Something funny about people.... [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

Kyle Foster

12-19-2018, 10:01 PM

There is something funny about most people. They tell you what they think you want or need, not what you are asking for. I noticed it last Christmas with my family and my then fiance (now wife) they asked her for a list of items that she might like and they didnt get her a single one. It wasn't the cost of any of these items, it was just they felt the other items were more important than what she wanted. Throughout the year, I have been watching and it has been disheartening to say the least about how people try to impress themselves upon you.

You tell a person something and they come back at you saying not to do it for the very reasons you are. Maybe what people need is not stuff and things but something a little more intangible; something that is quite a bit harder to give. That something is perspective.

What is everyone's thoughts. Agree? Disagree? Neutral?

Art Mann

12-19-2018, 10:06 PM

Kyle Foster

12-19-2018, 10:13 PM

I am not sure what you are getting at but I will say this. I have observed on SMC and other forums that people tend to give advice about the advisability of doing a certain thing rather than answer the person's simple question of how to do it. That can be a good or bad thing.

I am trying to see how many other people notice others impressing their thoughts/ ways/ beliefs on people who dont want it and trying to give those who dont realize they're doing it a wakeup call.

I know I'm not the most eloquent guy out there so if I'm not being clear, ask again.

Lee DeRaud

12-19-2018, 11:01 PM

I have observed on SMC and other forums that people tend to give advice about the advisability of doing a certain thing rather than answer the person's simple question of how to do it. That can be a good or bad thing.Yeah, but then again there are a lot of threads here of the form, "How do I <insert stupid/illegal/life-threatening action>?" It's tempting to make popcorn, pull up a chair, and wait for the resulting disaster, but that's not how we roll.

Julie Moriarty

12-19-2018, 11:16 PM

Anytime anyone asks me what I want for Christmas I tell them I want a Little Harbor 42 or 44 (sailboat). They always get me something else. Maybe it's the way I say it.

Tom Stenzel

12-20-2018, 1:30 AM

Yeah, but then again there are a lot of threads here of the form, "How do I <insert stupid/illegal/life-threatening action>?" It's tempting to make popcorn, pull up a chair, and wait for the resulting disaster, but that's not how we roll.

The only way to make popcorn is in a pot with coconut oil, make sure the steam gets vented off. If you're doing it ANY OTHER WAY you're doing it WRONG!

/sarc off

If getting Christmas gifts is just a shopping list the recipient made out that would just be so boring. Surprises are nice. If the giver puts real thought into the gift - what is the issue?

A roommate of mine gave me a sweatshirt that she had hand painted winter scene with cardinal on it. I didn't ask for it, wasn't anything I expected. 25 years later I still have it and wear it on occasion. It's one of those small treasures I keep.

-Tom

Charlie Velasquez

12-20-2018, 2:53 AM

The only way to make popcorn is in a pot with coconut oil, make sure the steam gets vented off. If you're doing it ANY OTHER WAY you're doing it WRONG!

/sarc off

If getting Christmas gifts is just a shopping list the recipient made out that would just be so boring. Surprises are nice. If the giver puts real thought into the gift - what is the issue?

A roommate of mine gave me a sweatshirt that she had hand painted winter scene with cardinal on it. I didn't ask for it, wasn't anything I expected. 25 years later I still have it and wear it on occasion. It's one of those small treasures I keep.

-Tom
If I have a unique present in mind, ok, but then don't ask. If I ask, then as explained, it seems like an affront to disregard the suggestions.

Growing up we almost always had bacon on Sunday morning. We would save the bacon grease and use it to make popcorn to eat as we watched Wonderful World of Disney. Great family tradition.

Kory Cassel

12-20-2018, 6:11 AM

I think I see what you're talking about Kyle. Real communication is hard in many cases and especially with a back and forth on a forum. Two people can be having two separate lines of discussion that are close but never connecting. It gets harder because no on wants to seem rude like "I don't care how you would stagger those biscuits because I don't own a joiner!!!" Not like anyones trying to be unhelpful, just oblivious?

