Do we all 'HAVE' to have the ideal latest/greatest tool?

[Carl Beckett]

This topic came up on a different thread, that much of the advice in the power tools sections is geared towards very expensive, ideal solutions. Many of the active members in this section are professionals or psuedo professionals. And a lot of posts are about the merits of buying the ideal tool because it saves $ in the long run. (labor saving, never fails, maintenance free, etc)

Yet there are many here that just do not have the budget for such a philosophy. Especially when just starting out and not sure if the hobby will stick, or not sure exactly which aspect of it fits the personal style.

I started out with a borrowed router, three chisels I bought myself. Some clamps. And a circ saw of my fathers. From that I made a very nice bookcase which is still in use to this day (and I was able to get a local chap to run through the planer for me, for $5 - if I helped clean up afterwards). Things grew from there. In very modest increments as my budget allowed.

So I would be interested in hearing what others started with. The general wisdom from this section, at least sometimes, comes across as you cannot do anything unless you start with a large DC system, a slider, a tracksaw, a festool sander, and lots of LN/LV hand planes (oh, and a bandsaw needs to be... well, dont go there). It starts to feel like a sales showroom floor at times, or 'keeping up with the Jones of SMC. I attribute it to the many years of experience and knowledge base that many of you have, sharing generously, so the next person is more efficient in their path to where you got. But most of us will land on a somewhat different path, and besides the journey is part of the overall experience (of life in general!).

Sorry I dont mean to slam all the great advice that is here and hope it isnt coming across this way. It IS great advice, and some very knowledgable people with way more know how that I will ever learn. But to a newcomer just starting out, it might be intimidating and overwhelming, and/or not even the best advice at times, given the financial implications (I have a hard time advising people to spend thousands and thousands of dollars on a 'hobby' - most people just cannot afford it).

PLEASE, I intend this post in the most RESPECTFUL manner possible.

[Ben Zara]

Buy the best you can buy and buy what makes sense.

I don't think anyone here is advocating that everyone should buy a Martin slider :)

[Keith Weber]

There are all kinds of people in this world, and you'll find all kinds of people on here as well. I've seen people come out of the gates with their newly-found hobby of woodworking, and go straight to buying the best of everything they can get. Money is no object. If a Martin slider is the best, they go straight to that. Then, a year and $100,000 later, they lose interest in the hobby and are on to the next thing.

I think the first thing a new woodworker needs to figure out is whether or not they really like woodworking. That takes time, and it there is no need to spend a lot of money to do that. The bottom line is that (at least most times) cheap tools can usually do a job that an expensive ones do. I've made really nice furniture with very basic tools that you can buy at a hardware store that I couldn't make any nicer with the nice tools that I have now. That said, working with good-quality, nice tools makes the job easier and I can do it faster. For example, you can make a perfect, chip-free cut on ply by cutting 1/8" proud with a circular saw with a $7 blade on it, and then use a hand held router with a straight bit, run along a piece of aluminum angle to clean it up to your line. It might take you 10-15 minutes to set up and make that cut. I can do that same cut on my Altendorf in about 10-15 seconds. Exactly same outcome, just a different method of getting there. So, yeah... it's not required to spend a lot of money on expensive tools.

If, after a year or so, the person really decides they love the hobby, they can invest whatever time and money they want into it. They'll have a better idea at this time, too, of what they'll want and/or need.

People spend their money on (and value) different things. Some people will think that spending money on expensive tools is a waste of money, yet they'll not even think twice about trading in their year-old vehicle on the newest model every year. To each his own! Nobody can tell you what to spend your money on - that's up to you to decide. If you want to take in advice from other people to save possible headaches or mistakes, that's your choice as well. No need for anyone to be intimidated or pressured into anything here. If anyone is pushy or judgemental, then they're probably just an idiot. They're here, they're everywhere. We just have to choose to ignore them.

[Frederick Skelly]

Your point is valid Carl. When practical/possible, my approach to problems is to start cheap and get a sense of what is really required. Then I buy better, where it's going to help. That does "waste" some money because I bought the tool twice, but I look at the "waste" as tuition I pay to learn what I really need. Many people disagree with that, but it works for me. (I need to stress I am a hobbyist. The problem is different for someone making their living at this.)

I started with a $100 direct drive tablesaw, a corded electric drill, a circular saw, a corded hand-held saber saw and 4 pipe clamps. I built simple things I needed. I truly hated that tablesaw and replaced it with a used contractor saw with a 52" Biesemeyer fence. Yup, I could have bought a Unisaw etc - they sure are nice. But the cheap direct drive taught me that a good fence and a large table was what mattered most to me, for what I wanted to build. I have never needed or even wanted anything else.

This story goes on and on for me and other tools. It works for me and I have evolved to a toolset that Im happy with. (Now, if I could just say that about sharpening equipment....)

Look forward to reading other peoples' thoughts here.
Fred

[Jerry Wright]

Some build shops, others build projects in whatever shop they have. Each to their own. The tools that I purchased when I needed them are used all the time. Those that I bought because the were neat, sit for long periods of time.😀 Whatever floats your boat.

[Mike Cutler]

Carl
I am neither a professional, nor pseudo professional, I work in a nuclear power plant in Connecticut. I'm just a guy working in his garage.
My "shop" is comprised of an "L" shaped space along the side and back of my garage. Each leg is roughly 19'x9'. My machines are "basic level" machines. I did kind of "splurge" on a 27", dual drum sander, but the rest of the machines do not represent a significant investment. Most were purchased as floor model demo's, or off Craigslist.
I have done some "side work", mostly for coworkers, or friends, but nothing that would even begin to be defined as an "income stream" by any definition.

I do have some nice tools also, but those are tools that were either Christmas presents from my wife, or bought for a purpose specific task. I bought my Festool TS75 to break down a 2" thick padauk slab that was 17' long and 34"-36" wide. I needed the depth of cut afforded by the TS75. That slab was literally worked on a car carrier.
I have a Festool OF2200 that was purchased to router holes in that same padauk slab, that were killing my hands and large Porter Cable router. the OF2200 took the same bit and the work went effortlessly.
I have an assortment of LN planes and chisels, but I have an equal assortment of $5.00-$35.00 dollar Stanley "Frankenplanes", and odd 750's. There is no difference in the end result.
My DC system has been a combination of a 20 year old Jet DC-1100, 4" flexible hose,and two vacuums. The Jet sits outside the shop when in use. Don't underestimate the value of a $20.00 box fan from Walmart either. ;)
It took probably 20+ years to accumulate what I have.

To be truthful, I am not self taught. I spent 6 years in wood shop in Jr. High and High School. I spent two years in a cabinet shop getting "Vo Tech" credits towards graduation while in high school. After high school and during college, 2 years, I worked part time with a company that specialized in circular staircase work. Point being, I knew my way around a shop before I bought my first machine at home. I never had the learning curve that many people have trying to get into wood working because of school. I am extremely fortunate in this regard. If I have any advantage, it's the formal education I have, not any machine or tool I ever bought.
In truth, I got back into wood working for two reasons;
To build my own furniture, because I hate the Wegner inspired "euro-look" that permeated throughout the furniture business.
To work on my own New England house. Which is non standard, in every dimension, and every way possible.
To be conceited, I do good work. Work that I'm proud of, and not afraid to show people.

I am a big advocate of Craigslist to purchase machines. There are a lot of good deals if a person is willing to wait, and willing to drive a couple hundred miles. You can save a lot of $$$$ this way.

It takes a willingness to learn, patience and developed skill to be successful in this craft. Not fancy machines or tools.

One place I would caution you is with respect to the dust collection. A person only has a few options. One is to spend the money to filter the air and return it to the same environment, or two is to exhaust it outside the occupied space. I chose the latter. Some will say it's a waste of money, and energy, which it is, but $2000-$3000.00 dollars, the cost of a DC system, can supplement an electric bill for many, many years.

