Question about Drawer Fitting

[JohnM Martin]

I am currently working on my first real piece involving a drawer - a simple shaker nightstand/end table. I'm approaching the point where the carcass is nearly complete, and I'm starting to think about the drawer. My question is about the height of the drawer sides. How tall should they be... does it necessarily need to be "piston-fit" snug or is it acceptable to have the sides 1/8th of an inch or so shorter than maximum height? I understand the front need to be precise in order to make the front look appropriate, but do the sides need to be exactly the same height? What is the rule here? I'm just thinking that if they are slightly shorter, it may be a little less fussy to fit.

I would appreciate any insight on this or any other advice on drawer fitting since this is my first go at it. So far, I've tried to learn from various online resources, but putting it all together and applying it is an entirely different adventure. :)

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Just for fun, this is the last picture I took of it while still working on the carcass. Please go easy on me... I'm a rookie.

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[Charles Guest]

Your goal is usually an even gap all the way around, perhaps a little less on the drawer front ends. Your aprons look fairly wide and I assume the design has the drawer front just as wide. You may end up needing an eighth to allow for movement this coming summer. It's hard to say. A sixteenth might look better, but bind in hot humid weather. Just make the gaps even. It's not easy to do starting out. Some advocate gauge settings that have you planing the entire drawer side to flush, others a setting that leaves the pins just protruding and needing to be planed flush and not the entire side. The former tends to work better all things considered, but there are plenty of people choose the second option.

Make the sides the same width as the drawer front and adjust your kicker(s) to fit.

[brian zawatsky]

Hi John. I think the answer contains another question: it depends upon how you are planning to install the drawer. In the last desk I made, I plowed a stopped groove in the sides of the drawer boxes and screwed a spline onto 2 apron pieces in the case for the box to ride on. If you go this route, then the height of the box is not as important since the fit of the drawer is dictated by the placement of the spline & groove.
If you go the traditional route of using kickers & rails and just let the box run on them with no mechanical slide setup, then the height of the drawer box is more crucial because it keeps the drawer properly aligned in the opening. If the sides are too small, the box will have an exaggerated droop as it is pulled out of the cabinet. Hope this helps.

[Joe. Rivera]

Generally it depends on how/where the drawers slide. The sides can be lower if you have drawer slides glides holding the drawer level when it's pulled out. Other wise, it will have to be a tight fit so the drawer does not tip to far when pulled out.

[JohnM Martin]

Generally it depends on how/where the drawers slide. The sides can be lower if you have drawer slides glides holding the drawer level when it's pulled out. Other wise, it will have to be a tight fit so the drawer does not tip to far when pulled out.

I guess I should have been a little more clear. I do plan to have side rails flush with the inside of the legs to keep the drawer aligned side to side and similar on the bottom for the drawer to slide on to keep it from falling.

[Charles Guest]

What about a kicker or kickers?

[JohnM Martin]

I'm actually following a Hand Tool Course by Rob Cosman and the guiding pieces are built into the frame. Easier to show than explain.

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[brian zawatsky]

IMO in that case you’ll want a close fit since you are relying on the drawer box to align itself. If the height of your box is too small the front of the drawer will droop when you open it. The top of the drawer box hitting the kicker is what keeps the front from dropping.

[Robert Hazelwood]

Try for a nice piston fit. If it ends up too tight it's easy enough to fix. Usually you size each component to the carcass, planing everything to fit snugly. Fit each piece individually prior to cutting the dovetails.

[david charlesworth]

Height must have enough space to allow for seasonal movement.

This is quite difficult to calculate, since you need to allow for seasonal changes of humidity.

Another issue is the movement data for the timber used for the front. Also is it quartered or plain sawn? Quartered will move about half as much as plain sawn,

Finally what humidity level do you have in your workshop?

Fitting tight on the height is likely to be disastrous.

Width fitting can be as close as possible, clearance of a tenth of a millimetre or two is possible.

David

[Andrew Hughes]

The design looks odd to me without a rail in the front along the bottom. Like David mentions careful selection of the wood for the sides is good practice. Quarter or Riftsawn will give you good time to work and not bind up when the seasons change.

[chris carter]

You will need to leave a 1/16 to 1/8” at the top of the drawer all around for seasonal expansion. Yes, this means when you look at the finished piece you will see a tiny gap between the top of the drawer and the upper rail. The sides of the drawer front shouldn’t have any slop.

That said, looking at your photo, I think you will need to add an additional spacer to the inside of your side skirts (aprons) because they are short of the legs on the interior – if I’m understanding the sketchup plan correctly.

P.S. – just found this from Cosman, which seems to answer your question. Go to about 2:25:

https://youtu.be/uvLmP6MwoKs?t=142

[JohnM Martin]

Another question about drawer bottoms... for those that insert through a groove but are not captured on the back, how do they stay in place?

[chris carter]

I think you kind of HAVE to capture in the back with SOMETHING. I use a small screw in a slot. See the above Cosman video at about 3:something and he shows a picture of the bottom. That's exactly how I do it.

[steven c newman]

Usually I add a screw, or three ( depending on the width of the drawer)

Have you heard of something called a "kicker"?
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Guides along the drawer sides do not need to be very tall. The drawer's back rubs ( barely ) along the underside of the kicker...so, when you pull the drawer out..
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The kicker keeps the drawer from tipping down..

[Bill McDermott]

John, Great project to test this stuff. You can glue the front of the bottom and allow it to expand to the rear, or more commonly, drive a screw in through the bottom, to the rear drawer wall. You need to make the hole in the bottom a slot and put the screw in to allow for that movement. Or, you can do as I often do... use plywood and just let it float inside four grooves. :) Also, I want to advise you to test fit often. It astounds me how a single swipe of the plane can remove enough to dramatically change the slop in the fit. Less is more. Like the barber always says... "it's easy to take more off".

[david charlesworth]

Solid drawer bottoms are usually glued just at the front edge.

This stabilizes what would otherwise be a flexible parallelogram!

Some support is provided at the back edge by the use of slot screws. i.e. slots in the drawer bottom.

best wishes,
David

[JohnM Martin]

Solid drawer bottoms are usually glued just at the front edge.

This stabilizes what would otherwise be a flexible parallelogram!

Some support is provided at the back edge by the use of slot screws. i.e. slots in the drawer bottom.

best wishes,
David


Thank you, David. After a bit more research, this is exactly what I came to and my plan for giving this a whirl.

[Phil Mueller]

Typically a small pin nail or countersunk screw through the drawer bottom into the drawer back piece. As someone above said, dry clamp the entire table up. Then fit the drawer font. Use the drawer front height to determine the sides. Mill the sides and test fit. Mill the slot for the bottom, then let that determine the height of the back piece. Dovetail it all together, dry fit and lightly hand plane the height of the drawer front and sides to fit, if necessary. Then glue it up and retest.

You table looks great, by the way. Nice job.