Larry Frank

12-20-2018, 7:55 AM

Forums are interesting places....

One needs to ask a specific question to try to get a good answer. Often, people do not really read the question and answer what they thought was asked. At times, people just go off on a tangent. So m times, thread go off into the wild blue yonder.

Every once in awhile, a thread stays on topic with great responses.

It is just the way of the web and forums.

Rod Sheridan

12-20-2018, 7:57 AM

I always ask for the same two Christmas presents, a donation to a charity of the purchaser's choice, or a donation to the charity I chose that provides Christmas meals to people who are down on their luck.

Most people comply with my wishes, others buy me a present because they "wanted me to have something", forgetting that what I wanted was a donation to a charity.

Regards, Rod.

Art Mann

12-20-2018, 8:49 AM

I think you see why I said that could be a good or bad thing. ;)

Yeah, but then again there are a lot of threads here of the form, "How do I <insert stupid/illegal/life-threatening action>?" It's tempting to make popcorn, pull up a chair, and wait for the resulting disaster, but that's not how we roll.

Tim Bueler

12-20-2018, 10:34 AM

Yes, it happens. When a person says "...this is what I want..." people say "...oh, you don't want that..."

2 examples from my past. I was looking to buy a firearm. I had a an exact brand and model in mind and at that point was just looking for the best price. This was pre-internet so into various gun shops I went. In one of the more popular local shops I told the clerk exactly what I was after. First words out of his mouth were "Oh, you don't want that, you want [this other brand/model/configuration that is a complete departure from what you asked for]". I just turned around and left him with a stupid look on his face.

Second example was in a house I was building. I was going over an order with the mill work supplier. I had a specific trim detail in mind that I'd done in other houses. I told the supplier what I wanted and he said "That won't work". I replied "yes it does, I've done it before". He came back with "No you didn't, that'll never work!" I was already committed to buying from that company for that job, but they missed out on ALL future sales.

Neither company is still in business, go figure.

Lee DeRaud

12-20-2018, 10:50 AM

I was looking to buy a firearm. I had a an exact brand and model in mind and at that point was just looking for the best price. This was pre-internet so into various gun shops I went. In one of the more popular local shops I told the clerk exactly what I was after. First words out of his mouth were "Oh, you don't want that, you want [this other brand/model/configuration that is a complete departure from what you asked for]". I just turned around and left him with a stupid look on his face.In every retail establishment I've ever set foot in, "You don't want that." is code for "We don't carry that brand." and/or "We don't have that model in stock."

Second example was in a house I was building. I was going over an order with the mill work supplier. I had a specific trim detail in mind that I'd done in other houses. I told the supplier what I wanted and he said "That won't work". I replied "yes it does, I've done it before". He came back with "No you didn't, that'll never work!" I was already committed to buying from that company for that job, but they missed out on ALL future sales.Yup, "That'll never work!" translates to "I could never figure out how to do that!" or "That's not how I do it!". Happens regularly on this forum.

(If anyone from the laser forum is here, yes, I'm talking about cutting acrylic without air assist, and yes, I do it routinely with excellent results.)

Steve Demuth

12-20-2018, 11:19 AM

I noticed it last Christmas with my family and my then fiance (now wife) they asked her for a list of items that she might like and they didnt get her a single one.

I did exactly this this Christmas for my daughter. Each adult in our family gets a gift for exactly one other adult, so she emailed me a list. I was traveling on business, and had an afternoon off, so went to a native artisan's gallery, and saw something there that, at least in my mind, fit her perfectly. So I bought it. Wasn't anything she'd ever ask her hold man to buy her, and it means (we also have gift $ limits) she's not going to get anything on her list. So what? The only way the $150 or so I spend on her for Christmas is going to mean anything to her is if it represents her father actually having thought about her. She can buy anything on her list whenever she wants. She'd never have been in that gallery with me though, and if she had her seeing the gift I got her would not have represented her father thinking about her, her connections to native peoples, and the fact that I am incredibly proud of her, think she's smart and beautiful, and want her to have and be able to wear remembrance of those thoughts. All of those things will be in the gift I got her.

