Do you need more than a basic bench plane set?

[Kory Cassel]

Hi everyone,

I've been building up my hand tool kit to focus on old school craftsmanship and have been following the thread about Veritas's next tool. Many seem to want a no 3.

Reading The Practical Woodworker had led me to believe that 3 bench planes should be in the basic hand tool set. I was thinking scrub plane for my next acquisition.

Having grown up in a block plane tradition, do I want one or more of the smaller bench planes? Are there jobs for which a block plane is unsuitable and a no 4 is too bulky?

For reference, I have a Miller's Falls no 9, Stanley 605C, Griffiths 22" try plane, and several block planes.

Going into new territory by choosing to try Neanderthal mode, any advice is appreciated.

Thanks,

Kory

[Warren Mickley]

I have been doing historic woodworking since 1970 and am a full time professional. I have never owned a power tool.

The historic bench plane kit is jack plane, trying plane, jointer plane, smoother plane and maybe a strike block plane. There are occasional extra planes like a long plane (short jointer) or a foreplane that is slightly different from a jack. When we see an old shop inventory with planes, we usually divide by four or five to figure how many men worked there. Historic drawings often have four planes on the shelf under the bench.

I use these bench planes:
1. wooden jack plane 43 degrees
2. wooden trying plane 43 degrees
3. #7 jointer 45 degrees
4. #3 smoother 45 degrees
5. #4 smoother altered to 42 degrees and used on end grain.

This list is unchanged since 1983. I stopped using block planes in 1976.

[Kevin Adams]

I have been doing historic woodworking since 1970 and am a full time professional. I have never owned a power tool.

The historic bench plane kit is jack plane, trying plane, jointer plane, smoother plane and maybe a strike block plane. There are occasional extra planes like a long plane (short jointer) or a foreplane that is slightly different from a jack. When we see an old shop inventory with planes, we usually divide by four or five to figure how many men worked there. Historic drawings often have four planes on the shelf under the bench.

I use these bench planes:
1. wooden jack plane 43 degrees
2. wooden trying plane 43 degrees
3. #7 jointer 45 degrees
4. #3 smoother 45 degrees
5. #4 smoother altered to 42 degrees and used on end grain.

This list is unchanged since 1983. I stopped using block planes in 1976.

Hi Warren, curious what other planes you use such as rabbet (or fillester?), plow, etc.? Also, what is a basic chisel set? I am quite sure that you have crafted some beautiful projects over many years with fewer tools than most or all of us.

Thanks for your contributions here and help.

Kevin

[Kory Cassel]

Thanks Warren,

I can see how a real, dedicated hand work bench could get me away from the block planes, I'm working on it.

Are there any particular reasons to choose a no 3 for a main smoother? Could I get away with two no 4s?

[steven c newman]

Careful....these things do get very addicting..
398364

I tend to size the plane to the work I am doing...and yes, I still use the block planes.

Then there is the matter of doing moldings....

[Kory Cassel]

Thanks for the reminder Steven. LOL.
Note to self: Finish the work bench, drywall the shop, and then figure out how many more plane restorations I simply have to do.:D

[Jim Koepke]

Thanks for the reminder Steven. LOL.
Note to self: Finish the work bench, drywall the shop, and then figure out how many more plane restorations I simply have to do.:D

If you can find them inexpensively, why not pick them up when you see them?

My #3s get used as often as my #4s.

jtk

[Tyler Bancroft]

I have the Veritas scrub and think it's great for working things like hard maple and yellow birch. For softer woods, it's probably overkill.

[Mark Maleski]

Are there any particular reasons to choose a no 3 for a main smoother? Could I get away with two no 4s? you only need one main smoother, where it be a 3 or a 4.

[Andrew Seemann]

In theory, you only need a jack knife and you could, in theory, build everything with that. Need is a funny word. What one person needs, is to another a frivolous waste. I think I need the dozen or so bench planes I have (plus a bunch of block planes and other specialty planes). I could get by with fewer, but it would irritate me, which defeats the propose of a hobby. It is really what you want, and what you need to do what you want. Enough epistemology for now though.

To answer your actual question, if I had to reduce to a bare minimum (like if I had to go live in the woods), I would give a list similar to Warren's. For me I would want a smoothing plane (#3 or #4) a jack plane (#5) and a jointer plane (#7). Those lengths and sizes give you what you need to flatten, square, and finish things: the jack plane to do roughing and flattening, the jointer to edge joint, and the smoother for finishing. You can adjust angles and sets and stuff to do nearly all of what you need with those 3 bench planes (and a block plane).

