Considering first festool

[Greg Parrish]

Played with a kapex setup today that had their dust collector on it. Would love the kapex but Am considering my first festool in the form of a 5” sander with the dust collector but am not sure. The price of all the festool stuff is just so high. It’s hard to commit as a pure hobbiest.

Can the festool 5” ROS use generic paper or does it require festool paper? I’ve got a ton of Freud diablo paper on hand to use up.

also, if I take the leap, which dust system would be the best choice for the first purchase? Would be in shop only. Hobby use. And I have Oneida central system for my major tools so this would be sander and maybe other similar items only.

Thanks for any i put out as I’m struggling with the price versus reward equation right now.

[Jim Becker]

Greg, I have a good stable of Festool products and while the initial outlay isn't low, over time they have proven their worth as I have not had to replace them. None of them have disappointed me and if they disappeared for some reason, I'd "cheerfully" find a way to rebuy.

For the sanders, I have the 6"/150mm versions. (150/3 and a Rotex 150) The former gets the nod 98% of the time as I can one-hand it and most of my sanding is for finishing purposes. While you can use non-Festool abrasives, it's important to have the correct hole count and positioning for dust collection, including the center hole. While I use Festool abrasives...it lasts a long time...several other names have Festool compatible abrasive discs available. If the abrasive you have has the correct number of holes but not the center hole, you can make a "punch" to rectify that manually. BTW, one of the current 5" sanders can also take the 6" pad which is a nice feature if you prefer smaller for most of your work but could benefit from larger from time to time.

I also use the Festool extractor for dust extraction from all my Festool tools as well as some other brand hand-held electrics. But you can use any "shop vac" type setup you want for the purpose, although you'll want to consider the Festool anti-static hose with the rubber end that adapts to all the tools. You can get a discount by buying a sander and extractor at the same time from any Festool dealer. I personally recommend Bob Marino (https://www.bobmarinosbesttools.com/default.asp?) as a source.

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks Jim. That’s what they were saying at Woodcraft about the10% discount on extractor if bought at same time. For the kapex though that’s a bunch of money at one time. I’m thinking a good sander setup might be a nice way to start. I’ll check out the link. Thx.

[Joe Hendershott]

DO NOT DO IT! I made this mistake not long ago. After one seemingly innocent purchase (Festool track saw) I now have the 150 Rotex, a Midi dust collector, a Domino XL, MFT, and a few minor things. After using that track saw and sander I now curse Bosch every time I use their router, jigsaw, and drill/driver.

It really is that big of a difference. Every Festool product I have used is a pleasure to pick up.

[Nick Decker]

Greg, maybe I shouldn't comment on the Kapex because I don't own one, but you should do do some research on problems people have reported. I'd pass on that tool.

Festool sanders, yes. I've had three and all were/are excellent. Had a Rotex 90, but sold it for the reason Jim mentioned. The Rotexes pretty much require two hands. My favorite is the 5"/125mm. Perfect size for me, great dust collection, low vibration, the list goes on. It's simply a solid tool. I use a Fein vacuum with mine.

I use Abranet abrasives with mine. It's a mesh material, so the holes in the pad aren't an issue, and it lasts a long time.

[ChrisA Edwards]

I have several Festool power tools,TS55 saw + track, DF500 Domino, MFK700 Router, RQ125 Sander, CT26 dust collector and the Multi Function MFT.

I love all of these and have no regrets paying the premium for these tools.

I use the Festool sand paper. If you don't beat up the edges of the sand paper, it seems it lasts forever and there is hardly any sawdust visible when using it with theCT26.

The kapex saw is the one Festool product that I've just not been able to justify buying. I'm happy with my DeWalt 780.

[Albert Lee]

If you are considering Festool, you probably have some power tool in your shed already.

and if you have power tools already, then I think the best tool from Festool is their Domino. the only other power tool that can offer similar function is Lamello Zeta P2. I think Domino is more Versatile. Lamello Zeta P2 is for making flatpack furniture.

I never owned a Festool track saw, mitre saw or a SCMS, I have gave them a try in a Festool display shop, at the time I had Omga already and I think Omga is of higher quality than Festool Kapex anyway. the dust extraction on my Omga mitre saw was 80mm. the entire saw is made of cast iron/heavy aluminium.

Surely Kapex has its market groups and has its advantage over Omga, such as weight and price. you cant carry Omga wherever you go, the beast weighs more than 40lbs for a simple mitre chop.

[Greg Parrish]

To clarify I’m not considering a kapex, it’s just the tool they had hooked up for display with their extractor.

Im considering a sander.


My shop,as some know, already has hammer A3-31, Powermatic 66, laguna 18/36, grizzly 513x2f, nova drill press, Oneida v3000, Jesse router table, etc. from hand tool standpoint I have a makita track saw, and full stable of other items. It I’ve never even happy with my ridgid sander/shop vac setup.

[Mike Manning]

Don't have any Festools so I can't comment from experience but to take advantage of the dust collection you need a vacuum. Is the size of Festool's dust collection ports non-standard? If so are there 3rd party adapters that will allow use of non-Festool vacuums and hoses with Festool equipment? You may have already considered this but just wanted to put it out there.

Edit: Ah, Jim may have addressed this already but the use of the term "extractor" is one I'm not that familiar with. Another word for vacuum?

[Van Huskey]

First of all which 5" Festool ROS are you considering? To take advantage of the high level of dust extraction you need to use the Festool paper OR a paper with a compatible pattern (Klingspor makes it for example) OR use a net abrasive like Festool sells now or Abranet by Mirka. I use Abranet on all my sanders and prefer it to any other. It also makes it easy since I have Mirka, Festool and Airvantage 6" ROS so one paper instead of 3. If you use a net abrasive you NEED to use the interface pads!

[Kory Cassel]

I've missed the downdraft table from the old commercial cabinet shop where I started out every time I've done any sanding for the past 20 years. :(

If I had the space, I'd build myself one in a heartbeat and use any old sander without regard for fancy dust extractors, special hole patterns, etc.

[Van Huskey]

I've missed the downdraft table from the old commercial cabinet shop where I started out every time I've done any sanding for the past 20 years. :(

If I had the space, I'd build myself one in a heartbeat and use any old sander without regard for fancy dust extractors, special hole patterns, etc.

I would agree IF dust extraction was the only advantage to the high-end ROS, but it isn't, in fact, it may be the smallest of all the major advantages between upper-mid-range sanders and the high end. The low end is somewhere is one of Dante's circles of hell to use once you have used a high-end ROS.

[Greg Parrish]

I would agree IF dust extraction was the only advantage to the high-end ROS, but it isn't, in fact, it may be the smallest of all the major advantages between upper-mid-range sanders and the high end. The low end is somewhere is one of Dante's circles of hell to use once you have used a high-end ROS.


Can you expand on that? Right now I’m using a ridgid orbital sander with a 16gal ridgid shopvac over a rockler down draft table connected to my Oneida v3000 cyclone. My issue is that the ridgid has been very difficult to manipulate given the stiff shopvac hose. Not sure if the festool would add any benefit or if I should focus on more flexible hose instead.

[Kory Cassel]

Can't comment on high end. I'm using a PC speedblock purchased at the local pawn shop for $20. It's good for flat surfaces, but real heavy for vertical use. I like it though, it's an improvement on my pneumatic palm sanders IMO. Most other electric ROS I've used are kind of grabby, they want to get away from you unless you have a death grip. Maybe the Festool doesn't do that?

[Nick Decker]

It's a combination of ergonomics and how much vibration gets transferred to your hand. I didn't fully understand it until I'd spent some time using a Festool.

Also, pick up one of the Rockler small port dust kit things. Fits the Festools fine, as well as a couple of my routers.

[Prashun Patel]

A cyclone preseparator for my shop vac works very well for sanding dust. I use a porter cable 1.25” hose with some adapters on my Ceros, which is in the same league as the Festool. The thinner hose is easier to manipulate, and the cyclone (like a Dust Deputy) keeps the filter pretty clean.

Dust collection on thin, curved objects like table legs is always a bear, but for large flat sanding, this dc set up is good enough for me to do in my basement.

I still wear a mask and turn on the air cleaner after I am done.

[Van Huskey]

Can you expand on that? Right now I’m using a ridgid orbital sander with a 16gal ridgid shopvac over a rockler down draft table connected to my Oneida v3000 cyclone. My issue is that the ridgid has been very difficult to manipulate given the stiff shopvac hose. Not sure if the festool would add any benefit or if I should focus on more flexible hose instead.


A good flexible hose makes a LOT of difference. Bosch makes a good not too expensive hose that is possible the same hose as the Festool non anti-static hoses. You can also use expandable hose covering and heat shrink to combine the hose and cord for easier control. The Festool sanders have the advantage of detachable cords so you can use the same hose/cord combos for all their tools if you use the heavyweight cord with the hose.

The best new brushless ROS (Mirka, Festool EC series, Surfprep/Airvantage) have significant advantages in maneuverability, power, control, weight, form factor, longevity and vibration. They are simply in another league even compared to the high-end Bosch which are solid sanders in their own right.

[Wade Lippman]

I have both models of the 5" Festool ROS. They are the best on the market, but it is really hard to justify the price over a $50 Bosch unless money isn't an issue. Or if you are really sensitive to vibrations.

I had a Festool vacuum and my wife made me get rid of it because it gave out a high pitch shriek. I didn't hear it, but it drove her crazy. The important thing is that it wasn't magical; a shop vac works fine. I now use a Dyson canister and a dust deputy.

I have never paid full price for any of my 9 Festools; either a discount on ebay, reconditioned from Festool, or used.

[Greg Parrish]

Cool. I just picked up the rockler hose and adapters to try out both t haven’t opened the box yet. Had another trip today that put me near woodcraft and that’s where I started comparing the festool stuff. The auto on vacs seemed nice but want sure if the sanders would be any better. Thx.

[Neil Gaskin]

I own a fair amount of festool. I like their Sanders, track saw, and Domino. I have their mid size router and while it is a damn good router I’m not sure I’d replace it.

