OMGA questions

[Brian Holcombe]

Looking into OMGA saws, and I'm wondering what the capability is of these saws in terms of their accuracy. Is the finished cut very precise?

I'm using the Kapex now and when it is used for carpentry type work it is pretty spot on, but in heavier woods it will leave a slight convexity to the cut along z-axis. I assume it is not quite rigid enough for crosscutting thick hardwoods.

The downside to the OMGA is a limitation in capacity but anymore I'm starting to feel that this is a sacrifice worth making and that larger surfaces will simply have to be cut using something else.

I'm looking at the belt drive saws used and waiting on a deal or if I buy new it will be one of the direct drive saws, likely the IP300

[Sam Beagle]

I have the kapex and a 6 year old omga saw. 3 phase. Forget the model. They are completely different machines. The omga leaves an absolutely perfect edge. The Festool is a great saw too, but nothing like my omga saw. I use the Festool for site work mostly since getting the beast.

[Brian Holcombe]

Thank you, Sam!

[Patrick Walsh]

Brian!

I thought no more new machines.

This is a sickness. For me the sickness is a complete lack of patients and or accepting anything less than perfection in a machine or the work I make.

So what are you gonna paint it midnight blue gray and green and hope the wife thinks it’s a kapex ;)

[Brian Holcombe]

Haha, that is a good strategy! Try as I might, I just can't help but look to see what's out there. :D

[Jim Becker]

Patrick, there's not a tool in Brian's arsenal that isn't top-notch....at least that I saw when I visited him not long ago. He has very good taste in tools!

Brian, that thing you ask about seems to be a beast...nice that it has an induction motor, too. Less of a screamer perhaps?

[Patrick Walsh]

I know of a guy up in Connecticut with one of every Omga looking to sell.

Only problem is he is not coming even close to giving them away. He is looking to sell his whole shop, everything is top notch but his used prices are very high. If you want his contact info I would pass it along.


Haha, that is a good strategy! Try as I might, I just can't help but look to see what's out there. :D

[Jeff Duncan]

I just sold mine a couple months ago! Just didn't get enough use in my shop so I reluctantly ended up moving it on. I had the 14" version and it's a tank! Very accurate, very heavy, and very powerful. They are fairly easily repairable if you do something bad to it, unlike the lighter duty saws on the market. And the one time I needed parts the people at Omga were very pleasant to deal with. Also worth noting is that the way they're built they are also easy to adjust for square. Can't say anything bad about them.....except that moving them is a pain in the back!

good luck,
JeffD

[Martin Wasner]

The Festool is a light duty install saw.

The omga is a saw.

I have four of the omga's. I don't have a kapex, though it's a nice install saw.
I buy whatever I want, and there'sno comparison between the two.

[Patrick Walsh]

I keep trying to convince the boss to get a omga. We use a 12” dc dewalt. It’s a freaking nightmare, you have to lean a edge, keep track of that edge, then cut to approximate length so the piece does not span both fences and cut from the same side of the fence at all times. And even then there’s no guarantee. As a result I just size everything on the slider. Sure gets scary trying to size anything under 10” on the slider without proper air clamps or jiggery.

I probably shouldn’t have addimted to what I just admitted to above on a public forum. My guess is I’m gonna be told “your gonna die”.

[Brian Holcombe]

The Festool is a light duty install saw.

The omga is a saw.

I have four of the omga's. I don't have a kapex, though it's a nice install saw.
I buy whatever I want, and there'sno comparison between the two.

I'm still kicking myself for not buying the Omga over the Kapex when you recommended me to do so about two years ago, given my intended use of mainly solid wood.




Patrick, there's not a tool in Brian's arsenal that isn't top-notch....at least that I saw when I visited him not long ago. He has very good taste in tools!

Brian, that thing you ask about seems to be a beast...nice that it has an induction motor, too. Less of a screamer perhaps?

Thanks Jim! True, quieter is always nice. The Kapex isn't loud, but it's not quiet either.


I know of a guy up in Connecticut with one of every Omga looking to sell.

Only problem is he is not coming even close to giving them away. He is looking to sell his whole shop, everything is top notch but his used prices are very high. If you want his contact info I would pass it along.

Very much so, certainly interested to speak with him. Thank you, kindly.


I keep trying to convince the boss to get a omga. We use a 12” dc dewalt. It’s a freaking nightmare, you have to lean a edge, keep track of that edge, then cut to approximate length so the piece does not span both fences and cut from the same side of the fence at all times. And even then there’s no guarantee. As a result I just size everything on the slider. Sure gets scary trying to size anything under 10” on the slider without proper air clamps or jiggery.

I probably shouldn’t have addimted to what I just admitted to above on a public forum. My guess is I’m gonna be told “your gonna die”.

Sounds a bit scary! Neat things I'm seeing about the OMGA are:

- Real dust collection....with a zero clearance fence and insert the kapex does not collect dust well, that boot behind the blade just doesn't do all that much.
- Guards behind the blade.
- Belt drive

[Brian Holcombe]

I just sold mine a couple months ago! Just didn't get enough use in my shop so I reluctantly ended up moving it on. I had the 14" version and it's a tank! Very accurate, very heavy, and very powerful. They are fairly easily repairable if you do something bad to it, unlike the lighter duty saws on the market. And the one time I needed parts the people at Omga were very pleasant to deal with. Also worth noting is that the way they're built they are also easy to adjust for square. Can't say anything bad about them.....except that moving them is a pain in the back!

good luck,
JeffD

Awesome, appreciate the sound of that. I've come to appreciate cast iron quite a bit.

[peter gagliardi]

Patrick, that is a nightmare. Any “tool” like that, is not really a tool at all.
It is a LIABILITY to good and accurate work, and to the business owner’s bottom line. Especially a tool as cheap as that.
We do one of 2 things with that quality of a tool- framing, or dumpster filler.

Tools are designed to aid us in the pursuit of good and accurate results, not hinder us.

We size all our parts on the slider. Occasionally, I wish we had the Omga style machine, but not enough yet to pony up....

[Jeff Bartley]

Brian,

What about a RAS? They're greedy for space but can be found for short money.

Full disclosure: I have very little experience with them but a big mill shop near has a big set up with two mounted about 10' apart. Dust collection seems great with those too.

The Northfield Unipoint is the one I dream about.....

[Phil Mueller]

I can’t imagine you being happy with anything less than the 255lb T53 370. Nothing like an accurate compound miter cut in 16/4 lumber...now that would be cool.

[Larry Edgerton]

I had an OMGA at my old shop, but at the new one I have to run a converter and it was inconvenient to switch on the converter so I sold it. I use a Old Delta 34-080 now, and once tweaked it cuts just as good as the OMGA. It is unique in that the blade is bolted to a jackshaft that is about 8" between the bearing, very heavy cast iron. I'm not sure an OMGA is worth what they cost?

[Bradley Gray]

Brian,

I have an old Delta also. Mine's a 14". Glassy cuts. I paid $300. and it came with a blade worth most of that.

[Brian Holcombe]

Brian,

What about a RAS? They're greedy for space but can be found for short money.

Full disclosure: I have very little experience with them but a big mill shop near has a big set up with two mounted about 10' apart. Dust collection seems great with those too.

The Northfield Unipoint is the one I dream about.....

It may fit, I have a weird alcove that I fit the saw into so a larger saw up until the space is filled is not really much more space consuming.



I can’t imagine you being happy with anything less than the 255lb T53 370. Nothing like an accurate compound miter cut in 16/4 lumber...now that would be cool.

:D


I had an OMGA at my old shop, but at the new one I have to run a converter and it was inconvenient to switch on the converter so I sold it. I use a Old Delta 34-080 now, and once tweaked it cuts just as good as the OMGA. It is unique in that the blade is bolted to a jackshaft that is about 8" between the bearing, very heavy cast iron. I'm not sure an OMGA is worth what they cost?

I’m looking at used and I might just wait until a nice one pops up at auction. They’re well outside of my budget, new, in any of the large models. The smaller ones aren’t bad though and come in single phase. Actually the biggest model comes in single phase also but it is 6k.


Brian,

I have an old Delta also. Mine's a 14". Glassy cuts. I paid $300. and it came with a blade worth most of that.

Thanks, sounds like much old iron is going to work well also.

The kapex makes a perfect looking cut but it just isn’t flat enough to make a seamless joint. It’s frustrating to have a perfect layout and then have a gap probably .002”-.003” at the top and bottom of each joint until they’re cleaned up with a shooting board. The shooting board must also be perfect or that adds another potential variable to the mix.