What tends to happen is that you get tired of frequently adjusting angles and sets and decide,"It would be handy to get a xxxxx, or have another xxxxx" And then you start ending up with more smoothing planes, or a #6, or whatever. Probably the handiest to have seconds of is a smoother, because it allows you to go twice as long between stopping to sharpen (it take about as long to touch up two planes as one). As far as #3s vs #4s. I like having both. You find that you start consistently reaching for one or the other for certain tasks. Having a second jack plane can be handy also, to keep one with an aggressive cut and camber, and another with less. The nice thing about #3s, #4s, and #5s is that they are very common (because they were and are the most useful and used bench planes) and if you go vintage, you can often pick them up for not much money.

At some point if you are really into hand tool woodworking you end up down that slippery slope and have a collection that looks like Steven's or mine:)

398389398390

[Andrew Hughes]

I also get by with just a few bench planes. I also like small block planes .
I guess if you have a big collection of plane it’s better then a book shelf filled with copy’s of the same book.
Ive been woodworking since 8 o’clock this morning.:)

[Phil Mueller]

My most used are 4, 5 and 7. But I will say, equally used is a dedicated shooting plane. You can certainly use a standard bench plane (and I did for years), but after getting the shooting plane, I’d never go back. Maybe it’s not technically considered a bench plane, but when thinking about trueing up stock, it’s now a “need” in my book.

[Kory Cassel]

If you can find them inexpensively, why not pick them up when you see them?

My #3s get used as often as my #4s.

jtk
Thanks Jim,

Right now it's a matter of space. My shop remains unfinished, without climate control and I am loathe to store my 'good' tools in there.

[Kory Cassel]

I have the Veritas scrub and think it's great for working things like hard maple and yellow birch. For softer woods, it's probably overkill.
Yeah Tyler,

I was leaning towards a scrub plane because I've already wanted one roughing down riven stock I got from a neighbor's felled tree.:)

[Kory Cassel]

What tends to happen is that you get tired of frequently adjusting angles and sets and decide,"It would be handy to get a xxxxx, or have another xxxxx" And then you start ending up with more

At some point if you are really into hand tool woodworking you end up down that slippery slope and have a collection that looks like Steven's or mine:)

Thanks Andrew,

Very interesting our concept of need when you think of some Native American traditions. Making houses and fabulous dugout canoes with a tool sort of like the short half of a broken drawknife.

I see what you mean about having more planes set to task. I'm seriously considering making a York pitch smoother in a Krenov style. I have a 2.25" laminated Ward and Payne blade that needs a home.

[Kory Cassel]

Ive been woodworking since 8 o’clock this morning.:)
Lucky!
I spent most of the day working the pits out of vintage plane blades and some old pig sticker mortise chisels.

[Kory Cassel]

My most used are 4, 5 and 7. But I will say, equally used is a dedicated shooting plane. You can certainly use a standard bench plane (and I did for years), but after getting the shooting plane, I’d never go back. Maybe it’s not technically considered a bench plane, but when thinking about trueing up stock, it’s now a “need” in my book.
I hadn't thought of it but I'm definitely going to based on your recommendation.
Thanks Phil.

[James Pallas]

Jack, jointer, smoother. I went thru a period of many planes for bench work and finally got over it. I do have several irons. I think of them as drill bits, the irons that is. You don’t need to have another drill for each bit. It is helpful to me to have a straight iron ready for my jack to use as a small jointer, or an iron with just a bit more camber to use in my smoother. I know some people like to set up a plane and not change until they have to sharpen up. That’s okay too if that is what you like. I use a straight blade in my jack for shooting. Now joinery planes is another whole subject.
Jim

[Robert Hazelwood]

Are you going to joint and thickness your workpieces by hand? If so then I like a set of 4 planes

- Jack plane: ~15" long, heavy camber on the iron. Used for quickly removing high spots, twist, etc. Prefer english-style wood plane for this job, but a Bailey #5 or transitional works fine as well. You should be able to get this one inexpensively- does not need to be terribly precise or have amazing steel since it is always taking thick shavings.

- Try Plane: ~22" long, moderate camber on the iron. This is used to flatten the broad faces of boards. Prefer english-style wood plane again, but a #6 or #7 bailey will be fine with frequent waxing. This needs to be very accurate since it will be creating precision reference faces. A bevel down plane with a chipbreaker (i.e. double iron) is mandatory IMO. Do not recommend any sort of bevel up plane for this. You need to take healthy shavings with zero or minimal tearout, and a double iron and some experience make this possible.

