Setting up a new woodworking shop - have some questions

[Marcus Waddell]

Hi all,
Love the support here. I am not new to DIY stuff, but I am (relatively) new to woodworking. I am about to get to setting up shop and have some questions.

1. Dust Extraction:
Working with my Dad for a lot of years the idea of dust extraction was nearly non-existent. Simply using a Craftsman Wet/Dry vac to clean up after was all we did. I'd like to do better than that of course! At least initially will not be able to afford a full on dust extraction/collection system, so I figured I'd do a dust cyclone and a vacuum. My question is this: Will a decent wet/dry vac (like a Ridgid 6HP/14 Gallon) coupled with a dust cyclone (like the Dust Deputy) work or do I really need to spring for one of the fancy dust extraction vacuums (like the Festool, Fein or Makita ones)?

2. Track Saw
Having used a circular saw for a number of years, I have found this out....I cannot cut a straight line to save my life (even with a straight edge clamped to the work piece). So...a track saw is in order for breaking down sheet goods and cutting off ends of uneven glue ups. Two questions: A. How often does one cut something deeper than 2-1/8"? and B. For the hobbyist who does not mind spending a bit extra for good quality tools, is there really that much difference between the Makita SP6000J and the Festool TS55?

3. Router Table
Have seen quite a lot of videos on YouTube, I think it's best if I create my own router table top and use a router lift. The question: I'm seriously considering an Incra fence for this table. Is that overkill? How often do you really need repeatable router table cuts?

4. Table Saw
My Dad is going to give me his Early 90s era Delta contractor table saw. I have a lot of questions on this. I do intend on putting an Incra TS-LS 32 table saw fence on it.
A. Is 1.75 HP enough for making most types of cabinetry?
B. Since it's only 1.75HP, should I use a thin-kerf saw blade (thinking of the Ridge Carbide TS2000 Ultra 3/32" ATB 48 Tooth combo blade)
C. Is it worth it to make a splitter since this doesn't have a riving knife?
D. Is it worth it to get one of those segmented motor belts?
E. It's a right tilt arbor, I see that a lot of saws are left tilt, does that really make any difference?

5. Jointer/Planer
Which one do I need first? For the planer, pretty much settled on the DeWalt DW735x, but which reasonably priced jointer should I look for?

6. Spindle/Disk sander
Anyone have some recommendations for these?

7. Band Saw
What sort of things should I look for in a mid-level band saw? Any recommendations?

[Erik Loza]

What’s your budget for all this? That’s the most important question between “fantasy list” and reality.

Erik

[Mike Cutler]

Nice to meet you Marcus. I'll try and give you some answers as a place to start.



Hi all,
Love the support here. I am not new to DIY stuff, but I am (relatively) new to woodworking. I am about to get to setting up shop and have some questions.

1. Dust Extraction:
Working with my Dad for a lot of years the idea of dust extraction was nearly non-existent. Simply using a Craftsman Wet/Dry vac to clean up after was all we did. I'd like to do better than that of course! At least initially will not be able to afford a full on dust extraction/collection system, so I figured I'd do a dust cyclone and a vacuum. My question is this: Will a decent wet/dry vac (like a Ridgid 6HP/14 Gallon) coupled with a dust cyclone (like the Dust Deputy) work or do I really need to spring for one of the fancy dust extraction vacuums (like the Festool, Fein or Makita ones)?

If you're going to stick with a vacuum, until you can get a stand alone DC unit, then no, there isn't much difference if you are planning to put a separator in between the vacuum and the pickup. Rigid has come a long way with their vacuums in the past 10 years.

2. Track Saw
Having used a circular saw for a number of years, I have found this out....I cannot cut a straight line to save my life (even with a straight edge clamped to the work piece). So...a track saw is in order for breaking down sheet goods and cutting off ends of uneven glue ups. Two questions: A. How often does one cut something deeper than 2-1/8"? and B. For the hobbyist who does not mind spending a bit extra for good quality tools, is there really that much difference between the Makita SP6000J and the Festool TS55?

A.-Not often, and it takes a very powerful saw to do it in solid lumber.
B.- I don't know anything about the Makita, but they have been very well received here on the forum. I have the Festool TS75, a step bigger than the TS55, and it does what it supposed to do, but it's $$$$. Festool's big sales hook is dust collectin and system integration. If the Makita has sufficient dust collection capability, then it seems like it should be a comparable alternative to the TS55

3. Router Table
Have seen quite a lot of videos on YouTube, I think it's best if I create my own router table top and use a router lift. The question: I'm seriously considering an Incra fence for this table. Is that overkill? How often do you really need repeatable router table cuts?

Incra is not overkill. They make really nice stuff. Repeatable cuts on a router are paramount to success. You always need the router to be predictable and repeatable, every time.