A person does not need the newest, fancy, anodized red, whizzbang jig or tool. Any flea market hand plane can perform exactly like any LN, or LV plane, as long as all of it's parts are there and the person is willing to invest some time.

BTW
I have more money in bicycles hanging from the pipes in my basement than I will ever have in wood working machinery, or tools. Each person is different.;)

[ray grundhoefer]

I started woodworking as a teenager with a 200 dollar craftsman radial arm saw, router and sabre saw . Now I am getting close to retirement and have a nice collection of tools. Pretty much all of them are old deltas or powermatic although there are a few grizzlys also. When it comes to the latest and greatest take woodpeckers for example, some their stuff I really like some of it is to gimmicky and expensive.
That being said I have learned over the years that sometimes you should wait until you can afford what you really want rather than settling for what I can afford. ( Like they say then you only cry once)

[Prashun Patel]

Usually you get what you pay for. Better tools are expensive for a reason. Rehabbed tools require some expertise and effort which is also a cost.

That has never meant that if you can’t afford the best violin you can’t make great music. This is an extrapolation that nobody ever intends.

[Stan Calow]

The best tool to buy is not the most expensive (even if it performs the best), its the best value for you. That is, you have to judge how much you're going to use it and for what, to determine whether it is worth it to you. People are not very good about judging value. I am just a homeowner/hobbyist, who started out with inherited low end tools, gradually replacing them as they failed. I have some good quality hand tools, and some mid-range power tools, many bought at garage/estate sales. I know that Festool tools, for example, always perform great, but I know I won't use them enough to justify the expense. So I have a Craftsman cordless drill because it was on sale cheap, a used Freud biscuit joiner instead of a Domino, and a crappy table saw instead of a Unisaw, because I know I wont put in a lot of hours on it. No $200 coping saws either.

[Ron Citerone]

I think you are in some ways right and some ways wrong. You need to consider the context of the thread. If the Original Poster is asking about setting up a professional shop then the answers tend to lean toward more expensive solutions. There are people in every hobby that have lots of money or will even borrow lots of money to have the "best" product out there. If they are fortunate to have that kind of cash and want to spend it that way, it's there choice.

Where I think you are wrong is people always suggest craig's list here for tools, machines, and lumber too. Also if someone asked how to tune up an old plane or chisel or power tool they would get tons of help that would be low dollar solutions from people who want to help,and understand that a lot ot people, especially young people are watching every penny.

This is a good forum and if you word your post so that people know you are watching your finances, you will get the answers you need. IMHO

[Van Huskey]

The answer to the essentially rhetorical question contained in the title is an emphatic NO. This is an issue that is pervasive in hobby forums or for the hobbyists within mixed forums like SMC. I say hobby forums since professionals have a completely different set of criteria and it mainly revolves around will this tool/machine make me money, because in the professional world a tool either makes money or costs money. For the hobbyists the criteria is much different and usually varies a lot from person to person, for the hobbyist value is very subjective.

I am a member of multiple hobby forums and within them you see vastly different budgets and commitments to the hobby. Two that leap to mind are home theater and watch forums. There are people on the HT forum that have less than a thousand dollars in their systems and some that have more than the cost of the average US home tied up in their home theater, the same with watches, some guys have collections that eclipse 1 million and some that collect inexpensive Chinese, Russian and Japanese watches and may only have two or three hundred bucks in their collection. The key to all this is OP's are pretty much required to give a budget when they ask for buying recommendations.

A lot of people here have gone through a long arc with tools/machines and have insight at many different budget levels but met with a question about what is the "best" it is unlikely the answer will be a Harbor Freight tool without more information. I often respond to threads with nothing more than prodding for a budget and if the OP never gives one or it is one that I don't have enough experience with I won't respond. There is very little good (and possibly harm done) when we suggest a pre-built router table, high end lift and PC or Milwaukee 3+hp router when the person has a $150 budget to buy in. However, I do think it is prudent to query about what sort of dust collection someone has before they spend thousands on stationary machines.

The reality is people have very varied budgets, experience and needs. The more the original posters frame their budget, experience (when applicable) along with their wants/needs the more on point the responses will be.

While I started woodworking in my father's and uncle's shop when I was a kid my real foray into woodworking was during law school. I bought a used Craftsman RAS as my first "machine" and I have been upgrading my tools and tooling for the past three decades. I remember vividly working on material lists and new tool lists for each new project. At the time my budget was very tight and I would go through each operation from the first cut to the last step of finishing to ensure I had every item I needed to accomplish the task but no more. During those years I would add just enough clamps to handle the most complex glue up for the piece I was making and it forced me to do one glue up at a time often taking a week to get all the parts connected together. At that time if you had ask me about my woodworking tool dreams it would have been simply a dedicated space so I didn't have to move everything in and out of the laundry room and work on the patio along with a table saw (any table saw) and enough clamps to glue up furniture in one go. Today my dreams are a significantly different and it all comes back to budget and commitment.

One thing I like about SMC is the ability to get advice on accomplishing a task with the bare minimum of tools as well as get a laundry list of high-end machines and tooling if you want to have the ability to do the task a thousand times quickly and with production level efficiency and precision whether you ever plan to use the capacity or not. If someone asks a question here and leads with their budget they will likely get good advice within their budget but they will probably also get good options about how to do something with what they may already have and/or how to do it quicker, easier or better with an increase in the budget. The key to peaceful coexistence is being accepting of others budgets whether they are 1/10 or ten times your own.

[Dave Richards]

Someone asked me the other day if I enjoy going to woodworking stores and I realized that I don't have any interest in that at all. And those woodworking shows aren't worth the entry fee and parking hassles. I have all the tools I need and probably more.

[James Pallas]

Carl, I use an old criteria for tool purchases be it hand or power. Time, money, aggravations. When the aggravations outweigh the time and money I usually find a way to get what I truly need. I don’t need a sliding table saw at present because aggravations have not set in. Could be they never will.:)
Jim

[Edwin Santos]

Very good topic. A few random thoughts provoked by your post (these are the thoughts that go through my head when I start feeling influenced by the gear talk you're describing):

Pick your aspiration. Do you intend to be a woodworker or a tool acquirer, or both? Even the best tools don't come with skills built in. So if one's goal is to become a woodworker, assembling a shop full of tools does not automatically make them one.

The greatest woodworking masters were not known for their particular tools, they were known for their skills. Maloof, Krenov, Nakashima, Esherick were not remembered for the brand of table saw or band saw they owned.

Buy the best tools you can afford, but keep them in pace with your budget, your skills, and your intentions. A well made, well designed, high quality tool will be a pleasure to use and generally accelerate your woodworking. A low quality tool will generally become some form of obstacle, usually surmountable, but still a test of patience. Your time is a valuable factor to consider too.

I try to picture an equilateral triangle. One side is my budget, one side is my tools, one side is my skills. I am always trying to keep them equal. For the person genuinely interested in the craft of woodworking, I am a big proponent of education, even weekend workshops. In my experience, I have always left with more skills then when I arrived. In fact in some ways my existing tools became new to me because I had learned new ways to unlock their potential.
For myself, looking at 2019 and my own triangle, I think I'm going to lay off on tool purchasing for a while and try to focus more on projects, skills, and technique development.

It's way easier to spend money and buy tools than to actually become a talented woodworker. The latter takes time, patience, effort and practice. The former usually requires just pressing a button. As human beings we're all wired to take the path of least resistance. Something to be aware of.

Beware of listening to a group of race car drivers talking about high performance race cars. Before long you can find yourself longing for a race car when it's never going to see a track, because you mainly commute to work and maybe drive to the local store and back.
If you're in the racing business, that's a different story. If you're planning on undertaking a career in racing, that's a different story too. And if you're just interested in being part of a racing tribe, then that's yet a third story.

