Air dried lumber with bug holes

[Tony Roun]

Hi all- I’ve primarily worked with kiln dried lumber, and this past week I purchased some air dried ash, poplar, and hard maple. Moisture content ranging from 11-19%. I just stacked and stickered the boards in my shop to finish their drying, and figured I would plane a board or two just to take a look at what I bought. I see some small bug holes in the sapwood of the hard maple, maybe 1/16” in diameter. I am not all that hung up on the cosmetics of the lumber but am more concerned about storing it in my basement shop and whether the bugs could still be active and be interested in the wood framing of my house. The seller claims the ash and maple have been cut and stacked outside for two years, and the poplar was a cut log for many years and was just milled recently. Should I be concerned about storing these boards in my basement? I don’t have access to a kiln and am wondering if I just wasted my time and effort getting these neatly stored in the shop. I don’t know enough about potential pests and if they would still be active.

The poplar also has some small holes, the ask looks ok.

I can try to post some pictures later. I appreciate any advice!

[johnny means]

Years ago i used some air dried (great deal) lumber in a job for a client's condo in Miami Beach. Realize I'm located in Delaware. This was the client's vacation spot and as such sat empty 40+ weeks a year. Long story short, after three years they discovered an infestation of powder post beetles which couldn't be remedied in the building per building rules. It was an installation so I ended up packing up, driving to miami, removing, delivering to an exterminator, and reinstalling the entire job on my own dollar. I'm very skittish about where I'll buy lumber from now, i definitely would be weary of storing questionable material in my home.

[John TenEyck]

I've had the same issue occasionally with lots of different lumber I've milled and air dried. Maple, ash, even the sapwood of walnut. I've never had any problems when I brought it into my shop after air drying to 12 - 14%. But I'm not saying you shouldn't be concerned nor do nothing about it either. You could easily treat the lumber you have with Timbor and that will kill any beetles or larvae that may still be present.

John

[Tom M King]

I've treated a lot of old house timbers with Boracare. If I'm remembering right, Timbor only goes into the surface a little, whereas Boracare is supposed to go deeper. I've never noticed any staining, but never used it on any wood that would be finished, so don't really know the effects.

If you can get it to 140 degrees F for five hours, that's supposed to kill any insects in it.

[Richard Coers]

Get it out of your shop immediately! The only totally accepted method of complete sterilization is heat. The center of the wood must reach 133 degrees. Here is the latest requirements to ship ash to Europe, so you see the exacting process required to sterilize the wood. Also be aware that tiny holes on the surface were just the exit holes. You likely still have eggs and larvae in the wood. You will also have a matrix of tunnels inside the wood. Those sections are completely ruined
* 10% or less in MC
* Dry bulb temperature must reach 160 degrees F for 20 hours minimum.
* Lumber must be debarked, small residual pieces less than the size of a credit card are acceptable.
* Lumber drying time of 14 days, this includes air drying time.
* Lumber must be stenciled with KD - HT on both ends of the packs. (bottom right corner)
* Treatment durations, dry and wet bulb temperatures, and final moisture contents will be recorded for each specific lot, and maintained for a minimum of 3 years.

[Jim Andrew]

Best way to rid yourself of beetle infested wood is to burn it. Burning kills beetles.

[eugene thomas]

i would get it dried. i bought some wormy oak from guy that was selling his dads wood that was in a barn for 20 years stacked. I stacked in my wood shed and one day looked between the stickers and seen some powder lines.... that wood was taken to kiln and dried.

[Terry Therneau]

You need to heat treat it, but you can do that yourself if you want. Sticker the wood and build an insulated box around it: insulation board and tape. Since the wood is mostly dry the full facilities of a kiln are not needed. If you google "dehumidification kiln" there is a modest literature on drying your own lumber, and those folks have to finish off with a heating step. Fortunately, once the wood is below 10% that last step consists of a small electric heater, a box fan to ensure there are no cold spots, and a thermostat.