[Dave Cav]

Given your skills at restoring the Maka, if you can find an old 12 or 14" DeWalt that doesn't have the first six inches of the ways worn out, restoring it and putting it back to work would be a piece of cake. Ditto for a 12 or 14" Delta (I have a 70s vintage 12"). Also much cheaper. Although OMGA saws are great, too.

[Brian Holcombe]

Might be a good way to go, I'll plan out the space and see if I can fit a radial arm saw, might be a better choice.

Wish I could fit this, will cut 42-3/4" x 6-7/8"......:cool:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Omga-1100-7-Super-Duty-20-Radial-Arm-Saw/233038743390?hash=item364231075e:g:YkYAAOSwn6JcDCd y:rk:8:pf:0

[Prashun Patel]

No interest in a regular old table saw?

[Kevin Jenness]

Hard to imagine reaching 42" for the handle on that OMGA radial arm saw.

I found a couple of OMGA miter saws on Craigslist for the shop I used to work for. I forget the model # but they have 14" blades, weigh a ton and cut accurately with no need for tweaking the results.

[Ben Rivel]

Cant even say how many times Ive thought hard about buying an Omga 1P300... Its the cut capacity that keeps killing me. I just love the cut capacity of the SCMS like the 12" Bosch Glide Ive got. That and of course the price doesnt make it easy either. I LOVE Festool and have a bunch of their tools, but wouldnt touch the Kapex until they come out with a new model with a different motor. Way too many people in the US having issues with that 120V motor for my taste.

[Jim Becker]

No interest in a regular old table saw?
I'm not sure where he would be able to fit it, Prashun. His big machines are crammed into a diminutive sized one-car "garage" and his shop-shop is at basement level without a whole lot of free space. (but to his credit..it has a very comfortable floor to work on. LOL) I'm almost thinking that an old-iron RAS might be a challenge for him...

[Patrick Walsh]

Peter,

It is that’s why I don’t use it except to cut checks off my sticks before milling.

If I sent you pictures of the shop before I took the position. Man o man o man what a disaster it was. Gotta give my boss credit though as he made the business all on his own out of necessity with little prior experience.

Add to it in two years I have been with him he purched a three pack of used but very nice Scmi shaoerscwith feeders, a new Scmi widebelt, a used t73 in great shape, a Scmi line bore, a class630 24” planer and miles of duct work and electrical upgrades and my hats off to him.

Prior he was running a pile of old shakers with 1” spindles that were crap when new with clamped on fences that had to be shimmed ever direction imaginable all in need of new bearings hooked up to pretty much no dust collection. They literally just had piles and piles of chips behind them. They had ducting to them but guys would just leave them wide open sitting on the ground. It was nuts but is pretty slick now.

Brian buy the Omga cuz I’m about tapped out and can’t buy anything for the rest of the winter.


Patrick, that is a nightmare. Any “tool” like that, is not really a tool at all.
It is a LIABILITY to good and accurate work, and to the business owner’s bottom line. Especially a tool as cheap as that.
We do one of 2 things with that quality of a tool- framing, or dumpster filler.

Tools are designed to aid us in the pursuit of good and accurate results, not hinder us.

We size all our parts on the slider. Occasionally, I wish we had the Omga style machine, but not enough yet to pony up....

[Brian Holcombe]

No interest in a regular old table saw?

Not so much, I’d like an old iron slider if I had the space.


Hard to imagine reaching 42" for the handle on that OMGA radial arm saw.

I found a couple of OMGA miter saws on Craigslist for the shop I used to work for. I forget the model # but they have 14" blades, weigh a ton and cut accurately with no need for tweaking the results.

Pretty sure it is automatic, air operated.


Cant even say how many times Ive thought hard about buying an Omga 1P300... Its the cut capacity that keeps killing me. I just love the cut capacity of the SCMS like the 12" Bosch Glide Ive got. That and of course the price doesnt make it easy either. I LOVE Festool and have a bunch of their tools, but wouldnt touch the Kapex until they come out with a new model with a different motor. Way too many people in the US having issues with that 120V motor for my taste.

Same reason I didn’t buy it the first time around. Kapex seems like owning a boat, happiest days of owning it are the day you buy it and the day you sell it. I’ll probably keep mine for wide rough cuts or until all of the bad things I say about it are forgotten. :D


I'm not sure where he would be able to fit it, Prashun. His big machines are crammed into a diminutive sized one-car "garage" and his shop-shop is at basement level without a whole lot of free space. (but to his credit..it has a very comfortable floor to work on. LOL) I'm almost thinking that an old-iron RAS might be a challenge for him...

Totally, it is pretty packed. One of my fellow WW’s suggested Graule, their smaller saws seem the best of both worlds and not too space consuming. Out of my range new, but if something good and old crops up...


Peter,

It is that’s why I don’t use it except to cut checks off my sticks before milling.

If I sent you pictures of the shop before I took the position. Man o man o man what a disaster it was. Gotta give my boss credit though as he made the business all on his own out of necessity with little prior experience.

Add to it in two years I have been with him he purched a three pack of used but very nice Scmi shaoerscwith feeders, a new Scmi widebelt, a used t73 in great shape, a Scmi line bore, a class630 24” planer and miles of duct work and electrical upgrades and my hats off to him.

Prior he was running a pile of old shakers with 1” spindles that were crap when new with clamped on fences that had to be shimmed ever direction imaginable all in need of new bearings hooked up to pretty much no dust collection. They literally just had piles and piles of chips behind them. They had ducting to them but guys would just leave them wide open sitting on the ground. It was nuts but is pretty slick now.

Brian buy the Omga cuz I’m about tapped out and can’t buy anything for the rest of the winter.


Sounds good :)

[Jeff Duncan]

Not much to add to my previous post except that I'm personally not a fan of the RAS for precision cuts. I also use the slider for the bulk of my finished crosscuts. Most of the rough length cuts are done on the jump saw.... with the exception of really big stuff which gets done on a 16" DeWalt RAS. Great saw, does what I need it to do, (12-16/4 stock or boards over 10" wide), but I don't use it for precision and it does take up a ton of floor space!

If you keep an eye out you can occasionally grab an Omga at auction for a pretty reasonable price.....that's how I got mine;)

good luck,
JeffD

[Brian Holcombe]

Thanks Jeff, sounds like a plan. I can wait until the right one comes up at auction.

[Jim Becker]

I wish you had the space for a small EURO slider, Brian, as I think you could benefit from repeatable, precision crosscutting it offers and still get some ripping value from the same machine. How much more of the downstairs could you absorb for woodworking without having a "negative marriage event"? LOL :D

[Brian Holcombe]

That would be nice to have, I would enjoy having a table saw. My wife has been very clear lately about what will happen if my sofa turns into a tenoner.

[Martin Wasner]

Keep an eye on Craigslist. I found one of mine that way. The nicest one to boot. Two I bought on eBay. One drink a local online auction site. I think the most I paid was $800, the least was $250.

[Larry Edgerton]

I have an Omga RM700 in storage, but three phase so I just pull it out of the barn when I need it. Still, the Delta's are what I use for accurate cuts for face frames, etc. I would like to have a jump saw, but just don't have the room.

[Brian Holcombe]

Keep an eye on Craigslist. I found one of mine that way. The nicest one to boot. Two I bought on eBay. One drink a local online auction site. I think the most I paid was $800, the least was $250.

Will do! Craigslist has surprised me at times, I found the Maka on Craigslist.



I have an Omga RM700 in storage, but three phase so I just pull it out of the barn when I need it. Still, the Delta's are what I use for accurate cuts for face frames, etc. I would like to have a jump saw, but just don't have the room.

Larry sounds like you need enough three phase machines to just run the converter all day. :D

[Albert Lee]

I looked at Kapex in shop and I know my Omga is superior.

I had a T55300 before, no movement at all.
I later upgraded to a 1990 era Omga twin mitre saw. absolute perfect cut and no movement at all.

Omga is industrial, the twin mitre saw is like $25,000 USD.

once you have used an Omga, you will not want to use any other mitre/compound saw ever again.

[Steven Lee, NC]

Lol, saw that Double Mitre Chop . Seems like it should have a conveyor belt so a person isnt even really needed to load anything into it.


I looked at Kapex in shop and I know my Omga is superior.

I had a T55300 before, no movement at all.
I later upgraded to a 1990 era Omga twin mitre saw. absolute perfect cut and no movement at all.

Omga is industrial, the twin mitre saw is like $25,000 USD.

once you have used an Omga, you will not want to use any other mitre/compound saw ever again.