Lastly, it's your money. If a particular splurge tool gives you pleasure, even if its a stretch to justify it, I say go for it. That was my excuse to myself when I bought a Lamello biscuit joiner.....

So in summary, there's no right or wrong answer to the topic you've raised. I just think it's good to have one's eyes open and make your decisions accordingly. If you're asking advice from others on the forum, it's a good idea to be specific about context and goals, so the advice you get back is somewhat tailored to your situation.

[Edwin Santos]

That has never meant that if you can’t afford the best violin you can’t make great music.

And in the alternative, even if you buy the very best violin, it will not guarantee that you can make or play great music or any music for that matter.

[Derek Cohen]

Carl, I suspect you are referring to my post about a super slider.

I began posting on this forum about a year ago. It is not that I had just then discovered the power tool forum; I'm simply an amateur enjoying building furniture predominantly with hand tools. I have owned and used power tools and machinery for over 30 years, however 20 years or so ago I caught the hand tool bug, and this took me back to the roots of woodworking. If it can be done with a hand tool, then that is the way I go. In recent years I have upgraded my machines, because the ones they replaced were pretty basic and I wanted something that performed more reliably. However they, like my years of hand tool work, have made me aware of how few and how basic the tools need to be to do good work. I have posted many furniture builds where I have only, or predominantly used, a few hand tools. In the last few years I have been selling off or giving away tools to pare down to the essentials. It is quite liberating.

This forum is quite different from the hand tools forum. The hand tools forum is 99% amateur. That makes sense because I think that one needs to be very skilled, very fit, and ever so mad to work professionally with just hand tools ... unless you are building furniture such as Windsor chairs. Machinery makes sense otherwise.

The question is what percentage of the power tool forum are amateur? I suspect that it is about half. I asked the question before how the super sliders and monster jointers, etc make a difference. Well, the answers stated that they do save a lot of time, but I suspect is that this statement is that it is so in areas where parts are mass produced. I do not see how these super machines would make much difference to a single, or small team, of furniture makers building one-off pieces. Building one-off pieces is more typical of what amateurs also do. Further, I know many professional furniture makers who have managed with rather ho-hum equipment. By extrapolation, then, what role do these super machines play for amateurs?

Suggesting that there is a limit to the machines that are "good enough" for amateurs is a really daft statement. Human nature being what it is indicates that there will be those that buy the best there is, those that buy the best they can afford, and those that dream of buying something to get started. The long-and-short of it is that my message is for the latter groups, especially those who are just interested in building and joined this forum: you do not need expensive tool or machines to do excellent work. You need passion, and then you need perseverance, because at the end you will develop skills. Great tools are wonderful (I love them), but they are not necessary.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Ken Kortge]

And in the alternative, even if you buy the very best violin, it will not guarantee that you can make or play great music or any music for that matter.

I've very long thought that the same thing applies to photography. You need to invest to ensure some level of output quality, but beyond that it comes down to passion, hard work, and talent.

[Ron Citerone]

Very good topic. A few random thoughts provoked by your post (these are the thoughts that go through my head when I start feeling influenced by the gear talk you're describing):



I try to picture an equilateral triangle. One side is my budget, one side is my tools, one side is my skills. I am always trying to keep them equal. For the person genuinely interested in the craft of woodworking, I am a big proponent of education, even weekend workshops. In my experience, I have always left with more skills then when I arrived. In fact in some ways my existing tools became new to me because I had learned new ways to unlock their potential. "

Yes! And for those on a tight budget there is so much information that is available for free (internet) or almost free (used books on line). I bought a block plane as one of my first tools 40 years ago and used it occasionaly. 10 years ago I learned how to "Properly" tune and sharpen one and it opened up a whole new confidence and respect for the use of one. I use it way more now.

[Jim Becker]

My thoughts. Most of this is how I've approached this since my first early purchases that ultimately cost me a lot more than the initial cost:



Buying tools optimally needs to be treated like an investment..."trading" adds cost and "cheap tools" most often end up costing more than buying quality the first time. That doesn't mean someone has to buy high-end. It does mean "do your research" and buy the best you can afford for the work you anticipate you will be doing plus a little more
There is merit in choosing a good used machine when you can get "more machine" and have the time and willingness to recondition it if necessary to bring it back to like-new performance
There is no such thing as "too much tool"...within reason. More capacity and capability isn't a liability. Not enough capacity and capability makes you spend more money sooner than you might prefer. That's not to say you should use a Sherman Tank to mow your lawn! Be realistic and keep in mind that you can easily make small things with larger tools but it can be very difficult to make large things efficiently and safely with small tools
Your tool choices should fit and support your workflow preferences for the projects you like to make or anticipate you will like to make
Mobility and flexibility is your friend when you are not endowed with huge expanses of space and it helps alleviate the contention between buying small things instead of what you really want/need to do the job well and safely
Along the same lines...be open minded. There are tool choices today that didn't exist in the same way a decade ago. Examples: Track Saws, joinery systems like Domino, J/P combos with bigger capacities in compact space, etc. Maybe something "less traditional" will work better for you "instead" of the same-old-same-old
There's nothing wrong with "one time" inexpensive tool choices if you truly feel it's not something you're going to use long-term
It often makes sense to buy less expensive tooling (bits/blades) initially and then replace individual items with "the good stuff" once you determine what you really use often. But don't buy huge sets of things. Keep it targeted so you don't have a lot of things that just sit around, take up space and never get used. Stick with "basic" assortments of anything you buy as assortments
Don't compromise and buy something of lesser quality or capability when you know you need something better or more capable...it's better to wait an extra month or three to acquire more funds to get what you really want and need than to buy something that will not actually meet your ongoing needs
Take advantage of sales and other formats of discounts when you can. Almost all of my big machines had "show discounts" or other incentives which reduced my cost in a meaningful way. This does take planning and patience, but it's very much in line with the previous bullet, too


Nowhere here did I say that you have to have the latest/greatest gear. It all boils down to making informed choices that don't cost you money multiple times. It doesn't matter if this is an avocation or a vocation, either...the same applies across the board. There's a reason that my signature has featured a particular statement for many years now...and it started with experience.

[glenn bradley]

Usually you get what you pay for. Better tools are expensive for a reason. Rehabbed tools require some expertise and effort which is also a cost.

That has never meant that if you can’t afford the best violin you can’t make great music. This is an extrapolation that nobody ever intends.


Buy the best you can buy and buy what makes sense.

I don't think anyone here is advocating that everyone should buy a Martin slider :)

I'm definitely in this camp. Ideally, folks tend to recommend what they have experience with and hove found to be the better way of doing something. Not quite as ideal are those who recommend things they do not have experience with but, perceive as what they think that they would want. Way down the scale are folks who respond basing their response on themselves and completely ignoring the OP's original query.

The last example comes in forms at both ends of the spectrum. One responder who ignores that the OP states that they have only 120v service available will recommend some flagship machine that will not operate in the OP's shop. Another may poo-poo the spending of copious amounts of dough on something they feel a flea-market find and a little Evap-o-Rust will handle.

The forum (like the internet) is a source of lots of information. Much of this information is not regulated and can either be poorly vetted or not sanity-checked at all. This does not make it of low value. It is our job to work through this volume of free data and glean the parts that apply or make sense for us. Read-on McDuff! :)

[Frederick Skelly]

The best tool to buy is not the most expensive (even if it performs the best), its the best value for you. That is, you have to judge how much you're going to use it and for what, to determine whether it is worth it to you. ....... No $200 coping saws either.

This is a really important point. I don't think I'd get enough use from the Festool Router Table I slobber over to make it worth the money - to me.

I did buy that $125 fret saw though. But I did that after trying a couple cheaper tools, tuning them per the blogs and videos, and still not getting what I needed from them. For me, that dog gone KC fretsaw was worth every dime.

[Van Huskey]

The greatest woodworking masters were not known for their particular tools, they were known for their skills. Maloof, Krenov, Nakashima, Esherick were not remembered for the brand of table saw or band saw they owned.



