Looking for a new ROS

[Mike OMelia]

I have used my PC 390 happily for years. I like the low profile and low vibration transmission. Its a bit heavy and I feel like I'm fighting the rotor dynamics. But still, its been reliable. I'd like something smaller. Lighter. But with same power. Saw the Festool ETS 125 REQ. Want to keep 5" pad. My work is mostly acoustic guitars. Regarding dust collection, I like the 390 DC. Is there similar with Festool? I really do not care about dragging a hose and vacuum around.

Is Stickfix same as hook and loop? If I buy a Festool sander, do I have to buy their paper? Or can I use stuff like Mirka hook and loop, etc.?

Mike

[Jim Becker]

Dust collection is excellent with the Festool sanders...designed from the ground up for that...and they are comfortable and vibration free. That's why I originally bought them. If you buy the "correct" version of the 5" unit, it can also be used with a 6" pad should you ever have that need. And yes, "StickFix" is hook & loop.

[Mike OMelia]

Jim, I have been reading about the paper. Seems Festool paper is highly regarded, readily available (like from my fav store Klingspor) and has a special hole pattern. So just sticking regular 8 hole on may not work. As long as paper is high quality, Im good. Here are my questions:

Is the 125 a great sander given that my work is over small area (acoustic guitars)? When sanding these things, there are lots of orientations involved, and my arms get tired with heavier sanders. Oh, what is "correct" version?

Would i be better off using a vacuum?

Mike

[Mike OMelia]

https://www.festoolusa.com/products/sanding-and-brushing/random-orbital-sander/574993---ets-125-req-plus-usa

What else do I need?

[Simon MacGowen]

Check out the latest FW review: https://www.finewoodworking.com/2018/10/30/w272-tool-test-5-random-orbit-sanders which puts Craftsman 320-39592 ($55) as best value and Festool RO 125 FEQ as best overall. A lot of people like the ETS though for finish sanding.

I always use my sanders (Festool or other brands) with a vac/dust extractor (Festool's terminology), and the mesh sandpapers seem to work best. No longer do I need to align the holes, and the dust collection improves with the mesh design.

[Van Huskey]

First, keep in mind the ETS 125 is a short stroke (2mm) finish sander, people have bought it that are not happy with the speed of removal, if a finish sander is what you need it is great. The ETS EC 125 3mm sander is a much more versatile sander and being brushless it is more powerful and the ergonomics is much better and is also lightweight and has even lower vibration. It can also accept a 6" pad if you desire but is certainly more expensive than the ETS 125.

Regarding discs the Festool abrasives are excellent but Klingspor and others make paper with the correct hole pattern. That said I use net abrasive (must use an interface pad which is now available from Festool). I have used Mirka Abranet for years but recently Festool and Klingspor have started selling net abrasive discs. Home Depot even has Diablo net abrasives but I have not tried them.

[Jim Becker]

Festool abrasives are good as are the choices from other vendors. The correct hole pattern is very important for dust extraction, including the center hole that you'll see on abrasives made for Festool sanders.

Van already explained which version is likely the better choice for overall versatility.

[keith micinski]

On this note I went to the store on Friday to buy a 125 or a 150 and really wanted to. I have heard nothing but great things about the festool sanders so I was really surprised at how much vibration, how loud they were, and how awful they sounded. They both seemed to sand fine and the dust collection on the 6" with the newer pad design appeared to be about a 100 percent, the 5" wasn't as impressive on the dust collection but still really good. I have to be honest, while the sanders were really good I couldn't see them being worth 5-650 dollars. My basic Makita that's 15 years old isn't great in anyway and I really wanted to upgrade but just couldn't see the value in it.

[Dave Sabo]

Some points and thoughts I think worth noting:

The 125REQ and 125EC both weigh the same.

Festool in not so many words requires the use of a vacuum on the EC models. Part of the reason the electronic wizardry is on them that detects a vacuum hose.

I have both and find the EC best for really large panels, doors, ect..... I wouldn't use it on guitars. Once the hose is connected it becomes a lot less maneuverable for me. Even though it's a lot shorter and has a brushless motor like your PC, I doubt you'll find it beneficial around guitar parts. The 125req is really a sweet little sander except if you're using it for stock removal. 120-320 grit and you're good.

I think dust collection is kinda a necessity for all sanding. It saves the abrasives, the pad, and it's just cleaner. Bosch makes a tiny 19mm diameter antistatic hose that is really nice and maneuverable for sanders.

Highly suggest you try them out at Klingspor or another dealer before you pull the trigger.

[Van Huskey]

On this note I went to the store on Friday to buy a 125 or a 150 and really wanted to. I have heard nothing but great things about the festool sanders so I was really surprised at how much vibration, how loud they were, and how awful they sounded. They both seemed to sand fine and the dust collection on the 6" with the newer pad design appeared to be about a 100 percent, the 5" wasn't as impressive on the dust collection but still really good. I have to be honest, while the sanders were really good I couldn't see them being worth 5-650 dollars. My basic Makita that's 15 years old isn't great in anyway and I really wanted to upgrade but just couldn't see the value in it.