Lee Schierer

12-20-2018, 11:20 AM

You tell a person something and they come back at you saying not to do it for the very reasons you are. Maybe what people need is not stuff and things but something a little more intangible; something that is quite a bit harder to give. That something is perspective.

I'm curious as to what you do when you ask someone what they want and they give you one or several answers.

Nicholas Lawrence

12-20-2018, 11:30 AM

“You don’t want that” is sometimes code for “I tried that and it does not work.” Always tricky over the internet of course, because expectations vary so widely.

Pat Barry

12-20-2018, 12:55 PM

This is why generic gift cards work so well. Give them $50 at Amazon, etc and stop worrying

Ron Citerone

12-20-2018, 1:04 PM

Not buying someone a gift that they asked for is one issue.

Wanting the black and white quick and to the point answer to an open ended question is another.

Examples:

First job rookie to veteran employee/experienced investor: "What is better a 401k or a Roth IRA?

Inexperienced fisherman to a hard core lifelong angler: "What is the best lure to catch a bass?"

Casual woodworker to an accomplished furniture maker: "Power tools have made hand tools obsolete right?"

Some questions require a discussion, not an answer...........................

P.S. Bagley's Deep Killer B II, Black on Char is the best bass lure! :eek:;):D

Don Orr

12-20-2018, 1:27 PM

We have dear friends who I think had the Christmas gift thing sorted out fairly well. She loves nice jewelry so she would go to her favorite store and pick out several things she liked and tell the sales person. Her husband would go in some time later and ask for the sales person and he would then select 1 or more of the items for purchase. When Christmas morning came she would open her gift and be surprised by which 1 he picked, but also know she already liked it. Seems to work for them. And to the OP, I also never understood that some would ask another what they would like and then not do that for them. I guess some folks just "know better". My wife and I don't do gifts of any sort and haven't for years. She has her money and hobbies and I have mine-and then we have "house" money that we both contribute to evenly so bills and such are taken care of 1st. We both live fairly simply and don't have kids or family, but we have what we want when we want. Hard to find a gift for the other in this situation. For events like holidays, birthdays, etc. we go to a Dollar store and get a bunch of cards and hide them around the house for each other with nice notes inside. Kinda fun.

James Pallas

12-20-2018, 2:17 PM

I always ask for socks and drawers when asked. There have been several years that I had to buy my own after Christmas.
I have also received many things like tools that I would never use. I even received a Vegamatic once, remember that? Who knows what is on the mind of a shopper. I try to watch people to guess what they might use and then buy the best I can afford. Been reasonably successful. I never ask. When people ask for advice on the forum I try to help with the best of my knowledge, experience with the task or tool is the qualifier for me.
Jim

Lee DeRaud

12-20-2018, 2:59 PM

This is why generic gift cards work so well. Give them $50 at Amazon, etc and stop worryingTried that the last five years or so of my dad's life, but so did he, so we ended up most of the time with two more-or-less identical gift cards crossing in the mail, which was kind of pointless. And not just at Christmas: our birthdays were only a week apart.

Charlie Hinton

12-20-2018, 6:32 PM

I keep a list of tools and music I would like to have on Amazon.
All of y'all feel free to buy something for me.... I guarantee whatever I receive will be a surprise.