4. Table Saw
My Dad is going to give me his Early 90s era Delta contractor table saw. I have a lot of questions on this. I do intend on putting an Incra TS-LS 32 table saw fence on it.
A. Is 1.75 HP enough for making most types of cabinetry? Absolutely.
B. Since it's only 1.75HP, should I use a thin-kerf saw blade (thinking of the Ridge Carbide TS2000 Ultra 3/32" ATB 48 Tooth combo blade) Not unless you feel the need. My two table saws are 1-1/2HP and 2HP, both can run full kerf blades.
C. Is it worth it to make a splitter since this doesn't have a riving knife?Definitely!!and there are many aftermarket alternatives available also.
D. Is it worth it to get one of those segmented motor belts?Yes, if you have vibration issues, they can quiet things down substantially.
E. It's a right tilt arbor, I see that a lot of saws are left tilt, does that really make any difference?No, not really. I have both and don't see any distinct advantage either way.

5. Jointer/Planer
Which one do I need first? For the planer, pretty much settled on the DeWalt DW735x, but which reasonably priced jointer should I look for?A jointing sled can be made for a planer allowing it to perform both functions. You will still need a way to joint the edge, such as the track saw you asked about earlier.
If you're going to invest in a jointer, get an 8" minimum. A 6" jointer is very limiting, I have one, and they do not resell for very much used when you finally get a bigger one. You'll get more money back, and a quicker resell, with an 8" jointer.

6. Spindle/Disk sander
Anyone have some recommendations for these?

7. Band Saw
What sort of things should I look for in a mid-level band saw? Any recommendations? Very subjective question. I would say start out with some type of 14" band saw, and you'll find your way soon enough. Band saw discussions can go on forever

[johnny means]

For beginner dust collection I'd recommend a small dust collector. I started with a Delta Shopmaster DC. It was good enough to keep up with my 20" J/P as long as I kept the hose really short. I rolled it around to whatever machine I was working on and was happy with the results. Ofcourse, it needed to be emptied often. Vacuums just don't move enough volume for most stationary machines.

[Bryan Cramer]

Check out Grizzly tools. For a hobbiest they are plenty good. It’s the minor things like flimsy switches and cords, poor fit and finish, leaks, and plastic knobs that separate them from other brands. If that doesn’t bother you the functionality is just fine.

Maybe think about skipping the separate jointer planer and go with a combo. You’d still have a 12” planer but gain a 12” jointer.

A shop vac with separator would be good enough for you now but adding a planer you’d need to step up.

By the way #6 Grizzly makes just the thing a 12” disc sander and spindle sander combo. Metal is better than plastic that the bench top ones are made of.

[Ralph Okonieski]

The Harbor Freight 2hp dust collector seems to be one of their “jewels”. I own one and have been happy with it. It is $210 regular but you should be able to easily find a 20% off coupon making it quite reasonable. I added the Thien baffle to it.

Www dot jpthien dot com

[Marcus Waddell]

It really does depend. I have some $$ already set aside for the Table Saw fence and Router Table. I already have a router and will likely also get my Dad's Band Saw and Drill Press. So it's a matter of what is really the best tool for the job at a reasonable budget (all my tools can't start off as Festools. ) :)

[Dan Baginski]

I got so sick of dealing with dust and my little shop vac. I had no dust collection at the tool, I would just sweep it all up later. I upgraded to a jet dust collector and set up some overhead piping with 4” pvc, flexible hoses and connections. So much nicer and less clean up later. It makes being in the shop more enjoyable, IMO.

[Nick Lazz]

I'll try to be brief.
1. When I built my shop I purchased a ClearVu cyclone. That may have been my best purchase to date. If you are getting serious about woodworking, dust collection cannot be overlooked. A wet/dry vac simply will not do. Most experts agree hobbyist woodworkers have more lung type issues due to dust than professional shops. Why? Because many do not collect fine particulate. Vaccuum systems are inefficient and get less and less efficient as soon as they start to pick up dust. A cyclone is the only serious way to truly collect dust....but a decent vacuum system will be better than a shop vac.

2. Save your money and get the Makita. There will be a lot of opinions on this and I own Festool tools...I am sure the Festool track saw is better but the Makita is a fine machine and I absolutely love mine. Use the saved cash towards your dust collection and get the Makita.

3. Depends on who you ask I guess...I've built two tables and have never needed a mico adjuster on my fence. It is simple to repeat cuts and reposition fence as long as it is square and is a two piece fence that you can adjust in and out toward the bit. Overkill IMO. Woodpecker has a decent fence that was reasonable when I bought mine.

4. More Horsepower is always going to be better IMO, but you dont have to spend a lot of money for a decent saw. A riving knife is nice to have. I prefer left tilt saws because the blade tips away from the fence and reduces the chance of kickback on angled cuts. I will say, angled cuts in my shop are overrated though...I simply dont use the table saw in that way very much...but when I do, I am glad it tilts to the left. I own a Grizzly cabinet saw. It has the Leeson motor (USA) I've never changed the belt..it has a nice big flat table with large cast iron extension wings. Those features along with the riving knife and HP make it do everything I've needed it to do. It was a good purchase.