- Jointer plane: 22 to 30 inches long. Zero or minimal camber on the iron. Used to flatten edges of boards prior to joining (gluing together), and to create precision reference edges in general. I like a bailey style plane for this, #7 or #8, wooden planes can work but have a higher center of gravity, and if all you do is edge jointing the sole will wear quickly. Needs to be very accurate, obviously.

- Smoother. ~9" long, used for removing any lingering tearout and dirt/oxidation prior to finishing, should leave a bright and perfect surface. Takes mostly very thin shavings, so the plane needs to be tuned extremely well. Also useful for various odd jobs where a small plane is handy. I prefer a #4 bailey or bedrock style.


The try plane and jointer can be combined into one, but some people like more camber on their try plane iron than they would want on a jointer.

The only planes I'd consider buying new/premium (i.e. Veritas or Lie-Nielsen) are for the smoother and jointer, these benefit the most from manufacturing accuracy and are least penalized by the extra weight. The others should be vintage bailey planes or wooden planes IMO. UK ebay is a good source for nice wooden planes if you're interested.

I do find block planes useful, not so much at the bench but in a situation where I have to hold the workpiece with one hand and plane with the other, or where I am forced to use the plane on a vertical surface (like planing the end of a very large board). Block planes or smaller japanese planes are well suited to this.

[Mark Maleski]

Probably the handiest to have seconds of is a smoother, because it allows you to go twice as long between stopping to sharpen (it take about as long to touch up two planes as one).

This I don't get...I find it takes exactly twice as long to touch up two planes as one, and find it's better to make honing an integrated part of my woodworking so I can do it without turning it into an event. What do you find beneficial about waiting and then doubling up (where is the economy)?

[Robert Hazelwood]

This I don't get...I find it takes exactly twice as long to touch up two planes as one, and find it's better to make honing an integrated part of my woodworking so I can do it without turning it into an event. What do you find beneficial about waiting and then doubling up (where is the economy)?

I happen to have a second smoother, and when I have a batch of parts to do (usually glued up assemblies) I will sharpen both and set one for a heavier shaving and one for a very thin shaving. I'll remove the glue squeeze out, level dovetail pins, etc. with the first plane, then take a pass with the second smoother to brighten up the surface. The thinner the shaving, the less work you can do between sharpenings, so I can keep the fine-finish type shavings going longer by minimizing the work it has to do. Since the other plane is set for a heavier shaving, it can take more wear and still stay in the cut. The net effect is that I can get more assemblies done and I don't have to constantly adjust the shaving thickness. It's a small luxury, not a game changer or anything, but works out for me.

You could use a jointer or try plane to do the job of the first smoother, but sometimes they are awkward to use on assemblies and so I normally prefer a smoother.

[Mark Maleski]

That makes sense. I do use my jointer/try for the thicker shaving as you describe, so pretty much doing the same as you are. If I had a smaller piece I would use the smoother and adjust the cut.

[Robert Engel]

Kory, sounds like you've got the basics there: smoother, fore and jointer + block planes. Personally I don't see a need for a #3 but others might. It wouldn't even fit my hand.

I would be looking at a shoulder plane and router plane. I think a medium and large shoulder is a good combo. In my work they are indispensible.

If you will use a scrub plane for prepping rough stock, then I think a #5 with a cambered iron goes hand in hand with that.

After that, I would let the project dictate. For example, if a project calls for curved patterns, then you might look at spokeshaves.

But a word of caution about acquiring tools because you think you need them -- will quickly become a collector ;)

[Tyler Bancroft]

Yeah Tyler,

I was leaning towards a scrub plane because I've already wanted one roughing down riven stock I got from a neighbor's felled tree.:)

I held off on buying a scrub for quite a while, because it seemed like a luxury, but it's a fair bit lighter than a jack (the Veritas scrub is ~3 pounds), which I prefer. I find that the extra momentum from a jack isn't helpful when I'm scrubbing over high spots, rather than working down the grain, and my joints appreciate something lighter. If you want to save a bit of money, I find the edge retention on the HCS blade is fine - I don't think the PM-V11 is really necessary.

[lowell holmes]

Actually, I think you need one of each. I do. :rolleyes:

[Jim Koepke]

Yeah Tyler,

I was leaning towards a scrub plane because I've already wanted one roughing down riven stock I got from a neighbor's felled tree.:)

My scrub plane came as one of those deals a person just couldn't refuse. In other words it could be resold for more than what the guy was asking for it.