Ha, that depends on how twisted you are. One of the first things that comes to my mind when someone mentions Maloof is him standing in front of an Agazzani bandsaw roughing out chair parts...

[Brian Holcombe]

Personal progress is what’s important and makes you feel good about walking into the workshop. That can be a new tool or a new way to use an old tool, or a restored tool or a new approach to technique. Anything really that improves your work or attitude toward your work in anyway that you define it.

Consider the fact that other people having tools that you don’t have and sharing about them is incredibly helpful
to you. If you call a company you get a sales pitch, if you post here you get a user’s direct input and in some cases a professional user’s input.

In the past it was typically the case that certain communities developed a craft or technique very well because for one reason or another a lot of competition cropped up in one area and over decades the information was shared within the community. That happens here incredibly rapidly and the information is accessible with a quick search.

[Mike Cutler]

Where I think you are wrong is people always suggest craig's list here for tools, machines, and lumber too. Also if someone asked how to tune up an old plane or chisel or power tool they would get tons of help that would be low dollar solutions from people who want to help,and understand that a lot ot people, especially young people are watching every penny.

This is a good forum and if you word your post so that people know you are watching your finances, you will get the answers you need. IMHO

Ron
I'm guilty of suggesting CL for machines, not so much tools, and I should qualify that suggestion more.
If you have the mechanical aptitude and the requisite tools, a person can buy some amazing "vintage iron", or higher end machines that need some level of refurbishment. If a person does not, don't buy them. It's a waste of their time and money, unless they want to learn.
More what I am suggesting is newer machines that can still be purchased. Machines that are still supported. For every machine on sale currently in a Home Depot, or Lowes, there are a 1/2dozen of the same for sale used. It's a good way to "test the waters" so to speak.

[Osvaldo Cristo]

This topic came up on a different thread, that much of the advice in the power tools sections is geared towards very expensive, ideal solutions. Many of the active members in this section are professionals or psuedo professionals. And a lot of posts are about the merits of buying the ideal tool because it saves $ in the long run. (labor saving, never fails, maintenance free, etc)

[...]

PLEASE, I intend this post in the most RESPECTFUL manner possible.

It is the same for virtually all activities that can be either a profession or an hobby. I have experience with Photography and Music. The same questioning raises from time to time in all groups...

I divided woodworkers in two categories, professional and amateur. Professionals have his/her bread and butter from woodworking so the most important thing in a tool decision would be ROI (return of investment) - note I wrote "would be" as some of them are drived (or divided) by passion also.

Amateurs are a complete different class of woodworkers. They bring bread and butter to home with a different activity than woodworking. As name suggests they "love" woodworking for some reason and are ready to put his/her spare money and time on that. Note the ROI isn't the main criterion for amateurs although sometimes they try to deceive themselves with some kind of overmanipulated ROI estimation. Some amateurs are drived by final results and will looking for tools as, well, tool, and are concentrated on final result. Other amateurs are fascinated with the making process, usually they really appreciate the wood handling and to see the transformation process. When the piece is finished they will donate it and in same extreme cases dump it. Other amateurs appreciate tools, something Freudian, I guess - either electric or manual tools. They love to touch the tools and dream with future projects usually never will come. Others will have focus on different aspects on woodworking or, more frequently, a combination of factors with different weights.

Bottom line is people, mainly amateurs (like myself) can have very different reasons to ship into woodworking and probably very different from yours (or mine). All of them are valid as they are using their own money and time... and, above all, having fun!

[michael langman]

The nice thing about SMC and other sites on the web is the diversity in the people who frequent these sites. Thus we are taught many different perspectives on how to accomplish the task at hand. In the end we are all different individuals with different ideas and backgrounds, and only we can determine what is and is not important to us in what we do, and how we do it.

[Charles P. Wright]

I think it should totally depend on your budget and commitment. One thing that I think is true is that quantity is a quality all of it's own. Having the right tool for the job helps, even if it isn't the best in class.

I started off woodworking after I bought a house about 12 years ago. The first home project I did with a bench top table saw borrowed from my father. I did that once, and then upgraded to a Ridgid contractor saw. I added a bunch of fairly inexpensive hobby level tools (craftsman router, table, 9" benchtop bandsaw, 1 hp bagged dust collector, 5" dewalt ROS etc.). I was lucky in that I was able to get a few of my tools like a DW735 and Ridgid 6" jointer when Home Depot was clearing out their floor models; which allowed me to have a fairly complete shop without a huge investment. I didn't really use the jointer for about a year or two after I bought it [I was committed to the hobby at that point], because I was still buying mostly surfaced lumber; but when I built my kitchen it was hugely important to have the jointer and planer available to surface the lumber; now I use mostly rough lumber.

I've now got a Sawstop 3HP, MM16, and FS41; and a bunch of quality portable tools. I would never suggest someone buys a $7000 1000lb. piece of equipment for a hobby they are just starting out in, but at this point it is what is right for me.

[Jim Riseborough]

It all goes around. I just sharpened up a older off brand plane and its cuts as good as my Lie Nielson for the most part.

I would love to have a Festool Domino tool, but settled on the Jessem dowel jig. So far its working fine. in the end it will provide the same connection really.

[Mike Kees]

My road started with a makita router and a Craftsman t.s.Four pipe clamps and four chisels and a jack plane. I added a Delta 6 jointer and a 12'' portable planer next. A few years later it was a drill press then eventually a band saw. I bought things as funds allowed ,which was slooow. I discovered used tools were the same stuff but way cheaper. I am a carpenter so use my stuff to make money as well for myself.I just purchased a shaper yesterday and figured out that I have a Minimax T50 shaper ,Felder edgebander, Felder k700s slider,a Centauro 600 bandsaw,and a Paolini 16'' jointer for just under 20k. All used ,several in new condition,there is no way I could afford this stuff new. For me I have also figured out that it is easier to 'erase' mistakes and resell to recoup or even make money when one buys used. I have bought and sold and horsetraded my way to this shop ,I am done buying . Pure pleasure working in my shop,every machine I turn on makes me smile now. When I remember some of the things that have been replaced,there was more joy seeing them go than using them. Mike.

[Jim Becker]

I will add the thought I expressed in the other thread, too...there is a lot to learn from posts about all kinds and levels of gear. Even if one doesn't aspire to, say...a big slider...learning about these tools including how they work and what they can do isn't harmful in any way. Learning about what the production shop pros care about isn't harmful in any way. Learning about what floats a solitary "pro" woodworker's boat is not harmful in any way. Learning about what more economical tools can and cannot do isn't harmful in any way. That's what's great about forum sites like SMC...the shear diversity of people who participate is amazing and there is something to learn from everyone who actively participates regardless of their background or whether or not they earn money from woodworking or just do it for pleasure. (or somewhere in between)

[Ron Citerone]

Crazy Idea Here.................Learning on low end stuff makes you pay closer attention to technique and problem solving............leads to better results when you get to use better quality stuff?

[Jim Becker]

Yes and no, Ron. If the so-called "low end tool" is still of quality and works accurately and without fuss, then learning the ropes on it is just fine. But having to "fight" with a tool compromises a number of things including safety and if everything one does requires "problem solving" (because of the tool), then it can also discourage one from continuing with the activity. "High end" isn't necessary for sure, but... IMHO, of course.

I started with a typical bench top table saw. Then I bought a third party table/fence for it to try and make it actually work well enough to use consistently. Sold it for pennies on the dollar because that was the only way to unload it. Then I bought a contractor's style saw from a name brand that had a quality table, fence and motor. At that point, I was able to start actually learning woodworking and stop using so many bad words. My upgrades since there were primarily to add capability that I decided was right for me and worthy of my money investment. Had I bought that quality contractors' style saw first, I would have been much better financially as well as farther along with my skills much sooner.