[Martin Wasner]

once you have used an Omga, you will not want to use any other mitre/compound saw ever again.

That sums up my feeling pretty well.

Another nice thing it's they can be switched over to 480v, I've got three on one 15amp circuit.

[phil harold]

I'm using the Kapex now and when it is used for carpentry type work it is pretty spot on, but in heavier woods it will leave a slight convexity to the cut along z-axis. I assume it is not quite rigid enough for crosscutting thick hardwoods.

So it is just not me with this problem...

[Darcy Warner]

That sums up my feeling pretty well.

Another nice thing it's they can be switched over to 480v, I've got three on one 15amp circuit.

480v power is a wonderful thing.

[Dennis Yamamoto]

Here's a couple of pictures of a OMGA 1P300 I found on craigslist. I just built the chopsaw bench with a ZCI and two 4' fences using some metric extrusions. I still have to add a scale and a flip stop. It does a really nice job of cutting hardwoods (hard Maple, Cherry, etc.), but as pointed out, its biggest limitation is the 5.75" crosscut maximum.

And I was thinking I made a mistake and should have purchased a Kapex!

398716398717

[Zac wingert]

The creek is a great place to learn about tools you didn’t know existed and figuring out how to squander money you don’t have. I am looking for a new miter saw. I have a hitachi that I got for $90 on amazon that has served me well, but I have been thinking about upgrading. Everything else look like toys compared to these. What to do..

[Van Huskey]

Might be a good way to go, I'll plan out the space and see if I can fit a radial arm saw, might be a better choice.

Wish I could fit this, will cut 42-3/4" x 6-7/8"......:cool:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Omga-1100-7-Super-Duty-20-Radial-Arm-Saw/233038743390?hash=item364231075e:g:YkYAAOSwn6JcDCd y:rk:8:pf:0

I want one of the giant OMGA RAS in the worst way. I say the worst way because I don't need one, I just want one. "Fortunately" every time I start thinking seriously about one (usually after looking at them at IWF or AWFS) I come to my senses and use the money to buy another bandsaw somehow that seems sane to me.

The OMGA stuff is built extremely well and if I ever need a precision shop saw that will be the choice, and while I do have a fetish for the OMGA RAS if I got really serious about one I would look for a Northfield Unipoint instead.

398718

[Albert Lee]

While we are on the subject... here is a clip of my double mitre saw cutting a 2x2. First or second cut after I got the machine so obviously the head speed can be adjusted.

https://youtu.be/LHsbzzzZhqo

[Brian Holcombe]

Thanks gents, very much appreciating the input.

[James Biddle]

Here's a couple of pictures of a OMGA 1P300 I found on craigslist. I just built the chopsaw bench with a ZCI and two 4' fences using some metric extrusions. I still have to add a scale and a flip stop. It does a really nice job of cutting hardwoods (hard Maple, Cherry, etc.), but as pointed out, its biggest limitation is the 5.75" crosscut maximum.

And I was thinking I made a mistake and should have purchased a Kapex!

398716398717

That's a great setup! Our sticking point is what do do for breaking down wider boards for processing. We hate the thought of using a slider on rough wood and don't have the space for a RAS.

[Martin Wasner]

We hate the thought of using a slider on rough wood


Why?

extra characters

[David Kumm]

Brand new Omga radial arm on CL Wisconsin. Dave

[Brian Holcombe]

Thanks David, I’ll email him for the dimensions.

[Martin Wasner]

Brand new Omga radial arm on CL Wisconsin. Dave

I saw that one. Almost made him an offer. I thought about passing it along but figured the distance to be too great for Brian.

Another nice thing on the omga chop saw is you can pop spring in the trigger out, changing it from a momentary switch to an on/off switch. I get real tired out holding that switch when doing a lot of cutting.

[Darcy Warner]

I saw that one. Almost made him an offer. I thought about passing it along but figured the distance to be too great for Brian.

Another nice thing on the omga chop saw is you can pop spring in the trigger out, changing it from a momentary switch to an on/off switch. I get real tired out holding that switch when doing a lot of cutting.

Yup, turn it on and leave it on.

[Dennis Yamamoto]

That's a great setup! Our sticking point is what do do for breaking down wider boards for processing. We hate the thought of using a slider on rough wood and don't have the space for a RAS.

It's difficult to see, but there's a Dewalt chopsaw stored below. I pull it out and put it on the floor to do rough cross cuts. I was going to sell the Dewalt but it's still useful

[Brian Holcombe]

I think I’m going to stick to the chopsaw, I’ll leave the kapex for the wider stuff and have the Omga for accurate tenons and so forth. Then sell off the kapex when I can genuinely replace its purpose.

[Jeff Ramsey]

I was close to pulling the trigger on a used OMGA RAS, but passed only because of three phase. Their saws are as good as you can buy. I had a nice chat with an OMGA tech support person about their saws and a single phase version (I was considering buying a new single phase motor from them). He recommended not swapping motors as their single phase motors aren't as durable as their three phase. I was a little taken back by his comment and told him so. He explained that their saws are meant to run accurately 8 hours a day. He used RV manufacturers near them in Indiana as an example; they run OMGA saws all day long and only stop when their shift ends. Had I three phase in my shop, I'd own one (there isn't three phase in the street running by my shop).

[Jim Becker]

Jeff, it's pretty easy to do 3-phase for a specific tool these days from single phase in case another one of those beasts comes up available...

[Jeff Ramsey]

Jeff, it's pretty easy to do 3-phase for a specific tool these days from single phase in case another one of those beasts comes up available...

I've two three phase machines in my shop, each with a VFD. I ended up with an early 80's vintage Delta 12" RAS, which is why I stopped pursuing an OMGA. The Delta is a nice machine, but no OMGA. If a good deal came up for an OMGA, I'd consider upgrading and dealing with phase conversion Thanks, Jim.

[Darcy Warner]

I have assembled several brand new Omga RAS, I was not terribly impressed by them.

[David Kumm]

How does the Unipoint compare to the Omga RAS in build and design ? Dave

[James Biddle]

Why?

extra characters
Bowed and twisted boards, dirt and grit in the wood...stuff like that.

[Martin Wasner]

Bowed and twisted boards, dirt and grit in the wood...stuff like that.

We use a skil saw with a gnarly course blade and the tines of the forklift in that scenario then. Wack it to rough length, then start machining.

If we get dirty lumber somebody is getting yelled at on the phone. Knife sharpening/replacement isn't free.

[Brian Holcombe]

I’m used to sawing the last 2” off, but once in a while I’ll find the tips of a staple dug in to the side of the board 6” along. More often my planer finds it.

Three yards I deal with are staple free, but two others have them in certain species they sell.

I buy rough saw most often so I keep a stiff brush for cleaning off dust before I start machining.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I really don't want to be off-topic, but every time I see this thread, I read "OMGA" as "Oh My God, Ay"

Sorry, back to topic-

[Jim Becker]

Malcolm, that's actually appropriate when you look at the cost of these puppies, especially the bigger ones!

[Patrick Walsh]

I WANT ONE!

The boss not so much as it will also require another three phase line be run. Wish I was a electrician also..

[Martin Wasner]

Malcolm, that's actually appropriate when you look at the cost of these puppies, especially the bigger ones!

Except they're the cheapest chop box made.

Up until the new shop, I had one cut off station, so one saw did virtually all hardwood cross cutting that would fit. Even before things really started taking off, a normal dewalt/Milwaukee/Makita/etcetera style chop saw would make it a bit more than a year. Never mind the cost of the saw, the real expense comes at fighting sub par results.

[Patrick Walsh]

I agree about the real cost being fighting sub par results.

Yesterday I had to apply a simple base wrap on a large entertainment center we just finished building. The unit is like 127” long or something like that. So the front base had to be mitered on both sides. With the slider down for the count sadly at the time and actually still with regard to the bevel I had no choice but to use the 12” dewalt scms stations. I had to work the usual magic required to get a 12” saw cutting square and at a perfect 45%..

Big waste of the bosses $$. In his defense one guy can only purchase so many new tools so fast.


Except they're the cheapest chop box made.

Up until the new shop, I had one cut off station, so one saw did virtually all hardwood cross cutting that would fit. Even before things really started taking off, a normal dewalt/Milwaukee/Makita/etcetera style chop saw would make it a bit more than a year. Never mind the cost of the saw, the real expense comes at fighting sub par results.

[Martin Wasner]

In his defense one guy can only purchase so many new tools so fast.

I dumped $160,000 back into the business in 2018.