More to your question. The sander I would recommend is the ets ec 125-3. Link below. I have s fleet of their ets-125 “normal” ro sanders and 3 of the newer models I linked below. Nobody grabs the ets-125s anymore.

https://www.festoolusa.com/products/sanding-and-brushing/random-orbital-sander/571897---ets-ec-1253-eq-plus-usa

for sandpaper we order from Klingspor. You do not need to use festool paper but you need to use paper with the correct hole pattern.

I have 2 festool dust extractors and 2 fein. I’d order more fein. Might not buy another festool. The fein are cheaper and in my opinion slightly better.

[Van Huskey]

OP you never mentioned which 5" sander you were looking at, it makes a BIG difference.

[Dave Sabo]

I’d skip the Kapex until festool fixes the motor problems and it becomes documented.

Van is right , the festool sanders are some of the best around. I’ll take a bit different tack and say don’t bother even trying to use paper that doesn’t have the correct hole pattern. Mesh/net discs are a good way to accommodate a variety of sanders. Freud / Diablo now makes mesh discs too. Available at Home Depot.

I’d suggest you look at the midi vac for shop tool collection. Seems to be the sweet spot for price capacity, performance in the lineup. Prob should wait til next year though as a new platform for those vacs has been announced and they are arriving in the euro markets imminently.

Might want to try out Bosch’s ros65 as it’s almost the equal to festool at a 30-50% less. Easily and cheaply swappable from 5” to 6” pads.

[Vijay Kumar]

Festool is a game changer with respect to the sanders you can sand for 20 minutes and will not feel tingling on your hands. Very smooth and balanced. The domino has no competition. Their tracksaws are very good but you can buy Makita, Dewalt, Grizzly and others. Festool is quite good here though. Their routers are excellent too.
All their tools are set up for dust collection whether or not you use their vacuums or some other vacuum. And the dust collection is excellent.
But their Kapex has a reputation of motor burning so that is one item I would probably skip.

One other thing though , once you buy one it is a slippery slope--ask me how I know :)

Vijay

[Zac wingert]

Do not drink the kool aid... just my opinion, though. I have no festool products and have never tried out any, but I can’t imagine when they are so much more than what’s availabile from Bosch, dewalt, etc.. I’m not a professional, but it’s a whole whole lot more money that I’d rather spend on wood. I just imagine that % the tools are better is not proportional to the % of the cost.

As a hobbiest, it just seems silly. I have a 5” Bosch ROS ($70) dewalt 1/4 sheet sander ($50) and two old craftsman 3x21 belt sanders (given to me for free)and the idea of spending about $1k for a sander and basically a vacuum is unthinkable.

[Van Huskey]

Do not drink the kool aid... just my opinion, though. I have no festool products and have never tried out any, but I can’t imagine when they are so much more than what’s availabile from Bosch, dewalt, etc.. I’m not a professional, but it’s a whole whole lot more money that I’d rather spend on wood. I just imagine that % the tools are better is not proportional to the % of the cost.

As a hobbiest, it just seems silly. I have a 5” Bosch ROS ($70) dewalt 1/4 sheet sander ($50) and two old craftsman 3x21 belt sanders (given to me for free)and the idea of spending about $1k for a sander and basically a vacuum is unthinkable.

This is always an opinion that baffles me. That to me is like saying I don't own and haven't tried any Bosch, Makita or Dewalt tools but I can't imagine them being any better than Harbor Freight tools. While one tool being some percentage better than another can be highly subjective it is pretty clear that that rarely is any consumer product that is twice the money considered to be twice as good.

The entire thing boils down to value and that is very personal. Different people (particularly hobbyists) place different priorities on woodworking tools. Someone that is very passionate may be willing to spend far more on a tool than someone that occasionally does woodworking, similarly, there are some people that have to save up for a HF tool and wait for a 25% off coupon and some who can skip Festool and buy Mafell by the truckload without even looking at the price tag. I completely understand the value argument and have known people that tried or bought Festool and for them the value proposition did not work, but I will never understand the I never used them but they can't be that much better argument.

There is a cult-like following correctly associated with Festool but there are a large contingent of Festoolians that will quickly admit that other companies make better versions of some tools (usually at a higher price) and there are many tools that get to within (an admittedly arbitrary) 10% of them for much less money, the high-end European made Bosch is an example. The thing that really sucks people into Festool is the ecosystem, which is by far the best in all of tooldom. Honesty, I used to be in the "they are completely overpriced camp" but then I tried them.

[Greg Parrish]

OP you never mentioned which 5" sander you were looking at, it makes a BIG difference.

I was looking at the ETS 125 REQ-Plus. A combo like this: https://festools-online.com/festool-tool-packages-1/mpn574993-festool-ets-125-req-plus-random-orbital-sander-ct-mini.html

[Jacob Mac]

Just my opinion, but here's how I did it.

1. If you want new, and a discount, the only reliable way is to buy from eBay using a discount code. Buy from a legit seller like Hartville and you are fine.

2. Bob Marino has the best service I have ever received from this section of the retail world. With Grizzly being second. But no discount.

3. No need for a festool vac. They're nice, I'm sure, but there are cheaper options that work fine. With that said, I have a Fein vac that automatically turns on when I turn my tool on. That is such a great convenience.

4. The sanders are good, I have two. But honestly they're not as big of a game changer as tyye Domino. For me, the Domino was a work altering tool. The sanders are just a more pleasant experience.

5. Go used where you can if you can find a good deal. This site is a great place to find good deals on Festool. But outside of the domino, I'm not really sold on any Festool as being way better than cheaper options.

[Wojciech Tryc]

DO NOT DO IT! I made this mistake not long ago. After one seemingly innocent purchase (Festool track saw) I now have the 150 Rotex, a Midi dust collector, a Domino XL, MFT, and a few minor things. After using that track saw and sander I now curse Bosch every time I use their router, jigsaw, and drill/driver.

It really is that big of a difference. Every Festool product I have used is a pleasure to pick up.
Haha, i totally agree. Just got my first Festool piece, the Domino 500 and I am already thinking about a ROS and their track saws.....

[Kory Cassel]

My problem is the basic design and weight of the ROS on the market. While I'm sure the high priced tools are smoother and do a better job, they are an attempt to replicate a commercial pneumatic palm sander using electric motors. This may be what you want for versatility such as doing vertical and overhead sanding. But it's been my experience that a heavy, smooth sander is better for bench work. You just glide it around and let it cut with it's own weight. I've done stacks upon stacks of doors and an endless line of carcasses and if you can sand on a horizontal, heavier is better.
I see they've discontinued the PC 330 Speed Block, shame it seems to be a lost design. Much better option for the hobbyist, but now you're stuck getting the ubiquitous lightweight ROS with unwieldy hoses and buying special disks. My line of commentary was out of line, darn. Still like the idea of a big downdraft table better than an expensive extractor though.:)

[Todd Zucker]

My first entry into festool was the ets 150 and CT 26 combination. It is a slippery slope.

I prefer the ets 150/3 to the 125. I have the older model ETS and the 125 i got was actually called a Pro-5 that they offered as a promotion a year or two ago. For some reason, i just find the 125 easier to handle. The rotex 90 is also nice to have for specific uses.

i didn’t see it mentioned in previous posts, but on the Festool CT extractor you can vary the suction level to suit the tool you are using, I.e., reduce the suction while using the large sander so that it doesn’t put too much downward pressure while sanding and stick to the workpiece vs. highest suction level while using a router or track saw. It’s a nice feature.

[Dominik Dudkiewicz]

This is always an opinion that baffles me. That to me is like saying I don't own and haven't tried any Bosch, Makita or Dewalt tools but I can't imagine them being any better than Harbor Freight tools. While one tool being some percentage better than another can be highly subjective it is pretty clear that that rarely is any consumer product that is twice the money considered to be twice as good.

The entire thing boils down to value and that is very personal. Different people (particularly hobbyists) place different priorities on woodworking tools. Someone that is very passionate may be willing to spend far more on a tool than someone that occasionally does woodworking, similarly, there are some people that have to save up for a HF tool and wait for a 25% off coupon and some who can skip Festool and buy Mafell by the truckload without even looking at the price tag. I completely understand the value argument and have known people that tried or bought Festool and for them the value proposition did not work, but I will never understand the I never used them but they can't be that much better argument.

There is a cult-like following correctly associated with Festool but there are a large contingent of Festoolians that will quickly admit that other companies make better versions of some tools (usually at a higher price) and there are many tools that get to within (an admittedly arbitrary) 10% of them for much less money, the high-end European made Bosch is an example. The thing that really sucks people into Festool is the ecosystem, which is by far the best in all of tooldom. Honesty, I used to be in the "they are completely overpriced camp" but then I tried them.

I think that one can rationally compare the overall performance and features of two tools, but comparing value is not possible, other than by an individual for him/her self. A tool (or any item) doesn't have to be twice as good to be a justifiable/desirable/good value purchase at twice the price - the value placed on one tool over the other just has to be more than the absolute difference in price. So a 5% better sanding experience/tool may be worth paying $500- more for one person and $5- more for another - depending on their own values (and to a large extent likely driven by their wealth as well). You don't see a billionaire making a decision to buy a Ferrari on the basis of whether it is x% better than a Hyundai at x% of it's price - they just like the car, know it's better than a Hyundai and $500,000 more is not really a lot of money in absolute terms to them.

Cheers, Dom

[Greg Parrish]

Well, I’m not a billionaire but I find sanding with my ridgid ROS and Ridgid 16 gal shopvac attached to to be tedious and difficult to manipulate for any length of time. I do run a hepa. At in the shop vac but I’m sure there are better extraction options. But The ergonomics and the stiffness of the 2.5” hose make it a bear. Plus the vibration just kills my hands over time.

I dont have the compressor power power to run a pneumatic with only a 20gal Quincy compressor and no room to add a larger one.

I am also looking at the Mirka Deros system in comparison.

So, I’m interested in the festool, or other, that would improve on ergonomics and dust collection for general sanding on everything from cutting boards to furniture to whatever.

[Joe Hendershott]

Like mentioned above one major advantage is vibration reduction. Compared to the Bosch 3275 I have, which I would have considered a pretty good sander, the Festool has much less vibration, much less. I can use it several hours and feel no ill effects. The balance is also much better making it easy to control all around.