[johnny means]

Crazy Idea Here.................Learning on low end stuff makes you pay closer attention to technique and problem solving............leads to better results when you get to use better quality stuff?
IME, learning on subpar equipment in subpar conditions often teaches subpar expectations. If repeatable 1/64" accuracy is impossible to achieve 1/8" becomes a close enough standard.

[Andrew Hughes]

You can forget about having the greatest tools because I believe I have them.:) The good news is you can still have the latest or newest.
Very satisfied here

[Jared Sankovich]

I divided woodworkers in two categories, professional and amateur. Professionals have his/her bread and butter from woodworking so the most important thing in a tool decision would be ROI (return of investment) - note I wrote "would be" as some of them are drived (or divided) by passion also.

Amateurs are a complete different class of woodworkers. They bring bread and butter to home with a different activity than woodworking. As name suggests they "love" woodworking for some reason and are ready to put his/her spare money and time on that. Note the ROI isn't the main criterion for amateurs

I'd say there is a third type, as much as I hesitate to use "DIY" as a type it fits. The person building something because they can't afford to pay (or don't want to pay) someone else to do it.

The home owner building a deck doesn't necessarily love construction but it's a means to a end. Just like the "woodworker" building a piece of custom furniture / custom cabinets / custom built-ins for themselves because they don't want to pay or can't pay for the quality they seek.

Sort of the "I needed 40,000lf of trim for my DIY reno so I bought a weinig hydromat" people.

False frugality..maybe but common enough

[Tom M King]

Someone came up with the best quote, a short while back, about a hobbyist buying tools. He said he considered it: "Buying future happiness". For those of us producing work for a living, it can run the gamut from buying happiness, to just getting the work done.

[Michael Costa]

YES! But whether or not we end up with it is a whole different story.

[Jacob Mac]

I think the OP's premise is a bit of a strawman. There are definitely some folks on here that are enthusiasts, and recommend high end tools. But there are even more people who advocate Craigslist, Harbor freight tools, Grizzly etc.

In other words, you definitely have the Festool crowd here, but there are plenty of folks who advocate for cheaper tools all the time.

If you're too poor, or simply unwilling, to buy expensive tools, there is plenty of advice from folks here about how to build great furniture without expensive tools.

Personally, I buy the best tools I can afford for the project I'm working on. Sometimes that is Harbor freight, sometimes that is MiniMax.

Get in where you fit in.

[Lisa Starr]

The "best" tools are not the most expensive-accurate-blah-blah-blah. Many of my tools are "oldies" that I refurbished/tuned-up. I love my little Atlas Bandsaw for contour work. And my ancient Delta Rockwell Drill Press is heavy, sturdy and was free! For me, the "best" tools meet my needs, hopefully have some emotional value and may be brand new or quite old.

[Rick Potter]

There are many posts where we have no clue whether the original post (or the answers), is coming from a newbie or a pro.

I have long thought it would be helpful for each of us to self label ourselves, and have it appear right under the place where it describes us as member or contributor. This would allow the OP to know what frame of reference the answers are coming from.

To answer your question, I started at age 24 when I bought a package of used tools from a classified ad. I got a Monkey Ward RAS, an old 8" Atlas table saw, a home made workbench, and an old Craftsman 12" band saw with no tires. I paid $125 for the bunch in maybe 1967 or so.

I got them because I wanted to add a room to my house, which meant DIY was all I could afford. I still consider myself a DIY'er mostly, but would love to do more hobby work. 50 years later, I am still doing stuff the current house needs.

I have collected some pretty nice tools, most used, over the years. Cannot refuse a good deal, but I have bought new also, as I can afford them. I now have a separate workshop full of neat stuff.

For what it's worth, that is how I got started. No training, very little input from my elders.

[John Goodin]

This has been well covered but one thing that comes to mind is the assumptions that come with the word budget and to a lesser extent tool size. For a hobbyist the amount of money they are willing to spend on a tool at a given time is not necessarily all they can afford. It is simply what they are willing to spend for a tool that meets their needs. Recently I was in the market for a 14" band saw and for how much I would use it was "worth" a 1000 budget. The advice I received was great although several people said I should save more, double my budget and get a better, bigger machine. I could have bought a $2000 band saw (my wife never asks what I spend) but the money could be more wisely spent on other things. I ended up with a Rikon 10-326 I love and will probably be the last band saw I own.

Size is a similar issue. For many who work out of their garage, space is a major factor in tool purchases. Space considerations for many are more important than budget when buying a power tool. Benchtop drill presses and lunch box planers are great tools when you only have a few hundred square feet to work. Yeah, the drill press wont be able to drill 4 inch deep hole with out some work and the planer won't handle a 20" wide slab but they are up to the task for the vast majority of what most hobbyists need.

[Patrick Kane]

I received a ton of enjoyment from making my first pieces using a 6” jointer, router, lunchbox planer, and portable table saw. Still using the workbench I made using those starter tools. If you enjoy building things and working with wood then I don’t think it ultimately matters what color your tools are. With that said, I definitely enjoy working more with the tools I currently have. No more clamping a jointed piece of wood as a straight edge for a circular saw. Much easier to have a stop on the felder outrigger. It is convenient to have things go smoothly and with minimal effort 99% of the time.

If you are depending on this for income, then that is all a different story. I take it that is not the reason the OP started the thread.

[Terry Therneau]

I grew up on a dairy farm. We didn't have fancy tools, but when you bought a wrench you made sure it was a good one (Craftsman in those long ago days), doing otherwise didn't make sense. My own rule was to buy a tool when I needed it, driven mostly by repairing my home and autos. I didn't take up woodworking until my kids were grown. I started with a Delta tilting table saw and some bar clamps. I thought of it as "make do" until a brother-in-law pointed out that I had gotten a better machine than the current big-box contractor saw and pointed me to the OWWM site. I've since enjoyed acquisition and use of older stuff, a 15 year ramp up to: 1947 Unisaw and scroll saw, 1920s Yates 6" jointer and 12" Solem planer, Walker-Turner 14" band saw, Moak 26" bandsaw, Delwat radial arm, Delta HD shaper, and lots of smaller stuff. I'm not against new: have an Inca router lift, DowelMax, and a Domino for instance. In the last year I sold my Solem planer and bought a 16" MM Jointer/planer; the Solem was hell for stout and did a great job, but I hated changing the knives, to the point that dull blades didn't do a good job. My main output is furniture for spouse and kids, and giving it to them is what is most fun.

I am a used equipment fan, since I could never have purchased all these machines otherwise. (The MM cost about equals the sum of all the others). Rehab was mostly just new bearings, which for me is also kind of fun. But that wouldn't be enjoyable to everyone. Do what brings you joy. I do have a nice dust system, but that was used too ($850 for a 5HP Oneida + 200 feet of pipe) + a used 15 HP VFD from craiglist ($50). Again, not everyone's cup of tea to set up.

My only other comment is to be aware of safety. Some of the new stuff is safer, and that may be worth a premium. I am likely to shift to a slider one day for only that reason: hands to close to a spinning blade makes me nervous.

Terry T.

[liam c murphy]

I discovered woodworking in college about 12 years ago. I started with a cheap Stanley miter box, and a Skill router. I lived in an apartment in Philadelphia. Sometime around 2007 I discovered Krenov, Nakashima and the other big names. Shortly thereafter, I found Woodworking Magazine, Fine Woodworking and various forums. I was a hobbyist who used mostly hand tools from 2007-2012. In 2013 I started to do woodworking full time. In the years that followed, I worked as an apprentice carpenter, and in furniture and cabinet shops. I got yelled at constantly. I learned to love power tools as much as hand tools.

I bought my first planer (DW735) prior to purchasing a vehicle. That planer lasted longer than my first truck. Over time, I acquired power tools that a carpenter might have, and a 6” jointer. Between 2017 and 2019, I got into larger power tools. Today, I have a 16” jointer, 20” planer etc.

