Router table question. Totally crazy idea?

[Greg Parrish]

Hvent even finished the front and drawers for the miter stand I started even though I’ve used the table a ton the last 6 months. That said, I recently started a major workshop shuffle and re-layout project that involved purging a lot of tools and cabinets as well as moving the position of tools and trading stand alone for combo machines. As I’ve continued the process I’m contemplating taking the top off my router table and fitting it to the end of my small outfeed bench directly behind my table saw.

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To do this I would simply fit the top so that I stand to the side on the black mat to use it. I am thinking I would then take my 30” rail set from my table saw and mount on that side of the table and use the same fence from the table saw as needed by moving it from one side to the other.

I cant easily add a left side router wing to my saw due to motor placement. And the right end of the table has my hammer A3-31 and band saw there. Combining the router table into the saw island would free up another chunk of floor space though and make my small 22x20 shop more open and usable.

The trade off is efficiency but honestly I’m purely a hobby venture with no real time frames to worry about. A switch from one tool to the other should be no more painful than switching from planer to jointer. I already have to combine outfeed table usage as assembly table and sanding table with the festool sander setup.

So, what say you? Foolish idea or worth a try? Any example pictures out there to give me inspiration? Thanks.


(PS: miter saw is new and just sitting there to calibrate and setup. Will be on stand to left of lathe when all said and done)

[Ron Citerone]

My thought is when making moldings, I like to rout the edge of a wide board and then cut it to width on the table saw. and repeat for as much molding as I need by leaving the saw set so all the molding are the exact same width. Unless I am missing something here that would be a problem with this set up????

Ron

[Greg Parrish]

Yes, in that case it would present a problem. Just like a combo jointer/planer, things would have to be done in batches. Not ideal for many but you get used to it I guess. I’m adjusting to that now with the new hammer combo J/P.


My thought is when making moldings, I like to rout the edge of a wide board and then cut it to width on the table saw. and repeat for as much molding as I need by leaving the saw set so all the molding are the exact same width. Unless I am missing something here that would be a problem with this set up????

Ron

[Ron Citerone]

Not to belabor the point, but often I like the molding to be from the same piece for grain match as well as exactly the same width for mitering. Just thinking out loud here.

[Mike Kees]

I say go for it. There is always a way to do what you want,just have to figure it out.

[Greg Parrish]

So here is a follow up question. If I switched to the Incra rail and fence system and added their router table insert, would it be practical to have the router to the right of the saw if I couldn’t stand directly in front of it? Just thinking out loud as it is another possible direction that would combine one fence system for both functions but may be hard unless I compacted down to a setup with shorter rails to the right of the saw and router to the left.


EDIT: wow...... the 52” capacity Incra setup has 92” rails. I wouldn’t have space for that. Ugh.

[Greg Parrish]

And one more crazy thought. As I was pulling my router top apart to do some test fitting, I started to remove the old dewalt planer folding shelf and the thought hit me. Why not mount the router table to this and put a hole in the side of the cabinet so the router motor and dust box swing into the cabinet when closed. Would mean a smaller router table but I’m not running long stock making moulds or trim. I’m using it for smaller pieces. Would this put too much stress on the Jessem Mast-R-Lift II router lift when folded down?

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[Jim Becker]

It can be a very workable solution...for best results just be thoughtful about where you position it in your outfeed surface so that you can still leverage the saw for, say...some ripping work while the router table portion is setup for another operation. "Where" can make a difference. I have that with my own "poor man's shaper" setup with my slide. The router spindle is offset far enough back from the slider wagon and saw cut line that I can still do a lot of the saw cutting that I might typically have to do without tearing down the router setup. Not all situation, but enough that it's workable.

[Greg Parrish]

Think I’m going for it but not sure which position yet. Doing so opens some good, needed space though. The flip up idea is prob not great as it would mean lots of transition. Looking at far side of outfeed or extension tables now. That keeps saw functional. Extension table means moving the drawer out so I’m thinking outfeed


Got the top off and will start toying with placement ideas
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Looking at the cart I thought what a waste of a good cart so let’s see if it could get repurposed. Maybe or maybe not. We will see.
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Not or sure if I’ll use it or not but I do need to square away something for the miter saw so maybe I can convert this and add a folding wing or two. Again, wasn’t the direction I was going but it’s a maybe.
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If if I don’t use it to craft a miter stand cart, it will need to go away to make the move of the router table top actually provide a space benefit. now to figure out where I want to mount the router top.

[Greg Parrish]

UPDATE


Did a total about face somewhat. I’m going to put the router table back together and sell it without the lift. Will give someone a head start towards their own table.

Ordered an Incra TS-LS Combo 4 setup with the 52” rails, router table insert and and one of the clean sweep boxes for underneath. Will need to do a little work to make it fit but shouldn’t be much different than my current setup other than the storage cabinet moves from under the saw to under the outfeed table. May have to monkey with the J/P position a little for the fence center post thing but will see when it gets here.

Will also allow me to sell the Biesemeyer fence with 52” and 32” rails setup. Should help recoup a few more dollars towards compacting the shop footprint.