People that haven't owned these tools always comment on the high price and how they are not worth it. How can that even be?

While you can use any old shop vac the quality of the hose (compared to my Bosch hose) is also much higher. It's more flexible, attaches easier, and is softer so it does not damage anything. Plus it is less noisy than my other 2 shop vacs. The price is high and hurts but it lessens over time while the quility and enjoyment using a fine tool does not. Life is too short to use cheap tools.

[Jim Becker]

It's a combination of ergonomics and how much vibration gets transferred to your hand. I didn't fully understand it until I'd spent some time using a Festool..
Vibration reduction was the original reason I bought my Festool sanders...my hands and wrists were going numb...literally...from using PC and other ROS sanders. I started wearing gel-filled gloves when using them to "try" and mitigate, but it didn't work completely. Since acquiring my festool sanders "a long time ago now", zero numbness and great sanding performance. That alone "paid" for the machines but the fact that they last and last doesn't hurt, either.

[Nick Decker]

I was looking at the ETS 125 REQ-Plus. A combo like this: https://festools-online.com/festool-tool-packages-1/mpn574993-festool-ets-125-req-plus-random-orbital-sander-ct-mini.html

That's the sander I use 95% of the time, and love it.

As I said earlier, I use the current generation of the Fein vac. Some claim the new Feins aren't as dependable as the old ones, mine's been going strong daily for a couple of years, zero problems.

[kreig mcbride]

The only Festool I own is a 5" sander. Good tool but the sanding pad wore out (cracked and broken) and for the price of a replacement pad you can buy a new sander from someone else. I own and use 5 other ROS and can not justify the expense of the Festool part or even a Festool tool for the prices they ask. My favorite sander is a Makita ROS with the extension side handle, very ergonomic and comfortable.

[Brian Holcombe]

Vacuum: Great

Sanders: Great

Router: Pretty good but needs an LED light.

Kapex: Nope.

Planer: Pretty good.

Track saw: Great, buy the right blades for each type of cut.

[Mike Cutler]

Do not drink the kool aid... just my opinion, though. I have no festool products and have never tried out any, but I can’t imagine when they are so much more than what’s availabile from Bosch, dewalt, etc.. I’m not a professional, but it’s a whole whole lot more money that I’d rather spend on wood. I just imagine that % the tools are better is not proportional to the % of the cost.

As a hobbiest, it just seems silly. I have a 5” Bosch ROS ($70) dewalt 1/4 sheet sander ($50) and two old craftsman 3x21 belt sanders (given to me for free)and the idea of spending about $1k for a sander and basically a vacuum is unthinkable.

Zac
One of the benefits that you are reaping from Festool, is that you're now getting a better quality tool in the "lower tiered" product lines. Tool manufacturers aren't stupid, they have a product to sell and they study the market like a stock broker.
In the 90's and early 2000's most of those companies made absolute junk.
DeWalt in the late 90's was junk in a box. Just awful. Anything from Harbor Freight today is better than what DeWalt was selling in the late 90's. Bosch was slightly better, and Ryobi was just embarrassing in it's junk quality. It was absolute garbage. Makita was somewhere between Ryobi and DeWalt. Porter Cable was circling the drain and only their name continued to sell tool. Once the best routers you could buy, they were now just plastic and cheap aluminum wares. They were being offered at 1/2 price everywhere and they still couldn't sell them. I bought three brand new PC8529's of the blow out table at Home Depot for < $100 each. I have an 890 from that era that I'd give away for postage, but am afraid I'd still be taking advantage of someone.
Festool entered the market and people bought their products. Not just professionals, but home owners and hobbyists. The other manufacturers saw this and realized just how much money a person was willing to pay for any given tool. It took them awhile to respond, but across the board they improved their product lines and now make a reputable product for sale. They keep the price point under Festool, but there are some good, reliable, tools in their product lines
If Festool did nothing else, it aided in improving the quality of tools available to the "average Joe". Internet competition also aided this.
It also isn't so much "drinking the koolaid", but folks found a product line that worked as advertised. You definitely had to pay for them, but they filled a vacuum created by the other manufacturers of the time, in their race to the bottom, putting profit over quality.
I have 4 DeWalt sanders. I actually like them, bit some people hate them. Everyone of them was bought with a yellow "returned tag at Home Depot. I have 4 sanders less than 1/2 the price of one Festool sander. It works for me.
My drills are Makita's, they've been great I really like them. They've taken a fair beating from me and held up just fine. They've also been left in the garage through numerous winters, with the batteries in them, and charged back up in the spring time and still keep working.
For Festool, I have their TS75, two routers, and a Carvex jig saw. When I bought the TS 75, only Hilti was selling a circular saw of that size on par with the Festool. Makita had a 10" and a 12" circular saw, but they weren't cheap either, and neither company had yet to adopt the guide rail concept.
Their routers though are a different story altogether. The OF2200 is simply the best router I have ever used, and I've used a lot of different routers.
The Carvex is a system concept, and you have to have a use for a jig saw to really appreciate what it brings to the table. Bosch used to have nice jigsaws also, but I can't speak about them now. Milwaukee's are barely okay. I have two of them.
If you haven't ever tried any Festool products, you should. If you use routers, give their 1010 and 2200 a whirl. They're both amazing just by themselves without any of the other accessories required.

To the OP
You can spend your $$$$ confidence on Festool sanders, and Vac's. We are now using them at work to remove epoxy and lead based paints. I'd have to ask the painters which models they're using. They like them, because it gets them out of full face respirators. I still like the FEIN vacs over the Festool vac's and it seems as if the Festool vac's have gotten a little louder to me.

[Rod Sheridan]

I own 2 Festool sanders, the ETS 125REQ and the DTS 400EQ as well as 2 Festool Vacuums the CT26 and the Midi.

The sanders are wonderful, they sand very well, the abrasives are long lasting, dust collection is excellent and my hand doesn't go numb using them.

The vacuums are great, they are a true HEPA vacuum, they're quiet, have variable suction and auto start, and the systainer storage system is brilliant.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy any of the above again..........Rod.

[Van Huskey]

I was looking at the ETS 125 REQ-Plus. A combo like this: https://festools-online.com/festool-tool-packages-1/mpn574993-festool-ets-125-req-plus-random-orbital-sander-ct-mini.html

OK this was what I was curious about. Be aware that the ETS 125 REQ is a short stroke finish sander and while I have them I never use them with grits lower than 180. It is an excellent sander but you need to be aware of its limitations and preferably try one out before buying. The better choice to replace a "standard" ROS is the ETS 150 in 5mm stroke. If you really want a 5" sander then the brushless ET series is the MUCH better sander, but only bears discussion if you are willing to pay the price.

[Van Huskey]

I am also looking at the Mirka Deros system in comparison.



I own Festool (brushed and brushless which is EC in Euro lexicon), Mirka and Airvantage (which as best as I can sleuth is the company that makes Surfprep sanders) ROS.

The brushless sanders are far superior in my view and my opinion of the three different versions I have is the Airvantage/Surfprep is the best with Mirka then Festool behind them. They are all excellent and the differences are far smaller than the difference between them and the brushed sanders.

We had a discussion talking about pneumatics and electrics a few months ago. https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?266455-Air-powered-orbital-sanders&highlight=airvantage

The biggest issue with brushless sanders is their price which in turn dictates value for an individual. I would say if possible try them out, that is usually pretty easy with Festool since even if you live in the middle of nowhere you can take advantage of their 30 day return policy but Mirka has them on display at some of their dealers so you can try before you buy.

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks all. Sounds like I need to try them out before ordering anything so I’ll wait until I’m by the woodcraft store next time. I think there is a Mirka dealer or two near some of those woodcraft stores.

[Jon Grider]

My Festool arsenal is not huge, I bought the Domino and 150 Rotex because I thought they would enable me to produce stuff quicker . My CT 36 dust "extractor" is nice but not unique like the two aforementioned tools, good dust collection can be had for much less money and the bags for the Festool extractors are ridiculously overpriced . I also have a Pro 5 sander , the one they offered as a promotional item a couple of years ago. I'm not enthralled with it although there is nothing wrong with it. The Rotex is truly a 2 handed beast and the two modes are very useful for me. The Rotex has several sanding pads available with different flexibility levels which makes light shaping and sanding difficult to reach areas much easier. I'm not a full time pro but I do make money on my woodworking "side hustle" and the Rotex and Domino have sped my workflow up considerably. I'm also a careful spender so I'm quite content to use other tools that are not green in my shop. I just don't see any justification for buying any other Festool at this time.

[johnny means]

As a hobbiest, it just seems silly. I have a 5” Bosch ROS ($70) dewalt 1/4 sheet sander ($50) and two old craftsman 3x21 belt sanders (given to me for free)and the idea of spending about $1k for a sander and basically a vacuum is unthinkable.
Seems to me that being a hobbyist makes price a non issue. Isn't that the point of a hobby? Spending the fruit of your labor on stuff just because you like it.

[Martin Wasner]

I wouldn't buy a Festool sander. Mirka are light years ahead in my opinion, I've used both.

Domino is handy

Kapex is a great install saw, but I'd never bolt one down in a shop.

The track saw isn't a good value. The Makita is marginally less saw for a lot less money, both use a garbage track. Mafell makes the best in that department.

I really like their vacuums, just haven't had a need for one.

The rest? Some of it's really good, some of it isn't worth the premium. The one awesome thing about Festool is it's all made to work together. Not that influential in a shop, but pretty awesome on-site

[Kory Cassel]

Well, I’m not a billionaire but I find sanding with my ridgid ROS and Ridgid 16 gal shopvac attached to to be tedious and difficult to manipulate for any length of time. I do run a hepa. At in the shop vac but I’m sure there are better extraction options. But The ergonomics and the stiffness of the 2.5” hose make it a bear. Plus the vibration just kills my hands over time.

I dont have the compressor power power to run a pneumatic with only a 20gal Quincy compressor and no room to add a larger one.

I am also looking at the Mirka Deros system in comparison.

So, I’m interested in the festool, or other, that would improve on ergonomics and dust collection for general sanding on everything from cutting boards to furniture to whatever.
If you get a more expensive sander and extractor, your experience will probably be better as in quieter with less buzz in your hand. Strong continuous vibration in your hand is really no joke, we're talking nerve damage.

