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Edward Henry
01-02-2019, 7:12 PM
I have not been on in awhile my woodshop is mostly completed I find a lot of my scroll saw and pyrography projects are on 1/3” or 1/4” Baltic birch or other woods sometimes walnut. I have a new friend teaching me how to use my wood shop tools and I mentioned wanting to get either a CNC or Laser engraver next and he suggested a laser engraver would be more versatile for his and my current needs in crafts.

what I am wondering what would be best for cutting 1/8, 1/4, 1/2 and 1/3” wood. If laser what is minimum power I would need with the fewest passes? 1 preferred. How much will it burn into the edges of wood so I can make the cuts larger than needed to sand away the burn marks? I have CaMaster CNC dreams with a Shapeoko budget so not yet sure what CN I want and am still deciding on Epilog, or Trotech Lasers.

Joe Pelonio
01-02-2019, 9:02 PM
My Epilog is 45 watts, and I can cut 1/4” oak, Baltic or ply in one pass. I have cut 3/8” in two passes, and never tried anything thicker. The laser’s cutting beam is hourglass shaped, so there is an angle to the cut. It’s barely noticeable up to about 1/8” but even at 1/4 parts won’t fit together right if you are making things that get glued up. For most art projects it won’t matter. The edge burn is very easy to sand off on most woods, a couple of passes with 120 and it’s gone.

Edward Henry
01-02-2019, 11:50 PM
Thanks for the reply Joe. Saving money now for the next tool leaning toward the biggest with 50watt Epilog Mini (dreaming of a Helix)

Kev Williams
01-03-2019, 2:40 PM
If cutting is your main focus, go Chinese glass, WAY more bang for the buck. Up to 80 watts they'll engrave nice too, but SLOW.

For raster engraving, you want an RF machine aka 'western' with a Synrad, Coherent, etc. metal tube (or a Ceramic by Trotec)

I have 3 metal lasers, 30, 35 and 40 watts, and an 80w Chinese. While the metal lasers will engrave circles around the Chinese machine, they can't even begin to keep up with the cutting capabilities of my 80w glass machine...
My 2 cent advice, get both; pick up a new Chinese machine, and search out a good used metal machine, which will still likely cost double the Chinese machine, but they work well for years and hold their value much better...

I have 17 various lasers and tool engravers in my house, and most of them I've bought used, ALL of which have been extremely reliable and have paid for themselves many times over...

Edward Henry
01-05-2019, 3:56 PM
Are Trotec Laser just rebranded and modified Chinese lasers?

John Lifer
01-05-2019, 7:19 PM
No. Austrian company as good or better than epilog. They are number one and two (pick your order) of quality lasers.

Kev Williams
01-05-2019, 11:26 PM
This is just a 'general' description of different 'engraving/cutting' style lasers as I understand them in very layman terms ;)

Trotec, Universal, Epilog, Gravograph, GCC, and many other 'western' lasers use RF lasers- RF *I believe* refers to 'radio frequency' controlled firing. They're typically referred to as 'metal' tubes because they're encased in a metal housing, which allows for heat-sink air cooling (up to 80-100 watts or so)... however, some Trotec tubes are encased in ceramic, otherwise the tube operation is essentially the same. RF lasers fire extremely fast, and are easily capable of firing (I've read) over 1 million times per second. This allows them to fire in pulses along the X-axis path, typically between 300 and 500 pulses (dots) per inch, and this is regardless of speed. This rapid firing means that (usually) every fired pulse is identical to the previous one, which means an RF tube is capable of producing very high detail at extremely high speeds. Also, RF lasers automatically compensate for power reductions when the gantry is slowing down and re-accelerating when changing directions when rastering and vector cutting. There are usually settings 'tweaks' available to the user, but for the most part, RF lasers require very little user interaction aside from the basic speed/power/resolution settings...

Most Chinese lasers use DC fired lasers, DC referring to 'direct current'. DC lasers are almost always encased in glass, which also includes a water jacket to allow for water cooling the tube. This means a water pump/chiller is needed. Smaller wattage machines can get by with simple radiator-type cooling, but in most cases a refrigerated cooler is preferred and advised. Contrary to RF lasers, DC lasers fire relatively slowly. My personal comparison definition: RF lasers are to LED lights as DC lasers are to incandescent lights ;) -- And, as I understand it, DC lasers do not fire in pulses, they just plain fire, they're either off or on. Because of their slow-firing nature, raster engraving speeds are severely limited, most DC machines max speeds are usually between 500 and 800mm per second. Trotec and Gravograph (at least) build RF machines that can run 5x that fast, or more. Whereas a DC tube is speed-limited due to its firing speed, RF lasers are limited (in practical use) by the mechanicals moving the laser head! And while RF lasers 'auto' compensate for slowdown/accel when rastering, DC machines don't- They compensate strictly by 'overrun', extra travel beyond the actual left and right edges of the engraving. DC lasers DO compensate for what they call 'corner power' when cutting, to reduce over-burn during direction changes. However, it's not a purely automatic function, in many/most cases the user must choose his own corner power settings.

