Filling gaps and pin holes in white oak

[mark mcfarlane]

I'm building a Murphy bed and adjacent cabinets from QS white oak. The headboard (shown below) is 3/4 QS WO plywood with 1/4" solid stock applied to look like a raised panel construction. I have a few gaps at a couple joints, and pin holes from the pin nailer used to apply the 1/4" trim.

My planned finish schedule is just a few coats of oil and varnish (Arm-R-Seal).

Any good, simple ideas for filling the gaps and pin holes? I once watched a cabinet finish guy fill nail holes after the finish was applied. He had a couple colors and rubbed in whatever matched the grain at each nail hole.

FWIW, These pin nails leave very small holes.

399621 . 399622

[Ron Citerone]

I am a newbie in the world of epoxy, but perhaps some 5 minute epoxy allowed to dry a day or two followed by ROS and then finish. I have really been trying to avoid the gaps by dry clamping to see whats going on, and then some super sharp chisel work and clamp adjustment/placement. I know it's too late for my second point, but for future thoughts..

[mark mcfarlane]

I am a newbie in the world of epoxy, but perhaps some 5 minute epoxy allowed to dry a day or two followed by ROS and then finish. I have really been trying to avoid the gaps by dry clamping to see whats going on, and then some super sharp chisel work and clamp adjustment/placement. I know it's too late for my second point, but for future thoughts..
Thanks Ron,

I possibly could have pulled some of the gaps closer with clamps, but I figured clamping 1/4" stock end-to-end on top of a sheet of plywood the exact same dimension would be problematic, so I pushed with my hand as I applied the first pins.

I've dyed epoxy black to fill voids/knots in the middle of a board, but am not sure how clear epoxy would look in these paper-thin gaps. Anyone tried this? I am concerned that the absorption of epoxy (or CA) in the solid wood around the gap would change the finish absorption around the gap, making the problem visibly 'larger'.

Since I am doing a clear-ish oil/varnish finish, I could potentially put on one coat of finish to get the oiled look out of the wood, then epoxy/CA, then sand and add subsequent coats of finish...

I'll probably apply 3 coats or Arm-R-Seal on the headboard.

[Cary Falk]

I always dye my yellow glue to match the finished color. That way any squeeze out fills small gaps like this. I would probably try to dyd=e some glue(yellow or epoxy and force it in with a putty knife. There is also putty. I like all my gaps filled before the finish so everything is smooth and doesn't show when the light shines just right on it .

[keith wootton]

i have nothing on filling the holes and gaps, but the holes can be slightly minimized if you hold the nail gun so its driver is parallel to the grain in the wood. that would make the nail gun perpendicular to to the grain in most cases.

[John TenEyck]

My advise is to fill the holes, gaps, etc. only after you have applied at least one coat of finish. If you try to apply putty, glue, whatever, before that it will get into the grain around the hole and effect how the finish looks, as in obvious and unsightly. Once you have a coat or two of finish on any excess putty, epoxy, whatever, will be easy to wipe off, completely.

Alternatively, an easy way to fill small holes, and cracks is to wet sand the first coat of finish into the wood. The slurry you make fills the holes, etc. as you wet sand. This works really well with oil finishes. With Arm-R-Seal I think you would have to add some mineral spirits to it in order to give yourself enough open time for that to work. Alternatively, you could use Danish oil or tung oil for the first coat and wet sand that in, and then use ARS for the remaining topcoats.

John

[Lee Schierer]

Apply a single drop of water to each pin hole. The wood fibers should swell and may completely hide the hole. The same trick will help with dings or dents.

[Richard Coers]

I use blue tape to mask off the crack before filing. Just smear a filler with your finger or putty knife and you will get a halo around the whole joint. I prefer Famowood original wood filler. Solvent based, not the water based.

[mark mcfarlane]

Apply a single drop of water to each pin hole. The wood fibers should swell and may completely hide the hole. The same trick will help with dings or dents.

Lee, I thought about trying this but was concerned that my harbor freight pins would rust and stain the wood, again making the hole look bigger than it is.

[mark mcfarlane]

My advise is to fill the holes, gaps, etc. only after you have applied at least one coat of finish. ...

Alternatively, an easy way to fill small holes, and cracks is to wet sand the first coat of finish into the wood. ...

John

Thanks John. That's what I was thinking, one coat of finish first.

I'll try the wet sand approach using the first finish coat, and then see if any remaining problems need filling after the base coat. I've done a similar trick with wet sanding CA into small gaps and it worked pretty well.

[mark mcfarlane]

i have nothing on filling the holes and gaps, but the holes can be slightly minimized if you hold the nail gun so its driver is parallel to the grain in the wood. that would make the nail gun perpendicular to to the grain in most cases.

Oops. Thanks Keith. I knew that, and then forgot before I started nailing. Every project a few new techniques 'stick' and a few disappear.

[mark mcfarlane]

Thanks Richard and Cary for the ideas.

I think I have an approach to try tomorrow: Hand sand the first finish coat of oil whilst it is wet, let it dry, scuff sand and see how it looks. I suspect the pin holes will disappear with this approach and most of the small gaps.

[mark mcfarlane]

...

Alternatively, an easy way to fill small holes, and cracks is to wet sand the first coat of finish into the wood. The slurry you make fills the holes, etc. as you wet sand. ....

John

John, considering my joints have grain going in perpendicular directions, do you carefully sand by hand or use a ROS?

I also assume I should use the same final grit used before the oil coat.

[Lee Schierer]

Lee, I thought about trying this but was concerned that my harbor freight pins would rust and stain the wood, again making the hole look bigger than it is.

