Local paper is really stretching

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

The York Daily Record, ran a front page article today about an "emotional support alligator" https://www.ydr.com/story/opinion/columnists/mike-argento/2019/01/14/emotional-support-alligator-offers-comfort-razor-sharp-teeth/2569655002/


I can see it now. A suspect is getting the pat down, and the officer starts to reach in the pocket, thinking he found a bundle of drugs, Suspect says" that pocket is where I keep Larry, my "emotional support copperhead."

[Lee DeRaud]

Could be worse:
https://www.facebook.com/CollegeHumor/videos/10155733007852807
:)

[Malcolm Schweizer]

This has become a huge problem with airlines. Most of the time people get this certification just to make it easier to transport a pet on an airplane. Where I live, it's become an epidemic. I used to work at a facility that trained drug dogs, police dogs, and search and rescue dogs. I see folks getting on planes with animals that are CLEARLY not professional dogs. One dog was even aggressive towards passengers, and one cat meowed the whole flight. They are starting to crack down on this, but it's still a big problem. It messes things up for the real support animal owners. Yes, there are animals that are, for example, trained to sense when people with PTSD are having stress, or when people with epilepsy are about to have a seizure, and I realize these dogs may not look like the typical support dog, but I can assure you, many of the animals I see are NOT support dogs. I know a professional dog when I see one.

[Brian Henderson]

What people don't know, or don't care about, is that "emotional support animals" only give you the right to keep 1 specific animal in a no-pets apartment. That's it. It doesn't mean you get to drag them into stores, it doesn't mean you get to take them on airplanes, you can keep it in your no-pets apartment, period. And the only way to get an "emotional support animal" is to go to a licensed and legitimate psychiatrist or psychologist and have them write a permit that's good for one year, then you have to go back. The only currently valid "emotional support animals" out there are dogs or miniature horses. So nobody can have an emotional support peacock. It just isn't a legitimate thing.

I hate humanity sometimes.

[Mel Fulks]

A group of good guys on a plane were able to stop some terrorists by using an animal free path.

[Lee Schierer]

According to how the law is written in Pennsylvania a service dog is any dog that is trained to help a person perform a task that would be extremely difficult or impossible for that person to do on their own......so my Bittany which is trained to find game birds is a service dog because for me to find Pheasants on my own is close to impossible.

A few weeks ago we were out for dinner and while we were eating a group of people came in with three very poorly trained dogs of different breeds that were wearing home made dog jackets that said emotional support dog in training. The even fed the dogs from food on the table.

The service dog and emotional support animal laws need to be clarified to eliminate the abuse.

[Myk Rian]

I see folks getting on planes with animals that are CLEARLY not professional dogs. One dog was even aggressive towards passengers, and one cat meowed the whole flight. They are starting to crack down on this, but it's still a big problem. It messes things up for the real support animal owners. Yes, there are animals that are, for example, trained to sense when people with PTSD are having stress, or when people with epilepsy are about to have a seizure, and I realize these dogs may not look like the typical support dog, but I can assure you, many of the animals I see are NOT support dogs. I know a professional dog when I see one.
It doesn't have to be a "professional" dog, or even look like one.
Our son has a dog, "Ruby", that reminds me of a good sized smoked ham. She senses his PTSD symptoms and warns him.

But a Stress Alligator, let alone a Stress Squirrel, is going a bit too far.

[Bill Dufour]

I have seen some very sketchy folks in Home Depot with pit bulls. I think the staff is scared to tell them "no". I fear a child running to pet the doggy and losing a hand. Home depots payments will not give that child back a normal childhood. I have been startled by little rat dogs suddenly barking. from a shopping cart as I walk by. Lucky I did not reflectively hit them. If they had been on the ground I would probably have kicked them in a reflective action.
Bill D.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Who should have to get off the plane when someone has an emotional support cat and a passenger is allergic to cats? Once we were on a flight where there was a cat in a carry on cage, and passenger and cat had to be reseated away from person allergic to cats. Unfortunately the dander is still floating in the air in the cabin. Put your pets in the cargo hole, or leave them home!!!

[Stan Calow]

Some dog trainers will advise people to take their dogs to home depot or lowes to get them used to people, equipment moving around, big metal carts etc. The stores all seem to tolerate it.

