Private Messaging Access Priviliges

[Keith Outten]

Private Messaging Privileges and email are now inaccessible to free-access Members.

Because the majority of our Members are now using advertisement blocking software we are being forced to adjust some access privileges. This is an effort to encourage everyone to help us maintain the necessary funding to remain online and support our costs including new hardware, software and bandwidth. Currently our costs have not increased but our income has decreased below our ability to remain at the present level of service. By updating your account to Contributor status you will continue to have full access here and your assistance is appreciated.

[Mark McClurg]

I can't reply to classifieds - as far as I can tell, I never could. Do I have to be a contributor for that?

[Bruce Page]

I can't reply to classifieds - as far as I can tell, I never could. Do I have to be a contributor for that?

Yes. As a Contributor you would have full access to the Classifieds forum.

Some other benefits that Contributors enjoy:

Ability to turn off banner ads
Access to post in the Classifieds
Larger avatar (100x100)
Ability to create and post Blogs
Ability to post public and private project Photo Albums
Access to the private Lumber Yard forum
Double the private message Inbox size

[Roy Petersen]

Some other benefits that Contributors enjoy
Double the private message Inbox size
The "inbox size" is currently zero for non contributors, since we/they have no access at all.

[Bruce Page]

The "inbox size" is currently zero for non contributors, since we/they have no access at all.

Very true, cut & paste strikes again. I believe the size limit for Contributors is 200 messages.

[Keith Outten]

From my original post:
Private Messaging Privileges and email are now inaccessible to free-access Members.

We discussed in the past the option of becoming a subscription based service if we fell short of the necessary income we need to remain online. Rather than make such a drastic step I decided to make a smaller adjustment to access privileges in order to give everyone a chance to help without eliminating all access. The only other option we have is to remove picture viewing and file attachment access but at that point we would probably move to a subscription based service with an annual fee of 24 dollars. I expect the majority of our Members rarely use our Private Messaging system so Its easy to predict what will happen in the near term. For over 15 years people have told me that they did not feel the need to make a financial contribution when everything they wanted was free. Free access was paid for by our advertisers and blocking software has reduced that option dramatically over the last twelve months.

[Roy Petersen]

I decided to make a smaller adjustment to access privileges
Not sure why you've reiterated that here; it's your site and you get to make those choices. I was just pointing out that you (actually, that was Bruce) stated it was "Double the private message Inbox size" when it's not, strictly speaking. It's allowed access to an inbox, albeit larger than the default, *if* regular members had access. ;)

[Bill Carey]

Private Messaging Privileges and email are now inaccessible to free-access Members.

Because the majority of our Members are now using advertisement blocking software we are being forced to adjust some access privileges. This is an effort to encourage everyone to help us maintain the necessary funding to remain online and support our costs including new hardware, software and bandwidth. Currently our costs have not increased but our income has decreased below our ability to remain at the present level of service. By updating your account to Contributor status you will continue to have full access here and your assistance is appreciated.

I've seen threads pop up about members becoming contributors and for the life of me I can't understand who, if they are doing woodworking and buy materials and have tools - even basic tools - can't afford the 6 bucks a year. It's the cost of a pack of cigarettes or a good (well - sorta good) cigar. I lost all of my retirement in 08, and am far from real comfortable, so I don't think I'm out of line challenging members to pony up if they like the site, enjoy the posts, learn some stuff, and think the site has value. Sermon done.

[Tony Pisano]

Just sent $20 to help keep things going. Thanks for all everyone does.

[Aaron Rosenthal]

Just contributed the $US fee - sure is a lot more in Canadian

[Jackie Outten]

Tony and Aaron, thank you for your donation.

Jackie Outten

[George Bokros]

I intend to renew my paid membership as soon as I get out of medical rehab which is next week.

[Bob Bouis]

Don't want to tell you how to run your site, but it seems to me that being able to post to the classifieds section would be a lot more valuable as an incentive to contribute if everyone could buy your items instead of just a relatively small number contributors.

[Keith Outten]

Bob,

Members have always had the ability to visit our Classifieds Forum and communicate with those who had items they were interested in buying. On one hand the changes we made will reduce the value of our Classifieds, on the other hand providing almost everything for free here is what has put us in the situation we are today since our advertising income is dwindling. I sincerely hope that in time the majority will see the wisdom in supporting SawMill Creek rather than lose it permanently. A couple of dollars per month is insignificant considering the cost of woodworking as a hobby so its a mater of whether the value of the expertise and friendship here is worthy of the minor expense. I have the option to turn over our advertising to any number of companies that will manage the advertising here that are very profitable BUT I expect everyone here would complain about the visual abuse. Since I don't like this option I have never even considered taking this path.