Based on price you were looking at the dual mode Rotex sanders not the single mode ROS. They are a completely different beast (2 handed at that) than the ETS and ETS EC ROS. For a fair comparison, you need to look at the Makita and Bosch dual mode sanders. Compared to the ROS the dual mode sanders (of all brands) have more vibration, are louder and have a growl, especially in gear-driven mode. They are great for high volume removal (in gear-driven mode) but they really aren't very user friendly for jobs you would normally use an ROS for.

The ETS sanders are objectively quieter and have lower vibration based on EU testing than basically all ROS (of similar size) except the Mirka and Surfprep/Airvantage sanders.

[Simon MacGowen]

My basic Makita that's 15 years old isn't great in anyway and I really wanted to upgrade but just couldn't see the value in it.

All ROSs regardless of brands and prices work in the same principle, though some may be designed for more aggressive needs and with better control or features. Festool sanders are more pricey partly for their systainers, brand value etc. The FW review reached the conclusion that all sanders tested did the sanding job. Dust collection, vibration etc. were covered in the review.

I was surprised by its finding about the Craftsman sander which was almost 1/10 of a Festool! Although I have had enough sanders including Festool ones and others, I might pick up a Crapsman...oops, Craftsman to try it out. At least it wouldn't be too expensive a paper weight if the experiment failed, it could become a favorite loan tool foo my neighbors.

Simon

[Mike OMelia]

Well, after reading all of this and studying the Festool website, the only obvious choices are the ETS 125 REQ and the ETS EC 125/3. The former has a slightly smaller orbit and the latter has a slightly larger orbit than my PC 390. I really like the fact that I do not have to use DC with the 125REQ. Maybe a good place to enter the market? Newbie question, do I need anything else? I do not understand that plug. Edit: Never mind, I see there are different versions based on country.

[Van Huskey]

The ETS 125 is a great sander as long as the short stroke works for you. The only thing you need beyond the sander and accessories that come with the sanders is sandpaper and whatever dust collection you intend to use.

[Mike OMelia]

Van, this is driving me crazy. I can see where I would need the short stroke and the larger one too. I suppose that pushes me towards one of the dust collectors. What I am thinking is when I sell one of my guitars, I'll put part of the sale towards the 2 sanders and a DC. So, what DC? ( I went through this agony when I bought my Fuji turbine... that tool changed my product quality in amazing ways!). I'm hoping I will see similar quality improvement with these sanders. All I have read says that they ALL benefit from powered DC. -Mike

[Martin Wasner]

Are you sanding wood or finish? A 2mm orbit will be horrific for sanding wood, but great for finish

[Jim Becker]

Mike, the Festool CT extractors are designed well and you can get a small discount buying a sander and one of the CT extractors at the same time. It's the "system" approach. You obviously can use a different brand extractor if you prefer, such as Fein. I recommend you avoid common "shop vacs", both for noise reasons and for filtration. The Festool CT has autosense for turning on when you press the button on the tool and also has variable speed so you can reduce vacuum as you move up to finer and finer abrasives and avoid "sticking" the tool to your workpiece.

[Van Huskey]

Are you sanding wood or finish? A 2mm orbit will be horrific for sanding wood, but great for finish

I tend to agree, I use 5mm (3/16) stroke sanders for bare wood. I use the 2mm for film finishes. I have a bit of a ROS fetish and have 4 of the Pro 5s (same as the current ETS 125) and keep different grits on each one when I am working on finish. I have the ETS EC 150/5, Mirka 650 and a 6" Surfprep/Airvantage and my favorite is the Airvantage which oddly enough was the cheapest. You may remember I decided with some sleuthing that Airvantage almost certainly makes the Surfprep which I fell in love with at IWF this year. I have the external power pack version which brings me back to the Mirka Ceros days.

Mike, you don't have to have the Festool extractor but it is very nice and whole unit HEPA rated. I have gotten used to the hose over time and now feel completely comfortable with it. I use a tapered hose (down to 27mm) and have the cord attached to the hose with braided hose cover and terminated at the ends with heat shrink tubing which means I only have to manage one tail AND the corrugations on the hose can't catch on edges. You can get the hose cover at Wirecare as well as other places. I think Toolnut sells a "kit". I use multiple colors to indicate which tool cord is connected to that hose, I have ones for my different brands of sanders (all have removable cords) and have several Festool "sets" with the small and large gauge cords, those I identify by using the same color cover but different colors of heat shrink. It also helps if the hoses are suspended from the ceiling, I use trolleys on Unistrut, Rockler came out with a system recently, their trolleys are cheap(er) but their track is plastic and EXPENSIVE, the Rockler trolleys work on Unistrut or the copies, you can get it at the BORG or any construction supply house.