I don’t think you need expensive tools to do good work. I don’t think beginners need the best tools. I think there is a point where many intermediate folks benefit from high quality professional quality tools. At a certain point, fighting tools is a waste of time. I think this applies to professionals and amateurs. It’s hard to learn higher order skills if your time is consumed with lower order tasks.

[George Werner]

Yes and no, Ron. If the so-called "low end tool" is still of quality and works accurately and without fuss, then learning the ropes on it is just fine. But having to "fight" with a tool compromises a number of things including safety and if everything one does requires "problem solving" (because of the tool), then it can also discourage one from continuing with the activity.

This comment right here sums up everything I believe about the topic of "pro vs hobbyist" when it comes to tool selection. If a tool is difficult to use, adjust and maintain accuracy it doesn't matter if you're a pro or a hobbyist, fighting with that tool results in different but still negative results. If you're a pro, that low end tool is probably going to end up costing you money in lost productivity. If you're a hobbyist learning your way, that low end tool could prove so discouraging that you give up. In both cases it could also result in safety issues. I equate it to the old belief that you're far more likely to cut yourself with a dull knife than with a properly sharpened one. Remember the saying, "Let the saw do the cutting"?

When it comes to the topic of people offering advice about what tools someone should buy, the one thing that drives me absolutely nuts is when people say you don't need the high end tool because you're a hobbyist, only a pro needs that particular tool. That is a ridiculous statement simply because the majority of pros look at tool purchases very differently than hobbyists. From what I've seen, most pros view tool purchases in terms of ROI, how it impacts their productivity and ultimately their bottom line which is exactly what they should be doing as responsible business owners. Hobbyists view the same tool purchase as something to enhance their hobby and that the tool may bring more enjoyment to what they're doing. At the end of the day it is no different than buying a high end camera and lenses to photograph birds or upgrading the suspension on your Jeep to go mudding on the weekends, doesn't matter if you're doing it professionally, if you can afford it and it brings you enjoyment then by all means go for it.

One other thing to consider is that a "high end tool" can serve as a gateway that can help people realize that they can actually pull off projects that they want to attempt. Any tool that makes the job easier will have that effect. If you haven't already figured it out, I'm a hobbyist. I've been doing my own home renovations for 20 years, did my first room remodel which was a complete bathroom gut down to the studs and the only power tool I had was a Ryobi 12V drill that I used to hang drywall. I did all the moulding and trim work with a plastic miter box and hand saw along with a hammer and nail sets so I get the idea of starting with the cheap stuff. The next reno project resulted in my first miter saw and a pancake compressor and nails guns. The realization quickly set in that I could do these projects and I didn't have to fight my way through them.

Skip ahead 20 years and we arrive at what is probably one of the most controversial tools that comes up in the pro vs hobbyist debate, the Domino. A couple years ago I got a good bonus from work and decided to splurge on a tool that most people would say isn't needed for a hobbyist so the Domino came home with me. I had never built a cabinet or table or any other piece of furniture because I didn't think I had the skills to do it. The Domino changed that thought process and opened up a new world for me, I was able to produce fairly decent looking pieces without having to fight my through the process or overthink every cut. Those results encouraged me to go even farther with what I was doing, it encouraged me to take on a larger effort and learn more about what I am doing. The next project is now a full kitchen cabinet build for our home. That one high end tool purchase completely changed the trajectory of what I thought I was capable of and inspired me to learn more about the craft. I realize the Domino isn't the end all/be all of joinery but for me it opened up a whole new world of possibilities in my hobby and a desire to learn more about our shared craft. Bottom line, that particular "high end tool" was a game changer for me in more ways than one and I would never discourage someone from buying a tool simply because they're "Just a hobbyist".

This ended up much longer than I planned when I started typing, sorry about that...

[Mike King]

I suspect there are woodworkers and tool collectors. I'm a bit of both. Having a good tool makes me feel good, even if I forget that I have it...

As I've become more of a woodworker, I find that I don't really have any more tools that I want to buy.

Mike

[Tom Willoughby]

This is a really interesting thread with many different perspectives and I agree with many of them. Regardless of whether wood working is a career or done for pleasure, it makes little sense to buy a tool that cannot produce good results. It is bad business for the professional and frustrating for the hobbyist (as well as the professional) and, at worse, unsafe.

Tool purchases often come down to priorities, which differ depending on your perspective. `Time is money’ is appropriate for the professional, which may eliminate from consideration older tools that require refurbishing or lower quality tools that may fail with higher frequency. Refurbishing tools for those with more time and buying lower quality tools that may be used infrequently are definitely reasonable choices. The triangle was mentioned earlier and it reminded me of an old project management adage; time, cost, and quality - pick any two.

I am a DIYer and often justify new tools through the ‘savings’ of doing it myself. This trade off works for me as I enjoy time in the workshop. I bought a miter saw with the labor savings of installing a patio sliding door myself (and with the help of my wife. I am not sure what she got out of the deal). I upgraded a Ridgid contractor saw with a Professional Sawstop tablesaw when I had the money because of the safety feature that was valuable to me. I debated long and hard about the money for a Festool Domino but bought it despite the high cost because it was so easy to put loose tennons exactly where I wanted and made my joinery easier and faster. I have no regrets with my choices but realize that others may make different ones.

I would suggest that you spend enough money to maximize your fun but no more.

Tom

[Jim Andrew]

When I was building houses, could not afford the machines or even the shop I now have, would have built the cabinets while the drywallers were at their work, although did on a few jobs. At that time, many customers believed custom cabinets were higher quality than manufactured cabinets, even though the joinery and hardware were better with the manufactured ones. Now I have a great shop, and although don't charge for much work, enjoy building things more than when I was a pro, probably just because of the lack of pressure. Find I just enjoy work, and having good equipment and tools just seem to be a necessity.

[Rob Damon]

My advice if you are just starting out:

Don't start the process by buy any tools!

1. Find something your want to build for yourself or a family member. Make sure it is a simple piece that can be built out of premilled pine from the BORG.

2. Search youtube for building projects similar to it and see what tools they use.

3. Figure out the dimensions of the project and how many pine boards you think you need and double it.
4. Go to the store (HF) with no more than $100 and pick out the basic tools. If you are unsure, come by and pick me up and I will go with you and help you pick what you really need to build the project and not what you think you need.
5. Then just start building it on your own. If you get stuck, call me, I will give advice but I won't do any of the work.
6. When you finish the project and find you really enjoyed it then hang in there and just buy the tools as you need them. If you found it enjoyable but frustating, then spend some time on YT or take a class. If you didn't enjoy it, you are only out a little money and can find someone to pass the tools onto.
If you still going strong in a year, then you can look at buying better long term tools.

That's how I started.

[Nick Shattuck]

I try to keep in mind that the cost of a tool is not how much I pay for it, but (how much I pay for it - what I could quickly sell it for). The only monetary loss is the difference, and expensive/quality tools tend to hold their value better than cheap alternatives.

[Charlie Hinton]

When I was young the budget only allowed buying the Craftsman 'special purchase' tools when they had additional markdowns.
That was simply the only thing I could afford and I had to be patient until those had additional markdowns.
I did a lot of work on the house with those tools.
40 years later I am still not made out of money, but my ideas about what constitutes a good tool have changed and I can choose some things just because I want them.
Since I am just a hobbyist / DIYer I don't typically buy top of the line tools / machines, but I do try to buy things that are easy to use and work the way they are supposed to work.
Typically I don't offer up much buying advice but on occasion if I have experience with a tool being asked about I will chime in on the merits or issues I have personally experienced.
The internet can be a terrific source of information or a terrible source of information.
People answering questions on Amazon (and other sites) baffle me.....
Q: Does this come with a three prong plug ?
A #1-5: Yes this has a 3 prong plug.
A #6&7: No this has a 2 prong plug.
Its only natural for people to recommend tools and machines that they like.
For those of us that have some mileage in the rear view mirror I think it's also natural to encourage others to try to spend just a little more (maybe at times a lot more) to avoid frustrations that were experienced in the past.