5. You need a good jointer IMO. The smallest I would ever settle for is an 8". Why? Anything smaller just doesn't have the capacity for most of my face jointing applications, the beds are usually not long enough on a 6" jointer and as small as they are, they don't have enough weight to do any large material...they're easy to push around.
The 8" jointers (grizzly has one..I'm not pushing them just if you're budget conscious) have longer beds which is important. The jointer IMO is one of the most important machines in the wood shop.

6. No recommendation here.

7. Loaded question. I bought mine not knowing what I was going to use it for. Turns out, most of my work on a bandsaw is resawing. If that is your case, I would look for a 16" machine. Most of the 14" are small saws...I have a Laguna 14 SE which is a full size bandsaw and nothing like the 14" Deltas or PMs of old. If I did it over I would get a 16" machine. If you are doing smaller projects the Delta 14" and the like would be fine. Many use those in bigger shops for bigger projects and can operate them better than I can mine, but I mostly just resaw.

Last - wire every machine you can to 220v. And wire your shop accordingly.

[liam c murphy]

My 2 cents.

1-A seperator is reasonable. But, I’d hold off on a high end vacuum for a while. A larger dust collection system is a different story.
2-I like my TS 75. I’m sure other brands work just as well.
3- I went without a router lift for close to 10 years. I recently got one, and I love it. It makes height adjustments much easier. I don’t have any firsthand experience with the Incra router fence. I think they’re attractive, but not necessary for everyone. I’d like to own one, but you don’t need one to get started. I’d argue that it’s best to start with a simple table set up and add accessories as your work requires it. Then again, I have 3 router tables. So, don’t listen to me.

4-I’d skip the Incra fence until you’re sure you have the saw that you want a long term relationship with. I started with a 1.75 HP Sawstop PCS. I was happy, but not content. I upgraded to a 3HP motor. I don’t have any complaints, but would gladly upgrade to a 5 HP.

A- You should be able to build cabinets with the 1.75HP motor. You might wish for a more powerful motor, but the one you have is fine for getting started. I think other features of the saw will have a greater impact on your ability to build cabinets than just the size of the motor. You’ll want some kind of sliding table or cross cut sled for wider cross cuts. I’m not familiar with your specific saw. I can’t advise suitable accessories in this category. Generally speaking, a saw with more surface area will make this easier.

B- Individual preference.
C- Yes.
D-It depends on the condition of the current belt. If it’s in good shape, it’s not necessary.

5-I started with a 6” jointer from Craigslist and a 735X. I later upgraded to a 16” jointer, and 20” planer. My experience with the 735X was positive.

6- I’d forgo this type of tool and redirect funds to table saw, jointer, or bandsaw. If you need one further down the road, you’ll know for sure.

[Bernie May]

Working in a woodshop without a dust monitor is going to shorten the life of your lungs. Spend $200 on a Dylos DC1100 Standard Laser Air Quality Monitor

[Bill Dufour]

easiest way to run a dust collector is to run the exhaust outside and use no filter to get plugged up. Is it cold enough in Scotland to worry about lost heat from the shop? Or will you only work on warmer days.
Bil lD

[Terry Therneau]

"The nice thing about standards is that you have so many to choose from." A. Tannenbaum
Opinions will have the same fluidity, but I'll add my own.

1. I have a full dust system and really like it, but for some tools more than others: the radial arm saw was my worst dust generator, the band saw one of the least. I got a used system so spent a lot less than many ($850 for 5HP Oneida cyclone and all the piping). I would concur with the Harbor Freight recommendation for those tools that need more airflow (table saw) or can generate a lot of product (planer), and a shop vac + separator for things like a random orbital sander.

2. I have the EZ track saw system. Even that cheaper alternative is a huge positive. Now that I understand how useful a track saw is, If doing it again I'd likely step up to the Makita.

3. I have an Incra fence for the router table. It's big benefits is that it is easy to move away and then back to the original setting. To get a clean edge on nearly anything I start by taking a medium bite, then smaller, then that last 1mm to the finish (I have the metric scaled one); sneaking up really helps prevent chip out. If I were organized enough that I never had to go back and do just one more piece this wouldn't be such a big deal, but that hasn't happened yet. The issue seems to come up a lot less on the table saw.

4. I have a 1940's Unisaw with a 1HP motor. I rarely bog it down unless a board starts to close back up on the blade (or I was too hurried to put the proper blade on for a rip of thick lumber). When a board does close up I like the fact that I'm stronger than the motor so that it stalls rather than throwing a board across the shop.

5. A 6" jointer works most of the time, since I am mostly jointing edges. I have an older Yates 6" which takes up little space, along with a combo jointer/planer. It's nice not to have to switch the latter as often.