[Adam Herman]

I have seen some very sketchy folks in Home Depot with pit bulls. I think the staff is scared to tell them "no". I fear a child running to pet the doggy and losing a hand. Home depots payments will not give that child back a normal childhood. I have been startled by little rat dogs suddenly barking. from a shopping cart as I walk by. Lucky I did not reflectively hit them. If they had been on the ground I would probably have kicked them in a reflective action.
Bill D.

Our dogs go to Home depot sometimes for an outing. our male heeler, Pip, was bit by another dog at home depot and the owner did not even know what happened until he was quickly and bluntly informed by my wife before i could get a word out myself. Pip is a registered Therapy dog, with the requisite training to be around people in medical facilities and public places.

People either steer clear of us or are attracted to our 120 lb Anatolian / Great Pyrenees mix. The staff usually give them treats.

your bias against pits is unfortunate. The anger should be directed at people who have pets and do not treat them with respect / train them.

we also believe that the regulations around service animals need to be tightened.


the

[John Goodin]

The BORGs seemed to be one of the first businesses that allow dogs. Recently I have seen them in grocery stores as well. As a dog lover I have no problem with registered and trained service animals in businesses but just bringing a pet along should have limits. It is only a matter of time before someone will be severely injured or killed in an business by a non-service animal and the negative publicity and lawsuit that will follow may have the corporate lawyers reevaluate this policy or lack thereof.

[Rick Potter]

My daughter spent big bucks to get her Cocker Spaniel trained as a therapy dog. She tutors Dyslexic kids, some of whom are also ADHD. Just having the dog within reach at their feet does a wonderful job of slowing them down so they can learn.

On the other hand...the dog goes nuts every time the doorbell rings. We set him in 'PLACE', but he sits there almost vibrating. Fortunately she teaches in a private room away from that.

[John Ziebron]

When we lived closer to Leader Dogs for the Blind in Rochester, MI my ex and I raised 17 puppies for them. During the year that you have each one we teach them obedience commands and some specialized ones. But more important than that is socialization and environment adaptation. With proper identification (scarf or jacket) we would take them to all kinds of stores and restaurants as well as high traffic and high noise areas for them to get used to it.

Federal laws allow service animals to go anywhere the public is allowed and a few states allow the same for service animals in training. Michigan is not one of them. But during all that time we were only refused entrance to two restaurants.

Dogs for leading the blind must be medium/large so that, with a harness, they can be sized for the person. Large dogs are also used for physically handicapped people so they have the strength and size to perform necessary tasks. But other service dogs, like for a hearing impaired person, can be any breed, any size. And what I think started happening is that as pet dog owners started finding this out they would take their pets to places and pawn them off as a service dog. And, unfortunately, it's not that hard to get fake credentials and jackets for the pet to complete the deceit.

I have heard of numerous people doing this but have never heard of anyone getting hit with a serious violation. I don't know, but it might be that there is no law against it.

Myself, I have a German Shepherd who is welcome and well known (for his good behavior) at the local Home Depot. He is a social butterfly and loves kids. He is also well known at all the local Tractor Supply Company's (his favorite stores because he always knows he gets treats there).

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

Big difference between a business that permits animals and trying to barge into a "no pet" business with a "support" animal. Worse yet, government regulations have the clarity of mud. A few years ago, a wheel chair bound lady had her "service" monkey confiscated by the state wildlife authorities and there was a big brewha over it. She had no state permit, and apparently a federal permit is not required for "service" animals, but the state only exempted permits when there was a federal permit or some such crap. So she was in violation of state law, because she was exempted under federal law. Frankly, for many elderly, a pet is very much a support animal. the health benefits of having a pet are rather well documented. That doesn't mean I think they should be permitted to sit at the table in restaurants. I had a pet great horned owl many decades ago when it was legal here. Igor was great, but the trouble we would have gotten into if we had gone to walmart. When I lived in Miami, I had a pet skunk and took him for walks on a leash. It wasn't my fault the drivers were looking at the skunk and didn't see that traffic stopped. The cop was really nasty about it too. The cop never complained when the bikini clad coeds from the university caused accidents by driver distraction.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Please read this before going any further:

https://www.wideopenpets.com/fake-service-dogs-its-a-real-issue/

Then please read this before going any further:

https://www.wideopenpets.com/clearing-up-the-confusion-surrounding-emotional-service-animals/


Optional - the ADA itself.
https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html




The service dog and emotional support animal laws need to be clarified to eliminate the abuse.They are simple..it's the social media & people that think they know, but, are really just guessing and spreading false or misleading information.