Should this tactic fail the next step is to convert to a subscription based Forum and no doubt the numbers here will decrease at least for a time. If we cannot find a solution to our funding needs we will cease to exist or possibly remain online as a very small community until we cannot replace a failed server or afford the monthly bandwidth bill. There are other woodworking forums that will most likely remain free for a long time but there is only one SawMill Creek.

Tomorrow or Saturday I hope to open up our Hall of Fame web page and I hope that this will help us to attract more advertisers but its a task that gets more and more difficult every year.

[Barry McFadden]

Just contributed the $US fee - sure is a lot more in Canadian

When I renewed mine recently I think the US $6.00 turned out to be about $147.50 Canadian...:(

[John K Jordan]

I've seen threads pop up about members becoming contributors and for the life of me I can't understand who, if they are doing woodworking and buy materials and have tools - even basic tools - can't afford the 6 bucks a year. It's the cost of a pack of cigarettes or a good (well - sorta good) cigar. I lost all of my retirement in 08, and am far from real comfortable, so I don't think I'm out of line challenging members to pony up if they like the site, enjoy the posts, learn some stuff, and think the site has value. Sermon done.

I decided with my poor memory it was easier to sign up for an automatic contribution each month. (Monthly Recurring Contribution https://sawmillcreek.org/payments.php) The only minor irritation is the monthly message that says my "access to the paid subscription "Monthly Recurring Contribution" is about to expire" but that is a minor thing compared to the convenience.

[Matt Schroeder]

Does this mean that my two classified items are basically only for sale to contributors now, since nobody else has a way to contact me unless I want to put an email or phone number for the world to see?

[Roy Petersen]

Does this mean that my two classified items are basically only for sale to contributors now, since nobody else has a way to contact me unless I want to put an email or phone number for the world to see?
"Yes"
<<Ist Verboten>>

[John K Jordan]

Does this mean that my two classified items are basically only for sale to contributors now, since nobody else has a way to contact me unless I want to put an email or phone number for the world to see?

I thought if you enabled email in your profile your email address is not on display but anyone can still send an email to you through the system. They will get your email address if you respond which you might want anyway if selling the item. (If the item is already sold or if there are general questions you can always respond in the thread itself instead.)

If you respond to such an email with the reply form, the system warns you:
Note: By using this form, your email address will become available to the user who you are emailing.


Roy's idea is probably a good idea. I use that on occasion.

JKJ

[Matt Schroeder]

I guess there are ways to work around the new limitations. As a contributor I was hoping to have it make my life easier, not have to come up with ways to work around things. I don't want to get in an argument, but would suggest that this new limitation may be counterproductive to its goals.

[Keith Outten]

Email is turned off for Members, therefore we won't allow public posting of email addresses which is a very bad idea anyway.

Matt, I understand your concerns but the only other option we have is to move to a subscription based system with no free access. Contributors then become subscribers and all services here would be open to everyone. Obviously we would lose a substantial number of people.

Just be patient everyone we are going to resolve this one way or the other very soon.

Please don't publicly discuss any workarounds, that's what got us in this predicament in the first place. Advertising blocking is the culprit folks. Advertising was what was paying for your free access.

[roger wiegand]

Might I suggest you change the "suggested contribution" to something that will better support the site? I sent you $6 a year for several years because that's what you asked for. Reading some of these threads made me aware that that wasn't anywhere near a break-even number for you, so I bumped it up to $5/month on a recurring basis, closer to what it's worth to me, on a par with subscribing to a good magazine. If not for bumping into one of these threads by chance I'd still be sending $6 a year.

Yes, I have and use an ad blocker, and I'm not going to stop. If sites tell me that I can't use their site if I don't look at their ads, that's fine, I don't use their site and don't try to work around their blocks. I'm also happy to pay my fair share to keep useful sites up and operating since there is no "free" out there.

In the old days we contributed network bandwidth, server space, and compute cycles to run Usenet without ads; perhaps we need the next great internet invention to take us back to a model where the users could directly support a community with distributed access and costs.

[Chris Parks]

All this will do is delay what has already started. Since browsers included ad blockers it was obvious that someone was going to suffer, blame Opera for leading the charge. I will bet good money that a lot of people don't know they are using an ad blocker and would not know how to turn it off and the further we get into web browsers updating cycle the worse the problem will become hence my opening statement. It will be interesting to see what the advertisers reaction is in a few years when they find their views declining.

[Keith Outten]

If everyone would donate 6 bucks per year we would have way more money then we need. In fact we could afford the custom programming to build a shops tours module I have mentioned many times over the years. If we move to a subscription based service I already know that the annual subscription will be 2 dollars per month.

Chris, its not a few years from now its right now. Our numbers dropped from an average of 16 million banner views per month to just over 44,000 per month since January 2018. This is not just happening to us it is all over the Internet. The hammer is dropping, I am trying to stay ahead of the problem so I can make changes before its to late.