[Darcy Warner]

How does the Unipoint compare to the Omga RAS in build and design ? Dave

It doesn't. Nothing out there like a unipoint.

All the omga RAS I assembled were long arms. The legs and frame were thin, the upper part has so much plastic on it, they were just not that impressive. Of course the price of an Omga is no where near the price of a unipoint.

[Patrick Walsh]

Jesus,

I’d say I wanna work for you, but working for my boss is really really really good for me even despite the hours I put in.

I guess it’s pretty easy to spend $160 on a CNC in one go so demdinging that either a lot or nothing. Sadly the work we do just does not generate the kind of revenue to warrant or justify suck expenditures. It’s good enough to keep me fro starving and able to have the things I want if I’m willing to work for them.

So what did you buy?


I dumped $160,000 back into the business in 2018.

[Martin Wasner]

So what did you buy?

Off the top of my head

Moulder $12.5k
Door clamp $23.5k
2 castle machines $7300
Weeke cnc $48k
Software $5300
Lipping planer $1800
Deros sanders $1900
Land plane $1k
About a dozen nail guns $2600?
7.5hp cyclone $5500
Pickup $63k. If you don't think that qualifies, I wouldn't own a pickup if it weren't for the shop.

Plus whatever else I can't think of for little stuff. I know I've blown at least a grand on tooling for the router so far. $1600 for a tech to do start up, $6300 for a rigger to move it.

Who knows what I've spent on heads blades and bits.

It's been an expensive year.

[Patrick Walsh]

Yikes,

You must need the stuff, hence have the work.

That’s a great thing.

I can still remeber the last time the bottom fell out. I was doing residential construction. It hurt!


Off the top of my head

Moulder $12.5k
Door clamp $23.5k
2 castle machines $7300
Weeke cnc $48k
Software $5300
Lipping planer $1800
Deros sanders $1900
Land plane $1k
About a dozen nail guns $2600?
7.5hp cyclone $5500
Pickup $63k. If you don't think that qualifies, I wouldn't own a pickup if it weren't for the shop.

Plus whatever else I can't think of for little stuff. I know I've blown at least a grand on tooling for the router so far. $1600 for a tech to do start up, $6300 for a rigger to move it.

Who knows what I've spent on heads blades and bits.

It's been an expensive year.

[Martin Wasner]

Yikes,

You must need the stuff, hence have the work.

That’s a great thing.

I can still remeber the last time the bottom fell out. I was doing residential construction. It hurt!


My shop running at full tilt can crank. We're a little slow right now, but by mid January we should be right back where we belong, 2-3 weeks behind.

I've always played it REALLY safe. I borrowed about half that and burned cash on the other half. I hate borrowing money.

I'm taking a risk and putting some other plans on hold briefly. The biggest one being paying off my building a year sooner. Next year is recovery mode, building up capital again and putting myself back in the safe zone financially. Both the business and the me personally. We're courting a couple of new builders that look promising so I don't have so many eggs in one basket.

I didn't want to buy a new pickup, but my old one was falling apart.

A cabinet shop is constantly a "chicken and egg" problem. You need the equipment and personnel to do the work, but you need the work to pay for the equipment and personnel.... I live pretty modestly and don't pull much out to pay for equipment. So far it's worked well, hoping in a year or two to start yanking some money out so I can maybe retire in 40 years.... Once the building is paid off, I'll go borrow another half million and put up another building for a rental.

2019 better be good it you'll see me as a greeter at Wal-Mart.

[Darcy Warner]

I wouldn't own a car, trucks are like pockets on Tshirts.

[Martin Wasner]

I wouldn't own a car, trucks are like pockets on Tshirts.

I hate the cost, the operational cost, the maintenance, everything except being able to haul and tow whatever I need to

[Darcy Warner]

I hate the cost, the operational cost, the maintenance, everything except being able to haul and tow whatever I need to

If it's got t**'s or tires, nothing but money and problems.

[Larry Edgerton]

If it's got t**'s or tires, nothing but money and problems.

My truck has been fine, but the other one I have problems with..........

[James Biddle]

For those with an OMGA and a slider, how are you splitting the cutting duties between them? Face frame and door parts, shop installed trim, etc.?

[David Zaret]

martin which lipping planer did you get? i'm seriously considering one...

-- dz




Off the top of my head

Moulder $12.5k
Door clamp $23.5k
2 castle machines $7300
Weeke cnc $48k
Software $5300
Lipping planer $1800
Deros sanders $1900
Land plane $1k
About a dozen nail guns $2600?
7.5hp cyclone $5500
Pickup $63k. If you don't think that qualifies, I wouldn't own a pickup if it weren't for the shop.

Plus whatever else I can't think of for little stuff. I know I've blown at least a grand on tooling for the router so far. $1600 for a tech to do start up, $6300 for a rigger to move it.

Who knows what I've spent on heads blades and bits.

It's been an expensive year.

[Martin Wasner]

martin which lipping planer did you get? i'm seriously considering one...

-- dz

Lamello.

Get the Lamello.

The other ones cost less, but they're not the Lamello.

You want the Lamello.

[Patrick Walsh]

Does the lamello really work that much better than the Festool one?

[Martin Wasner]

Does the lamello really work that much better than the Festool one?

I haven't used the Festool one. Isn't it just a trim router with a goofy handle?

The lamello has a cone shaped cutter at an angle so it cuts in shear. It does an outstanding job. You can dial it right in where you want. Like remove part of a pick line when you mark it up with a pencil.

I didn't know what a lipping planer was a year ago. I wish I would've bought one ten years ago. All of our wood shelves get a solid wood edge. We used to glue, nail, clamp, then belt sand and hit it with a da. Now we cut a rabbet in the shelf making a tongue, the tongue goes in a groove on the shelf edge. We just glue, clamp, hit it with the lipping planer and da them.

There's the Virutex and Hoffman also. Everything I read said get the Lamello. I don't have any regrets despite the high entry fee.

[Jeff Duncan]

I bought the Virutex one years ago and it's worth every penny it cost. If the Lamello is better, it's likely worth what it costs as well! Great specialty tools that once you have you can't imagine living without!

good luck,
JeffD

[Patrick Walsh]

I’ve seen the lamello on YouTube but it was long ago.

The festool is kinda just like a trim router but it runs with the Handle oriented paralel to the workpiece kinda like the lamello. You can dial the cutter into the workpiece exactly as to trim your hardwood nosing perfecly flush with your plywood shelf and then like your doing hit it wil a DA.. it doesn’t leave the nasty bearing marks trim routers often do.

It’s not perfect but way better than a trim router for the task.


I haven't used the Festool one. Isn't it just a trim router with a goofy handle?

The lamello has a cone shaped cutter at an angle so it cuts in shear. It does an outstanding job. You can dial it right in where you want. Like remove part of a pick line when you mark it up with a pencil.

I didn't know what a lipping planer was a year ago. I wish I would've bought one ten years ago. All of our wood shelves get a solid wood edge. We used to glue, nail, clamp, then belt sand and hit it with a da. Now we cut a rabbet in the shelf making a tongue, the tongue goes in a groove on the shelf edge. We just glue, clamp, hit it with the lipping planer and da them.

There's the Virutex and Hoffman also. Everything I read said get the Lamello. I don't have any regrets despite the high entry fee.

[David Zaret]

lamello it is. thanks.



Lamello.

Get the Lamello.

The other ones cost less, but they're not the Lamello.

You want the Lamello.

[peter gagliardi]

Interesting on the Lamello.
I have in the back room, a lipping planer made by JKO I think in the UK. It is a dual head model, does top and bottom at once with an auto feed feature- feed wheels top and bottom. Adjustable for thickness. About the same footprint as a small shaper.
We do solid edge shelves as well, and I have never, ever given it a second thought, or look!
We do a rabbeted edge, and glue 8’ rips edge to edge, then cut to length, with just the disc sander to flush them before spray.

[David Zaret]

peter, i'm fascinated by this. you use the disc sander to flush the top edge of the applied hardwood to the plywood? how the heck is this done?

-- dz

[Martin Wasner]

peter, i'm fascinated by this. you use the disc sander to flush the top edge of the applied hardwood to the plywood? how the heck is this done?

-- dz

In this area, hand held random orbit sanders are commonly referred to as a "D.A." which is for "Disk Abrasive".

If the edging is close enough to flush, you just sand it.

[David Zaret]

oh - i pictured holding a shelf up to a huge spinning disc sander, and couldn't for the life of me see how that would work. ROS. yes. that. thanks.

[James Biddle]

so, is an OMGA redundant for those with sliders?