The final answer to your sanding woes should include some overhead hose hangers IMO.

Does anyone remember that PWW article with the DIY rolling downdraft station and hose hangers?

Getting the hose up off your work will help a lot. I wrangle various cords all day at my real job and the correct staging of them makes a huge difference in my ability to enjoy life.:D

[Nick Shattuck]

I have a couple of festool sanders (DTS and a week-old ETS-EC 125/3), domino xl and the 1400of router. They are all great tools and are a pleasure to use. Don't think you need to buy a festool dust extractor to get optimal dust collection from these... I use a Ridgid wet/dry vac and have it plugged into an autovac switch so it turns on/off automatically. I can't imagine any other dust collector would do a better job as I never see any dust from the sanders or domino (the router is a different story). I added some insulation material to the head of the Ridgid shop vac. It is already a relatively quiet vac and the noise insulation made it a little bit better.

[Neil Gaskin]

Have you tried the newer festool sanders. The ets-ec models. If so I’m interested how the Mirka is better? I’ve thought about buying one but ended up with the festool.

[Jim Becker]

As a hobbiest, it just seems silly. I

Whether someone is a hobbyist, a pro or somewhere in between really is irrelevant when it comes to tool choices. There's no problem with anyone feeling that something isn't right for them, whether for financial reasons or other factors, but that's always an individual choice. As you can see from reading other responses in this thread and in other threads about various "levels" of gear, we're all very different in what we individually value or perceive our needs to be. In the context of this thread and what the OP is asking about, Festool does provide high quality products with a well designed system for integrating them. A healthy population of woodworkers appreciate that and have no regrets with embracing that system and investing in it. For others, different choices are perfect for their own perceived needs.

I originally used the PC333 ROS sanders when I started woodworking. I don't recall what they cost back then but it was "reasonable". The issue was that I kept having to buy new ones because they just didn't last more than a year or two. (and with limited use, too) And there was that vibration problem I already mentioned previously that just pain made me hurt. I bought my Festool 150/3 in about 2005 or so. I still use it daily and have had to change the hook & loop pad twice over that time at $45 cost each change. That's a dozen years or so. So taking the current cost of the equivalent machine ($380 ... which is more than I originally paid) plus two pad changes, I have about an annual cost of under $40 for a tool that doesn't make my hands and wrists hurt and get numb and I can sand for hours with no discomfort other than normal fatigue. The dust extraction is superior by design and that's important, AFAIK. For me, it's worth it for sure. For others...maybe not.

[Mike Fritz]

I have half a dozen Festool products including the two random orbitals you may want to consider. My very first Festool purchase was the ETS 125 REQ and their CT36 Vac. I've had it for six years and still use it in many projects as a finish sander with 150 and 180 grit paper. Two years ago I purchased a second 5" the ETS EC125/3. I already had a big investment in 5" paper and the majority of my sanding is 2.5" rails and stiles so the 5" models are fine for me.

The main difference between these two Festool sanders and all the previous random orbitals I had from Dewalt, Milwaukee, and Bosch is less vibration, better dust collection (the center hole really makes a difference), and better ergonomics/balance. The real benefit at the end of an hour of sanding is I don't feel worn out and I don't feel any ill effects from dust, which means I can move onto other woodworking tasks without feeling like I need to take a break.

With the two sanders I always start with the EC125/3 - this is one of those special Festool tools that really is a cut above everything (just like the Mirka which was the original one in this class). It feels more powerful and really does get the job done twice as fast as the 125 REQ at the lower grits I use - 100 and 120. When you put a dust hose on it the dust collection is great, but you do need to keep forward pressure on it or it will tip backward with the weight of the hose. It's not a burden, just a change in technique, and I'm talking like keep a couple of fingers toward the front of the sander it's that easy to move around. The 125 REQ still gets used. I have hand issues from overuse and I purposely like to change my hand position during long tasks, so I do grab the 125 REQ for 150 and 180. It actually stays upright more easily with the hose on than the EC. Part of the Festool "system benefit" is that I just change the power cord and dust hose between tools, just slightly longer than changing sand paper.

You are considering one sander. The 125 REQ at around $200 is a great finish sander. And yes for the first four years when I owned it I used it for all my sanding from 100 grit on up. But it took a while at the lower grits, and I still preferred it over my Dewalt because of the ergonomics. The EC125/3 at around $400 is a very expensive sander, but it will handle all your sanding needs from the lower grits through the fine and sanding might actually change from a task you dread into one that is a pleasure to do with a great tool.

For me it was a no-brainer since one visit to the doctor or physical therapist for hand issues covered the cost difference between the two and I do a lot of sanding, but everyone has different priorities. I would just recommend you get to a Festool dealer and run each one for about ten minutes using different grits to see if the differences are noticeable for you.

Without preaching I will just say that the "system value" of incremental Festool products is real. I move between their track saw, domino, and sander on an MFT/3 table for hours at a time and they really do work together, making the individual tools better.

[Martin Wasner]

Have you tried the newer festool sanders. The ets-ec models. If so I’m interested how the Mirka is better? I’ve thought about buying one but ended up with the festool.

I haven't tried the brushless ones so I can't talk to stock removal or scratch. The shape and size is wrong looking at them. The Dynabrade shape is really tough to beat.

Does Festool have a hose with an integrated cord? I'm guessing they do? If not, that would be a big push for me to the mirka as well.

[ChrisA Edwards]

Does Festool have a hose with an integrated cord? I'm guessing they do? If not, that would be a big push for me to the mirka as well.

I can't answer that, but I bought a roll of double sided Velco, hooks one side, loops the other. I use 3 or 4 strips and attach the power cord to the dust hose. I also use a Dog grooming arm, about $30 from Amazon, clamped to the edge of my table, to support the dust hose and power cord;

[Van Huskey]

Does Festool have a hose with an integrated cord? I'm guessing they do? If not, that would be a big push for me to the mirka as well.

They do but it is not like the Mirka Coaxial cord as in the cord is not literally built into the hose but is in a sleeve outside the actual hose. I make my own with braided sleeving from Wirecare (available from a lot of places) and heat shrink tubing. I have them made up for both Festool and Mirka. One of the things I like about these hoses is the corrugations from the hose don't have a chance to catch on any thing.

[Van Huskey]

With the two sanders I always start with the EC125/3 - this is one of those special Festool tools that really is a cut above everything (just like the Mirka which was the original one in this class).

Bit of trivia. The Mirka was also not the first commercially available low profile brushless sander, it was actually the Porter Cable 390 which came out in 2009. It was one of those unusual products which was ahead of its time. Its demise may be part of why the mass market brands are seemingly reluctant to enter that niche now.

[Mike Henderson]

Cool. I just picked up the rockler hose and adapters to try out both t haven’t opened the box yet. Had another trip today that put me near woodcraft and that’s where I started comparing the festool stuff. The auto on vacs seemed nice but want sure if the sanders would be any better. Thx.

If that hose is the one that expands (gets longer) when you pull on it, I tried it and had problems with it. As soon as you turn the vacuum on, the hose shrinks (shortens) and that makes it hard to use.

You can make your own "Auto on" vacuum with an iVac device (https://www.amazon.com/iVAC-10031-010-Automated-Vacuum-Switch/dp/B0035YGLZG/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1544841957&sr=8-5&keywords=vacuum+tool+switch) and a regular shop vac. If you want to control the amount of suction, use a router speed control device (https://www.amazon.com/Yescom-Variable-Controller-Settings-Hydroponics/dp/B00U3LD1WA/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1544842037&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=router+speed+control&psc=1).

Mike

[Greg Parrish]

If that hose is the one that expands (gets longer) when you pull on it, I tried it and had problems with it. As soon as you turn the vacuum on, the hose shrinks (shortens) and that makes it hard to use.

Mike

Yep that’s the one. Expands to like 15’. Haven’t opened it as this has me looking at returning it in favor of this new route.

[Neil Gaskin]

Festoon does have a hose with integrated cord but like all things festool is very pricey. I went the low cost route and zip tied the two together.

I hate festool cords. My guys often bend them at the connection point when they roll them up and they "break". A tool replacement cord should not be 50 bucks. But I digress

As as for the ergonomics of the ets-ec models, I find them comfortable to use. Much more so than any other ro sander I've used. The hand hole could be a big larger.



I haven't tried the brushless ones so I can't talk to stock removal or scratch. The shape and size is wrong looking at them. The Dynabrade shape is really tough to beat.

Does Festool have a hose with an integrated cord? I'm guessing they do? If not, that would be a big push for me to the mirka as well.

[Reinis Kanders]

Festool can be nice, but I really dislike their arbitrary annual 10% price increase. No real reason ever given for it, just rubs me the wrong way.

[Van Huskey]

Festool can be nice, but I really dislike their arbitrary annual 10% price increase. No real reason ever given for it, just rubs me the wrong way.

It is a sticking point with a lot of people and I get it. The one positive for the consumer is it keeps resale values high which often allows people to sell used Festool for more than they paid for it, but it doesn't benefit people like myself that basically never sell stuff. I would point out that it doesn't seem arbitrary in that it is not an across the board increase and the increase varies from tool to tool. I do tend to be pretty crafty and never pay full price for new Festool.

[Martin Wasner]

I hate festool cords. My guys often bend them at the connection point when they roll them up and they "break". A tool replacement cord should not be 50 bucks. But I digress


I've said for a very long time, tools should not have cords. They should have a regular male plug built in and your extension cord is your cord.

Or. The above works but the tool cord will accept a standard 120 male end and have the option of twist locking into the tool as well.

I think that would solve, or at least make it so you could get by if a cord or end fails.

Also, make it so the case the tool comes in doesn't allow the tool to fit if the cord is installed. That would help solve the bending issue.

[Dave Sabo]

They do but it is not like the Mirka Coaxial cord as in the cord is not literally built into the hose but is in a sleeve outside the actual hose. I make my own with braided sleeving from Wirecare (available from a lot of places) and heat shrink tubing. I have them made up for both Festool and Mirka. One of the things I like about these hoses is the corrugations from the hose don't have a chance to catch on any thing.