Worse yet, government regulations have the clarity of mud.Not true...

As a landlord & as a member of a professional landlords association - LELA (Lake Erie Landlords Association), we stay very current on federal, state and local laws concerning this subject because - - the fines for violation can and do run into the tens of thousands of dollars for even the smallest violation. One woman was fined $30,000.00 two years ago because she answered a government ADA checker in an incorrect manner.

The law for legitimate service animals is extremely well defined. You are allowed to ask two questions and only two questions:
1.) Is that a service dog?
2.) What specific service does this dog provide.
(note - only dogs are legitimate service animals under the ADA)

The dog must be trained to provide a specific service to a disabled person.

Support animals, therapy animals, etc, do NOT qualify under the ADA. They are NOT permitted into a store, on a plane, in an apartment with a "No Pets" policy.
Only legitimate Service Animals are allowed that.

Prior to the rise of "social media", this was never really a problem. Now, it's become epidemic & the sheer amount of wrong and disinformation is staggering. Not a day goes by that I don't read some clown posting somewhere that all you need to do is put a "Support Animal" jacket on Fido or Fluffy the cat & you can tell a landlord to pound salt.


The association attorney has advised any member of LELA to immediately evict any tenant that tries to claim their "Therapy animal" is exempt from the "No Pets" policy. Several members have done so, charged the violators back rent for having a pet in violation of the lease and billed the violators for the remainder of the lease - if applicable. Cruel? No, not really. These people are making it very difficult for honest & legitimate service animals to function & their charges to find decent housing.


As a P.S. - the above applies to Ohio and the counties of Summit and Lorain and the Ohio cities of Munroe Falls, Cuyahoga Falls, Stow and Lorain.
Check your own state and local laws for what applies there.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

Well sort of and not quite.
Good thing you put in the attorney exception that your post only applies in parts of Ohio. A different ball game in Pennsylvania. No limitation of what constitutes a service or support animal under state law. In fact the definition leaves things wide open for other species despite federal law being limited to dogs and miniature horses. But it is not found under animals, or permits or a normal place. It is included under the Pennsylvania Human Relations Act. And to make matters worse, Filthadelphia and Pittsburgh have enacted their own laws which in some cases are even broader then state law.

Citation: https://www.disabilityrightspa.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/ServiceAnimalsInPublicPlacesFEB2018.pdf also written by an attorney for a state wide disability rights organization.

As it turns out your attorney may be wrong in Ohio as well. This from https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/ohio-laws-on-service-dogs-and-emotional-support-animals.html

However, another provision of Ohio law, in the Administrative Code that interprets the state’s civil rights laws, has a much broader definition of service animals—and this law also applies to public accommodations. Under the Administrative Code, people with disabilities may bring all “animal assistants” into places of public accommodation. An animal assistant is any animal that assists a person with a disability. The examples provided include a hearing dog, a guide dog, and a monkey that retrieves things. Because the definition of disability in the Administrative Code includes both physical and mental impairments, this provision of the law appears to include psychiatric service animals and animals trained to perform other services for those with disabilities.

[Bernie Kopfer]

[QUOTE=Adam Herman;2888657]Our dogs go to Home depot sometimes for an outing. our male heeler, Pip, was bit by another dog at home depot and the owner did not even know what happened until he was quickly and bluntly informed by my wife before i could get a word out myself. Pip is a registered Therapy dog, with the requisite training to be around people in medical facilities and public places.

People either steer clear of us or are attracted to our 120 lb Anatolian / Great Pyrenees mix. The staff usually give them treats.




So are you saying that in order for you to be emotionally capable of shopping at Home Depot you have to have Pip by your side? If that is not the case than taking a dog, particularly a large dog, into public places is quite possibly very inconsiderate of others who are afraid of dogs, are allergic to them, or any other valid reason.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

Well sorta not quite. perhaps in Ohio. Under federal law, the term service animal is limited to dogs, and some very specially trained miniature horses. Under federal law, service animals must be trained to assist with a physical disability. A psychiatric or emotional animal, despite training, isn't covered.