Before that my scrub plane was a beat up in high school shop class #5-1/4. It is like a longish #3 and with a heavily cambered blade does well as a scrub plane. Though now the #40 gets most of the rough work.

If you are jammed for space and/or storage at this time you may want to put your acquisitions on hold unless some great deal comes your way.

jtk

[Kory Cassel]

This I don't get...I find it takes exactly twice as long to touch up two planes as one, and find it's better to make honing an integrated part of my woodworking so I can do it without turning it into an event. What do you find beneficial about waiting and then doubling up (where is the economy)?
I see what he's getting at Mark. By the time you've stopped work, set up your stones, taken the blade out of the plane...you've already used up more time than it takes to touch up the blade so you could easily touch up another while you're at it. Stop to sharpen one, then stop again to sharpen another would be a longer period altogether even though the actual sharpening takes an equal amount of time.

[Kory Cassel]

Kory, sounds like you've got the basics there: smoother, fore and jointer + block planes. Personally I don't see a need for a #3 but others might. It wouldn't even fit my hand.

I would be looking at a shoulder plane and router plane. I think a medium and large shoulder is a good combo. In my work they are indispensible.

If you will use a scrub plane for prepping rough stock, then I think a #5 with a cambered iron goes hand in hand with that.

After that, I would let the project dictate. For example, if a project calls for curved patterns, then you might look at spokeshaves.

But a word of caution about acquiring tools because you think you need them -- will quickly become a collector ;)
Thanks Robert,

The router is covered, but shoulder planes and spokeshaves are still on the list.

The shoulder planes seem to be one tool that I just can't find any bargains going vintage as I prefer to do. The gunmetal Prestons are obviously beautiful, but fully 4 times the price of Lie Nielsen seems steep! I may have to get new ones or make my own when I get there.

P.S. I already have to squeeze my hand into the smoother so maybe a no 3 is not in the cards for me unless there are designs with more rear tote space.

[justin sherriff]

Thanks Robert,

The router is covered, but shoulder planes and spokeshaves are still on the list.

The shoulder planes seem to be one tool that I just can't find any bargains going vintage as I prefer to do.

what about a wooden rabbet plane? what do you get with a shoulder plane that could not be done with a traditional wooden rabbet plane?

[Kory Cassel]

what about a wooden rabbet plane? what do you get with a shoulder plane that could not be done with a traditional wooden rabbet plane?
I'm not really sure Justin, but I think the difference is in the way that the blade is supported.

I think that purpose made shoulder planes attack the end grain more directly in line with less chance of chatter than a bevel down rabbet plane where the delicate tip of the blade is being jammed side-like into the end grain. The wooden rabbets don't have a chip-breaker down there to dampen vibration. I don't know if it makes a difference in performance?

If anyone has had good success using a wooden rabbet as a shoulder plane, I'm game to get one and try it.

[Warren Mickley]

A shoulder plane is just an iron rabbet plane which is what they were called when they first appeared mid 19th century. I have used home made wooden rabbet planes since 1975. If there is chatter, there is a problem with the bedding.

I would think a moving fillister (fenced rabbet) and a plough would be higher on the essentials list.

[Kory Cassel]

A shoulder plane is just an iron rabbet plane which is what they were called when they first appeared mid 19th century. I have used home made wooden rabbet planes since 1975. If there is chatter, there is a problem with the bedding.

I would think a moving fillister (fenced rabbet) and a plough would be higher on the essentials list.
Thanks Warren,

If you say you can use your wooden rabbet planes to trim end grain in place of a shoulder plane, I'm going to try it.

I've got a Stanley no 46 to start out for my plough/fillister uses.

[Warren Mickley]

I have never used a plane to trim the shoulder of a tenon There is some danger of blowout at the end of the cut if it is not deeply scored. If I made a mistake in sawing a tenon, I would scribe a line and pare. I can't imagine a Japanese craftsman trimming like this either; we saw to the line.

[Richard Hutchings]

Warren, that's always been my way of thinking as well. But people keep posting that they're buying and using them. I don't get it and won't buy one unless I find a real yardsale type bargain. I have a feeling it would be another shop decoration.

[Robert Engel]

Kory,

That reminded me the foundation of hand tool work is keeping your tools sharp. I recommend a dedicated a sharpening station rather than hauling out the stones and doing them on the benchtop. Everything is ready to go, so you're more encouraged to stop and rehone. Since its only a couple minutes to refresh an iron, just sharpen any particular iron whenever it needs rather than waiting for dull tools to build up (which I'm guilty of like everyone else).