Nathan Johnson

12-20-2018, 6:33 PM

I did exactly this this Christmas for my daughter. Each adult in our family gets a gift for exactly one other adult, so she emailed me a list. I was traveling on business, and had an afternoon off, so went to a native artisan's gallery, and saw something there that, at least in my mind, fit her perfectly. So I bought it. Wasn't anything she'd ever ask her hold man to buy her, and it means (we also have gift $ limits) she's not going to get anything on her list. So what? The only way the $150 or so I spend on her for Christmas is going to mean anything to her is if it represents her father actually having thought about her. She can buy anything on her list whenever she wants. She'd never have been in that gallery with me though, and if she had her seeing the gift I got her would not have represented her father thinking about her, her connections to native peoples, and the fact that I am incredibly proud of her, think she's smart and beautiful, and want her to have and be able to wear remembrance of those thoughts. All of those things will be in the gift I got her.

There are degrees, I think, to what OP is saying.
In your example, Steve, you know the recipient well and chose a unique gift that you have some idea already that she will like. Even if she doesn't, she'll still be appreciative of the careful thought you put in and the gesture made. (FWIW, I view lists from people I know well as "guidelines" and often give gifts not listed.) However, even if I do buy off the list, in the act of thinking about other things to purchase for this person, and ultimately purchasing from the list, I have still invested time and energy into thinking about the recipient and what he/she may like. I don't believe that should be discounted.

In other cases, where you may not know the recipient as well, going by the list makes more sense. Of course, if you ignore the list and put little to no effort into a thoughtful alternative, then that's where things get frustrating.

TL;DR - nothing is black and white. And Steve, I hope your daughter loves her gift.

Edwin Santos

12-20-2018, 7:11 PM

Tried that the last five years or so of my dad's life, but so did he, so we ended up most of the time with two more-or-less identical gift cards crossing in the mail, which was kind of pointless. And not just at Christmas: our birthdays were only a week apart.

Never thought about it like this, but maybe this could be called "zero sum gifting".

Lee Schierer

12-20-2018, 7:33 PM

P.S. Bagley's Deep Killer B II, Black on Char is the best bass lure! :eek:;):D

I have several of those and guard them closely. One time I was trolling one and caught two bass at the same time one on each treble hook. Small mouth in Lake Erie can't resist them in the spring, we've caught many 19-20" small mouth with them. Some of mine have teeth marks from the pickeral that have grabbed them.

Lee DeRaud

12-20-2018, 8:18 PM

Just for the record, I am not anti-gift-card: they are perfect gifts for the children of close friends at holiday time.

Doug Garson

12-20-2018, 10:15 PM

I did exactly this this Christmas for my daughter. Each adult in our family gets a gift for exactly one other adult, so she emailed me a list. I was traveling on business, and had an afternoon off, so went to a native artisan's gallery, and saw something there that, at least in my mind, fit her perfectly. So I bought it. Wasn't anything she'd ever ask her hold man to buy her, and it means (we also have gift $ limits) she's not going to get anything on her list. So what? The only way the $150 or so I spend on her for Christmas is going to mean anything to her is if it represents her father actually having thought about her. She can buy anything on her list whenever she wants. She'd never have been in that gallery with me though, and if she had her seeing the gift I got her would not have represented her father thinking about her, her connections to native peoples, and the fact that I am incredibly proud of her, think she's smart and beautiful, and want her to have and be able to wear remembrance of those thoughts. All of those things will be in the gift I got her.

What you described is what I would consider the right way to approach gift giving. Gift giving should be giving someone something that you feel connects you and the person receiving the gift not just something off a list that as someone else mentioned the other person could just go out and buy themselves. Same goes for gift cards. Having said that many of us, me included, have great difficulty buying that "right gift". My wife and I stopped trading Christmas gifts years ago, our present to each other is our trip to Mexico for New Years.

Ron Citerone

12-21-2018, 7:44 AM

I have several of those and guard them closely. One time I was trolling one and caught two bass at the same time one on each treble hook. Small mouth in Lake Erie can't resist them in the spring, we've caught many 19-20" small mouth with them. Some of mine have teeth marks from the pickeral that have grabbed them.