[Art Mann]

This observation may be a little off topic but I think it is interesting. I had a new house and shop built last summer and I noticed that without exception, my tools were of better quality than those of the people making a living with them. What does that say about who needs the best tools?

[Zachary Hoyt]

I've been in different places on the spectrum of tool buying. When I was 13 or 14 I bought a Skil jigsaw and a Dremel tool brand new, and I still have and use them. I also bought a 1/4 sheet palm sander which I quickly found to be pretty much useless. From then till I was 31 I didn't buy any new power tools, and not many new hand tools. 4 years ago I got an 18" Jet bandsaw at an auction in my little town for $320. I had been wanting a bigger bandsaw for years but got by without it till the right deal came along. I bought all of my tools at auctions or off Craigslist and sold tools on Craigslist that I had outgrown or had bought to resell at auctions.

Then in late 2017 I spent $600+ on a ring roller. It saves me a lot of time on a repetitive task, and makes neater brass circles than I could make by hand. My reasoning was that I could make 1/8x1/2" banjo tension hoops by hand, but I wanted to try making tone hoops and those required 3/16" brass, which was a lot harder to bend by hand. To buy a Whyte Laydie type tone ring is $120-150 depending on the supplier, and the brass is $30 or less, so I figured once I had made 6 or 7 tone rings I would have paid for the roller and it should be stout enough to last the rest of my life for the kind of work I do. Last spring I bought a new SuperMax drum sander because I had been watching for a used one for a couple of years and not finding the deal I wanted. I could have gotten a Grizzly for less, but the SuperMax had better reviews. I decided to spend the money since my business had gotten busy enough to justify it, and I am glad I did. Also buying the little Rikon 10-305 to partner with my bigger bandsaw was a good thing, it only cost me around $200 and both these tools have saved untold hours already and made it easier to make a higher quality product.

I still wouldn't buy new tools for jobs that were not something I make money at, but I do spend money on used tools for them. I had to buy a heavier duty and variable speed router to build a wood strip canoe since my ancient Craftsman router sounded like it was about to fly apart with the big cove and bead bits. I have since used that router for money-making work, but the canoe bit set that I paid $30 for has only been used twice, once for each canoe I made. I hope to use them again when I have time.
Zach

[Brian Henderson]

This observation may be a little off topic but I think it is interesting. I had a new house and shop built last summer and I noticed that without exception, my tools were of better quality than those of the people making a living with them. What does that say about who needs the best tools?

Same here. When we had a new roof put on almost 2 years ago now, the roofing crew had vastly inferior tools to what I had. Their portable compressor struggled to keep up with them so I dragged out some lines from my big 80-gallon IR and let them hook up and they almost went crazy. They had what they could get by with. I have a lot more, in some situations, than I could ever use. I think far too many people go the extreme overkill route, just because they think they have to have the best, even if the best isn't really that worthwhile.

[Ray Newman]

When I had our current house and shop built, I also observed that my tools were better than what the contractor’s crews had or what the contractor provided and there was a reason why.

I saw the crews dragging drills and circular saws around by the power cord, using a job site table saw with a dull blade and the saw just about thrown into the trailer at the end of the day, underpowered generator, batteries tossed around and if it dropped, the attitude was “it’s the boss’ not mine”, etc. One day I talked to the foreman and he said the reason for El Cheapo – handyman - Harbor Freight etc., is that most workers do not care about a tool if they have not paid for it, and if it is a good tool, it is often ”lost or misplaced” on the job site never to be found. Since then I have heard the same from others who work in the building trades.

[Brian Holcombe]

Don't forget, there is a whole host of vintage tools that you also 'have' to buy, better get on with it....but please do leave all the ones I want.

Thanks ahead of time.

[Mike Kees]

As a professional carpenter for the last 27 years who now has a cabinet shop my perspective is different. All my tools are quality,I do not have time for cheap crap. No I do not have a sliding tablesaw in my work trailer ,but there is no harbor freight either. My 'jobsite ' t.s. is a Delta contractor saw on a custom base with 6'' castors and a 32'' biesmeyer fence. It was cheaper than the 'jobsite' saws like bosch with stand, and way better. I do quality work,period .Whether framing or in my shop and personally it is way more economical (timewise and money) to do my work with decent or great tools. YMMV. I feel incredibly blessed to have the machinery I do in my shop and would never suggest that what I have is necessary for everyone,it took me the whole 27 years and selling an asset in my business to do it. Everyone who enjoys woodworking has to work out their path and do it with whatever they have available to them. I really enjoy this forum and all the various people on it,and all of their perspectives. So to answer the O.P. 's original question ,no we do not all have to have the latest/greatest tool .

[Zac wingert]

I think the main factor is time and skill. A very skilled person with a dull saw and chisel will still produce a result better than an inexperienced person with thousands of dollars worth of machinery.

Further, two people of equal skill will produce equal results with different quality of tools. The difference is how long it will take.

I am considering people doing this for a hobby rather than for a livelyhood. If it’s a business priority changes.


I feel there is a great deal of retail mania. However, I will acknowledge that if splurging $1200 for a festiool sander and vacuum was pocket change with no effect on the rest of my life, I’d do things like that weekly. There seems to be an attitude that you can’t build a certain thing or get a certain result without buying a certain tool. Let’s not forget that the wood workers of past made very high quality furniture with far less. Granted it probably took longer and took far more skill. So, do you want to collect exspensive tools or spend time collecting skill?

I had had my share of experience with bad tools and at a certain point the frustration of trying to deal with a truly bad tool is not worth any amount of time or money. But the internet, marketing, etc.. have really confused ideas of what is reasonable.

[Ray Newman]

"I had had my share of experience with bad tools and at a certain point the frustration of trying to deal with a truly bad tool is not worth any amount of time or money. But the internet, marketing, etc.. have really confused ideas of what is reasonable."
--Zac Wingert

BINGO!

[mreza Salav]

I am a hobbyist with a decent collection of tools that have collected/upgraded over the last 13 years or so. I started with furniture for our house and then a few years ago when we were building our house
(documented here: https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?220868-Building-a-new-house-from-foundation-to-finishing-and-all-the-woodworking&highlight=) I did a lot of work for the house. I built the 31 interior doors out of solid maple (documented in 3 threads below):

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?205854-Building-a-few-interior-doors&highlight=
https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?210969-Second-batch-of-doors&highlight=
https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?214011-3rd-%2528and-Final%2529-batch-of-interior-doors&highlight=

Built a stave core Mahogany 2.25" thick door:

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?207022-Building-an-entry-door-%2528work-in-progress-%2529&highlight=

Built lots of trim work

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?215562-Built-a-few-columns&highlight=
https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?220868-Building-a-new-house-from-foundation-to-finishing-and-all-the-woodworking&highlight=

Built the railing for the house

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?217053-Stair-railing-and-posts&highlight=

And the cabinets:

All with my tools which are by no means industrial grade; all the doors were made on my table saw and using a router (have a small shaper but was easier to use my router).
I believe in getting good tools to get the job done but it's been a long since I purchased a tool (not that I have the best ones, but I think I can do everything with what I already have. It might take a bit longer (so bit it as I'm not a business).
When doing the work for my own house it took me about 1.5 years to do all those work (while I had my full time job as well). I priced everything that I did and the total of what I did if I wanted to sub it out was around $200k-250k. It cost me about $30-40k in material and a lot of time/effort but I have earned multiple times of what I have put into my tools and I am satisfied with the quality of the job at the end (I am fussy/picky).