I would caution you to give some good thought as to why you need (want?) a shoulder plane. I initially bought mine with the intention of ..... yes, planing shoulders. But even after a lot of experience, I can tell you tenon shoulders can be easily messed up with a shoulder plane. I've found they can actually can be pared very nicely with a chisel. (See another post: re: "Tenon Shoulder Question"). That basically leaves the occasional rabbet, which happens to be what I use shoulder plane for the most.

There are really only two shoulder planes I would recommend: Lee Valley and Lie Nielsen. Either one you will have to shell out a few bucks but if you look for vintage Stanleys you will be shocked at the prices since they are sold as collector items. I have both and like the Veritas a bit better because of 1) ergonomics and 2) lateral set screws.

I think a medium and a large is all you need. I would start with a medium.

I have a couple wooden rabbet planes. If I were to recommend one, it would be a skewed iron. They work quite well. Like any plane grain direction is the issue.

[Richard Hutchings]

I have the Veritas skewed rabbit. What a joy that thing is to use.

[Kory Cassel]

I have never used a plane to trim the shoulder of a tenon There is some danger of blowout at the end of the cut if it is not deeply scored. If I made a mistake in sawing a tenon, I would scribe a line and pare. I can't imagine a Japanese craftsman trimming like this either; we saw to the line.
So Warren, you don't have any experience as to whether a wooden rabbet or shoulder plane would work differently in end grain? I misunderstood your reply.

It made sense to me that they would cut somewhat differently as a shoulder plane's blade is supported by the bed all the way to the tip and referencing the wood the same way as low angle jack plane. I've read somewhere that the low angle jack was developed specifically for planing the end grain surface of a butcher block.

You had a plane on your list modified to 43 degrees for end grain work. The LieNielsen shoulder planes are set to cut bevel-up at 43 degrees.

I'm thinking they are a bit different so I'm going to hold off on the wooden rabbet since I already have the Stanley 46 for rabbets and dados. If I find that I really want a shoulder plane at some point because I just can't cut a square to the line then I'll break down and get one.

Thanks to everyone who replied, I wandered a little off topic but I appreciate the benefit of your experience with hand tools on the subject of needed planes.:)

[steven c newman]

Mine...
398602
1.25" Auburn Tool Co. No. 181.....

[Mark Maleski]

I see what he's getting at Mark. By the time you've stopped work, set up your stones, taken the blade out of the plane...you've already used up more time than it takes to touch up the blade so you could easily touch up another while you're at it. Stop to sharpen one, then stop again to sharpen another would be a longer period altogether even though the actual sharpening takes an equal amount of time.

I'm still not onboard with this approach of putting off sharpening. Sharpening can be a PITA, right? That's why in my shop I dedicated a couple square feet of floor space to a dedicated sharpening station (plus bonus storage underneath). Whenever the thought "I wonder if my edge needs touching up?" occurs, I pause what I'm doing, walk to the sharpening station, and spend 60 seconds honing my edge (maybe a little longer if I'm using a plane with a chipbreaker). It's second nature now and integrated into my work. My edges are *always* sharp. And I have no need for multiple tools so I can stagger my sharpening (I do confess to a few extra tools that aren't strictly needed).

I'm not saying my way is the only right way, but it is the right way for *me*.

[Dominik Dudkiewicz]

I suspect that the answer to the question in the thread title - "do you need more than a basic plane set", will be different from every respondent. As already discussed there is first the interpretation of "need" vs "want" or "prefer" . Also, based on my own journey so far, I suspect that this definition will change with time and personal experience. It is my further suspicion that many people, myself included, may follow a sort of bell curve of "need". Whereby initially you start off thinking you will only need a few planes, then you get more into it and become convinced you need to get more and more of the specific sizes of bench planes, many joinery planes, moulding planes etc, and finally, after exposure to, and experience with, many tools, you come back to a set that actually meets your needs/wants and that may be far fewer planes than you had mid-way through your journey. I do think that no amount of other people's advice or opinion is worth as much as personal experience with a tool in order to decide for yourself what does and doesn't work well for you and which tools you ultimately keep/use.

I currently have 40 hand planes (no duplicates) of which 14 are moulding planes, and don't feel the urge/need for any more and suspect I may shed a couple over time if I find they aren't getting used much (such as LV LAJ for example).

Enjoy the journey!