[Richard Coers]

You need to heat treat it, but you can do that yourself if you want. Sticker the wood and build an insulated box around it: insulation board and tape. Since the wood is mostly dry the full facilities of a kiln are not needed. If you google "dehumidification kiln" there is a modest literature on drying your own lumber, and those folks have to finish off with a heating step. Fortunately, once the wood is below 10% that last step consists of a small electric heater, a box fan to ensure there are no cold spots, and a thermostat.
Unfortunately small electric heaters and box fans will not survive in 150 degree insulated boxes. Nearly every box fan now have plastic blades, electric heaters have plastic parts and not the capacity to reach 150.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Huh. Is this situation common, and is it as dire as some of you are saying?

(I'm worried as I had an ash tree sawed, stacked it in an old barn for a few years to dry, and just now moved it all to my shop. Didn't give bugs any real thought, until now...)

[Andrew Hughes]

I also don’t worry too much about a few bugs holes. I like working with air dried wood too much .
One year I did get some Cedar and pine from Lake Arrowhead that had Carpenter bees in it.
In the spring I would do battle as they emerged. I found they were living in some boards I used for shelves in the gardening shed.
They would fly around my shop and sometimes dive at me. I made a special paddle stick just for the occasion

[Richard Coers]

I'm not exaggerating! I bought a bandsaw mill and cut almost every weekend from a municipal landscape dump. Stacked and stickered for years and then hauled it all to my Mom's farm and tight stacked it there. I had to move her to assisted living in March 2017. Had to clean out the shed and discovered that everything but walnut and catalpa had some level of infestation. I sent 16" wide soft maple to the burn pile. First I tried trimming and cutting out the damage. It was so extensive. As a matter of fact, ash was the worst. It must be like candy to PPB. I was just heart broken. I had sold the mill, and with good fortune sold it for $300 than I paid for it. So not a real dollar loss, but my retirement supply of lumber was destroyed. I also have lost turning blanks stored in my garage. After extensive reading about what went wrong, I found that even kiln dried can be infested again. The beetle can still lay eggs. Moral to my story is only get the wood that you can work for each job. No long term storage.

[Jason Lester]

It's definitely bad when it happens. I bought some cherry a few years ago that had been kiln dried, but then stacked in a barn for years. It had been re-infested at some point. I had to unstack my whole pile of lumber and treat it outside before moving it back in. It was a serious pain.

[Tony Roun]

Alright- thanks for much for the advice. The lumber is moved outside until I rethink a sterilization strategy.

[Terry Therneau]

Unfortunately small electric heaters and box fans will not survive in 150 degree insulated boxes. Nearly every box fan now have plastic blades, electric heaters have plastic parts and not the capacity to reach 150.

Actually, 150 is not all that hot for a piece of plastic -- the inside of a parked car can get to 172 (Centers for Disease Control). Though I will agree that the quality of a box fan from the big box stores is poor. But I'll find out how myself in a few weeks, since I am going to employ the method once the holiday rush is over) Those who do this seriously use an attic fan.

[Tony Roun]

A bit of irony here, but one option for the buggy lumber could be to use it in the construction of a solar kiln in the spring. I didn’t pay much for the wood so I’m not going to cry in my pillow over it. Just not ready to toss it in the wood stove just yet.

[John K Jordan]

There are several different types of beetles that infect wood. Some stick to hardwoods, some want damp woods. Before panicking perhaps try to figure out which you have. The internet has a lot (too much) information. I think this is useful: https://entomology.ca.uky.edu/ef616

The powder post beetles can live in the wood for years, exiting as adults only to mate and lay eggs on tiny crevasses to restart the cycle.

JKJ

[Richard Coers]

My preferred heat source would be an oven heating element mounted to a piece of aluminum. Use the oven controller for heat setting. Look for a working junk stove for the parts. In my bowl kiln, I have this recycled giant aluminum heat sink sitting on a hot plate. So far so good for the 150 on it, but it's only heating the inside of a vertical freezer.