I read an article by (I believe the guys last name was Sosin?) He was Bagley's lure designer and he said he thought it was their best lure. They pop up on ebay now and then. ;)

Steve Demuth

12-21-2018, 8:20 AM

Just for the record, I am not anti-gift-card: they are perfect gifts for the children of close friends at holiday time.

My Administrative Assistant (who probably doubles my value to my employer and halves the stress it induces for me, and is also kind, cheerful and fun) gives me a small gift each year that she and her husband make in their woodshop (they sell at craft fairs). It's always completely redundant to me and our household - if I wanted one, I could turn it out in the shop in a trice, whatever it is. I still value them, and every one is in use somewhere in my life.

I get her a substantial gift card.

Earlier this week another colleague was observing that my gift to my AA was "awfully impersonal." She was right, in way, but wrong for the most part. It is impersonal in that it doesn't try to say that I know what my AA needs or wants. This is by design. A male boss in general simply can't afford to risk the crossed signals that can come out of buying something truly personal for a female employee. I have exactly zero worries that my current AA and I would end up in a harassment allegation, but I observe the rule, and urge all my employees of both sexes to do the same, for consistency and letter of the law compliance. It's either $ or something else completely fungible and ambiguity-free in this situation.

But it is still very personal in the right way. I make it enough that she can do something that matters to her with it, and I can and do personalize it with a note and card. It could not be much better at conveying my appreciation, respect, and (business appropriate) affection for her, in my opinion.

Pat Barry

12-21-2018, 9:39 AM

Stan Calow

12-21-2018, 9:40 AM

A gift is a gift. I dont ask people what they want or tell them what I want.

Ron Citerone

12-21-2018, 10:39 AM

A gift of food or wine that get shared with with the giver is great. A restaurant gift card or hobby related gift that is used with the other person is also great. It means I value our time together.

Dave Lehnert

12-21-2018, 11:31 PM

I almost never "ask" for anything for Christmas. Call me crazy but feel a gift should be something the giver put some thought into and want you to have.
To me a gift card is just saying " No thought into it, Just grab something" I have gotten away from giving gift cards. I just give cash. What is the advantage of a gift card.

Tom Stenzel

12-21-2018, 11:48 PM

***
2 examples from my past. I was looking to buy a firearm. I had a an exact brand and model in mind and at that point was just looking for the best price. This was pre-internet so into various gun shops I went. In one of the more popular local shops I told the clerk exactly what I was after. First words out of his mouth were "Oh, you don't want that, you want [this other brand/model/configuration that is a complete departure from what you asked for]". I just turned around and left him with a stupid look on his face.
****

Which reminds me, I own several guns and my wife has never fired one. When I met her she said she didn't like shooting. I asked how she could know? She agreed that she would go to the range once to try it. That was a couple of decades ago but I'm sure it's going to happen soon. :rolleyes:

Which leads to the exchange I bring up at least once in the season:

Me:"What gun do you want for Christmas?"
Wife:"I don't want a gun for Christmas."
Me:"That wasn't the question."
:)

I'll bring it up tomorrow just to see the rolling of the eyes.

-Tom

Stan Calow

12-22-2018, 10:55 AM

Which leads to the exchange I bring up at least once in the season:

Me:"What gun do you want for Christmas?"
Wife:"I don't want a gun for Christmas."
Me:"That wasn't the question."

-Tom

Tom, if this ever changes, be very, very careful.

Mark Blatter

12-22-2018, 7:34 PM

Years ago a neighbor and friend's son asked for an NFL jacket from his parents for Christmas. He was a bid Broncos fan and wanted one of the coats. When he opened a present Christmas morning, he got an NFL coat. A San Francisco 49er's coat. He really didn't like the 49er's but his mom liked their QB more so thought her son should have that jersey instead. I don't think he ever wore it.

I agree that the best gifts are ones that the person buying it can identify as something you would like without being told. I also know from experience that is really tough at times.