[Martin Wasner]

so, is an OMGA redundant for those with sliders?

It's just a chop saw.

[James Biddle]

Sorry, do you prefer to cut your sticks for door and face frame parts on the slider or does the OMGA offer something where you prefer to use it? I could see an OMGA, combined with some type of positioning system, as being the preferred station for those cuts. (I'm trying to talk myself into buying one).

[Martin Wasner]

I don't have a sliding tablesaw.

I use the omga's on the assembly benches where they are very general use. Cutting nailers, shelf edging, door stop, stretchers, wrap for wood tops, any trim installed in the shop, etc.

Door and face frame parts are cut on a pop up saw with a digital fence.

We do have Biesemeyer stops on the benches.

There's nothing special in the capability of the omga saws, they're just very well built and accurate. They also hold up to abuse well.


There's a few things I wish we had a small slider for, but I don't know where I'd put it

[Brian Holcombe]

I found an Omga with there DC cabinet built into it. Buying that shortly.

For the moment I'm going to have to keep the Kapex for wider cuts, but eventually I will make it redundant by buying a Radial arm and putting it right next to the OMGA, I can probably use the same DC cabinet for both, and probably use it for my router table too so I can avoid plumbing a line into my basement shop only for the router table.

Kapex is fine for wider cuts, but I can fit a radial arm with a 17.5" capacity.

Given my interest in making some changes I have decided to develop a stop which can be bolt onto regular aluminum extrusions and flips up, I plan to build it for the chop saw and for the FD-250 mortiser. Something a bit heavier duty that the average stuff floating about but less space consuming than the really nice industrial type stuff.

[Martin Wasner]

I found an Omga with there DC cabinet built into it. Buying that shortly.


I'm curious how that cabinet works. I've seen them, but I always have the saw built into a bench, never a stand alone tool.

I keep prowling Craigslist and ebay hoping another one will pop up close and for a reasonable price. The one on my personal bench is beat to crap. Still cuts well, but it's all jacked up and takes some patience to deal with the jacked-up'dness of it.

Since you have a mill at your disposal, I'd recommend making new fences right off the bat. The factory ones are cast aluminum and are missing a lot of material right around the blade. They will bow in towards the blade over time. I keep meaning to have some new ones made for all of mine that are beefier.

[Brian Holcombe]

Thanks for the tip Martin, I’ll make up something heavy for that. I have a piece of 3” x 2” x 12” aluminum so that may come in handy for one half. I’ll probably set it up so that one side is undercut for mitering and one is left square.

Edit:

Looks like the biggest of the saws have a heavy cast iron fence with a sacrificial aluminum insert, I think I’ll duplicate that setup using cast iron and aluminum.

[Martin Wasner]

My Derda might be cast iron fences, but they aren't great either. You'll see when you get one, It'd be super easy to improve the design and make them way over built

[Brian Holcombe]

Awesome, overbuilt is a good direction to head. Making cast iron fences is practically becoming my hobby. :D

[brent stanley]

I'm bringing one of these back to life soon. Should be pretty terrifying on first startup!

B

400745

[Brian Holcombe]

Cool, best of luck with the restoration. Looks pretty sturdy, what size is it?

[brent stanley]

Cool, best of luck with the restoration. Looks pretty sturdy, what size is it?

Hi Brian, it's a Wadkin CC2, and swings an 18" blade, but the arbour will take trenching heads and moulding heads. Will crosscut 32 inches plus, and swings 45 degrees one way and 60 the other.

[Brian Holcombe]

It dwarfs the pallet, looks massive.

Did they make a smaller version? I wouldn’t mind hunting down some old arn for this task.

[Sean Tracey]

In this area, hand held random orbit sanders are commonly referred to as a "D.A." which is for "Disk Abrasive".

If the edging is close enough to flush, you just sand it.

I think D.A. means dual action. As opposed to the type that just spin in circles only and leave swirls.

[brent stanley]

It dwarfs the pallet, looks massive.

Did they make a smaller version? I wouldn’t mind hunting down some old arn for this task.

Look up the CD. It's very very beefy.....twice the heft of any OMGA I've ever seen.....but with shorter stroke than the CC. Bearings that the units run on are very far apart for tremendous stiffness and the runners are just drill rod, so easily replaced if needed.



B

[Jim Becker]

Brent, you're going to need a whole extra building just for that saw! Sheesh! A monster!

[Martin Wasner]

I think D.A. means dual action. As opposed to the type that just spin in circles only and leave swirls.


Could be. I was always told disk abrasive.

ROS, DA, sander.... :D

[Brian Holcombe]

Look up the CD. It's very very beefy.....twice the heft of any OMGA I've ever seen.....but with shorter stroke than the CC. Bearings that the units run on are very far apart for tremendous stiffness and the runners are just drill rod, so easily replaced if needed.



B

Will do! Thank you.

[Joe Calhoon]

Brian,
Graule is another saw to consider. Sturdy cast iron construction but small footprint in size. Not a typical radial arm that rips dados etc but very accurate in all the settings for angles and compound cuts. The large easy to read scale has positive stops for 90 in both directions. With a 14” blade this will cut about 5 1/2” thick. Works to a zero point like the Unipoint.
we still use our sliding saw for any accurate cross and angle cuts but I can always depend on the Graule to be square in both directions for cross cuts. Unlike the many Dewalts I have owned.
Not easy to find used in the US. They got burned years ago with Hofmann in the Mahagany Masterpieces disaster and not keen on the US market. They are made in the same area of Germany that Okoma, Baurele, Olpold, Lietz tooling and other famous tool companies originated.

We still use the Dewalt for rough cross cutting to save the blade on the Graule.
400758
400759
400760
400761

[Brian Holcombe]

Thanks Joe! Very much appreciate the photos. That's the first Graule I've seen detailed photos of. Chris Hall and I were talking about Graule saws not long ago (he recommended them as well). They appear to me as the ultimate choice, given that they don't consume a lot of space, they're very sturdy and have a very decent size capacity and made of cast iron.

The small saw would likely work for me, the 85N and it looks like they're made with dual voltage 230v and 400v, I assume the 230v can work on standard US electric without a transformer, so maybe it would be worth bringing a used one over from EU. Only trouble I've had in that regard, so far, is the cost of shipping and very few shippers want to deal with used equipment. If the cost of shipping could be somehow made reasonable I think that would be my plan of action.

[Joe Calhoon]

Hi Brian,
i would think with a transformer a Europe model could work. Don’t know if the 50hz would cause a problem.
mine was configured for the US but it is Single phase 220. It runs a little hot and that has been my experience with single phase from Europe. I talked to Graule and they said they could supply a 3 phase 60 hertz motor for this if I ever need a new motor.

[Brian Holcombe]

Now that you mention it, I think the single phase euro motors I have do the same. The 3 phase motors tend to remain pretty moderate in terms of temperature.

Ah, good to know that they can supply 3ph 60hz motors.

Much appreciated, that saw will make the bucket list. I try to do these acquisitions fairly slowly, but that will likely be the saw that I allow me to fully replace the function of the Kapex.

[David Kumm]

I like that Graule. A 50 hz three phase could be run off a vfd. I don't need another saw but that tempts me. Joe always has the neatest stuff. Wait until he talks about the hoffmann shaper. Dave

[Brian Holcombe]

Thanks David, that is a very good idea.

Hofmann equipment, from what I’ve seen is just incredible. The bases are cast iron sections, that I believe bolt together. I seem to always show up to late when anything Hofmann goes up for sale.

[David Kumm]

Brian, a couple more guys and we can send Joe on a group buy when he visits shop in Europe. Container shipping is reasonable if someone has the relationships for good used stuff. Dave

[Jeff Bartley]

Brian, a couple more guys and we can send Joe on a group buy when he visits shop in Europe. Container shipping is reasonable if someone has the relationships for good used stuff. Dave

Now you've done it Dave! Do you realize how many heads are spinning right now at the suggestion of a container of used euro machines!!

[David Kumm]

Better to beg forgiveness than ask permission. Dave

[Patrick Walsh]

Oh boy,

I think I wet myself...

[Brian Holcombe]

I like the direction this thread has gone! :D :D :D

[Joe Calhoon]

I like that Graule. A 50 hz three phase could be run off a vfd. I don't need another saw but that tempts me. Joe always has the neatest stuff. Wait until he talks about the hoffmann shaper. Dave

I was reading some of the 3 phase posts on the FOG Dave. I did not realize that a VFD will change the frequency. That would make running a Euro machine easy.

