Talk to me about non-wood kitchen cabinets

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I saw a cabinet the other day that was made out of what I call Starboard, but maybe something similar- PVC based wood substitute. I like this idea because termites are a big issue here. These, unfortunately, were pretty much the bottom of the line- flimsy construction. Is this stuff available in top-end cabinets? I love the idea of not having to worry about termites in my cabinets.

[Jim Becker]

I think that the challenge will be to find material that is structurally stiff and strong enough for this application without being "molded as a cabinet" from the start. The old-time metal cabinets would be ideal, but then again, that brings the corrosion challenge for you Island dwellers. LOL But along those lines, I wonder if you could adapt one of the metal garage cabinet systems to your needs and gussy it up accordingly? The metal cabinets on the wall/floor could be equipped with wood or composite doors to look nice while not putting wood or wood products directly in contact with the walls/floors where the little buggers tend to come from.

[James Pallas]

Malcolm you could try looking at those panels they make for aircraft cabinetry. It’s a open cell thing that acts like a torsion box. It reminds me of those greenhouse panels. You may even find it around your marine suppliers. I have never used it so don’t know particulars. It is lightweight and strong and used all over aircraft. Just a thought.
Jim

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

A few years back, I remodeled the kitchen in a small rental house we owned. It had metal kitchen cabinets. I heard of such things, but never saw them before. I put them out in the barn and we keep our vet supplies in them.

[roger wiegand]

I grew up with steel cabinets, they were pretty heavy duty and held up well except that they rusted when scratched. These dated from the '30s. No idea if anyone makes such a thing now.

You can certainly get plastic drawers from Ikea or Blum. The Ikea cabinets are still made of termite food, as far as I know.

My experience with cPVC (eg Azek) suggests that it is not rigid enough for openings that need to stay square, it tends to sag over time. That can be solved with strategic placement of steel or aluminum reinforcement with angle iron or square tube.

[Jim Becker]

A few years back, I remodeled the kitchen in a small rental house we owned. It had metal kitchen cabinets. I heard of such things, but never saw them before. I put them out in the barn and we keep our vet supplies in them.
Most, if not all the houses in Levittown PA were equipped with the metal cabinets in the original builds, AFAIK. Many folks never replaced them because they just worked, although there were probably many layers of paint on them over the years.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I wouldn’t want metal. My kitchen is open air- shutters only- no window glass. Rain occasionally gets in if we aren’t diligent with closing the shutters.

Ikea is at least covered in plastic skin of some sort. That’s at least better. I was hoping maybe some advancement has been made in non-wood cabinets.

Aircraft panels are made with a very expensive honeycomb. I’m not at that income bracket! I did consider getting regular cabinets and coating them in epoxy before installing.

[Mel Fulks]

Oh yeah, they make metal cabinets. They were a sure sign of being modern from 1920's to in the 1950s

[James Waldron]

I can't help with non-wood, non-metal kitchen cabinets. OTOH, you're a maker and if you're willing to build your own cabinets and need to find suitable materials for the project, you could take a look at https://www.corelitecomposites.com/sandwich-panels.html who offer, among other things, fiberglass on several core materials in sheets sized to your project. Don't know the prices and the web site doesn't say either, but I do know one builder who uses fiberglass on PVC foam core panels from these guys for bulkheads and the like on boats. He adds wood veneer over the fiberglass most of the time, but he's also faired and painted/gel-coated the panels as well. I think he gets some solid inserts for fastenings set into the panels when they are made (which means carefully planned and detailed plans).

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I can't help with non-wood, non-metal kitchen cabinets. OTOH, you're a maker and if you're willing to build your own cabinets and need to find suitable materials for the project, you could take a look at https://www.corelitecomposites.com/sandwich-panels.html who offer, among other things, fiberglass on several core materials in sheets sized to your project. Don't know the prices and the web site doesn't say either, but I do know one builder who uses fiberglass on PVC foam core panels from these guys for bulkheads and the like on boats. He adds wood veneer over the fiberglass most of the time, but he's also faired and painted/gel-coated the panels as well. I think he gets some solid inserts for fastenings set into the panels when they are made (which means carefully planned and detailed plans).

I’m pretty sure that stuff ain’t cheap- especially the carbon fiber. That would be a sturdy cabinet.

[Edwin Santos]

Malcolm,
Probably also in the not-cheap category - but you might look into the offerings from Trex https://www.trex.com/ who seems to be the dominant player in composite decking material. Their website talks about weather resistant outdoor kitchens available under a licensing agreement with a third party called NatureKast https://www.naturekast.com/

Being a woodworker, maybe you're looking for the materials to build the cabinets yourself, so it might take an inquiry to find out if that option is available. OTOH the cabinets themselves may be affordable if these people have figured out a way to make a market in this price sensitive world of end users we live in.
So maybe you can buy the components and put together what you want and skin/face as you please. Similar to what many people do with IKEA boxes.