You might get a little blackening due to the iron and tannic acid in the hole. Try one and see what it does on a piece of scrap.

[John TenEyck]

John, considering my joints have grain going in perpendicular directions, do you carefully sand by hand or use a ROS?

I also assume I should use the same final grit used before the oil coat.


Right angle joints are hard to do by hand, but I wouldn't want to risk sucking finish into my ROS. I vote by hand, carefully, unless you have a way to shield your sander. And, yeah, same grit as you last used.

John

[mark mcfarlane]

Right angle joints are hard to do by hand, but I wouldn't want to risk sucking finish into my ROS. I vote by hand, carefully, unless you have a way to shield your sander. And, yeah, same grit as you last used.

John

John, I could use a Festool ROS but turn off the vacuum. Or if I have the right paper grit I could use an old Bosch ROS that has been in a drawer for years...

Edit: My Festool paper fits my old Bosch 3283, and the holes don't align so I can't suck up anything... I keep the Bosch around to loan to other people :)

[johnny means]

I've been using an ROS to sand frame and panel constructions for 20 years. Every cabinet maker I've ever worked with does the same. I also use it to sand between coats of finish. So does every finisher i know. I can't imagine anyone makes a ROS without thinking it might be used to sand finishes.

[Jim Morgan]

Mark, there was a recent thread on the finishing forum "Filling Nail Holes or Minor Imperfections." The first post has a link to a YouTube video that you might find helpful.

[mark mcfarlane]

I've been using an ROS to sand frame and panel constructions for 20 years. Every cabinet maker I've ever worked with does the same. I also use it to sand between coats of finish. So does every finisher i know. I can't imagine anyone makes a ROS without thinking it might be used to sand finishes.

Johnny, you may have messed the gist of what we were talking about: sanding the finish with a ROS while the finish is wet, to create a slurry of finish and saw dust to fill minor imperfections.

[mark mcfarlane]

Mark, there was a recent thread on the finishing forum "Filling Nail Holes or Minor Imperfections." The first post has a link to a YouTube video that you might find helpful.

Thanks James, I found it: https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?269948-Filling-Nail-Holes-or-Minor-Imperfections

[Jim Tobias]

Mark
Timbermate has a "white oak" filler now. I have not used it specifically, but I have used many of their other water based fillers. They are very easy to use and , if necessary, you can tweak the shade/color with transtint.
Just a thought.

Jim

[Richard Coers]

It's been my experience, that applying oil to an open joint like that only magnifies the problem. The oil soaks into the end grain and makes it darker. Sanding a slurry with an oil finish is okay for filling wood pores, it does not work for filling cracks. The slurry will continue to ooze to the bottom of the crack before drying. It'll take a month to fill that big crack with oil and sanding slurry.

[al heitz]

For small holes or gaps I sometimes add a drop or two of shellac or vanish to fine sawdust from the wood you are using and use that for a filler. It will match up fairly well.

[Jim Becker]

Honestly, I almost never fill the pin holes from 23 gage pins. The finish tends to deal with that, but if necessary, I'd fill them after the first coat of final top coats is applied with an appropriately colored stick and then complete the finish. The material used must be compatible with the finish relative to adhesion for obvious reasons.

[Frank Pratt]

For small holes or gaps I sometimes add a drop or two of shellac or vanish to fine sawdust from the wood you are using and use that for a filler. It will match up fairly well.

That's what I've done on trim work & I think it matches better than mixing sawdust with glue. Filling those gaps with epoxy will just accentuate them because it will be much darker than the wood.

[mark mcfarlane]

Thanks everyone for the help. The scurry approach with a ROS didn't work for me. Maybe too thick a coat of Arm-R-Seal, maybe not enough patience,... I was able to mostly fill in the two largest joints with slivers of the same wood, using CA and accelerant. The other gaps were too small to get anything into.

Some wax crayons seem to be doing the trick on the smaller gaps. Tape both sides, rub in the crayons, remove tape and rub off with a cloth.

I'm going to open a new post in the finishing forum on crayon and stain pen choices.

Edit: Here's an 'after pic' of the same joint with two coats a small sliver of QSWO, 2 coats of Arm-R-Seal, then some Varathane filler crayon applied. I still have some work on mixing the right crayons to get the color I want. I'm melting a few drops, mix with a nail, knead with my fingers, and apply.

399793

Thanks again to everyone for sharing your ideas.

Cheers,

Mark

[Jeff Ramsey]

With Timber Mate I found their suggestion to use a few drops of warm water to be good. But, it still won't take stain at the same rate as the surrounding material.

[Frank Pratt]

The repair looks very good.

[Jim Dwight]

I'm too late to help the OP but I agree his repairs look good. I also use waxed crayons and have had good luck hiding trim head screw holes in stair treads and railings with them. But my most recent success was with ZAR (at least I think that was the brand) wood filler. I bought a tub of it when I was refinishing a fairly small area of oak flooring, one hallway sized space and a small bedroom. I few large cracks had appeared in the flooring, maybe 1/8 wide at the widest. I put the putty in, let it dry, and then sanded the floor with the final grit. The cracks are nearly invisible. I later tried it under stain when I made a bed. My mortise and tenon joints were not great and I wanted to fill some small gaps. The same putty worked well. I was surprised that it doesn't shrink much and took finish well - but I was using tinted poly which lays on the surface so perhaps I should not have been surprised.

[Jim Tobias]

With the TimberMate, I usually use mix in dye(Transtint) to color it pretty exact before filling with it. Then just finish and topcoat as normal.
Jim