Should be noted that this sleeved hose/cord has been discontinued by festool. You can still find them at a few places if look hard enough though. I got rid of all mine because I found them too heavy for everything; and too restrictive for just about everything but sanding. They were a tapered design if I recall correctly.

I have an EC sander for 5” and 6” and I’ll throw in my contrary opinion: I don’t like it as much as the peanut gallery does. Mine has also been in for service because of a blown ecu board - and others have had the same part blow. Nothing like the amount of kapex woes , but enough to have a couple of threads about the issue. It’s not annoying enough for me to sell, but it doesn’t get used that often. Next to carvex, my least favorite festool. Try it in the store and really use it within 30 days - you’ll get a good sense of whether it’s for you or not. If not , return it and get a reg. ETS.

I also have or had just about every premimum tool activated vac down the pipe (and some screamers too). Wap, Fein, Alto, Festo (nilfisk), Porter Cable and Festool. Craftsman, Ridgid, and ShopVac cheapies. I’ve been satisfied with all of them except the craftsman. They all did the jobs intended, but I would not want to sand all day with the ridgid any more than I’d want to use the festool to clean up debris from a tile job.

What Ive learned over the years is that you need to match the vac AND hose to the job. A small , longer hose is preferable for sanding especially if you’re using it to do walls and ceilings. A larger, shorter one is better for large debris cleanup or things like planers. Sometimes a tool will dictate the hose. Some guys like the. 36mm hoses for routers, but you really can’t use that size with an OF1010 or a DeWalt 611. I’ve grown to like the the anti static type hoses that festool and Bosch have. Worth the xtra spend for me.

Some have said there are cheaper alternatives to festool vacs. True. But when you compare apples to apples they really compare favorably. Other vacs may be cheaper but by the time you upgrade to HEPA and get an antiststic hose or longer one, the savings are eroded. That’s before you even start to look at the turbine power. Festool isn’t the best/strongest but it’s right up at the top. And should you ever want to go mobile, they pretty much best everyone with portability and the systainer stacking.

Then there’s the tool triggering. Plug up whatever you want into a festool vac. Plug your mitersaw into a Porter Cable or WAP tool socket and you’re going to be sending in for service and receive a sizable bill for a control board.

[Van Huskey]

Should be noted that this sleeved hose/cord has been discontinued by festool. You can still find them at a few places if look hard enough though. I got rid of all mine because I found them too heavy for everything; and too restrictive for just about everything but sanding. They were a tapered design if I recall correctly.



Just a note, they did discontinue the 3.5M one but the 5M and 10M sleeved hoses are still catalog items. I also agree the sleeved hose is heavy. I bought one of the clearance 3.5m ones for $125 (I like the tapered ones for sanding and mine are suspended from the ceiling on tracks) while I haven't actually out it into service
yet I figured even if I hated the sleeve the Systainer, hose and cord were worth more than $125.

[Dominik Dudkiewicz]

Have you tried the newer festool sanders. The ets-ec models. If so I’m interested how the Mirka is better? I’ve thought about buying one but ended up with the festool.

I am the opposite. I was interested in both the Festool ETS-EC and the Mirka Deros. Ended up with the Deros because I could get it about 35% cheaper than the Festool. Don't regret it, it's a nice sander. But I feel I would have been at least equally happy with the Festool. The two things I dislike about the Mirka is not having a permanent on-off switch and that without an over-head dust hose boom/support the sander is unbalanced with a dust hose attached at the back - requiring you to concentrate on applying a forward moment to keep it flat on the work - something a heavy sander like my Bosch Gex 125-150 doesn't suffer from (but I find this sander too bulky / heavy in general and it doesn't get much use). I actually still prefer using the DTS400 over the Mirka Deros to be honest.

But on the whole I don't sand much - preferring a hand-planed finish for most work.

Cheers,

Dom

[Derek Cohen]

I have not been on the power tool forum that long, having come from the hand tool side. I think that the guys here like tools even more than over there. And they cost a LOT more over here!

Greg, buying Festool is like buying a premium handplane, such as Lie Nielsen or Veritas. There are a lot of other planes around, and some of them better. But the premium brands are the desired ones .. just because. You have to remember that a lot of really superior woodwork gets done with very basic tools. Festool, et al are nice, but not necessary.

I have been tempted to get a 150/3. I have the forerunner, an ET 2E , purchased around 20 years ago. It is still going strong several pads down the track, and now used with Mirka Abranet mesh. It's hard to justify buying the 150/3 as I rarely sand anything :) - I prefer hand planes or scrapers for finishing. And then the Mirka Deros seems to be a superior sander to the Festool.

I now have a Festool CT26E vacuum. Bought it 2 years ago after a Fein blew up (my fault). The CT26 is excellent, but not that much better than the Fein, and certainly not nearly 50% more expensive.

I have two cordless drills. One is a Panasonic 12v that is now 20+ years old. The other is a Festool C12 (10.8v). I love the lightness of the Festool, and consider that is the perfect drill for a shop, where it is used for drilling screw holes and driving screws. I like the accessories, for getting into nooks and crannies. The Panasonic is more powerful and does not weigh much more. A great, balanced drill. I am really not convinced that the C12 is better. It is just more versatile. A new 14.4v Panasonic looks very attractive.

About 18 months ago I purchased a Domino, the DF500 model. This was used to build a kitchen-full of frame-and-panel doors. It did a decent job. Since then it has been unused. I don't want to sell it (yet) as I hear how it transforms everyones woodworking world. It has not transformed mine (yet) as I prefer to make mortice-and-tenon joints the old fashioned way. I find the result superior to a Domino, being more rigid and it is possible to create a wider variety of mortice-and-tenon joints than one can do with a Domino. Then again, I am just a hobbiest. It may be different if I was cranking out pieces all day long.

I almost purchased a Festool router! It was the OF2000, which was the forerunner of the OF2200. That was back in about 1990. However I preferred the Elu 177e, when I used them alongside one another. The Elu was simply smoother and better balanced (of course back then we did not consider dust collection to be that important - cannot beat Festool for dust collection). I have 4 Elu routers, and still to get a Festool. I'd like a Festool. They are good, I hear. One day.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks for all the replies. I’m still looking to get the CT26 or CT36 with the boom arm setup to become a dedicated sanding station vac. I’m not sure which sander would be best yet for me to start with but I’m still reviewing comments and doing my research. Thanks again.

[Jim Becker]

Greg, unless you have a reason for the larger extractor, the CT26 is the better choice of those two, IMHO. I don't use my Festool vac for general shop cleanup ever...it's dedicated to small electric tool extraction because of the bags that collect the debris from the tools and help with the filtration. For shop cleanup, I have a small, inexpensive Ridgid shop vac as well as the floor sweeps on my cyclone system.

I'll again suggest you seriously consider the better 5" unit that can also take the 6" pad. Best of both worlds. I'd buy that "today" if I didn't already have what I have.

[BrianD King]

Thanks for all the replies. I’m still looking to get the CT26 or CT36 with the boom arm setup to become a dedicated sanding station vac. I’m not sure which sander would be best yet for me to start with but I’m still reviewing comments and doing my research. Thanks again.

Do the research for sure, and you will eventually come to a conclusion. And then you'll end up buying another Festool sander. And then maybe another! I started with the ETS-EC 125 for finish sanding. It's a MASSIVE upgrade over the standard Dewalt ROS I was using before. But like all round ROS, it's not so great for edge profiles. So I got the RTS 400 too.

Now, I really want to add the Rotex to the mix, as the ETS-EC doesn't excel at fast stock removal for really rough stuff like live edge slabs. Sigh...

There's a reason Festool has so many sanders...there's no magic sander for all tasks.

For me, Festool is 100% worth the price for sanders and the Domino. The track saw is great too but maybe not so much better than the Makita to justify the $. And the vacs, well I have the CT Mini and it's great too. But then I replaced my do it all shop vac with a Fein Turbo, and it strikes me as just as good at half the price.

[Greg Parrish]

So I’m totally lost on which model to start with. Let’s say I want something for finish sanding stuff like cutting boards and small furniture items and I’ll be using paper or mesh from 100 to 400 grit. Will any of the 5” models fit this bill and will they use the Freud 5” disks and mesh screen pads that I have now? I’ve got hundreds of sheets of that to use up.

Would the ETS EC 125/3 be a good choice here or something else? Or maybe the RO 125 FEQ? I’d prefer to start with a 5” unit even if I add a 6” for heavier and rougher sanding later.

[BrianD King]

So I’m totally lost on which model to start with. Let’s say I want something for finish sanding stuff like cutting boards and small furniture items and I’ll be using paper or mesh from 100 to 400 grit. Will any of the 5” models fit this bill and will they use the Freud 5” disks and mesh screen pads that I have now? I’ve got hundreds of sheets of that to use up.

Would the ETS EC 125/3 be a good choice here or something else? I’d prefer to start with a 5” unit even if I add a y” for heavier and rougher sanding later.

Any of the non-Rotex ROS options would be good for cutting boards and smaller furniture. I've done all sorts of trays, boards and furniture with my ETS-EC 125, and it works beautifully so long as you don't need to remove lots of material -- ie, you are starting with pretty flat stock that isn't pocked or otherwise really rough.

You can't use Freud Diablo sanding disks with Festool unless you're ok with losing all dust collection because the holes don't line up. To me that's a big part of the reason to use. Also, the Granat paper from Festool is amazing even if expensive.

[Jim Dwight]

I am still resisting although I have a couple festool items (hand sander and plunge base for multi tool which fits my fein). My favorite sander is a Bosch 1250DEVS. It is a 6 inch that works like a Rotex - bosch calls the additional mode turbo mode. In that mode, it is nearly as fast as my small belt sander. Much faster than my 5 inch DeWalt, even when in orbital mode. I use it one handed but it is a bit big for that. I hook it to my rigid vacuum that has a dust deputy on it using a Bosch 5 meter hose.

I have the Rockler hose but I do not like it, too heavy.

I use a DeWalt track saw I like a lot. While I am sure Festools are nice and for professionals where time is money they probably pay, there are equivalents in other brands for most of their items. But not the domino. I will probably get one before I retire. My hollow chisel mortiser works well but the Domino would be faster and take up less space.