As a PVC/Resin product I would expect it to be termite proof, but you'd need to confirm.
This reminds me, I've been meaning to try making an outdoor table top from the Trex fence slats you can buy at Home Depot.

Please report back if you pursue any of this. I think there is a market for outdoor cabinetry that can resist termites, harsh elements, UV, etc. Maybe especially the case in the environment where you live.
Edwin

[Edwin Santos]

Another thought - you might look into MDO (medium density overlay).
Since it's engineered for outdoor signs, it might meet your performance criteria. Plus you could cut/join it just like regular MDF. I see it used a lot on jobsites for soffits and fascias. The coating is resin so the little buggers would have to be pretty determined to make their way through it, so long as you make sure you take care with exposed edges.

While we're at it, you might also ask your lumber supplier about phenolic plywood which could also be a good solution for you.

[Patrick Walsh]

My boss purchased a jointer from a shop a couple states away. I went with him to check the machine and help move it. The shop was very large much like a small factory. Automated everything....

We noticed what looked like a slab style door made of corian. I can’t remeber what he said the product was but he confirmed it to be a door and said it taped well and held screws no problem.

The material was very rigid quite nice and almost reminded me of a Italian laquer cab.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Thanks for the replies- The cabinet I saw was at Home Depot, and was a low-end option, so I thought maybe higher end manufacturers might be going the same route with non-wood options like PVC or similar. I'm not interested in metal. I am not planning to build them myself right now- too many irons in the fire. I would like to get semi-custom prefab and install them myself and build the counter top myself, but not the whole cabinet.

[Bill Dufour]

I have been disappointed all the stainless steel tool cabinets I see are regular steel insides. How about cast concrete cabinets with some kind of plastic drawers and doors. I have seen picnic tables built of trex decking type materials.
Bill D.

[Erik Loza]

Malcolm, I used to rep for a dealer of these types of products. "Starboard" is one brand, "Designboard" is another. They are all HDPE plastic, which machines easily but as you noted, is soft and needs to be at least 3/4" thick in order to have any sort of structural rigidity. Also, HDPE distorts and gets soft in the sun. Typically, you clad something with it. There is a rubberized acrylic made by Chemcast of Mexico that is actually designed to be drilled for Blum-type hinges and grabs screws but it is quite expensive. You might also check out Corian or one of the other acrylicized solid surface materials. I had several clients who used them for outdoor kitchens. Good luck in your search.

Erik

[Bill Dufour]

Marble or granite slabs held together with silicone and wood biscuits to make the cabinets. Not sure how they would be for doors. might be too heavy and crack easy.

[Patrick Walsh]

The chem cast stuff that drill for Blum hinges and takes screws is what I was speaking of.

Not much any experience with it but I caught my eye and I have fancy taste motivated by high quality.



Malcolm, I used to rep for a dealer of these types of products. "Starboard" is one brand, "Designboard" is another. They are all HDPE plastic, which machines easily but as you noted, is soft and needs to be at least 3/4" thick in order to have any sort of structural rigidity. Also, HDPE distorts and gets soft in the sun. Typically, you clad something with it. There is a rubberized acrylic made by Chemcast of Mexico that is actually designed to be drilled for Blum-type hinges and grabs screws but it is quite expensive. You might also check out Corian or one of the other acrylicized solid surface materials. I had several clients who used them for outdoor kitchens. Good luck in your search.

Erik

[Bradley Gray]

What about Aluminum?

https://www.cabinetexpress.com/HTML/wolf_endurance.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiAxs3gBRDGARIsAO4t qq1JqviiOwxSIyXY_1DQE2f3JbA-wEMIgbTilqI-clU7ee22zViJwi0aAkfeEALw_wcB

[Malcolm Schweizer]

What about Aluminum?

https://www.cabinetexpress.com/HTML/wolf_endurance.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiAxs3gBRDGARIsAO4t qq1JqviiOwxSIyXY_1DQE2f3JbA-wEMIgbTilqI-clU7ee22zViJwi0aAkfeEALw_wcB

Those at least look less like garage storage and more like kitchen cabinets, but it still seems a little industrial. It's an option. I don't really like the feel of metal cabinets. That may sound silly.


Marble or granite slabs held together with silicone and wood biscuits to make the cabinets. Not sure how they would be for doors. might be too heavy and crack easy.

That sounds expensive and kind of "iffy".


Malcolm, I used to rep for a dealer of these types of products. "Starboard" is one brand, "Designboard" is another. They are all HDPE plastic, which machines easily but as you noted, is soft and needs to be at least 3/4" thick in order to have any sort of structural rigidity. Also, HDPE distorts and gets soft in the sun. Typically, you clad something with it. There is a rubberized acrylic made by Chemcast of Mexico that is actually designed to be drilled for Blum-type hinges and grabs screws but it is quite expensive. You might also check out Corian or one of the other acrylicized solid surface materials. I had several clients who used them for outdoor kitchens. Good luck in your search.