[Mike Shields]

Might there ever be an opportunity to pay the fee with something besides PayPal?

I'll gladly pay the credit card fee, if it means not having to open a PayPal account just to pay this sites fee.

[Jim Becker]

Mike, you don't need a PayPal account to pay with a CC, AFAIK. Maybe that's not true for recurring, however. I don't know.

[Bruce Page]

Mike, you can also pay by check. Keith has a snail mail address at the bottom of the Donate page.

[Biff Phillips]

Well, thanks for announcing this. At least now I know to stop checking the classified ads here every day.

[Jim Becker]

Alternatively, you could eschew a cup of coffee or two for one day and just contribute six bucks for Contributor level and continue to shop the classifieds if that is what you find to be valuable about participating in the SMC community. ;)

[Biff Phillips]

Alternatively, you could eschew a cup of coffee or two for one day and just contribute six bucks for Contributor level and continue to shop the classifieds if that is what you find to be valuable about participating in the SMC community. ;)

Jim, it's not the $6 that is the problem.
You guys are free to do whatever you want with the board of course.
What you are going to see however (my prediction) is that contributors will list their stuff on other boards to appeal to a larger audience.
This sort of already happens. 90% of the classifieds on SMC are on another board.
This new policy will kill SWC classifieds, whether I become a contributor or not.
Again, I hope this is not taken as complaining, just my prediction.

[Jim Becker]

Unfortunately, Keith cannot worry about what goes on elsewhere...he's just actively trying to insure that funds are available to operate this forum at the level folks expect despite the massive downturn in ad revenue that SMC and pretty much every other site have been experiencing. News sites, forums, blogs...everywhere...have taken a big hit. Here at SMC, if enough folks pony up the six bucks in the current program, it will help avoid harder measures. Keith has been pretty darn transparent about that about that.

[Charles P. Wright]

I will certainly renew my contributor status, but I do agree that the Classifieds are not useful if there isn't a critical mass of people to respond. Perhaps you could allow sending PMs (but not receiving them) for non-Contributors?

I would certainly worry that if you turn Contributor only, then the discussion would evolve into the same people talking to each other without enough diversity of questions or answers to keep it interesting.

16MM -> 44K impressions is certainly a huge drop, hopefully the new policy helps things.

[Rod Sheridan]

Keith, thanks for all you do for us, and thanks for the annual reminder to pay my membership, otherwise I would probably forget.

I would also like to thank the moderators who provide their time to keep the place running in a friendly manner.........Regards, Rod.

[brent stanley]

Thanks for the heads up Kieth. I gave $50 and it's totally worth it for all the great ideas shared.

I also think that because of the existential nature of it, it would be totally reasonable to put the subject as a sticky in every sub forum.

Let us know what we can do to help,

B

[Bill Space]

I have the option to turn over our advertising to any number of companies that will manage the advertising here that are very profitable BUT I expect everyone here would complain about the visual abuse. Since I don't like this option I have never even considered taking this path.


I have wondered why other sites I have visited for many (up to 15+) years seem to be successful without requiring members to become contributors. I suppose the quote above answers my question…

Just as a data point, I personally have not been bothered by the ads that I see on the other sites I visit, for what that’s worth. Actually I think I tune out the adds subconsciously, as they seem to be everywhere and they don’t seem to bother me for the most part.

Bill

[Stewie Simpson]

Private Messaging Privileges and email are now inaccessible to free-access Members.

Because the majority of our Members are now using advertisement blocking software we are being forced to adjust some access privileges. This is an effort to encourage everyone to help us maintain the necessary funding to remain online and support our costs including new hardware, software and bandwidth. Currently our costs have not increased but our income has decreased below our ability to remain at the present level of service. By updating your account to Contributor status you will continue to have full access here and your assistance is appreciated.

Keith; can I suggest you fine tune your leadership skills, and mandate this forum site will be restricted to financial contributors only.

regards Stewie;

[Keith Outten]

Stewie,

It's Coming!

I'm just trying to give everyone the opportunity to get onboard before we make the change to a subscription based Community. I am sure that lots of people will curse me and accuse me of a whole host of terrible crimes when we make the change but I will at least be able to say that I tried to encourage everyone to help and they all knew that the change was coming. The majority here never read my posts concerning administration or ever visit the Support Forum but most of them will have noticed that they lost access to Private Messages.

[Steve Clardy]

Having trouble with the paypal donate thing. It's gets to the review screen, then quits.
Any ideas?
If I had the Northwinds email address I could sent it straight through.

Oh, and thanks for the automated Happy Birthday email!! Not that I enjoy getting older....:rolleyes:

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Having trouble with the paypal donate thing. It's gets to the review screen, then quits.
Any ideas?
If I had the Northwinds email address I could sent it straight through.