I had had been thinking about transitioning to a slider but honestly just can’t justify the $6k to $10k cost right now. Maybe one day but for now the 1972 PM66 will continue to fight on with a new fence/rail system. :)


only downside i see is the wait as their website says 8 to 10 weeks. Ugh.

[andy bessette]

I have have been using my router table on one of my Unisaws for decades and cannot think of an instance where I would have wanted it setup differently. The Unifence works equally well for both saw and router, and is precisely repeatable if I need to reset it.

https://i.postimg.cc/ZR0bfb5B/shop-1.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[ChrisA Edwards]

Incra told me the same lead time when I bought the TS-LS a couple of months ago, got mine in about 4 weeks.

Hope it's the same for you

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks guys. Hope it doesn’t take too long but I put the existing stuff back together and will use it as is for now.

Good to hear people liking the saw mounted router setups just fine.

I think the Incra setup should be nice to work with. Maybe a short learning curve but otherwise the videos make it look really nice. I do realize some don’t like the system and prefer the standard biesemeyer or unifence type setups though.

Chris, what saw is yours set up on? Any pics posted?



Incra told me the same lead time when I bought the TS-LS a couple of months ago, got mine in about 4 weeks.

Hope it's the same for you


I have have been using my router table on one of my Unisaws for decades and cannot think of an instance where I would have wanted it setup differently. The Unifence works equally well for both saw and router, and is precisely repeatable if I need to reset it.

[ChrisA Edwards]

Mine is a SawStop PCS 175, 36", just about to be converted to 3HP. I bought the Incra Combo 2 package.

The Incra system was easy to install and tune. I built the router dust collector box. I put a Bosch 1617 in a Jessum MasterLift II router lift, although I swapped out the router lift top plate for the Incra so I could use the Incra clean sweep inserts. They work great.

The infra system has positive alignment stops for both table saw and router use. I just undo 4 knobs, lift and rotate the fence 180 degrees and align it to the stops and clamp. Takes about 30 seconds from sawing to routing use and the LS Positioner makes accuracy repeatable even through these changes.


https://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i452/cedwards874/Woodworking/Incra%20LS-Fence/SawStopIncra1_zpsub0ejje6.jpg



http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i452/cedwards874/Woodworking/Incra%20LS-Fence/SawStopIncra3_zpsxlbklnpt.jpg



http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i452/cedwards874/Woodworking/Incra%20LS-Fence/IncraFence5_zpsjupj9zbu.jpg

http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i452/cedwards874/Woodworking/Incra%20LS-Fence/IncraFence4_zpshk9u8hg1.jpg

This is the door that goes on the front of the router box, held on by magnets
http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i452/cedwards874/Woodworking/Incra%20LS-Fence/IncraFence7_zpsynyznzhu.jpg

http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i452/cedwards874/Woodworking/Incra%20LS-Fence/IncraFence2_zps6ykh0rgx.jpg

http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i452/cedwards874/Woodworking/Incra%20LS-Fence/IncraFence1_zps0lvj2zt3.jpg

[Greg Parrish]

Looks great Chris. Thanks for sharing.

I already have the incra top plate and magnalock clean sweep inserts. They do work great.

Ordered the clean sweep sweep lower box with mine but honestly could have built one too I guess. The prebuilt just seemed the easiest way to slap it together. Will have a dedicated branch with gate on the dust collector tubing for the router lower and upper collection ports so it should work as well as could be.

Other than a true workbench, the last piece of my work shop shuffle after this is a miter stand/cart. I’m still debating between the fastcap pro setup or one of the Rousseau 2875XL carts. Leaning towards the fastcap setup though.

I just finished doing doing a bunch of stuff on my dust tubing and this change will prompt a slight rework of one spot but nothing major. Last section is to extend the tubing over to my lathe and miter saw location and then I’m done and ready to rock and roll on projects instead of shop setup junk.

[Lee Schierer]

My router is mounted in the left side of the out feed table on my table saw. The only problem I have encountered is when I forget to lower the router bit when cutting wide stock where the piece to the left of the blade is wide enough to hit the bit.

[ChrisA Edwards]

Can you post a link to those carts. I made this one to house my DeWalt 735 and 780, but when I bought the A3-31 i gac=ve it away with the DW735.

I'm going to make another miter saw cart, but I want to do it with folding wings on it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT-4JJL8Hro

[Greg Parrish]

Can you post a link to those carts. I made this one to house my DeWalt 735 and 780, but when I bought the A3-31 i gac=ve it away with the DW735.

I'm going to make another miter saw cart, but I want to do it with folding wings on it.



here you go
http://rousseauco.com/model-2875-xl---2875.html

https://www.fastcap.com/product/best-fence


the larger Rousseau seems to be sold out and on back order most places. I’m leaning towards the fastcap setup though.

[ChrisA Edwards]

Thanks, those Fastcap wings might just be the ticket for building a compact miters station.

I bought the Kreg fence system, but the Fastcap might be a better alternative.