Short version, running an RF laser is like driving a BMW, running a DC laser is like driving a Peterbilt ;)

My opinion: As nice as RF lasers are to have and run, when it comes to cutting thru organic materials, for the money, DC/glass lasers work very well :)






.

Gary Hair
01-06-2019, 8:28 AM
Yes, that's exactly what they are - a $3,000 laser rebranded and sold for $30,000...


Are Trotec Laser just rebranded and modified Chinese lasers?

Kev Williams
01-06-2019, 12:20 PM
glad I wasn't drinking coffee...

Gary Hair
01-06-2019, 1:12 PM
They say there is no such thing as a stupid question, but sometimes the limits are pushed as far as you can possibly imagine.

Bill George
01-07-2019, 5:43 PM
30 seconds and a Google search would have answered that question.

Art Mann
01-07-2019, 9:26 PM
Good or bad, the same can be said for about 75% of all questions asked on Sawmill Creek.


30 seconds and a Google search would have answered that question.

Bert Kemp
01-08-2019, 1:03 AM
Are Trotec Laser just rebranded and modified Chinese lasers?

have you done any research at all???????????????

Kev Williams
01-08-2019, 3:25 AM
geez, go easy guys, that's what he's doing here-- and FWIW, me personally, the absolute LAST thing I will EVER do if I'm looking for information on an internet forum is 'do a search'....internet search forums are for finding where something is you already know about, not basic research...

The whole stinkin' purpose of internet forums is the personal/human element... If you don't want that, google is the only bookmark you'll ever need... whoop de doo http://www.engraver1.com/gifs/thumbdown.gif

Rich Harman
01-12-2019, 4:12 PM
If you will not be making a steady income, go with an 80W Chinese machine with a fat body tube (like Reci) and a Ruida controller*.

Seven years now and my original 80W Reci is still going strong. The engraving quality is on par with the western machines, but slower. Cutting is just as good as the western machines and just as fast.

If you've got the money (quite a bit of it), Trotec would be my first choice.

Another difference between the cheap Chinese machines and the western ones like Epilog and Trotec is that the latter us encoder strips on the axis. That means that the position of the laser head is precisely tracked in real time.

Cheap machines use steppers with no encoders**, that means that the motors turn "blindly" a certain amount and the laser head is expected to be in the right location via the belts and pulleys. It works and it works very well, but the ultimate precision is a little less than the western machines - which is irrelevant for 99% of users.

*You would want a Ruida controller so that you can use LightBurn

**Even the steppers that do have encoders are not much of an improvement (if at all) since the encoder is on the motor itself and does not track the laser head like the western machines do. You will still have the inaccuracies introduced by the belts and pulleys. The encoder strips of the western machines are superior.

Bill Carruthers
01-13-2019, 1:29 AM
Couldn't agree more Rich - an experienced voice of sanity!!

Jerome Stanek
01-13-2019, 8:04 AM
If you will not be making a steady income, go with an 80W Chinese machine with a fat body tube (like Reci) and a Ruida controller*.

Seven years now and my original 80W Reci is still going strong. The engraving quality is on par with the western machines, but slower. Cutting is just as good as the western machines and just as fast.

If you've got the money (quite a bit of it), Trotec would be my first choice.

Another difference between the cheap Chinese machines and the western ones like Epilog and Trotec is that the latter us encoder strips on the axis. That means that the position of the laser head is precisely tracked in real time.

Cheap machines use steppers with no encoders**, that means that the motors turn "blindly" a certain amount and the laser head is expected to be in the right location via the belts and pulleys. It works and it works very well, but the ultimate precision is a little less than the western machines - which is irrelevant for 99% of users.

*You would want a Ruida controller so that you can use LightBurn

**Even the steppers that do have encoders are not much of an improvement (if at all) since the encoder is on the motor itself and does not track the laser head like the western machines do. You will still have the inaccuracies introduced by the belts and pulleys. The encoder strips of the western machines are superior.

For the kind of work I do with my laser I tried Lightburn and find that it doesn't do anything better then Laserworks. I just use it to cut and I get my files in a DXF format from the companies I work for.

Jason Ramey
01-14-2019, 9:33 PM
I have two Boss Lasers, a 20x16 60 watt and a 24x36 -100 watt machine . They have been amazing machines so far. The 100 watt will cut 1 1/4 thick pine with a 4” lens, not that I do this all the time , but it will do if needed. The support from Boss has been top notch. I have only needed them for basic questions but they are quick to respond .

Edward Henry
12-07-2019, 3:54 PM
Sorry for showing my ignorance with my questions, and thank you for the replies. I do not know why I asked so stupid a question.

Bert Kemp
12-08-2019, 3:25 AM
Sorry for showing my ignorance with my questions, and thank you for the replies. I do not know why I asked so stupid a question.


yikes almost a year to get back here LOL