6. If you can get an edge sander (watch Craigslist) you will use it 10 times for each use of the spindle or disk. I had heard the adage that an edge sander is "one of the last tools you'll buy, but one of the last you will sell". It's true.

7. Bandsaw: it really depends on what you will be doing. I went many years with a Walker-Turner 14" and it served me well. I now have a larger one too (26" Moak) and only a few task would be done equally well on both. This is a case where more thought on exactly what you will be doing is important.

Last note. You say "I am not new to DYI stuff". It's not for everyone, but most of my larger tools were purchased used. Most got new bearings and not much else (a coat of paint for some). If you enjoy that part of the process (and I did) you can get a lot of machine for the money. I won't argue about whether my older cast iron is more or less functional than newer stuff, but I almost certainly have the edge in tonnage :-) I go both ways wrt utility: I love the Unisaw and Ekstrom-Carlson edge sander, for instance. The Solem planer was built like a tank and gave a good finish, but setting knives in it was a royal PITA: I sold it and now have a Minimax with tersa blades.

[Marcus Waddell]

Last - wire every machine you can to 220v. And wire your shop accordingly.

Why should I do that?

[Nick Lazz]

Your machines will run more efficiently and it will save you money.

[Mike Cutler]

Your machines will run more efficiently and it will save you money.

Nick

I'm sorry, but I have disagree with this statement, as it applies to real world application. In a lab, and on paper, it has merit. To actually quantify the difference is so small, that it wouldn't be apparent to a user.
Motor efficiency is motor efficiency, it doesn't change with voltage. The amount of power required for a motor to perform a given task is equal regardless of voltage. As are the losses. It's just how it flows, that makes the difference. Add the current in both legs of 240 motor,and it will equal the same current in the single leg of a 120vac powered motor, all things being equal, for a given task. Power is power.
A motor running on 120vac, versus 240 vac, will require the same amount of power in watts, for the same given task.

The most compelling argument for wiring a shop for 240vac, is that it will facilitate future growth. 120vac powered motors stop at 2 HP, generally. 3 HP and up will require 240. As a person keeps up with this craft, they will naturally gravitate toward bigger, more powerful, pieces of equipment. A dust collector being principle.

Once again, I'm not trying to be argumentative, but the cost to rewire a shop for 240vac would never be realized back in the theoretical efficiency difference between a 120vac, versus, 240vac, motor.

[Nick Lazz]

Nick

I'm sorry, but I have disagree with this statement, as it applies to real world application. In a lab, and on paper, it has merit. To actually quantify the difference is so small, that it wouldn't be apparent to a user.
Motor efficiency is motor efficiency, it doesn't change with voltage. The amount of power required for a motor to perform a given task is equal regardless of voltage. As are the losses. It's just how it flows, that makes the difference. Add the current in both legs of 240 motor,and it will equal the same current in the single leg of a 120vac powered motor, all things being equal, for a given task. Power is power.
A motor running on 120vac, versus 240 vac, will require the same amount of power in watts, for the same given task.

The most compelling argument for wiring a shop for 240vac, is that it will facilitate future growth. 120vac powered motors stop at 2 HP, generally. 3 HP and up will require 240. As a person keeps up with this craft, they will naturally gravitate toward bigger, more powerful, pieces of equipment. A dust collector being principle.

Once again, I'm not trying to be argumentative, but the cost to rewire a shop for 240vac would never be realized back in the theoretical efficiency difference between a 120vac, versus, 240vac, motor.

No offense taken, it's a good discussion. Maybe my point was missed or I used the wrong words. You will draw less amps using 240 vs 120. This makes operating them more efficent, not the motor. However, It will come up to speed faster and maintain it's power better using 240v. This would be noticed when ripping 8/4 hardwood but not necessarily with smaller dimensional materials.
Here is an example I found that explains it a little better than I did:

With 240V, you will have a little more torque, and it will come up to speed a bit faster, but the biggest advantage is less line loss and voltage drop. A motor running at 240V will consume half of the amps that it will draw while running on 120V. We pay for electricity by the kilowatt hour (KW/hr.) so if we consider a motor that draws 16A on120V, this is 1920 watts. (Volts x amps = watts). The same motor on 240V draws 8 amps, for the same total of 1920 watts (neglecting power factor, a little more technical than we are going to get here). However, the difference is in line drop (volts lost) and line loss (power lost) in the conductors.This motor running at 120V will have twice the amount of line drop (amps x resistance of the wire = volts) because it is drawing twice the current, and it will experience four times the line loss (power in watts), because amps(2) x resistance of the wire = watts. This is wasted power that is lost in the form of heat. The longer the wire, the more significant these losses become.

I'm not suggesting rewiring the shop, and I apologize for siderailing the thread, but I maintain running your larger tools 240 vs 120 is still better.