But the law has been widened here. the Pennsylvania Human Relations Act, does not use the term service animal, it protects people's rights to "guide or support animals" with no further definition. Worse yet Filthadelphia and Pittsburgh have enacted their own wider versions of the ADA. I refer you to a memo written by an attorney for the Pa Disability Rights Assn. https://www.disabilityrightspa.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/ServiceAnimalsInPublicPlacesFEB2018.pdf

As I very correctly stated, clear as mud.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

Yes, the PA Disability Rights Assn has this on their web site: The PHRA (Pennsylvania Human Relations Act) does not use the term "service animal," but, "guide orsupport animal." There is no further definition of what this means. On thesurface, it does not appear to be limited to dogs or miniature horses andcould, conceivably, include other types of animals. Also, it is arguable thattherapy animals are "support animals" that may be protected by the PHRA.

[Bill Dufour]

Our dogs go to Home depot sometimes for an outing. our male heeler, Pip, was bit by another dog at home depot and the owner did not even know what happened until he was quickly and bluntly informed by my wife before i could get a word out myself. Pip is a registered Therapy dog, with the requisite training to be around people in medical facilities and public places.

People either steer clear of us or are attracted to our 120 lb Anatolian / Great Pyrenees mix. The staff usually give them treats.

your bias against pits is unfortunate. The anger should be directed at people who have pets and do not treat them with respect / train them.

we also believe that the regulations around service animals need to be tightened.


the

I have been a round a few well beahaved pits but for the most part folks here who have a pittbull know nothing about training a dog, or their children. They tend to be low life scum who are a little scary even without without the dogs. One step up from the local canners.
Bil lD
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[Jason Roehl]

From the 2010 ADA (currently ONLY enforced by lawsuit, FWIW):

Q7. What questions can a covered entity's employees ask to determine if a dog is a service animal?
A. In situations where it is not obvious that the dog is a service animal, staff may ask only two specific questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform? Staff are not allowed to request any documentation for the dog, require that the dog demonstrate its task, or inquire about the nature of the person's disability.



Local and state regulations can be more permissive (or require better access for people with disabilities), but not less. If they are less permissive, they are superseded by the ADA.

[Bill Orbine]

While shopping with my father in the orange big box store a couple weeks ago, we saw a man with a service dog shopping. The dog was playfully grabbing at a new pair of gloves the man had taken off the shelf as they walked thru the aisles. Eventually the dog won possession of the gloves. Later we saw the gloves with the chewed up packaging laying on the floor ....man and dog nowhere to be seen. I didn't know what to think but I knew I wouldn't buy those gloves! That seems ridiculous, but there's is nothing I could do.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

A real service dog would not be permitted to do that. But then again, I see human children riding bicycles down the aisles at Walmart, playing basketball and even racing the handicapped carts. Worse when the parents stand and watch. The local Dollar General, has a problem with a specific group of customers coming into the store and eating food and then returning the open packages to the shelves. They swarm into the store and branch out everywhere and two or three employees can't keep up. The people graze their way through and buy a dollar or two item so they can claim they are legit customers. I saw one, about 16 drink half a bottle of apple juice and put it back on the shelf. As soon as I motioned for the manager, a display mysteriously fell to the floor across the store and the kid bolted out the door. The number of opened and partially emptied food containers in their is amazing. Manager told me they invade her store about twice a month. Hit the others too. Once they got video cameras covering all the aisles, it stopped.

I have taken my dog to TSC infrequently. He has never touched anything on the shelves. I did not have to train him to stay away. he just does. He is so excited by all the new smells and people, I guess grabbing something is just not on his mind. He does love the attention from other people. He also seems to be able to tell the "non dog people" and gives them a wide berth.

[Al Launier]

I must live in a closet because I've not heard of an "emotional support pet"; a service dog yes & I support service dogs 100%.

However, after looking at these examples of abuse & literal interpretations for self advantage, it reminds me that there is no end to the extremes people will go to to take advantage of others.