[David Kumm]

VFd can also step down voltage so if you can transform to 440 ( 480 ), you can run 380 Euro voltage or if you want to run a motor at 120 hz, in certain circumstances you can program the vfd to take the 440 input and convert to 220 @ 60 hz and 440 at 120 assuming the motor is wired at 220 @ 60hz . Dave. Dave

[Martin Wasner]

VFd can also step down voltage so if you can transform to 440 ( 480 ), you can run 380 Euro voltage or if you want to run a motor at 120 hz, in certain circumstances you can program the vfd to take the 440 input and convert to 220 @ 60 hz and 440 at 120 assuming the motor is wired at 220 @ 60hz . Dave. Dave

I hadn't thought of that.

Hoffman has an importer in the US.

They have a shaper where the spindle tilts forward to something like 95º. How cool is that?! I don't know what I'd use it for, but I'd sure like one.

I'm guessing the price of entry might turn my stomach though.

[Patrick Walsh]

I pricedout and almost purchased one of theirs shapers when I purchased my jointer.

I think like 9-12hp tilting one way spindle. Side mount sliding table, and digital up down and tilt of spindle. I think it was like $43k or something like that.

I don’t like the the side mount sliding table they use so I hesitated while I wrapped my head around what I really want vrs want and can afford. I’m pretty much decided on a brand new t12 with side mount tenon table. I give up the tilt function but I’ll just get a older Machine with the tilt function.

I’ll say this I was pretty sold on the Hoffman jointer with extended infeed and out feed table till I figured out I couldn’t fit it in the freight elevator at work. I also figured resale of Martin is way better.

[brent stanley]

I like the direction this thread has gone! :D :D :D

Reasonable price for a compact footprint and impressive capacity.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wadkin-CD-Cross-cut-saw-1000-00-Vat/153335167291?hash=item23b37cf93b:g:TOoAAOSwHctbuxs ~&redirect=mobile

B

[Brian Holcombe]

Thank you! Much appreciated.

[Jeff Duncan]

Brian, a couple more guys and we can send Joe on a group buy when he visits shop in Europe. Container shipping is reasonable if someone has the relationships for good used stuff. Dave

What..... someone mention sending a container of machinery from Europe!!! I'm not in the market for anything at the moment.... but that could probably change pretty quickly:D

[David Kumm]

Jeff, I all ready counted you as in. Dave

[Martin Wasner]

Jeff, I all ready counted you as in. Dave

Ha! Put me on the mailing list as well then.

[Brian Holcombe]

I’m in, I’ll hunt down a used Graule.

[Jeff Bartley]

In all seriousness: I have a pal who deals in European car/van stuff, he's filled a container a couple times for bulk purchases, or has been part of filling a container. I'll ask him for details.

His shipments have all come through Baltimore so both Brian and I are relatively close.

This is dangerous territory.........!!

[David Kumm]

Speaking of danger, for those of you interested in an old Martin planer, check out BOYD on owwm.org. Dave

[Jeff Bartley]

Speaking of danger, for those of you interested in an old Martin planer, check out BOYD on owwm.org. Dave

I saw that the other day......check it again, the list is getting longer: another Maka and a T75. I wish I didn't have so many balls in the air right now.

[Brian Holcombe]

OMGA!

It's arrived, very happy. I cleaned the blade as someone was using it as a wood burning tool but somehow the teeth still feel very sharp to me. I may replace the blade with something else soon enough. I liked my Miter pro from Tenryu. Hooked up both the DC and the Saw to a box on the back of the cabinet so that I can run one wire to the plug.

Martin's right on about the fence, it's kind of lame. So I will make something for that a bit more suitable and with a replaceable ZCI insert. The table insert is somehow mangled so I will replace that.

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/img_2432-1-3312555335-1548722209290.jpg

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/img_2433-1.jpg

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/img_2436-1.jpg

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/img_2435.jpg

[Bryan Lisowski]

Brian, very nice purchase, looks like you will need to raise the support on the right, but fits the space well.

[Jim Becker]

Yea, that fit in that spot really nicely...it's a good position for you, too, based on my observation when I was there the other day. Hopefully, it will not be too much trouble to raise the metal stock support on the wall to the new, higher level, as Bryan mentioned.

[Joe Calhoon]

Nice find with the cabinet Brian!
Does it have a FS Tool blade? That’s what mine came with and cuts nicely.

[Martin Wasner]

I've never used the 14", only the 12"

I'm curious if the bigger one whistles. All of mine with a guard on them whistle like crazy. Dust collection should remedy that as well though.



I might've mentioned this before. If you take the switch apart, there's a little spring you can remove to change it from a momentary switch to an on/off switch. Much more pleasant to use that way.

[Brian Holcombe]

Brian, very nice purchase, looks like you will need to raise the support on the right, but fits the space well.

Thank you! Raising it currently. I plan to build something a little better for that area with some extrusions.


Yea, that fit in that spot really nicely...it's a good position for you, too, based on my observation when I was there the other day. Hopefully, it will not be too much trouble to raise the metal stock support on the wall to the new, higher level, as Bryan mentioned.

Thanks Jim! Will be no trouble at all.


Nice find with the cabinet Brian!
Does it have a FS Tool blade? That’s what mine came with and cuts nicely.

Thanks Joe! I'm loving the cabinet dust collection so far, it really does function. After suffering through chop saws with lousy dust collection for so long I'm very happy to have this going. A couple test cuts and there is no noticeable dust surrounding it.

The blade on this one is by Leuco, not a company I'd heard of before but I the cut is nice and clean.

[Brian Holcombe]

I've never used the 14", only the 12"

I'm curious if the bigger one whistles. All of mine with a guard on them whistle like crazy. Dust collection should remedy that as well though.



I might've mentioned this before. If you take the switch apart, there's a little spring you can remove to change it from a momentary switch to an on/off switch. Much more pleasant to use that way.

This one is a 12", sort of an in-between model with a heavy base but smaller blade. It sounds a lot like a cabinet saw (table saw) so yeah it has a whistle. It's so much quieter than the job site saws I've been using that I can hardly notice the noise.

The spring is removed from this one, using it only briefly I agree, it's nice to use it this way.

[Martin Wasner]

Holding that switch is awkward.

Btw, just send the blade out for sharpening. Don't let a dull blade taint your first impression. It's cheap and will have to be done soon probably anyways.

You know I'm right.

[Brian Holcombe]

Hah, I’ve recently learned not to question good advice. So, off it goes to be sharpened.

[Jim Becker]

Given this is literally "in your house" that reduced sound level is a nice feature!

And yea, I agree with Martin...a sharp blade takes that out of the question as you continued with setup and cutting. (You being the master of sharpening most likely agree with that, too! LOL)

[Brian Holcombe]

The reduced noise is fantastic, I was expecting that from the Kapex but it proved louder than anticipated.

Im going to order a new blade, then send this one out. Given that the blade on there had burn marks all over it I’m guessing it’s been misused and so having it sharpened will attend to that.

Ive been really happy with Tenryu miter pro plus, so I’m going to order a 100T version of that so long as it fits the spec.


Edit: New blade on the way.

I ran it yesterday and noticed some runout at the blade, so I checked the existing blade, it is running out about .010" (near the middle of the blade) I checked the arbor and that is perfect, less than .0005" runout. So some knucklehead damaged the blade, hopefully it can be straightened and it will exist as a spare.

[Martin Wasner]

Let the sharpener know. They can usually beat them back into submission.

I should take a video of mine howling. It is brutal. The second you disturb the air flow the whistle goes away. It's something in the guard that does it, if you remove the guard, it goes away. Yours being direct drive should lessen the drive line noise, should limit done run out too.

[Brian Holcombe]

Will do.

This is pretty reasonable in terms of noise, I wonder if a perforated guard would minimize it?

I ordered 2" x 1.25" aluminum bars and 3/8" x 2" UMHW to build a fence. That should be fairly straight forward of a task, so should be up and running properly soon. Also bought UMHW to make a new ZCI since this one is pretty mangled, and it's a hollow form so solid will be better.

These saws are really easy to square, after messing around with the Kapex arrangement for so long it's nice to see something that you just turn the big nut and dial it into squareness. That's pretty sweet.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Wow, nice score! I use a 100T Tenryu Miter Pro Plus for finer work on a Dewalt 780 (12" slider) and I find it to be a fantastic blade for the money.

Where did you find this saw?

[Brian Holcombe]

Thanks Phillip, glad to hear that you like that blade. The 80T treated me very well, so I’m excited to see how the 100T goes.