[Marcus Waddell]

No offense taken, it's a good discussion. Maybe my point was missed or I used the wrong words. You will draw less amps using 240 vs 120. This makes operating them more efficent, not the motor. However, It will come up to speed faster and maintain it's power better using 240v. This would be noticed when ripping 8/4 hardwood but not necessarily with smaller dimensional materials.
Here is an example I found that explains it a little better than I did:

With 240V, you will have a little more torque, and it will come up to speed a bit faster, but the biggest advantage is less line loss and voltage drop. A motor running at 240V will consume half of the amps that it will draw while running on 120V. We pay for electricity by the kilowatt hour (KW/hr.) so if we consider a motor that draws 16A on120V, this is 1920 watts. (Volts x amps = watts). The same motor on 240V draws 8 amps, for the same total of 1920 watts (neglecting power factor, a little more technical than we are going to get here). However, the difference is in line drop (volts lost) and line loss (power lost) in the conductors.This motor running at 120V will have twice the amount of line drop (amps x resistance of the wire = volts) because it is drawing twice the current, and it will experience four times the line loss (power in watts), because amps(2) x resistance of the wire = watts. This is wasted power that is lost in the form of heat. The longer the wire, the more significant these losses become.

I'm not suggesting rewiring the shop, and I apologize for siderailing the thread, but I maintain running your larger tools 240 vs 120 is still better.

Since I have to wire my shop up in the first place, I'll consider adding 240VAC to the mix. :) Thanks for the input y'all.

[Peter Christensen]

Working in a woodshop without a dust monitor is going to shorten the life of your lungs. Spend $200 on a Dylos DC1100 Standard Laser Air Quality Monitor



Or for about $50US you can get one about the size of a pack of smokes that does the same except for recording the data to export later. Or get both. :)

https://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=Household+PM2.5+Detector+Module+Air+Quality+D ust+Sensor+TFT+LCD+Display+Monitor&_sacat=0

[Mike Kees]

Marcus just curious,does the contractor saw have a Unifence on it now ? It is a tough thing to put together a decent shop. If one buys only the machines they want to keep forever it is impossible to afford. At the same time real cheap stuff is junk,finding a happy medium is the trick. I would use the bandsaw and drill press from your dad. You have a tablesaw. My advice would be to buy a planer now and wait for a used 8'' jointer. The reason is a six inch will only satisfy you for a couple years and then you will outgrow it.You already have a great start with the stuff from your dad. Also I used a router table for years that I built,without a lift. They still work real well ,just not as easy to adjust. good luck ,Mike.

[Frank Pratt]

No offense taken, it's a good discussion. Maybe my point was missed or I used the wrong words. You will draw less amps using 240 vs 120. This makes operating them more efficent, not the motor. However, It will come up to speed faster and maintain it's power better using 240v. This would be noticed when ripping 8/4 hardwood but not necessarily with smaller dimensional materials.
Here is an example I found that explains it a little better than I did:

With 240V, you will have a little more torque, and it will come up to speed a bit faster, but the biggest advantage is less line loss and voltage drop. A motor running at 240V will consume half of the amps that it will draw while running on 120V. We pay for electricity by the kilowatt hour (KW/hr.) so if we consider a motor that draws 16A on120V, this is 1920 watts. (Volts x amps = watts). The same motor on 240V draws 8 amps, for the same total of 1920 watts (neglecting power factor, a little more technical than we are going to get here). However, the difference is in line drop (volts lost) and line loss (power lost) in the conductors.This motor running at 120V will have twice the amount of line drop (amps x resistance of the wire = volts) because it is drawing twice the current, and it will experience four times the line loss (power in watts), because amps(2) x resistance of the wire = watts. This is wasted power that is lost in the form of heat. The longer the wire, the more significant these losses become.

I'm not suggesting rewiring the shop, and I apologize for siderailing the thread, but I maintain running your larger tools 240 vs 120 is still better.

Sorry Nick, I'm going to have to join Mike in ganging up on you here. There is no difference in efficiency or power usage whether you are operating a machine at 120V or 240V. The motor will have exactly the same torque & come up to speed the same with either voltage. This is providing the outlet is wired to code.

The only time 240V will give you an advantage is if the load is a long way from the panel. Then 240V will have less issues with voltage drop & you won't have to increase wire size as much as you would with 120V.

Again, assuming the circuit is installed per code, increased power losses associated with running 120V vs 240V are barely measurable & wouldn't amount to more that pennies per year. Of course I'm talking home hobby shop & not a commercial shop with 100s of feet to the panel.

After saying all that, I too run all my machines over 1 HP that I can on 240V. But that's just because I like it that way.

[Jim Becker]

There have been a few saws over the years that were dual voltage where the 240v configuration had windings adjusted to provide slightly higher horsepower at the higher voltage, but that was by design. Unless a machine has a specific setup like that, what Frank says is absolutely true...there is no advantage on these small motors to run on the higher voltage other than personal preference.