[Greg Parrish]

Any of the non-Rotex ROS options would be good for cutting boards and smaller furniture. I've done all sorts of trays, boards and furniture with my ETS-EC 125, and it works beautifully so long as you don't need to remove lots of material -- ie, you are starting with pretty flat stock that isn't pocked or otherwise really rough.

You can't use Freud Diablo sanding disks with Festool unless you're ok with losing all dust collection because the holes don't line up. To me that's a big part of the reason to use. Also, the Granat paper from Festool is amazing even if expensive.


Thanks Brian. So this stuff doesn’t work either? https://www.homedepot.com/p/Diablo-5-in-120-Grit-SandNet-Disc-with-Free-Application-Pad-10-Pack-DND050120H10I/301439866

[BrianD King]

Thanks Brian. So this stuff doesn’t work either? https://www.homedepot.com/p/Diablo-5-in-120-Grit-SandNet-Disc-with-Free-Application-Pad-10-Pack-DND050120H10I/301439866

Not really, unfortunately. I donated all my Diablo sanding disks to a local school's woodshop :)

[ChrisA Edwards]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QltohcYi9uM

[Nick Decker]

Thanks Brian. So this stuff doesn’t work either? https://www.homedepot.com/p/Diablo-5-in-120-Grit-SandNet-Disc-with-Free-Application-Pad-10-Pack-DND050120H10I/301439866

Actually, Greg, I believe those Diablo SandNet discs will work fine. No holes to line up with the holes on the sander. Many of us use the Mirka Abranet discs for that same reason. Whether the Diablo mesh works as well as Abranet, I don't know. My guess, since they're cheaper, is that they won't last as long.

[BrianD King]

Actually, Greg, I believe those Diablo SandNet discs will work fine. No holes to line up with the holes on the sander. Many of us use the Mirka Abranet discs for that same reason. Whether the Diablo mesh works as well as Abranet, I don't know. My guess, since they're cheaper, is that they won't last as long.

It's a question of how well you want the dust collection to work.

[Nick Decker]

Brian, have you used mesh discs? Dust collection is excellent.

[BrianD King]

Brian, have you used mesh discs? Dust collection is excellent.

Yes. As I think about it, though, they've always been low grit disks. So the dust flying everywhere might have been more about the quantity of material I was removing than the dust collection capabilities. So I probably spoke too fast on that...

[Greg Parrish]

So.............. it’s done. Hopefully this works out to be a good all around starting point. Just ordered the following from Highland Woodworking while the 10% discount was in effect on the extractor. Thanks for all the feedback. :)


CT26 Dust Extractor
Boom Arm Kit
ETS EC 125/3 EQ Sander
Abrasive Systainer with 50 granat sample pack

[BrianD King]

So.............. it’s done. Hopefully this works out to be a good all around starting point. Just ordered the following from Highland Woodworking while the 10% discount was in effect on the extractor. Thanks for all the feedback. :)


CT26 Dust Extractor
Boom Arm Kit
ETS EC 125/3 EQ Sander
Abrasive Systainer with 50 granat sample pack

Congrats!! You will really, really enjoy using Festool products. Remember to turn the suction down on the vac when using the sander. Otherwise it'll rock and jump all around on you due to the suction.

[Van Huskey]

I have not been on the power tool forum that long, having come from the hand tool side. I think that the guys here like tools even more than over there. And they cost a LOT more over here!



The general power tool forum protocol is to rarely suggest a cheaper alternative, in fact, the accepted answer to what tool to buy is to stretch the OP's budget by exactly 23%, not so much that they ignore the suggestion but just enough so a very short stint in Top Ramen solitary will cover the difference. :D

I once quipped "SMC where grown men gather to have their budgets torn asunder like the arm of Grendel at the hands of Beowulf".

I will admit our Jedi mind tricks are less effective on those that preferred non-tailed tools since we are sometimes talking about a single purchase that would cover a full set of LN planes.


On a more serious note as I mentioned before there are often tools that are better than Festool (for similar or more money) or very close to Festool for often much less. The advantage Festool has is the system and how everything is designed to work within the system. It is also why Festool is a slippery slope and how the initial purchase may continue to influence future purchases for years.

The issue of whether it is the archer or the arrow comes up across the internet daily and in general the archer always wins the debate, that said even the best archer would prefer to shoot a modern carbon arrow with +/- .002 inch straightness and sorted in +/- .5 grain batches than one made from a green twig. It is simply up to each archer to decide what arrows work best for them and fit their budget and given for most of us this is a hobby the pleasure of using the purchase can't be diminished.


To the OP's later question about the RO vs ETS EC models. The RO's (except the 90) are two-handed beasts that are great for fast stock removal but I find them far too unwieldy to comfortably handle normal ROS jobs. I much prefer a 6" ROS to a 5" while the 5" is easier to handle in certain situations the brushless sanders close that gap significantly. One good thing that has not been mentioned is the ETS EC 125 WILL accept the 6" pad so for $50 bucks more you get "two sanders" (note while odd the 150 will NOT work with the 125 pad). I would suggest you also try the 3mm vs 5mm stroke, I get just as good of a scratch pattern with the 5mm as I do with the 3mm and the 5mm is so much faster. All of my brushless ROS are 5mm (or 3/16") stroke for this reason. I do have several 2.5mm 5" sanders but they usually only come out with very high grits when I am essentially polishing film finishes. My suggestion for the most useful Festool brushless sander is the 125/5 and add a 6" pad.

[Greg Parrish]

Van, I looked but can’t find a 125/5. Only the 150 seems to come in the 3 and 5 version. I ended up with the 125/3 and will consider the need for the 6” pad after trying it.

[Van Huskey]

Van, I looked but can’t find a 125/5. Only the 150 seems to come in the 3 and 5 version. I ended up with the 125/3 and will consider the need for the 6” pad after trying it.

You are right, they don't make a 125/5, the other brands I have do have 5mm / 3/16" options for their 125mm sanders and I had forgotten that Festool doesn't!

[Jim Becker]

Greg, congrats on your purchase! the /3 will work just fine for you I suspect... my 150/3 has been stellar for all these years and i don't ever feel the need for it to be more aggressive. If I really need the /5 orbit, I have my Rotex 105 which in ROS mode provides the /5 action. But that unfortunately also requires two hands to handle it...nature of the Rotex.

[Dave Sabo]

Thanks Brian. So this stuff doesn’t work either? https://www.homedepot.com/p/Diablo-5-in-120-Grit-SandNet-Disc-with-Free-Application-Pad-10-Pack-DND050120H10I/301439866


Mesh abrasives like SandNet will work fine.

[Jared Sankovich]

You are right, they don't make a 125/5, the other brands I have do have 5mm / 3/16" options for their 125mm sanders and I had forgotten that Festool doesn't!

IIRC you can swap in a 150/5 pad onto the 125/3

[Van Huskey]

IIRC you can swap in a 150/5 pad onto the 125/3

I mentioned that in the earlier post, but you can't put a 125 on the 150 since the 150 has a keyed arbor.

398915

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks. Is the motor and build the same or does the 150 pad put stress on the 125?

[Jared Sankovich]

Thanks. Is the motor and build the same or does the 150 pad put stress on the 125?

Someone on FOG did a parts number comparison and the important parts were identical between them.

[Greg Parrish]

Someone on FOG did a parts number comparison and the important parts were identical between them.

Cool, thanks. The specs looked the same but you never can tell.

[John Sincerbeaux]

My two cents:
The 1010 router is my all-time favorite router.
The 1400 router is too tall and top heavy and the plunge is not smooth.
The CT36 vac is ok. I liked my old Fein better.
Didn’t like the ETS 125 sander. Too weak!
Never tried a Rotex but they look like awesome sanders especially because the “mode” option.
For me, the Mirka Cero’s sanders are king. Don’t know if I would say that about the Deros.
I am a fan of festool and own a bunch of their tools, but I think there are some better options for a few of their tools.
I have come close to buying a Domino but my Multi-Router can do so much more.

[Van Huskey]

...
Didn’t like the ETS 125 sander. Too weak!


I have come close to buying a Domino but my Multi-Router can do so much more.

The ETS 125 (not the EC version) is a short stroke (2.5mm) finish sander and many people that buy it as a replacement for a mass market ROS are not impressed. The newest one (either the Pro-5 or 125-REQ PLUS) has more power than the previous ones so it isn't as weak.

I ended up selling my Multi-Router after I had the Domino for a couple of years. While there is no question it is far more versatile I realized after I didn't use it for more than a year I simply never used the other features and the Domino is so much quicker and easier to use than the Multi-Router unless you are doing a bunch of the same joint in fairly small pieces. Anyone thinking of a Domino should investigate the other options like the Multi-Router and Wandel/Singh Pantorouter along with many others. The Dominos main benefit is taking the tool to the work and simple/quick setup.

[Greg Parrish]

Just got all the boxes. Unpacked it all but still need to put things together. Whoop, whoop. It’s like kid in the candy store.

initial impressions are the CT26 is smaller than my 16gal ridgid but way heavier. The sustainers are a nice feature. And the overall kit looks nice. Can’t wait to try it out sanding items.

My my next question is do I need to order a supply of extra bags? Do people use the cyclone deal? If so, do sustainers still stack on it? Etc. :)

thanks.

[Martin Wasner]

Oneida has a cyclone that clips into the top.

I've got extra bags, but with a cyclone they last a long time. Especially if you're cheap and empty them out.

[Jim Becker]

Greg, your first bag will sustain you for a bit, but you'll want to keep a supply as you do need to change them when they get full. (I found mine was unfortunately "over full" today and it was a little harder to get out...that vacuum can really pack the stuff in!) I get long life from the bags, but I do not use my CT for general shop cleanup...I only use it for the small electric tools; primarily Festool of course.

One thing, when you do get to the finer abrasives you may find a need to reduce the vacuum a little to keep the tool gliding. The CT is a very powerful machine and when you get up into the finishing abrasives, it can really pull the tool to the workpiece.