I found this at a dealer who listed on Woodweb, JKL machinery. Father and son family business, they were excellent. Reasonable price, reasonable shipping, neatly packaged, followed through on every promise and picked up every phone call I made (or returned it in short order). They shipped with Saia who was also excellent. They arrived at the ETA and were quick and effective.

[Brian Holcombe]

New blade's here. I love this saw, it is an animal (a quiet animal).

I dialed in the squareness, the head was out a touch so I brought that in to square with shims. The table is super easy to square, just turret and lock it down.

Cutting through 12/4 x 2.75" ash takes two seconds, I do not pause at all, just pivot the blade down and its done.

Here is the cut:

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/img_2446.jpg

I managed to get it better than this in the upright, and this I'll tune more once the fence is completed.

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/img_2447.jpg

New insert.

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/img_2448.jpg

[Jim Becker]

Dang....that cut is "wow"...

[Jeff Duncan]

Hmmmm, looks like they changed their fences. Mine was a single piece of cast iron with replaceable plastic inserts. I hate to say it but looks like they're trying to save money and made a cheaper version??? Hard to believe for what those sell for new. Though I had the 14" so maybe its different on the different sizes?

Regardless they are great saws and should last a lifetime;)

JeffD

[Martin Wasner]

New blade's here. I love this saw, it is an animal (a quiet animal).

They are pretty hard to beat for a chop box. Also pretty easy to be disappointed in other chop saws once you get used to one.

I do wish there was a handle out the front like a traditional saw. Fine tuning a ¼ of a degree isn't the easiest.

[Brian Holcombe]

Hmmmm, looks like they changed their fences. Mine was a single piece of cast iron with replaceable plastic inserts. I hate to say it but looks like they're trying to save money and made a cheaper version??? Hard to believe for what those sell for new. Though I had the 14" so maybe its different on the different sizes?

Regardless they are great saws and should last a lifetime;)

JeffD

Jeff, this is the 12” direct drive model. Lighter duty than the 14” belt driven, but heavier enough to be a production duty saw.


They are pretty hard to beat for a chop box. Also pretty easy to be disappointed in other chop saws once you get used to one.

I do wish there was a handle out the front like a traditional saw. Fine tuning a ¼ of a degree isn't the easiest.

Have you had to shim the head on any of yours? I don’t mind it, I’m rarely cutting anything other than 90.

This is a breathe of fresh air after borrowing my dad’s Hitachi for a week, I’ll be especially ruined for the next time I need to use that saw at his shop.


Dang....that cut is "wow"...

:D

[Martin Wasner]

Have you had to shim the head on any of yours? I don’t mind it, I’m rarely cutting anything other than 90.

Two of mine are perfect, never touched them.

The other one, that's on my bench, has more problems than worth fixing. I'm hunting for a replacement, but they don't pop up often.

My single phase one is getting loose on the pivot pin at the back.

What did you shim it with?

[Brian Holcombe]

Interesting, I haven't found exactly where the out of squareness came from but I shimmed between the pivot mount and the turret and that cured it. I used shim stock. Once I find the culprit I think I will machine it, but I wanted to be certain of what it was before I go crazy hunting for it.

The pivot is tight on this one.

Here's the new fence, just need to check for clearance issues and add in the UHMW. These were more work than anticipated due to the clearance needed for the base of the hood (near the pivot) but I managed to maintain a much heavier section of solid material(rather than cast with hollows) so hopefully these do well.

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/img_2451.jpg

Here's what I did to make the clearance for the shroud (when mitering).

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/img_2457.jpg

And here is the result with a piece of UMHW held in place.

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/img_2455.jpg

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/img_2456.jpg

I'm thinking 3/8" material should be enough to allow some overhang around it (without aluminum backing it) and not have issues. I also setback the plastic about .005" from the aluminum since the insert should be replaceable and I've noticed that they're not super consistent in terms of thickness. Not sure if that was a wise move but I figured having a future insert protrude above would be more annoying. Time will tell.

[Martin Wasner]

That just cements my thought that I need a mill. And a lathe...

I'm not sure I would've done the uhmw. It'd drive me nuts if it wasn't flat, flush, or if it got deformed. But, I'm also in the minority that thinks zero clearance inserts are a waste of effort. My thought was to make it one piece and just use the saw to cut through the fence. Then take them off again and grind them back a smidge.

I could cut those on the cnc, but first it's fences, then I'd be illegally producing rifle lowers. A rabbit hole I don't need to tumble down. Plus I'm pretty sure I can have fences made for less than the cost of the tooling.

What would you do differently?

[brent stanley]

That just cements my thought that I need a mill. And a lathe...



Don't forget a surface grinder...and.... :)

[Brian Holcombe]

They're handy, the metal working tools, I'd love to have a big cincinnati lathe. This stuff goes the same way as WW'ing equipment and before you know it you have a surface grinder and specialized machines for cutting metal, pressed, etc.

The tooling gets expensive pretty quickly, I probably spent more on tooling for the Mill on these last few projects than all of the actual parts combined (less the machines) but it has expanded my capacity in the mill shop dramatically to where I can accomplish much more of what I want to accomplish without stopping to buy tooling.

I could have skipped the UHMW but I find it helpful to have a sacrifice in that area so if not this then a replaceable piece of aluminum. The thing I like about ZCI is that I can knife the line on the board set it right to the insert and make the cut and it will be right on. They don't really do much for reducing chip out if the blades are correct for the cut (and sharp). With and without in this case was the same. ZCI make dust collection harder, so my insert is zero clearance on one side and open 1/16" on the other.

You could make this one piece, but you'd need to waste a lot of material unless you're not going to pivot the machine, so if it's kept at 90 degrees all the time then you could make one without having to remove so much material to make clearance. I think back cutting the area behind the fence improves dust collection.

These brass bolts are really out of place, so I'll buy some stainless bolts soon, but I had these on hand so they're there for the moment.

Here is a shot behind the fence, showing the clearance left. Another way to approach this would be to make a bar that sits under the blade area and attaches both fences together, that would eliminate some fussing to set the individual fences true to one another.

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/img_2463-2698617633-1549049914480.jpg

And here is the final product:

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/img_2464.jpg

I squared it up and made 50 chops or so. It was a touch fussy to square, but after that was done it stayed tight and the cuts are really nice.

Thanks for recommending this approach, much appreciated.

[Martin Wasner]

The thing I like about ZCI is that I can knife the line on the board set it right to the insert and make the cut and it will be right on.

We used to do a fair amount of doors that have a moulding wrapped around the inside of the frame. I'd set up three saws, one for just whacking parts to a rough length. One set to do one miter, then I'd unusually use a compound saw for the other. You could bevel it just a freckle and cheat the miter so they'd tap together and self clamp all four corners basically. That last saw I'd usually clamp down something to the fence for the same reason, so the kerf would show me my edge. The problem is after a hundred cuts or so, it'd start getting beat to death, so you're shuffling it over frequently. It also changed the angle of attack on the blade, pushing it out that little bit away from the center line delivers a cleaner cut.



You could make this one piece, but you'd need to waste a lot of material unless you're not going to pivot the machine, so if it's kept at 90 degrees all the time then you could make one without having to remove so much material to make clearance. I think back cutting the area behind the fence improves dust collection.

I'll have to look closer, mine are all the mec300 model where the motor is in the back. I could've sworn there was a bunch of real estate there at full angle. I was thinking I wouldn't need any relief cut in the back. My guards are all modded so they swing out of the way sooner for mitering toe boards as well.

[Martin Wasner]

Looking at your second to last picture, there's a allen head screw for the stop. Mine doesn't have that either. It has the big nut underneath it though. I have mine set so at full depth you're almost digging into the base. Just trying to get max cut capacity out of it.

[Brian Holcombe]

I put that Allen in, the saw had a smaller blade from the previous user so they ground the bolt down a lot so I had to replace it for the larger blade I’m using. Didn’t have a hex bolt handy so I subbed in the allen.


Thats been my experience eith most of the inserts, they seem to wear away just enough that they’re no longer reliable after a while. UHMW seems to hold up so far, but it’s going to take a few hundred or thousand chops to see how well it holds up. On the Kapex I chalked it up to a lack of sturdiness in the build, but it could just be that the chips passing by at high speed wear on the insert.

I may take out the inserts when I miter and put in a wooden sacrifice so I can avoid having a knife edge on the inserts.

This saw seems about the same as the mec 300 with exception to the motor placement.

[Brian Holcombe]

Martin,

Thought I'd mention it, since you made the recommendation. I ordered the JA Rawley stop setup. I decided to do that rather than build my own, I like that he offers a digital accessory that seems very useful for the shop that doesn't need automation but would benefit from quicker parts layout. I didn't buy the electronic bit yet, but may do so later.