Oh, and thanks for the automated Happy Birthday email!! Not that I enjoy getting older....:rolleyes:

Clardy, I'd suggest getting older is better than the alternative?:confused::eek::p;):D

[Steve Clardy]

Clardy, I'd suggest getting older is better than the alternative?:confused::eek::p;):D


You have a good point Ken

[Keith Outten]

Contacting us is pretty easy.

On the Donate Page there is a postal address.
At the bottom of every page here is an email link.
PayPal transactions are sent to sales@northwindassociates.com, note this is not an email address.

[Steve Clardy]

I got it done the other day. Changed computers and the donate button worked, not stalling out.

[Matthew Curtis]

Is PayPal the only payment method for paying my donation?

[Jackie Outten]

Matthew

You can send a check to Northwind Associates, 8770 Little England Road, Hayes, VA 23072.

Jackie Outten

[Curt Harms]

I have wondered why other sites I have visited for many (up to 15+) years seem to be successful without requiring members to become contributors. I suppose the quote above answers my question…

Just as a data point, I personally have not been bothered by the ads that I see on the other sites I visit, for what that’s worth. Actually I think I tune out the adds subconsciously, as they seem to be everywhere and they don’t seem to bother me for the most part.

Bill

Another reason to block ads is that they can also carry malware (Look!! something for nothing!!). Ads can also cause a page to stall when the ad server (not Sawmill Creek) stalls. It's usually possible to whitelist sites individually which is what I do.

[Jim Becker]

Is PayPal the only payment method for paying my donation?

You don't need to have a PayPal account to pay with a CC if that's what you prefer...when you get to the PayPal "login" pop-up, below the UN/PW area is another link to just make a credit card transaction. PP is only the clearing house for the card processing at that point. If you don't want to do that, as has been noted, there is a physical address to mail a check to on the Donate page, too.

[Tim Derr]

Hey Keith,

I went to post a thread to the deals and discounts forum for Felder Group with AWFS but I'm not finding a "new post" button anywhere. How do I go about getting some information out about what we have going on over here at Felder Group for AWFS?

Thanks

Tim

[Bert Kemp]

I think you need to be a contributor to post there. See the announcements at the top of each forum

[Si Wood]

Hi ALL and Happy Tuesday! I'm not posting to ruffle any feathers, mainly just " food for thought " I'm guessing people come here for a variety of reasons and walk away with what they came for, why else would they come by and likely come back. I for one come to by to get answers and hopefully return the favors ( because they are ) and help my fellow members, maybe make some friends ( not sure about that after this post ). To me, that's just the nuts and bolts of why these forums work. Over the years of working or simply being, one gathers valuable experiences no matter the discipline, and that has value and is gained by the most valuable " thing " we have as human beings, TIME. I know very little about what it takes to run/host a site such as SMC but what I do know is that it doesn't come about by itself, it takes a concerted ( meaning a pool ) of efforts, time and some very real experience from a group of people... NOTHING is free. Making a small ( and it is small in today's terms ) contribution seems to me the best way to say " Thanks, I appreciate and respect your time " and, as long as these SMALL contributions are made by the " whole " of members, then we can all keep coming back here to get more of what we're here to get...It's all about appreciation for other people's time and to benefit all that come here... even yourself. I for one appreciate getting paid for my time and experience, I'm sure we all do, that's how we're able to put food on the table. PLEASE, consider your thoughts and words before expecting things to be free without a concerted contribution, we all benefit. By the way, I'm very new to the " Forum " thing even though I have lots of experience in my field of work, I didn't have the right experience to get me past a hurdle, that's why I got on board. I hope my contribution helps...just my two cents

[John DeSalvo]

I spent days trying to log into your site. The robo preventer is a pain to deal with and because you only get 5 tries to get it right, I forgot about it and tried the next day. It is easier to log into my bank account than this site. I'll check this site out for a while and see if it is worth investing any money. I think if the software was better thought out you would have more members contributing.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I spent days trying to log into your site. The robo preventer is a pain to deal with and because you only get 5 tries to get it right, I forgot about it and tried the next day. It is easier to log into my bank account than this site. I'll check this site out for a while and see if it is worth investing any money. I think if the software was better thought out you would have more members contributing.

No offense but the suggested donation is $6.00 annually. I wouldn't call that an investment.

[Meryl Logue]

Well, thanks for announcing this. At least now I know to stop checking the classified ads here every day.

😳 12345678910

[Meryl Logue]

Personally, I get so much value from here that I’ve subscribed.

[Vince Shriver]

I sent a six dollar contribution to the address indicated here a couple weeks ago and can not open pictures.

[Jackie Outten]

Vince

I checked with Keith and he did receive your check. He posted your time but forgot to upgrade you to contributor. We apologize for any inconvenience it has caused you. You have access now. Thank you for letting us know. We will do better in the future.