Erik

I helped a friend repair a Jenneau sailboat with some termite damage to the bulkhead. (a problem caused by keeping it in the yard with hatches open and on the tree line) He wanted to use Starboard. I wasn't impressed at all with the stuff. I agree it needs to have some sort of rigid layer on either side to really work as a structural material. The cabinets that I saw that caused me to start this thread were a wee bit flimsy, but were on the cheaper end of the spectrum. I was hoping someone had a better built version out there.

Corian is great for counter tops, but I would hate to see the cost for building a whole cabinet. Also, in the past I tried to get Corian and similar materials and it seems you have to be a vendor to even get the stuff.

[Jim Becker]

Those at least look less like garage storage and more like kitchen cabinets, but it still seems a little industrial. It's an option. I don't really like the feel of metal cabinets. That may sound silly.
You could take something like that an apply veneer after painting any door edges to match the color of the veneer you choose.

[Curt Harms]

.................................................. .......
Corian is great for counter tops, but I would hate to see the cost for building a whole cabinet. Also, in the past I tried to get Corian and similar materials and it seems you have to be a vendor to even get the stuff.

Not just cost but weight as well. That stuff ain't light and it wouldn't be quick or simple to mount (heavy duty) hinges and such. You can get 1/4" which would be lighter but would be even trickier to mount hardware. DuPont does have a Corian fabrication manual online here:

http://www2.dupont.com/Surfaces/en_US/fabmanual/table_of_contents.html

[Jim Becker]

I use the 1/4" Corian for some sign thing and yes, it's major heavy even in the thin material and can also be "brittle" when it's not supported well. The material is also only available in limited widths, depending on the color, which may not work out economically for cabinet work.

[Mark Bolton]

Im guessing the Starboard cabs you saw were either trying to cut costs with thin material or were poorly constructed. We had a rep coming through pushing the Starboard and I have seen a few outdoor kitchens that put Starboard in the category of Jims Corian option. Thick material, extremely heavy, and when assembled very rugged but of course not the best in a dark color (or perhaps any color) exposed to direct sunlight. I would never want to handle a 3/4" thick fully assembled Starboard cabinet. It will weigh a TON.

Im not a fan of plastics for the normal reasons but its an interesting material. A very small percentage of people in my area would ever be willing to pay for something that used Starboard. We were looking at some of their tricolor material for a couple projects and the pricing is way up there.

An interesting option might be a job with a combination of something like Starboard and AlumaCorr for panels though I think most shops that are building starboard cabinets are just CNC routing doors like MDF. I dont know how they deal with the cleanup of the profiles.

[Wayne Lomman]

Have you considered using a termite resistant timber? Australian white cypress is one of these but there are others as well. The last house I built was in northern Australia which also has voracious termites. The house was built with pressure treated timber but white cypress was equally acceptable. It was a metre above ground level on masonry stumps with steel ant caps and you had to do 3 monthly inspections to scrape off the covered tracks. All the cabinets and trim lasted as you would expect in normal service. Cheers

[Jim Becker]

Hmm....here's a thought...how about a 1/4" thick layer of a composite like Corian on the wall and then traditional cabinets. The plastic would isolate the wood products and make it really difficult for any creatures to invade them. (And just for the record, I had an upper cabinet in our kitchen taken out by termites a little more than a year ago and it was not a fun thing to discover, nor a cheap thing to remediate so I can appreciate your situation there on the island!)

[Todd Bender]

Teak....jk

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Hmm....here's a thought...how about a 1/4" thick layer of a composite like Corian on the wall and then traditional cabinets. The plastic would isolate the wood products and make it really difficult for any creatures to invade them. (And just for the record, I had an upper cabinet in our kitchen taken out by termites a little more than a year ago and it was not a fun thing to discover, nor a cheap thing to remediate so I can appreciate your situation there on the island!)

We have flying termites. They come from all angles. The walls are solid concrete in the kitchen.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Have you considered using a termite resistant timber? Australian white cypress is one of these but there are others as well. The last house I built was in northern Australia which also has voracious termites. The house was built with pressure treated timber but white cypress was equally acceptable. It was a metre above ground level on masonry stumps with steel ant caps and you had to do 3 monthly inspections to scrape off the covered tracks. All the cabinets and trim lasted as you would expect in normal service. Cheers

I am really looking for semi-custom, i.e. Ready- made that you can order in various sizes to fit your space. I could build them, but really don't want to spend that much time.

[Bill Dufour]

Make them from clear plexiglass and paste photos of wood on the inside.:D
Bil lD

[Frederick Skelly]

Make them from clear plexiglass and paste photos of wood on the inside.:D
Bil lD

Bill. You're not helping. ;) :) :)

[Bill Dufour]

Bill Gates probably has cabinets made form flat screen TV's so he can change the wood choice and style pictures easily, faster then a home remodel show.:D