Added the gang accessory and the chopsticks things for small parts. I cut small parts a lot so it's nice to get my hands much further away.

Very nice person to talk to and was at least understanding of my interest in precision in this regard.

I also ordered all of the stuff to build a better worktable next to this saw and get rid of the aluminum channel sitting there now (which is not actually flat, so I discovered).

This brings it out from the wall a bit, but should be enough to support larger material should I need too after I add a radial arm to this wall.

[Martin Wasner]

I'm curious how you like it. I was considering it pretty hard, but ended up having a fabricator bend and weld up a bunch of fences and stops that are a clone of the Biesemeyer stuff. Good enough for what we need them to do on the benches.

[Patrick Walsh]

Man to have a mill and a metal lathe and know how to use them.

That’s the dream man but I’d actually need a shop and not a shop in my basement lol..

Your cheating using your dads shop. Just saying ;)

[Brian Holcombe]

I'm curious how you like it. I was considering it pretty hard, but ended up having a fabricator bend and weld up a bunch of fences and stops that are a clone of the Biesemeyer stuff. Good enough for what we need them to do on the benches.

I'll post up some details on it once it's arrived and up and together. I'll probably set it up with my current outrigger to complete a few jobs requiring short mitered pieces then reset it when the stuff comes in from 8020.

This is a touch overboard for just cut-off, so I'm mainly doing this for the future saw that I will use for dado work and similar and hope to place right next to the OMGA. I cut kumiko (lattice work) for shoji and have been dreading the idea of making additional shoji to match previous work, so this will make that project much easier to do in the future if I keep records/blocks of my kumiko layouts.

I made a set of shoji recently then in addition to it made an extra screen to give to my wife, she had a plan to use it. Not long after receiving it she asked if I could move it somewhere else and make a few to match....:o


Man to have a mill and a metal lathe and know how to use them.

That’s the dream man but I’d actually need a shop and not a shop in my basement lol..

Your cheating using your dads shop. Just saying ;)

Hah, very true. I'd love to have the mill at my shop, I'd likely spend most evenings milling up aluminum, just have a short drive after hours is enough to knock that down to a more reasonable amount of use.

You can fit one of each, even a smaller mill is handy to have for stuff that is just too much trouble to file.

[Brian Holcombe]

All set, bought some stuff from 8020. Leveled, squared, bolted the saw to the floor and outrigger to the wall. I think I will also connect the track to the saw fence.

I also added the tape measure, and checked it for accuracy. I never use built in tapes, but making exceptio here.

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/img_2604-1.jpg

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/img_2605-1.jpg

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/img_2606-1.jpg

I should have done this a long time ago.

[Jim Becker]

Dang...that looks REALLY good, Brian!!

[Brian Holcombe]

Thanks, Jim!

Btw, Im thinking to do away with the carpet and lay down some light colored rubber mats.

[Martin Wasner]

I could never get used to a stop on the right. It's not wrong, just programming from 20 years of the stop being on the left would make it tough.

Looks good!

[Brian Holcombe]

Thank you!

Yeah, it took me forever to get used to it and only did so because of the shop layout. Even the saw makers must think it weird because they tend to always have the motor on the right hand side of the saw.

BTW, I bought Dawley's 'ChopStix' setup too, and it's great. Really handy for small cuts. I made 12 crosses with four way miters the other day (98 cuts) in 1~" long material and it worked nicely for that.

[Jim Becker]

Thanks, Jim!

Btw, Im thinking to do away with the carpet and lay down some light colored rubber mats.

I find that the ULine mats are pretty cost effective, but they are black or grey. Getting something "light colored" of similar anti-fatigue quality is going to be a tough row to hoe. You'll also want to consider the impact of what your personal choice of footwear is while working in there relative to slipperiness... ;)
---

BTW, Brian speaks the truth about those miters on the crosses...they were incredibly precise and tight, which considering their size...well...amazing.

[Brian Holcombe]

Indeed, they mainly come from exercise sources and are in the range of $5/sqft which is pretty expensive for shop flooring. Thanks, I'll check out the Uline product.

Hah, true, I've been wearing my boots in the shop recently.

[Ben Rivel]

Wow that looks amazing. So how is dust collection? Better than normal miter saws?

[Brian Holcombe]

Thank you! Dust collection is excellent, on 90 degree cross cuts it collects basically everything, and on miters it collects basically everything except when making trim cuts.

It’s a huge improvement over an SCMS in dust collection.

[Jim Becker]

Indeed, they mainly come from exercise sources and are in the range of $5/sqft which is pretty expensive for shop flooring. Thanks, I'll check out the Uline product.

Hah, true, I've been wearing my boots in the shop recently.
All of the mats in my shop came from ULine, so you were standing on them last week when we were burning the evening oil. :)

[Brian Holcombe]

All of the mats in my shop came from ULine, so you were standing on them last week when we were burning the evening oil. :)

Excellent, those will do the trick.

[Jim Becker]

https://www.uline.com/BL_1751/Anti-Fatigue-Mats?keywords=Anti+Fatigue+Mats

And you can pick up at the warehouse up near Allentown PA to avoid shipping costs if you want. The roll can be a good value if the whole shop area down there is to get covered like the carpet is now.

[Brian Holcombe]

That’s s good idea, I was thinking a roll between sharpening and chop saw, one bear the large, one near the bench and one at the entrance.

[Jim Becker]

It's really easy to cut around things to get a "custom" fit, too. I did that at my lathe, for example. If you buy a roll, I might be persuaded to buy from you and use some of the extra if you don't use it up, too. I have some spots that could use attention.

[Brian Holcombe]

Cool, alright sounds like a plan. I think I’ll start this after I wrap up a few more jobs.

[Phillip Mitchell]

That extension wing and glide stop looks fantastic to use! Oh yeah, the OMGA looks nice too...

I was watching a 14" model at an online auction and then forgot to check back on it in time...ended yesterday and sold for around $900. No dust collection stand and appeared a little worse for wear than yours, though. Oh well, one of these days...

[Brian Holcombe]

Thank you!

I saw that went off, I was wondering if you had gotten it. The one in Nj went for cheap, I was kicking myself there.

[Chris Pyle]

Brian, I wanted to give you a shoutout. I was scrolling through this thread the other night and my wife happened to see pics of your shop. She immediately made me scroll back and show her more pics. She said, "Can you please make your shop look like that?"

Apparently she doesn't like my abstract interpretation of shop organization :)

[Brian Holcombe]

Hah! That’s cool, and now you’ve got approval to make shoji screens for the workshop I’d say :D

[Jim Becker]

Brian, I wanted to give you a shoutout. I was scrolling through this thread the other night and my wife happened to see pics of your shop. She immediately made me scroll back and show her more pics. She said, "Can you please make your shop look like that?"

Apparently she doesn't like my abstract interpretation of shop organization :)

I think your better half would really "enjoy" you having a shop setup like Brian's...which is a lot more than any pictures show. Think townhouse with a reasonable percentage dedicated to woodworking on more than one level. LOL The most unique shop I've ever been in! It's an immersion setup. :D

[Mark Hennebury]

Nice saw and a great setup Brian.

[Brian Holcombe]

Thanks, Mark!

Ive been assembling a decent metrology kit in addition to this and it has really helped make the work much more efficient. Amazing how much time is saved by something as simple as repeatable sizing with square cuts.

[Mark Hennebury]

Hi Brian, the most important thing is to develop an understanding of relationships, where and how errors can occur, how to eliminate as many as you can by designing your referencing system and ensuring what errors remain are insignificant and placed where they don't effect the assembly. Figuring out a system to ensure precision and accuracy is the fun part of woodworking. I always worked on the premise; that i set each operation as accurately as i could, then i assume that errors have crept in, so the next operation is set to eliminate any possible errors from the prior operation, this helps to eliminate accumulating error.

I have a similar style of chopsaw to you, it's an old Elumatec, with power feed. It was made for the aluminum window industry. It's a nice saw, does a great job.

412674


Thanks, Mark!

Ive been assembling a decent metrology kit in addition to this and it has really helped make the work much more efficient. Amazing how much time is saved by something as simple as repeatable sizing with square cuts.

[Brian Holcombe]

That’s a very nice saw, Mark! I agree totally and appreciate your post as I have been in a similar pursuit for some time but recently decided to approach it with considerable seriousness. I recognize the improvement in quality in conjunction with an improvement in expedience. It certainly helps to make one begin to become competitive with an otherwise simple tool kit.