[Greg Parrish]

Happened to walk into a store with the fastcap stand on display this week. They had a Best Fence Pro 2 setup in stock in the box sitting on the pallet. I brought it home and plan to get it setup this weekend with the Makita LS1019L. Just need to decide on dust collection for it now. Not sure if I want to use something like a festool CT26 or try to pipe it into my Oneida v3000.



Thanks, those Fastcap wings might just be the ticket for building a compact miters station.

I bought the Kreg fence system, but the Fastcap might be a better alternative.

[Jim Becker]

I'm looking forward to seeing photos of that miter setup, Greg. Keep in mind that a CMS is one of the hardest tools to collect dust from that there is...simply because chips and dust fly everywhere in multiple directions. Some kind of larger hood behind it can help, but you'll still be doing manual cleanup! Nature of the beast... ;)

[Greg Parrish]

Yeah, this I know. My prior battleship miter station had a built in collector with 4” hose to the Oneida and it sprayed chips all over as they bounced off everything. The fine dust was collected though as you could see the cloud go down the drain after each cut. Don’t think the Oneida will be too effective if I reduce it down to a 2” line though.

While understanding there would still be some clean up with this setup i was I was hoping to get closer to the kapex collection, but without the extra $1k the kapex would have cost. This review makes me think that it will be adequate with a festool extractor and 36mm hose. http://toolsinaction.com/makita-ls1019l-miter-saw-review/





I'm looking forward to seeing photos of that miter setup, Greg. Keep in mind that a CMS is one of the hardest tools to collect dust from that there is...simply because chips and dust fly everywhere in multiple directions. Some kind of larger hood behind it can help, but you'll still be doing manual cleanup! Nature of the beast... ;)

[Jim Becker]

I think you can see what I ultimately did at my miter station after years of trying to make a blade guard plus under saw connection work to no avail. The drop is 5" and the pickup from the blade guard just shoots into the hood so it's picked up by the rest of the air flow. It's not pretty, but gets a higher percentage of the stuff than it lets fly elsewhere...

https://rggqzq.sn.files.1drv.com/y4mkKxvHW6yvyyVgVIXyw9umNIjOojFflDX0bLIKuMu2Oe4knH epL49lhamHEWtyFWo4TGLUbQTmZznNgkbO-AT6CEcWBqhBELJRC9yBk9xsNkLBzGl_h8xy_TM2U4WkV1WjiOP p5rXSb3SVbSr7QsK_EOAV0bp1fDzp1V77Ai33esp0Bq4vB7rDC M0Njk__fKfWRQH5qIdmqMY3TD2u065Ww?width=495&height=660&cropmode=none

[Greg Parrish]

Like the space Jim. Looks great and the window is a bonus.

Got the saw mounted but need to relocate the lathe before it can fully spread its wings. Only spot in the shop with clearance is across the big door. I had almost finished my shop reshuffle before getting this miter setup but I just couldn’t stand doing everything on the table saw any longer. Needed a quicker way to break down stock.

Will probably be tomorrow before I get it though as moving this lathe is a big chore. As it sits my lathe is around 1,200 pounds with the ballast box. I have to empty the ballast box and pull the head/tail and banjo off the lathe to get it to a point I can lift it onto furniture dollies to move. Then the feet need to be releveled and box reloaded. Couple hours of work that I don’t enjoy doing. LOL

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[Jim Becker]

Why not just keep it mobile so you have to do less shuffling?

Honestly, while that cantilevered bench setup I have is nice (it was generally a design from a Fine Woodworking article many years ago) The massive amount of space it takes up is starting to make me reconsider removing it and going to a more portable CMS solution since I don't do any "critical" cutting at the CMS anyway. I largely just use it to break down rough stock 80% of the time. Reclaiming the space would help me gain back some flex-space that I somewhat gave up to add the CNC to my shop.

[Greg Parrish]

Well, I want it to be ready to go when I’m ready. Limited shop time means I don’t like a lot of transition and setup. But the design of this makes it easy to pull a wing off when I need to. So it’s somewhat modular in that regard. Just not room to put it in the spot I’m moving the lathe back to as the miter saw is deeper than the lathe and the space doesn’t have room for that needed depth.




Why not just keep it mobile so you have to do less shuffling?

Honestly, while that cantilevered bench setup I have is nice (it was generally a design from a Fine Woodworking article many years ago) The massive amount of space it takes up is starting to make me reconsider removing it and going to a more portable CMS solution since I don't do any "critical" cutting at the CMS anyway. I largely just use it to break down rough stock 80% of the time. Reclaiming the space would help me gain back some flex-space that I somewhat gave up to add the CNC to my shop.

[Greg Parrish]

Back on topic here, the more I watch videos for the Incra saw rail system, the less I think it’s going to fit my shop. The center positioned has to extend so far off the saw that it’s going to present problems with hitting my Hammer A3-31 fence. Also started thinking about difficulties using some jigs with the right side router table, like the Leigh dovetail jig.

Anyway, I can’t put myself through another shop layout shuffle. It’s too nerve racking. Not sure what I’m going to do yet but am rethinking the Incra setup for my space and reached out to them to cancel the order while I think it through.

honestly it has me back looking at sliders with shaper/router built in. Can those units work with a Leigh dovetail router table jig?