over on the edges (the type Lowell referred to).

My understanding is that the Shakers went for very simple, functional designs - minimal ornamentation - so my guess would be that solid drawer fronts would be more of a true Shaker style.

[Jim Becker]

For smaller vertical size drawers, I use solid drawer fronts. For larger drawers, such as the two that I would typically put below the top drawer, I personally do a "pseudo frame and panel" door, but it's really a solid piece of ~1/2" high quality plywood with 1/4" thick "rails and stiles" laminated on the fronts. That provides a strong drawer front with the frame and panel look. (I build my high end equestrian tack trunks the same way)

[Paul Girouard]

Top drawer should be solid fronts. IF they are stained grade it looks better if the drawer fronts are grain matched, in most kitchens this is do able , it’s not often you’ll run into a 12’ or 16’ continuous run of top drawers.

Lower drawers , generally at taller and look better in a stile and rail look.
That’s my .02 cents.

[Wayne Lomman]

I have always made up a drawer panel which is basically a door with an extra cross rail centred where each horizontal gap will be. After assembly and sanding, it gets sawn into the separate drawer fronts. This results in fully framed, very robust drawer fronts. It also maintains perfect grain matching if the job is polished timber.

This is the way to do any fielded panel drawer front set. You design and set out the fronts as you want them to appear and then make the drawers to suit the fronts. This is the critical step commonly ignored. The drawer internal can be a bit deeper or shallower and it is not noticed. Oddly sized drawer fronts to suit perfectly equal drawer internals are seen by every one. Cheers

[Warren Lake]

you show painted, I make a drawer front match the door 5 pcs. (only inset) Shows no continuity in design plunking a solid drawer front when you have 5 piece doors though most do it.

[Patrick Walsh]

We do all the above.

That is based on the client telling us what we want be it a architect home owner or designer.

It all really depends what looks best. So far my least favorite look for a top drawer is panneled with stiles as wide as the stiles on the doors bellow and skinny rails. If I’m gonna do the panels drawer I want my stiles and rails both skinny. Maybe not exactly the same dimension but not drastically different.

Slabs have their place but I agree they look cheap unless doing scontemporay slab style full overlay.

I say make a sample of each then you will know for sure. Yeah if you only have one shaper it will take you more time than you like to make the two panneled doors but your gonna live with it for at least 20 years so what’s a few hours.





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you show painted, I make a drawer front match the door 5 pcs. (only inset) Shows no continuity in design plunking a solid drawer front when you have 5 piece doors though most do it.

[Warren Lake]

I do the styles as wide again for continuity and the rails what they need to be to fit the knob. Stuff is on the wide side in the photo, bottom rail on the door shown is wrong.

[Patrick Walsh]

Oh yeah I didn’t excels pthe picture to look at it till it’s now.

Doors look longer than adjacent cabs and bottom rail is a different size. Weird?




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I do the styles as wide again for continuity and the rails what they need to be to fit the knob. Stuff is on the wide side in the photo, bottom rail on the door shown is wrong.

[Martin Wasner]

We do mostly inset, and a lot of square profile.

Typically slab fronts on the top drawer which is almost always a 5" opening, paneled on the bottom two. The only thing we do differently with the 5 piece drawer fronts is glue a scrap of 1/4" material into the back side so the pull/knob isn't squeezing on a gap.

You can do paneled fronts on top, but not shrinking the rail width looks funny to me, and shrinking them looks funny to me too.

There's no real rules. Build whatever looks good to you.

[lowell holmes]

This might help.

https://www.google.com/search?q=shaker+style+tv+cabinet+plans&oq=shaker+style+cabinet+plans&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l2.36327j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[Patrick Walsh]

Martin,

Do you guys use the little floating threaded inserts on the your drawer fronts?

If so how much a pain in the ass is it and how much labor and or additional cost would you say it incurs for the average medium to large project. You know kitchen, a couple l’s, fridge box, large island, pantry, hutch, and 2-3 vanities of various sizes.



We do mostly inset, and a lot of square profile.

Typically slab fronts on the top drawer which is almost always a 5" opening, paneled on the bottom two. The only thing we do differently with the 5 piece drawer fronts is glue a scrap of 1/4" material into the back side so the pull/knob isn't squeezing on a gap.

You can do paneled fronts on top, but not shrinking the rail width looks funny to me, and shrinking them looks funny to me too.

There's no real rules. Build whatever looks good to you.

[Martin Wasner]

Martin,

Do you guys use the little floating threaded inserts on the your drawer fronts?

If so how much a pain in the ass is it and how much labor and or additional cost would you say it incurs for the average medium to large project. You know kitchen, a couple l’s, fridge box, large island, pantry, hutch, and 2-3 vanities of various sizes.