[Brad Barnhart]

Howdy Mr. Marcus, & welcome to the forum, Sir.

To be very honest with you, I concur with what Mike said in his post.

You have an excellent start on the more expensive tools from your Dad. Pick it up & run with it! Once you've made the decision of how you want your new shop set up, then begin your tool fancification.

When my bride & I started puttin' our meager little shop together 25 years ago, we purchased our bigger tools used from a contractor's estate. They had been SEVERELY abused. We spent several hours workin' on them to get them up to a useable state while learnin' how to use them, and what they were used for. But, all those hours of work and cleaning paid off. Bein' an ol' OTR truck driver my whole life, I had NEVER been around such tools, nor had use for them.

We are just now beginnin' to replace them saws. And I'm guessin' they are in upwards of 30 years old. And we didn't make all them fancy updates to a nary one of them, either.

I do agree with what has been mentioned about dust control. Every shop, if at all possible, should have the best dust control possible.

As far as the fence for your router, imo, it's not overkill, but pricey. I think the question I would ask myself were I in your boots would be "what is more useful to the shop? A bandsaw, better fence for the table saw, or?"

To be honest, fwiw, I would bypass the track saw and if it is such a necessity in your shop, create your own and put those extra dollar bills towards new wiring or something else. I have, personally, never seen the use for the track saw.

As also mentioned, once ya start building your relationship with your individual tools, you will, in time, figure out what other complimentary tools you'll need to improve the working tools you now have.

Nearly all of our tools have some years on them, but trust me, they all run, work and look as close to new as possible, and are kept in that condition. If you look after your tools, and take care of them, they will look after you and all your needs.

Best of luck to you, Sir!

[Van Huskey]

By the way #6 Grizzly makes just the thing a 12” disc sander and spindle sander combo. Metal is better than plastic that the bench top ones are made of.

One thing to be aware of is the G0529 has a polyurethane helical gear on the spindle sander, which is part of the reason it is inexpensive. To use a proper metal gear you need to have an oil bath which is what all the better spindle sanders have. Just something to be aware of.


To the OP, while you have gotten lots of good advice a way to get more is break up the questions into individual threads, they are free you know. :) Given this is still the internet people often avoid threads where it takes a book to even begin to answer all the individual questions. Also, try to give some realistic budgets. For example, bandsaw threads are why I wake up in the morning and when I see mid-level bandsaw I think $2-3K if bought new. Looking at the rest of the post we may not see that the same way.

I am also in the 240v makes no tangible difference over 120v on dual voltage motors unless it is an oddball that the high voltage wiring is designed to produce more hp. However, having a shop wired with plenty of 240v circuits is a no-brainer if feasible since 120v is limited to roughly 1.75hp on induction motors.

[Dennis McCullen]

If I missed something, I pre-apologize, but I did not see more than a very inexpensive table saw that you will get from your dad. Some replies listed "tools from your dad" (plural). Consider it worth $100-150 and compare that to the cost of your wish list. In my opinion, you have a weak start. It is good for cutting but not for dust collection. If space is unlimited ( I don't see that all-important parameter mentioned), keep it around set up for dadoes. I'll offer some alternative ideas; not what I did but what I'd if I were starting now with the experience I have. Not in your order of ?? but here's my opinion/ ramblings.

A The table saw (T.S.) is at the heart of every woodworking shop with the exception of extreme Neanderthal (hand tools only). All the "goodies' you list are good goals, but at the root of a shop is a good T.S. with very good dust collection. Start with a good cabinet saw and a good enough dust collector D.C. (Harbor Freight). Build a good trash can separator for the D.C. Now you have a heart!

B. The DeWalt planer you've picked is an excellent choice and IMO, a planer is necessary.

C. Jointing can be done in a variety of ways including but not limited to a sled on a table saw with a very good blade (even a glue line blade), or with a router free-handed with an excellent straight edge. I have a neighbor that built furniture and used a large 3hp router with sheet metal straight edges clamped to the wood for jointing instead of a good jointer he had sitting in the shop.

D. Always consider your available space and think of putting all big tools on mobile bases but buy as few stationary tools as necessary starting out. Your path will designate the order to buy them.

E. I agree with others that a band saw (I wish I had a 17" min.) is a great tool, but will you be working in hardwood and veneers? I see more interest in "sheet goods" and the mention of cabinetry rather than fine solid hardwood furniture. Decent 14" band saws are available used particularly from the guys upgrading. If you will only be cutting curves for a while, settle on less. You can recoup most of this investment if/when you find the need for the 17" band saw. There's a LOT that can be done on a good band saw.