I don't use a Festool extractor since I rarely use my tools outside the shop I have a Oneida Dust Cobra plumbed through the shop that provides tool controlled on and off (via select outlets) with overrun to clear the hose. It works like a large Festool extractor.

A regular shop vac works fine but the Festool along with Fein, Nilfisk and a bunch of others are much quieter and have various other benefits.

To be honest the best way to approach this is set yourself a hard budget and work up to it now, you can always expand in the future as you see fit.

BTW Amazon.de is an excellent place to get Festool hoses, Bosch also has some hoses that look like they are made in the same factory and many people use them.

You are at the top of what is a deep rabbit hole, it is usually best to tie a rope on and slowly climb down step by step instead of yelling "Hold my green kool-aid" and diving in head first.

[Mike OMelia]

OK, to answer some questions. I have two major applications. One is wood sanding. By the time the guitar body is built, the wood has spent a lot of time under planers an sanders. So, its not like I have a lot of heavy duty sanding to do. Thus, I think the ETS EC125/3 is a great solution. My other application is epoxy flattening and finish leveling. All of my guitars get a finish coat of epoxy (West Systems, Z-Poxy, etc for pore fill and grain pop) and I have to smooth out before finish coating (Enduro-Var, EMTech 6000, Nitro). And, once the final finish is applied, I have to level sand to get rid of defects, orange peel, etc. To me, the ETS 125 REQ answers that. In the end, there is NO substitute for the hand finish. Its slow and tedious, but it delivers that ultimate flat and shiny surface without risk of sand through. I hand sand with wet paper and mineral spirits. Everything I have read says these tools do a better job with DC. So hopefully, I have explained my requirements better now. Thanks!! BTW, I do not see a need for 6" or Rotax. I understand the EC125 can do 6". So my final question is, which DC? I love rabbit holes.

[Van Huskey]

Honestly, I think you are on the right track for your needs.

The extractor/vacuum options depend a lot on budget, but if budget allows I would get the CT36 and the boom arm set. It is a lot of money but I doubt you will be unhappy. If not the boom arm set build something similar to hold both sanders and keep the cord/hose supported. With that full Festool setup you can roll it all around and have both sanders waiting to just switch the cord and hose between them.

399483

[Joe Hendershott]

A little off topic as it seems you've made a good choice already but I've been using my festool sander for a few months now. Yesterday we needed to sand a small spot outside so I picked up my Bosch 3275 sander that I used for years. Holy cow! I almost dropped it. The thing was like picking up a hornets nest with the high rev buzzing and vibration. I couldn't believe the difference and considered the Bosch to be a pretty good sander before. In fainess they both work, but one makes sanding almost something to look forward to, almost.

[Van Huskey]

Yesterday we needed to sand a small spot outside so I picked up my Bosch 3275 sander that I used for years.

In further fairness to Bosch the 3275 is now a second tier tool for them, the ROS65VC is their flagship ROS and the VC stands for vibration control. It is a solid sander and would be my choice if you wanted to stay away from Festool and save about $150 over the most direct competitor the ETS 150. It has a "tweener" orbit at 4mm which splits the more common 3mm/5mm options.

[Joe Hendershott]

Good to hear Bosch has something better now. Wasn't trying to bash them really- it wouldn't be a fair comparison from any point of view. I have several of their power tools and all are somewhat satisfactory...sometimes.

[Mike OMelia]

Say what u like, my 390K has been (and sill is) a trouper. Low vibe, excellent reliability. But apparently this was not a widely experienced result. Its ok, on to the newer things

[Van Huskey]

Good to hear Bosch has something better now. Wasn't trying to bash them really- it wouldn't be a fair comparison from any point of view. I have several of their power tools and all are somewhat satisfactory...sometimes.

I didn't think you were trying to bash them, I just thought it might be useful to someone to know about the ROS65VC.

[Van Huskey]

Say what u like, my 390K has been (and sill is) a trouper. Low vibe, excellent reliability. But apparently this was not a widely experienced result. Its ok, on to the newer things

The 390 was a good sander one if not the first brushless ROS, it was in that respect ahead of its time. I was never really sure why it didn't catch on.

[Joe Hendershott]

I didn't think you were trying to bash them, I just thought it might be useful to someone to know about the ROS65VC.

Actually I was, getting cranky in my old age. Went to buying mostly Bosch a few years ago for the perceived quality and have been let down. The MRC23 router kit is a POS, the drill/driver is a real dog- takes me 5 minutes to wrestle a battery out. The Pony router base always creeps around. The jigsaw is really a ...well, you get it. Not pleased. But if you like Bosch there are now some good deals on CL in Atlanta. Just my opinion.