[brian wight]

I sterilized a bunch of wood last winter using this heat controller:

https://www.amazon.com/bayite-Fahrenheit-Digital-Temperature-Controller-x/dp/B011VGASLW/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1545710226&sr=8-14&keywords=temperature+controller

with 5 200w incandescent bulbs in porcelain bases in a 14x4x3 foot insulated box

It worked pretty well, it probably took 8 or so hours to heat the entire box up to 145 degrees in my unheated and below freezing garage. The bulbs were spread out along the length of the box so I didn't bother using a fan. I kept the temperature probe in a small hole drilled in the board in the corner furthest from the heat source to ensure that all boards got hot enough.

[Brice Rogers]

Richard Coers' idea of using an oven element for heating is good (as is the idea of using light bulbs). In fact, adding to that idea, you could get a fan from a convection oven that may work well. Actually, there are a lot of squirrel cage fans with metal vanes that could probably easily take the 150 or so degrees.

My own experience with light bulbs is although they work, they seem to have a shortened life span - - at least in the base-down orientation. I've found that the bulbs from the dollar store seem to work better than name brand ones. I use a pair of bulbs in a wooden box for (1) accelerating curing of oils and varnishes as well as it's original purpose of being a food drier.

If you google Craig's list you might find an electric oven or two that you could cannibalize.

[John K Jordan]

I sterilized a bunch of wood last winter using this heat controller:...

That controller looks great! And inexpensive - I'm ordering one, thanks.

A search of the woodweb and forestry forum will give info on how much heat is needed for how long to sterilize and some ways to get that heat. Gene Wengert indicates to bring the center of the wood to at least 130F and hold for several hours. (He reminds that heated wood will only be sterilized until it cools, then it could be reinfected.) The same thread indicates the heat sterilization standards for Australia are 165F inside the kiln for four hours for every inch of thickness.

I didn't study this but it looks complete:
https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr190/chapter_20.pdf

JKJ

[Art Mann]

Where i live, powder post beetles are common and the potential for damage can be severe. They seem to prefer damp areas. My Father's house was infested with them and he had to replace some red oak flooring and floor joists. If i were the OP, I would treat the lumber with the appropriate insecticide immediately or opt for kiln drying. The problem could get much worse.


Huh. Is this situation common, and is it as dire as some of you are saying?

(I'm worried as I had an ash tree sawed, stacked it in an old barn for a few years to dry, and just now moved it all to my shop. Didn't give bugs any real thought, until now...)

[Jim Andrew]

Storage of lumber is not so hard, but a barn is not a great place. Think storage container. They close up pretty tight, so if you put dry lumber in one, it will keep pretty well, and they also get pretty hot during summer, in fact probably hot enough to kill beetles. I use a couple of metal grain bins with concrete floors to store lumber, started when I put a couple pieces of beetle infested boards in there during summer, and checked later and found the beetle activity had ceased.

[John K Jordan]

Storage of lumber is not so hard, but a barn is not a great place. Think storage container. They close up pretty tight, so if you put dry lumber in one, it will keep pretty well, and they also get pretty hot during summer, in fact probably hot enough to kill beetles. I use a couple of metal grain bins with concrete floors to store lumber, started when I put a couple pieces of beetle infested boards in there during summer, and checked later and found the beetle activity had ceased.

I use a 40' shipping container to store hay and it did get pretty warm in the summer before I added vents. I don't think mine would get anywhere near the recommended sterilization temperature even before I added vents but it is in some shade. Maybe painting it black would help.

JKJ

[Bob Falk]

Brian, did you place the lights on the floor or ceiling of the box?

[brian wight]

I put the bulbs down the center of the floor facing up spaced every 2 feet to distribute the heat. I stacked (stickered) boards along the sides of the line of bulbs, and then bridged and stacked over the top of the bulbs once the side piles were high enough.

[Bob Falk]

Ahhh...makes sense. Thank you

[Jim Andrew]

John, think it helps if your container runs east and west for most sun contact, if you could check your temp during the heat of the day, you would know how much heat to add. I bought 10- 500 watt halogen work lights to add heat to my reefer trailer.