F. A router table - Not hard to build. I came across a "like new" one (actually never used) with a Triton router that is adjustable from above the table. No need for a separate lift, just a small hole in the router mounting plate. Routers are a bit like clamps and it's hard to have too many. I built my home and all the cabinetry with a 1980s Craftsman radial arm saw and table saw; after buying a table for my first router, I quickly bought another router just like the first one. Without all the mass of a large stationary tool, routers are relatively inexpensive and very versatile. In addition to the one assigned to the table, get a router kit with fixed and plunge bases and make sure it comes with a straight edge guide and all the bushings. As you progress and advance, you'll probably buy a compact router also. The one for the table should be 2-1/4 hp or greater.

G. Track saw - the pros love 'em, particularly those on the go. If you cannot cut a straight line with a good straight edge clamped to a workpiece, excuse me but you need practice! I strongly suggest you consider the set up of the cut. I use four identical saw horses and take special care they are level. You never want your off cut to be at a greater elevation or the saw will catch and kick back. Your reach is important and relative to the height of the sawhorses; you need stability in your stance and relative comfort. Furthermore, consider that breaking down sheet goods is the first cut and the second cut of smaller ply is on the table saw with a great set up of infeed and outfeed support. How many sheets can you spare an extra 1/4" of material from to perfect the edge cut before you buy that track saw. Folks on the go love 'em - because they do not have that large table saw handy. I'd simply move that one further down the wish list. Build a good assembly/outfeed table to go behind the table saw; it will be great for practice and make sure the finished height is about 1/8" less than the table saw.

H. Spindle/ disk sander - I bought a used one and found the Harbor Freight one to be the same unit wearing other badges. Since I have it on a shelf, I use my drum sanders in my drill press for quick jobs and get out the spindle sander for larger curved sanding. Again, consider how much curved work will be done and use fine-toothed blades on the bandsaw to reduce how much sanding is needed. Bandsaw dust collection has been considered in recent years of manufacturing - keep that in mind if you buy a used one since fine-toothed blades produce fine dust.

I. Incidentals, blades and bits. One can spend a lot of money here. I have bought router bit sets with very good reputations, but are imports - do your research or buy the really good domestic ones as needed. I bought a few domestic and expensive bits for jobs that I knew demanded a lot of use. I'm a long way from woodworking retail and do not like to wait for shipping when I'm into a project. So your disposition and location may govern where you end up in all of this. Buy good blades and take the time to switch out for a rip blade, a fine crosscut, or a combination blade when you can get away with it. Investigate hold downs and featherboards - what you can make and what you should buy. Consider making things for the shop as practice and always go through a check up on the accuracy of the tool you are about to use and the effectiveness of the set up. BTW, I leave good quality ear muffs hanging in the two main areas of my shop where they are not more than a few steps away. Safety First!

J. Last of my random thoughts - As important as dust collection is for keeping a clean and safe shop, it is a freakin' nightmare in practical application. Be patient, willing to improvise, and even keep notebook on your varying designs. I have a variety of vacuum cleaner hoses (2 shop vacs) and some smaller hose left from a house vac, in addition to some pool pump hose. Different hand sanders require different set ups and it's nice not to re-create something you used a couple months ago. Just refer to your notes about how hose A connects to hose B to a 2-1/2" shop vac for this random orbital sander.


Opinions vary greatly on what tools to invest in, but I would start with a dust-collection friendly table saw, a couple routers, a planer, and get some practice with those to find your direction.

[Kelby Van Patten]

Lots of good advice already. I'll add:

1. I think you are underestimating the value and importance of good dust collection. Apart from the health issues (which are very real), having a dust-free shop will make you want to be in the shop more because it will be more enjoyable. No vacuum -- even a festool -- can provide the airflow you need for your tablesaw, planer, jointer, and bandsaw. At a minimum, get the Harbor Freight with a cyclone separator and run 6" ductwork (not just spiral hose) to the tools. Use the static pressure calculator on Bill Pentz's website to help you design the most efficient system you can. The Harbor Freight's airflow at the tool will be far less than Pentz's calculator will recommend, but the calculator will help you get the most you can from the Harbor Freight, and it will be far better than the vacuum will provide. Bill Pentz's site has lots of great information.

2. If you can make the dollars work, skip the tracksaw and the Incra TS-LS 32, sell the Delta contractor saw, and with that money and a few dollars more, you should be able to find a used Unisaw and couple it with a Bissemeyer fence. Then look at some of the many good articles out there on modding the old Unisaw for good dust collection. A Unisaw with a Bissemeyer will be far more useful to you than the contractor saw/tracksaw combination. (If you can swing the money for a Sawstop cabinet saw, that would be even better, but that's probably beyond your budget.) A good tablesaw setup is the most important tool in the shop, by far.

3. On a jointer: Jointers are very useful. Yes, you can finagle your planer and tablesaw to give you a similar result, but it's a pain in the neck. You can find a used 6" jointer very cheap and it will prove a great addition to your shop. If you are just making cabinets for now, then a 6" jointer is just fine. When you start needing to face joint boards wider than 6", then look at an upgrade to a bigger jointer. But for now, a used 6" jointer (you can find them for a few hundred dollars) would be a very useful tool.