[John Sincerbeaux]

The reality is...... MONEY! Generally, the more money a person has for discretionary spending, the more they will spend.
The more money a business makes, the nicer(more expensive) equipment they invest in.
Drive down a wealthy neighborhood and notice the cars you will see parked in the garages or porticos. People who own million dollar homes, drive expensive cars and have expensive toys. Recently I noticed A Mercedes Sprinter van painted in Amazon Prime livery. You don’t see many Sprinter vans used for delivery vans in the U.S. But if your company is Amazon, you can buy the “best”.
Human Nature! If you can afford the best, you want the best, you will buy the best!

[lowell holmes]

Back in the day . . . we had hand saws and then a "skill" saw. Then we made a 12" x 96" track that had a 1x2 stop to ride against.
That was our track. Then someone came out with an aluminum track for the "skill" saw.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

My Sear Craftsman table saw was $12.50 at a local farm auction. I checked it out before hand and knew it was tight in all the important places. So many guys did not bid on it because it was 220. 15 minutes or rewiring changed it to 110. I started turning in my father's workshop. When I decided to get back into turning, I paid $10 for a 100 year old lathe. It still does almost everything a spindle turner could want. Now it was a little more advanced than the average hobby lathe of the period. It has morse tapers in both head stock and tail stock. My scroll saw is a $20.00 wonder from a yard sale. (A variable speed skil 16 inch) It comes in handy for a lot of things, but I do not do much fret work. Back in the late 1970's, I lived in Arlington VA. All the Willy and Joes, who came back from the big one and had home work shops were retiring or going up yonder. For fifteen years or so, I made a part time business out of buying up workshop machinery and hauling it to central PA to sell usually for about three times what I paid. If Sears or Delta sold it, dozens of it went through my hands. I had swapped and traded and accumulated a pretty good shop, just from used equipment. Then in 2015, my shop burned to the ground. A few tools were out in the barn and were spared. So start over again. My Craftsman table saw is a heavy duty for a home owner, and light for a pro. as I said $12.50 at an auction. My Craftsman 12 inch bandsaw is a relic from the 1970's, but still works well for my purposes. I have not replaced the metal lathes, I did pick up a solid chinese made floor model drill press from the 1980's for $60.00. My FIL gave me a few of his old tools and I have acquired others at yard sales and even new. My main lathe is an old Delta/Rockwell school shop behemoth. I also have my first lathe that was out in the barn, and two identical Harbor freight 12 x 34 lathes. (I like to hop from lathe to lathe rather than change tools over for every operation.) My Skil worm drive saw was like new in the box, for $25.00 at an auction. My old Millers Falls 1/2 hp drill motor was $10 at a yard sale. New cord cost me more, but having a big portable drill has come in handy for some post and beam work. When i pull that giant out, folks eyes sure widen.

[Joe Hollis]

I have a mix of good quality tools and some I got at garage sales and some such many years ago. My first major tool purchase was a used Rockwell/Beaver table saw 30 years ago. If I can stay away from Lee Valley long enough to save the money, my next 'tool' is going to be investing in some woodworking courses.

[Brad Barnhart]

I concur with Mr. Keith. My wood workin' hobby wasn't even my idea 25+ years ago, it was my Bride's, of all folks!

I started with a circular saw, a Craftsman Radial Arm saw, a used drill & a few bits, a router and few burnt up bits that came with the router, an ol' handsaw, a single speed scroll saw, and a tape measure. And the thing I knew for certain how to use was the tape measure.

Bein' an OTR truck driver all my life, I'd never been around any of these tools of sort before. I spent a lot of time researchin' & readin' about how ya use these tools proper. It took me along time to even decide if I wanted to tie into the hobby or not, but, our family Sawbones at the time highly recommended I learn to quit eattin, sleepin, thinkin' & drinkin' trucks, or the consequences weren't going to be in my favor.

So, long story short, I kept truckin', but at a slower pace. And took up the hobby of wood working. I tinkered around and made a few projects, nothin' showy. And I didn't have any new shiny tools yet. I just learned to use what I had, and kept movin' forward. Goin' to the library and checkin' out books, takin' them on the road with me to read. Turn them in when I come in.

The deeper I got into this hobby, the call for better tools came about. And out here on the plains of NW Kansas, wood workin' tools are about as scarce as the trees are in this country. So, I had to resort to the internet to look into these "better" tools. I got myself an account here on SMC, and a couple other sites lookin' and merely askin' for advice, nothin' else. I encountered pretty much just exactly what the Op discussed in his original post. ADVICE???? Suggestin' to a feller just startin' out that ya need this and ya this brand name, ya gotta have these chisels, and these blades. Horse hockey! I agree with buyin' the best you can afford at the time, but, most times, there's lot's of folks out here gettin' into this wood hobby that their "wood tool store" is Harbor Freight, Gentlemen. And that's for certain. I'll never be able to afford a $8500 lathe, or a $4000 table saw, or a $1800 bandsaw.

My shop is rented, and across the street from our house. I have been over there 3 years now. By the graciousness of our neighbors, the gentleman cleaned it out for us so we could move our tools out of the basement and into his retired beauty shop. I couldn't make the steps to the basement any longer, I didn't have a choice. I have 400 sq. ft. of work space in my shop. It's heated & a/c'd. And I promise ya, there's enough toys in that 400 sq. ft. to do anything I want to do with wood.

Ya see, this similar subject just came up on a another site I regular. Imo, it ain't about how many fancy, shiny, high dollar tools ya got in your shop, or what breed they are. It's a matter of affordability and personal choice. What is useable and workable. I started out with one single speed scroll saw for instance, now I own 5, with my newest being a Hawk.

A newbie starts in on me about gettin' into this hobby, one of the first things I mention to them is to avoid wood sites and high dollar tools. If they ask why, well, I reckon that question has been answered more than once.

[Rick Potter]

Like my rich buddy says, It's not the arrow, it's the Indian.

I confess to being a tool junkie, but I have seen lots of nice projects around made by inexpensive tools, by hobbyists.

[Rod Sheridan]

Ha, that depends on how twisted you are. One of the first things that comes to my mind when someone mentions Maloof is him standing in front of an Agazzani bandsaw roughing out chair parts...

My FIL is a retired cabinetmaker who served his apprenticeship in England.

While we dismiss the requirement for high quality tools to perform good work, it actually was a requirement of his apprenticeship . A minimum base of tools were specified by the company, and you paid for them through pay deductions. John often spoke of the fact that that a large portion of his wages went to hand tool purchases while he was an apprentice.

I had a friend who apprenticed with RR industrial and he stated the same thing. Bill also described sitting in the kitchen of the boarding house cutting out shadow box liners for his tool cabinet with a coping saw, and then lining the cutouts with RR blue felt. His tool cabinet was inspected on a routine basis by his supervisor as his apprenticeship progressed. The required tools had to be there, neat and clean.

We now have excellent planes that cost less than a days wages, John paid for hand planes, squares, saws etc that cost more than a days wage.

At work I often hire contractors, you can tell a lot about a worker by his tools, and his attitude towards them. If they come in carrying all their rusty tools in a jumble in a 20 litre pail, that's often a good indication of the quality of work I'll receive from them. The guys that show up with organized tools, well cared for, usually have higher work output than the guy who can't find what he's looking for.

Now as hobbyists we can sit around and make furniture with an old rusty spoon if we wish, however I have this overly romantic attachment to nice tools, and enjoy using them much more than HF stuff. Do I need a sliding saw/shaper at home? Nope, however the capacity and capability make my shop time more enjoyable, productive and safer than struggling with other items.

I've always bought expensive enough tools that I don't have to replace them often, for work or at home. I don't have enough disposable income to buy cheap tools.

That said, I've started a handful of neighbourhood kids over the years on the woodworking journey making a bench hook with a hand plane and backsaw, exactly the way I started 50 odd years ago. They get to keep the bench hook, and if they're really keen I buy them a backsaw..........A few have continued to use the shop and learn, and I've learned a lot from them.

It's a journey that's more pleasurable with nice tools............Rod.