I think I know what you're talking about, and no. We use a couple of tapered shims to position the front in the opening, then bang them with a pin nailer from the back side so they can be screwed on solidly. We rely on the adjustment in the drawer hardware for any adjustment.

[Patrick Walsh]

We do the same but we have a shop we do overflow work for that uses them and has requested we do.

I like the idea of them vrs the fast app screws we use. I think the four screws, one in either corner is pretty ugly.


I think I know what you're talking about, and no. We use a couple of tapered shims to position the front in the opening, then bang them with a pin nailer from the back side so they can be screwed on solidly. We rely on the adjustment in the drawer hardware for any adjustment.

[Mark Bolton]

We always do 5 piece on everything until the panel gets much below an inch. I personally like the look of a 5 piece front with a narrow panel over a slab. We dont do it on shaker much but on cope and stick we will just make the rails narrower on the top drawers to keep them all 5 piece fronts. We do overlay and I just dont personally care for a combination of 5 piece and slab front unless there are some super shallow drawers that simply cant be 5 piece.

[Martin Wasner]

We do the same but we have a shop we do overflow work for that uses them and has requested we do.

I like the idea of them vrs the fast app screws we use. I think the four screws, one in either corner is pretty ugly.

I'd be curious to see them in action. I agree the screws are ugly, but they're bullet proof. We use regular wood screws and pull them in flush with the backside of the front of the drawer box.

I haven't used the Fastcap screws in my shop, but know a guy that does. I don't like the big heads

[Warren Lake]

are you talking about those big plastic insert things that require a huge hole then have a threaded metal insert that moves around in the plastic. Wont use those things. I use threaded inserts and pan head screws with oversize holes. its more time but its for good. A step down would be to oversize holes for four screws into the drawer front with no inserts. My heads are all countersunk so inside the drawer you know they are there but they are not sitting proud.

[J.R. Rutter]

When making a "shaker Drawer" is it done the same exact way as a Shaker door.... (very short stiles)?

I have also see a very clean single board option to drawer fronts on shaker cabs...any one have any suggestions on these?

D

I've done tons of both styles. In the end, I let the customer choose. I will say that it can be a pain to clean the lower rails over time as dirt and grease builds up. I offer a 20 degree (off of the normal 90) bevel inside for people who want the 5-piece look and also want an easier to clean option. A typical rail/stile width for us is 2 1/4" to 2 1/2". I prefer not to go below about a 1 3/4" drawer rail because the stub tenon glue area gets very small.

[Warren Lake]

1 5/8" or could be less, certain amount based on the profile and proportions. I have a tennon and haunch so not a concern.

[Mark Bolton]

I've done tons of both styles. In the end, I let the customer choose. I will say that it can be a pain to clean the lower rails over time as dirt and grease builds up. I offer a 20 degree (off of the normal 90) bevel inside for people who want the 5-piece look and also want an easier to clean option. A typical rail/stile width for us is 2 1/4" to 2 1/2". I prefer not to go below about a 1 3/4" drawer rail because the stub tenon glue area gets very small.

We are 2.375 default on standard doors and drawers, I will go down to 1.5" rails on a drawer front. For us there is still plenty of meat there with a 1.125" tennon on a drawer front as a drawer front in our jobs sees zero abuse. They are pretty much fastened ridiculously through the drawer box, then the handle hardware, and see little to no abuse with regards to use. The front is pretty much like a board by the time it lands on the job. If the door construction is good hanging out in mid air a 6.5x18 drawer front is bullet proof.

I have no clue what a haunch would have to do with a commercial 5 piece drawer front but I can always dream.

[J.R. Rutter]

I'm not doing cabinets, so I guess I always plan for worst case handling by whoever does finally install them to drawer boxes.

[Warren Lake]

fills in the groove in the style for the panel.

[Martin Wasner]

We are 2.375 default on standard doors and drawers, I will go down to 1.5" rails on a drawer front. For us there is still plenty of meat there with a 1.125" tennon on a drawer front as a drawer front in our jobs sees zero abuse. They are pretty much fastened ridiculously through the drawer box, then the handle hardware, and see little to no abuse with regards to use. The front is pretty much like a board by the time it lands on the job. If the door construction is good hanging out in mid air a 6.5x18 drawer front is bullet proof.

I have no clue what a haunch would have to do with a commercial 5 piece drawer front but I can always dream.


Haunching it with a tennon and mortise would make a solid front, but a lot of steps. I'm with you, they just don't see any abuse once mounted. Solid attachment, soft close hardware makes them borderline idiot proof.

Now that I've got the router, I've kicked around getting some door tooling for it and just hogging what I need out of solid to match the doors in smaller drawer fronts Not a perfect solution, but it creates some more options.

What JR is talking about with the bevel is more of a "shaker" style to me than just a square profile.

[Warren Lake]

Martin agree but doing the doors that way already so its not a big deal.