4. If you are wiring your shop now, then wiring for 240 is a no-brainer. The tools you are looking at now will generally run on 110 and will be just fine on 110, but if you stick with woodworking, you will want to upgrade to bigger tools later, and the bigger tools will require 240V.

[Gregory King]

Ahh! The old 120v versus 240V debate. When I built my shop, the electrician upgraded the house first to 200amp from 100amp. Then he installed the 100 amp panel in the shop with a 60 amp breaker. So items on 240 cuts the amperage in half obviously. Seldom do I have more than two items running at the same time. The table saw is still wired to 120 and dims the lights slightly when starting. No good reason to not upgrade to 240 other than laziness. I have had the jointer and thickness planer on at the same time. Never a problem. Just have to keep in mind you have a total of 60 amps to work with. Hope this helps a tad.

[Todd Mason-Darnell]

Welcome to the forum...I am only a few years in on the hobby, so I understand your quandary.

You are getting a lot of good advice. I will add mine as newbe.

I built a router table (Norm's) an added a lift--definitely worth it.

I started with a shop vac and went to the HF DC with a cannister filter and trash can separator...big improvement.

I also started with a contractor saw that I tried adding all sorts of bells and whistles on to make it great--built it into a table, tried an auxiliary fence, etc . It was okay and I did good work with it. When I got a cabinet saw in 2014 (sawstop), it was a gamechanger for me. My advice is that you focus on getting a good quality cabinet saw before anything else. I am still using the stock fence that came with the sawstop. Occasionally, I would like the adjustability and precision of an Incra, but it would be a small incremental step...there are several other areas I would get a bigger improvement for my $ (or at least I think)

I use an inexpensive track saw to break down sheet goods to rough size and then finish on the table saw. I drool over a more expensive track saw, but as an amateur, the cheap track saw is often good enough.

As for the planner, I just got my 6" PM planner in August and I am still in the honeymoon period with it.

[Jim Becker]

So items on 240 cuts the amperage in half obviously.

The same amps are spread over two conductors... ;)

[Robert Engel]

Nick,

Watts are watts so you don't use less electricity. I think there might be some merit in thinking a motor has a longer life running at 220V. I got this impression when we switched our well pump to 240V.

Marcus,

The best advice I can give you starting out is focus on building skills, not projects. Chose projects that will help you develop skills. And even more important, you will quickly get frustrated and discouraged trying to build skills with cheap inferior tools. So buy the best tools you can afford and watch lots of videos.

The DC setup your describing will be OK for collecting a router, miter saw, etc, but not a table saw, bandsaw, etc. Not enough CFM's.

My suggestion to you is to spend some time on due diligence. Stay away from the consumer type saws you see in the big box stores. Focus on machines that have a true induction motor. Read some review by reputable sources like FineWoodworking, Popular WW'ing, etc.

Ballpark, you're could easily be looking at $10-12,000 worth of machines depending on brand, type etc. All the major brands will do the job it simply depends on the budget.

Ultimately you're going to have to make your own decisions based on your needs, your budge, and your research.

Here is my suggestions based on 30 years experience:

The first key machine is a table saw. The fence is the key. Step 1 is to go through the saw thoroughly, checking all the alignments, the belts, lubrication, and blowing out the motor with compressed air. That Delta saw will probably do the job for you. I have both a 3HP and 1 3/4 HP tablesaw. The latter can hand full kerf blades no problem (sharp ones!!). At some point you will probably want to move up.

Definitely need a riving knife. Check out MicroJig.

Step 2 is focus on hand tools and hand tool skills. A quick tool list would include #4 plane, block plane, chisel set, saw set, measuring, marking and last but not least, sharpening. Buy the best tools you can afford. Once again, lots and lots of research on brands, techniques, etc.

Bench: you need a table saw and some hand tools to build a bench ;-).

Track saw: An inexpensive saw guide will do the job of a track saw. Use that money for hand tools!

Router table: Build your own fence. Router lifts are nice, but some brands like Triton have built in lifts.

[Rod Sheridan]

The same amps are spread over two conductors... ;)

That's not true Jim, a 20 ampere load at 120 volts is a 10 ampere load at 240 volts.

In one case there is 20 amperes flowing in the circuit, in the other case 10 amperes. Both loads are single phase, so 2 conductors per circuit........Rod.

[Roger Feeley]

Good hint Bernie. I've never seen those before.

I wonder if there are any that will automatically turn on my overhead dust filter and then turn it off when the dust subsides.

[Jim Becker]

That's not true Jim, a 20 ampere load at 120 volts is a 10 ampere load at 240 volts.

In one case there is 20 amperes flowing in the circuit, in the other case 10 amperes. Both loads are single phase, so 2 conductors per circuit........Rod.
I stand corrected...I wasn't thinking when I replied.