On your cyclone question, if you buy the Festool variant, it's flat and you can incorporate systainers on top. You cannot do that with the Oneida version as it's a completely different design. I personally do not keep systainers on my CT, however, it's tucked under my miter station 98% of the time with just the hose/cord coming out to play. I store my systainers with tools in them on shelving currently with the exception of my Domino 700XL which is a "really big" systainer and I have that on the wheeled base I bought years ago.

[Ole Anderson]

Step away from the green Koolaide...oops, too late...

[ChrisA Edwards]

Oh Boy, I didn't know anything about that Festool Cyclone attachment, fortunately I don't use my CT26 too much, otherwise, I'd be $400 poorer......

[Julie Moriarty]

Played with a kapex setup today that had their dust collector on it. Would love the kapex but Am considering my first festool in the form of a 5” sander with the dust collector but am not sure. The price of all the festool stuff is just so high. It’s hard to commit as a pure hobbiest.

Can the festool 5” ROS use generic paper or does it require festool paper? I’ve got a ton of Freud diablo paper on hand to use up.

also, if I take the leap, which dust system would be the best choice for the first purchase? Would be in shop only. Hobby use. And I have Oneida central system for my major tools so this would be sander and maybe other similar items only.

Thanks for any i put out as I’m struggling with the price versus reward equation right now.
With all the replies you've had so far, I'm sure this has probably already been said but here goes anyway...

First, Festool sanders are absolutely worth it. I own five of them and when the time comes that I need another type, I'll buy it without hesitation.

Forget the 5" sander. Go for the 6". IMHO... My first Festool purchase was the Rotex 125 / CT 26 combo. Then I bought the ETS 125 because I already had the sandpaper. When I got to a kitchen remodel I found the 5" just took too long so I bought the ETS 150-3 and later the 150-5. I use those two all the time. The Rotex 125 and ETS 125 are rarely used.

The sandpaper is a substantial investment, probably as much as the sanders. I bought the Granat 100 packs years ago and that may last me many more years to come. I didn't go with all the different types of paper such as the Rubin, just the Granat, and I've never had a regret. I know the other types have their uses but Festool says "Granat is our most long-lasting and highest performing abrasive and is well suited for nearly all applications, including bare wood, paints, most modern paint systems, VOC clear coats, plastic materials, solid surface materials, acrylics, and composites. Hardened Aluminum Oxide, Synthetic Resin, Closed Coated" and I've found that statement pretty much true.

My next favorite is the Rotex 90. It's multi-functional and great for getting in tight corners and doing narrow edges. I have used it to sand off the finish on kitchen cabinet carcases on two houses and it knocked it out in less time than stripping with no mess.

Overall I absolutely love the Festool sanders. They almost make sanding fun. And I did say "almost" :rolleyes:

[Greg Parrish]

Too late Julie. :) I already went with the 5” ETS EC 125/3 EQ model for my first one. My initial purchase was for finish sanding smaller items like cutting boards. I thought the 5” would be better here. Above I’m being told I can put a 6” pad on it though effectively making it a 150/3 version so my next sander will probably be a 150/5 ETS EC EQ version.

That should give me effectively 3 sanders with a pad change if my math is correct. LOL


Got everything put together this morning. It looks amazing. Can’t wait to get a project ready to use it. Thinking I’m going to sell my 16 gal ridgid and get a 4 gal ridgid to clean floors/counters with so I can store it easier. Unless I can find a spot to place this one full time and get a longer hose

399226

[Julie Moriarty]

I should have read through the thread before posting. You'll like the 125. I went from a 5" Bosch that I had for maybe 15 years to the 125 and it was like finding myself in heaven, especially with the CT26 picking up the dust. I absolutely LOVE that vacuum! It's quiet and powerful. I bought the Tradesman/Installer cleaning set about a year later. Great addition to the CT26. I even use it to vacuum the house.

Some time after my initial purchase I bought a Dust Deputy (regular bucket type) and hooked it up to the CT26. Then I read on the FOG forum about a guy who fried the electronics on his vac. The alleged cause was static buildup from the DD. Festool says using the DD voids their warranty. So I abandoned the DD on the CT26 and hooked to an old Craftsman shop vac.

Festool just came out with a cyclone separator but it's pricey! In the 5 or so years I've owned the CT26 I think I've gone through maybe 12 bags and that was because I was using the CT26 to suck up chips from the router and track saw. If all you're doing is sanding, it will take a long time to fill one bag.

I think you're going to like the overarm boom. I don't have one so I'm always using one hand on the sander and the other on the hose to keep it from snagging on the edge. With the 150s I've held the hose and let it run over the wood without touching the sander. The 6" diameter keeps the sander very level.

Have fun! My crystal ball tells me there will be more green machines in your future. ;)

[Derek Cohen]

On my CT26 I use the longlife filter bag, which is emptied, rather than the paper bags. It is pricey, but a one-time purchase. I also use a black, carbon-impregnated Dust Commander in place of a Dust Deputy, along with antistatic hoses. I believe the Dust Commander is French-designed and built in China. I have had a DD in the past, and the DC works as well.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Justin Ludwig]

You'll be happy with any Festool sander. I have 2 150/5, one with a soft pad and one with a super soft pad.

Kapex is the most overpriced saw ever built. If you gave me one, I'd sell it and buy 3 Dewalt miter saws. 716, 717 or 780. My 780 has only had to be tuned once (the initial tune up) in 7 years and it gets moved A LOT from shop to site.

Don't waste your money on a Kapex. Accuracy is more important that dust collection. A lasers on a saw are retarded and need to be banned altogether. Light shadows don't lie, lasers have to be calibrated and only show one side.

[Jacob Reverb]

Kapex is the most overpriced saw ever built. If you gave me one, I'd sell it and buy 3 Dewalt miter saws. 716, 717 or 780. My 780 has only had to be tuned once (the initial tune up) in 7 years and it gets moved A LOT from shop to site.

Don't waste your money on a Kapex. Accuracy is more important that dust collection. A lasers on a saw are retarded and need to be banned altogether. Light shadows don't lie, lasers have to be calibrated and only show one side.

I guess $24k doesn't go as far as it used to! :eek:

[Robert Engel]

Greg,

The one Festool I recommend to anyone Is the Domino. After lots of waivering About the cost, I purchased the Domino 500 with dust extractor combo. Huge impact on my ww’ing. Dust collector very quiet, easy to maneuver. No comparison to a shop vac.

I was so impressed with the dust control shortly after that I bought the 5” 125ETS sander. Very impressed with ergonomics, instant on/off, and dust collection. I’ve just ordered some sanding discs that are supposed to fit (Industrial Abrasives) for a fraction of the cost of the Granate paper.

Compared to my electric (PC) and air (3M) I would say no comparison to the electric but the air sander is really hard to beat I use it for coarse sanding.

Well, then came the tracksaw. Another huge change in the way I handle sheet goods.

IMO besides the quality of the tools, the dust extractor is where the money is at. So yes, $400+ for a sander, but the first time you use it you will know why.

[Derek Arita]

Wow! Long thread! Couldn't even read the whole thing. Anyhow, my $.02...
As everyone has said, slippery slope. All my Festools are go-to, including the Kapex. Once adjusted, I get 90* cuts consistently. No issues. What can I say...everything works as advertised. Buy once.

[Van Huskey]

Don't waste your money on a Kapex. Accuracy is more important that dust collection. A lasers on a saw are retarded and need to be banned altogether. Light shadows don't lie, lasers have to be calibrated and only show one side.

While I am not a Kapex fan for different reasons your last comment makes me wonder if you have ever used a Kapex or know much about one.

[Martin Wasner]

While I am not a Kapex fan for different reasons your last comment makes me wonder if you have ever used a Kapex or know much about one.

I use a mitre saw daily, I've never understood a laser either if it makes a difference. And I like the kapex the little bit I've used one.

[Derek Arita]

Once your laser lines are adjusted on both sides of the kerf, you can put that cut line exactly where you want it. And yes, there are 2 lines, not a one sided laser as some lesser saws have.

[Van Huskey]

I use a mitre saw daily, I've never understood a laser either if it makes a difference. And I like the kapex the little bit I've used one.

My comment was not about the efficacy of lasers vs shadow lines but specifically the comment about lasers only showing one side.

[Brian Holcombe]

I use a ZCI and a knife line.

[Martin Wasner]

My comment was not about the efficacy of lasers vs shadow lines but specifically the comment about lasers only showing one side.

I understood.

[Larry Edgerton]

Fasteners gave me a Kapex to try, was not really impressed. Bought the new Makita, much better saw for what I do for a third of the price. Just trimmed a house with it, very pleased.

[Julie Moriarty]

I know a lot of people think Festool ownership is more a cult than a logical decision. I suppose that depends on who is buying and why. I'll admit if money was no object I'd own a lot of their tools for the simple reason their dust collection is excellent - at least on their sanders. Dust allergies turned me into a dust Nazi.

Several years ago I had a lot of sheet goods, that needed breaking down, for a kitchen cabinet project. I was so impressed with the sanders I owned, I winced hard and bought the TS REQ 55 (before the recall), two FS 1400 guide rails and the Guide Rail Accessory kit. All total it was around $900. At that price, I was expecting splinter-free cuts and excellent dust collection.

The cuts were pretty clean, after I made the necessary adjustments on the splinter guard. Dust collection was disappointing. Lots of chips left behind and an overhead light showed airborne particles were substantial enough to require me to wear a respirator. Respirators and glasses don't work well together. I need reading glasses to clearly see knife marks and thin pencil lines. I justified spending the $900 believing I could use the saw without a respirator.

My overall assessment of the tools was the track saw cut well. The rails were a pain to connect for longer cuts. The angle guide in the Guide Rail Accessory kit was more a gimmick than a well-designed, useful tool. All total, I couldn't justify the cost. I ended up sending everything back, taking advantage of the 30 day full refund policy.

Since then I've looked at other Festool purchases - Kapex, Domino, Oscillator, Planer - but didn't have enough work to do to justify the cost. Green Kool-Aid may be tasty but if you are short on pocket change, you have to go to the yellow Kool-Aid stand. It's a lot cheaper and still slakes your thirst.

[Jim Becker]

Julie, the nature of a circular saw does make dust/chip collection a lot more difficult and even the Festool track saw system is going to lose material to the air...but I kinda feel they do it better than most any other option at least. Same is going to be true for Kapex since it's a miter saw and one of the hardest tools to collect dust from. It's fortunate that the sanders are "excellent" in this particular thing since they, by their nature, produce a prodigious amount of fines as they do what they do.

Now as to those other things on the interesting list...Domino is totally worth it. :) I'm sorry I waited so long to get mine, even though I don't use it daily.

[Julie Moriarty]

Now as to those other things on the interesting list...Domino is totally worth it. :) I'm sorry I waited so long to get mine, even though I don't use it daily.
I've seen a number of videos on the Domino and it does look like a pretty amazing tool. When I was looking at ways to make the angled legs for the base of the live edge coffee table, other than dovetails, the Domino was the only other method I could come up with that would have created a strong joint. If I owned a Domino, I would have used it. It would have saved a ton of time. But now I'm glad I did the dovetails because you can't beat the look.

I've read the Domino is not a replacement for a biscuit jointer, contrary to what I believed. It would certainly seem it's a replacement for dowels. And I would guess also a replacement for mortise and tenon. But like the Festool sanders, buying the tool is only part of the expense. The consumables can often cost almost as much as the tool. I could see the cost of the dowels equaling the cost of the DF500. And then there's the accessories. That's what keeps scaring me away. If I was selling my work, things would be different.

[Van Huskey]

The consumables can often cost almost as much as the tool. I could see the cost of the dowels equaling the cost of the DF500. And then there's the accessories. That's what keeps scaring me away. If I was selling my work, things would be different.

Amazon.de is your friend for Domino assortments and many other accessories.

As for the TS55/75 dust collection 3" piece of blue tape over the blade window makes a noticeable increase in dust collection efficacy.

[Larry Edgerton]

Julie, the nature of a circular saw does make dust/chip collection a lot more difficult and even the Festool track saw system is going to lose material to the air...but I kinda feel they do it better than most any other option at least. Same is going to be true for Kapex since it's a miter saw and one of the hardest tools to collect dust from. It's fortunate that the sanders are "excellent" in this particular thing since they, by their nature, produce a prodigious amount of fines as they do what they do.

Now as to those other things on the interesting list...Domino is totally worth it. :) I'm sorry I waited so long to get mine, even though I don't use it daily.

The dust collection on the new Makita is every bit as good as the Kapex, that is why I bought it. Add in more power and a huge table, no brainer for me at $475 for a saw I like better. I own quite a bit of Festool, but I am not in the cult.:D

[Derek Arita]

Larry, think I just read a thread about the new Makita being inconsistent as it reaches it's outmost capacity. I believe the guy returned it for the Festool. I may be wrong in my old age, but I'm pretty sure that's what it said. I'll try to post a link.

[Greg Parrish]

Larry, think I just read a thread about the new Makita being inconsistent as it reaches it's outmost capacity. I believe the guy returned it for the Festool. I may be wrong in my old age, but I'm pretty sure that's what it said. I'll try to post a link.

Just read that on amazon in reviews
https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/RHA2N5NJJI97T/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B073K99HWJ

[Derek Arita]

That's the one! I saw another as well, but it wasn't as detailed as that one is. He said it just wasn't accurate enough for him and also, the one laser line thing.

[Larry Edgerton]

I did not see any problem with longer cuts. I hate the small table on the Festool. There are times when it just does not feel safe such as short pieces of tall baseboard. I bought the first slider to come out, Hitachi 8 1/4, only option at that time, and still have it but it sits on the shelf until I need a light saw to carry up scaffold. It too has a small table.

The kickbacks on Makita come from their throat plates being below the level of the table. If you pull the plates and shim them up with tape it stops that problem. Not sure why they do not address that problem, it has been that way on my last four Makitas. Another reason I like Makita, with very hard use I have still not had a makita need work, they are like EverReady rabbits.

I don't use sliders in the shop for anything critical, there are other tools for that.

[Greg Parrish]

Used the new sander and dust collector tonight sanding cutting boards. Love it over the ridgid ROS and ridgid shopvac I was using before.

One question, where do you set the vac suction with the festool sanders? Lower is all I’ve heard but approx where are you guys turning the dial to so you get max suction and dust collection without issues? Thanks.

[BrianD King]

Used the new sander and dust collector tonight sanding cutting boards. Love it over the ridgid ROS and ridgid shopvac I was using before.

One question, where do you set the vac suction with the festool sanders? Lower is all I’ve heard but approx where are you guys turning the dial to so you get max suction and dust collection without issues? Thanks.

Usually around 1/3 from the lowest setting. But it depends on how full my bag is. I find my Festool Mini loses a lot of suction when the back gets past 80% or so full. Just adjust the suction higher until the sander starts jumping around or rattling. Then dial it back a little until it’s smooth.

[Brian Holcombe]

Lower 1/3 for me as well.

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks. That’s roughly where I had it set. Regards.



Usually around 1/3 from the lowest setting. But it depends on how full my bag is. I find my Festool Mini loses a lot of suction when the back gets past 80% or so full. Just adjust the suction higher until the sander starts jumping around or rattling. Then dial it back a little until it’s smooth.


Lower 1/3 for me as well.

[Julie Moriarty]

Something to add here, Greg - if one day you find your CT26 no longer operates, don't panic. It's probably because the bag is full. No need to ask how I know. :o

[Jim Becker]

Something to add here, Greg - if one day you find your CT26 no longer operates, don't panic. It's probably because the bag is full. No need to ask how I know. :o

Ummmm...welll....err.....um....last week. ;) :o:p:):D

[Martin Wasner]

question. Why turn the vacuum down? We run our vacs at full tilt for sanding. I'm not seeing a downside.

[Van Huskey]

question. Why turn the vacuum down? We run our vacs at full tilt for sanding. I'm not seeing a downside.


The only reason is when there is enough suction to suck the sander down onto the work. This is more likely on smaller sanders but I have rarely noticed even with significantly more CFM than a CT can produce.

[Martin Wasner]

The only reason is when there is enough suction to suck the sander down onto the work. This is more likely on smaller sanders but I have rarely noticed even with significantly more CFM than a CT can produce.


I haven't noticed it with our Oneida Dust cobra or whatever their overgrown shop vac is called. In fact, I don't notice a difference between that, and a normal shop vac. I just figured both were adequate.

Or, the Mirka sander bleeds enough suction around the pad and it isn't possible?

[Van Huskey]

I haven't noticed it with our Oneida Dust cobra or whatever their overgrown shop vac is called. In fact, I don't notice a difference between that, and a normal shop vac. I just figured both were adequate.

Or, the Mirka sander bleeds enough suction around the pad and it isn't possible?

I use the Dust Cobra as well but I can't really compare the Mirka to the Festool because I only have a 6" Mirka and the only time I have noticed too much suction is with the 2mm stroke 5" ETS 125 and even then it seems to only be very high grits. The funniest thing I have ever seen with sander suction was the Dust Cobras ability to literally hold a PC drywall sander stuck to the wall.

[William Currier]

Returning to the OP, I buy and use Festool when the tool meets the need. Some I like more than others.

My 150 sander is one of my favorite tools period - any type, any brand. It gets used on EVERYTHING and the results are controllable and predictable. Lay in a good supply of sandpaper and you’re good to go. I also have the Festool inline sander. It’s a unique tool and I use it a lot, but there’s a learning curve to controlling it. It got a real workout recently on a set of built-ins for my living room where it did most of the finish sanding, including scuff sanding between paint coats, plus first “rub out” on the finish coat. Though brushed, the result looks better than most spray jobs.

I use my Fein Turbo II vac (appx. 20 years old) more than I do my Festool vac. Just as quiet, better suction, and I just think it rolls and stores easier, plus I have a really long hose for it. You can buy adapters for just about any vac hose to fit Festool’s vacuum port.

For joinery, I use both pocket screws and my domino ... it just depends on the project and the issues presented by the particular joint. The domino is a *terrific* machine and is exceedingly well-built, but has its nuances, mostly around vertical alignment and reference surfaces. You can easily find yourself with a pile of miscut or misaligned pieces when you have domino joints going in multiple joints in different planes. Learn to use it properly, develop a good marking system, plan your sequence of “cuts”, and don’t skip test fitting before glue-up.

I have the Festool Carvex and love it for deep cuts. I don’t especially like the tool’s ergonomics, though, and reach for my Bosch jigsaw for everything else. Using the Carvex with a Festool rail, BTW, simply sucks.

No track saw yet. I’ll probably buy the Bosch eventually, as it’s been released in the US, but I’m quite happy with a table saw anyway. I also haven’t been particularly drawn to Festool’s routers - but I’m not much of a router user anyway. I have a Bosch plunge and an older PC that work well for what I need.

You just to consider your preferred workflow. A big part of the Festool draw (legitimately) is the level of integration. I get it, I really do, but I really don’t have a need to change what I do.

A recent project - a yarn swift for my wife - is a good example. I worked unplanned, only rough ideas of dimensions in my mind, and using 100% hardwood scrap. The result was excellent. It’s an odd, if interesting mix of mahogany, purpleheart, white oak, walnut, and mahogany ... with cam followers for bearings, blue t-tracks, and red Woodpecker’s knobs! Somehow it all works together! Lots of small pieces, revision, and cut-to-fit. Very easy on a table saw with a decent crosscut sled.

Oh, and since I haven’t replaced my jointer or planer since moving, I’ve been working mostly to wood thickness as purchased - again, adjusting joint fit and design on the fly. I do rip to thickness where I can. Not sure how I’d do any of it with Festool, though no doubt it can be done.

[Jim Becker]

question. Why turn the vacuum down? We run our vacs at full tilt for sanding. I'm not seeing a downside.
You may start to notice it more when you get to finer abrasives because there is less air space between the sander and the workpiece...it can start to get/feel "sticky" and impede movement of the sander over the material. It's certainly a subjective thing, of course. I run mine relatively high since a lot of the time I'm using 80 and 100 abrasives and just dial it down a little when I'm doing finish sanding up through 180. It's a nice feature to have and again, it's a personal choice on what works best.