Cheers, Dom

[Kory Cassel]

Thanks Mark,
I'm planning on having the sharpening station directly behind the bench so I only have to turn around. I've seen the lay-outs where the sharpening station is under the face vise end of the bench, but I'm not thrilled at the idea of stooping over and reaching down to sharpen even though Rob Cosman teaches this posture. My shop is small (16'X20') so I will have to do some economizing and compromise. My plan is one L shaped wall mounted bench wrapping around one corner with my main workbench in the center of the shop. Wood storage on the opposite long wall and the other end wall free for a drill press or some other machine that I just can't work without. I'm a big fan of drill presses, once you get to know them, there's a lot they can do so Neanderthal + Drill Press is the current goal.

[Phil Mueller]

Kory, just for fun, I’ll throw one more in the mix. Certainly not a “need”, but I find the miniature LV block plane extremely useful for small work. Chamfers on small pieces, leveling stringing and banding, and the like. I just used it to fine tune a gentle convex curve on a drawer handle. I bought it just for fun, but find I use it often. Of course, kind of depends on what kind of projects you’ll be doing.

398625

[Kory Cassel]

Phil, I actually have something like this! It's a tiny pressed steel Stanley. Ugly as sin, but it works just fine. I've used it more than I would have thought and it was thrown into a deal for free.

[john zulu]

I have been collecting around 8 years now. Overtime my collection has grown. Collecting and usage evolves. Just like the workshop. Consistently changing due to the work or times. To answer your question. It depends. Just buy what you need. For the longest time I went without a scraper plane. Now I own one. It really depends on the work you want to do.

[Wojciech Tryc]

My scrub plane came as one of those deals a person just couldn't refuse. In other words it could be resold for more than what the guy was asking for it.

Before that my scrub plane was a beat up in high school shop class #5-1/4. It is like a longish #3 and with a heavily cambered blade does well as a scrub plane. Though now the #40 gets most of the rough work.

If you are jammed for space and/or storage at this time you may want to put your acquisitions on hold unless some great deal comes your way.

jtk
My Veritas scrub plane also came as a great deal, way beyond its value. I use it extensively, and in my shop it’s a part of my standard set.

[Warren Mickley]

My Veritas scrub plane also came as a great deal, way beyond its value. I use it extensively, and in my shop it’s a part of my standard set.

The term scrub plane was invented by Stanley tools around 1890. It is an Anglicization of schrupphobel, roughing plane.

Short roughing were not used in the English or American tradition, however, a scrub plane can certainly be considered as part of a "small basic kit". This is a very different thing than having seventeen bench planes or something. If you have a small kit you can have much greater intimacy with your tools.

[Rob Luter]

Hi everyone,.....Reading The Practical Woodworker had led me to believe that 3 bench planes should be in the basic hand tool set.

As I get farther down the path I'm inclined to agree. While I've been woodworking on and off for many years, I was bitten by the hand tool bug about ten years ago and this resulted in the acquisition of a broad array of vintage planes. I assembled a "one of each" collection to make sure I had a tool solution for any woodworking problem I might face. Most of them went unused. Current block planes include a #18, #65, #102, and #60 1/2. From a bench plane perspective, I currently have a #3, #4, #4 1/2, #5, #6, and #7. These are supplemented by a LV Low Angle Jack and multiple scraping planes and cabinet scrapers. I also have a couple woodies set up for scrub plane use. This is what remains after the first purge last year of 20+ planes and nearly as many saws. I use a thickness planer to prepare stock in order to make the most of my meager spare time, so many of these planes still go unused.

I'm planning on a second purge this winter where I'll thin the herd some more. I'll keep the four blocks, a #4, #4 1/2, the Lee Valley Jack, and maybe the #7. I'll keep a #80 cabinet scraper and one of the woodie scrubs too. Next year about this time I'll reassess my situation and perhaps downsize a little more.

I like the idea of a small kit where everything gets used. It's easier to lug around too.

[Brian Holcombe]

I also find that a shoulder plane is not particularly helpful for cutting shoulders.

For small planes I like them to still have a chipbreaker.

[Jim Koepke]

Reading The Practical Woodworker had led me to believe that 3 bench planes should be in the basic hand tool set.

Yes, but life is more fun when we get beyond the basics.

jtk

[Rob Luter]

Yes, but life is more fun when we get beyond the basics.

jtk

You rascal. Now I’m Rethinking everything :confused:

[Kory Cassel]

Yes, but life is more fun when we get beyond the basics.

jtk
Fun is another funny concept. Sometimes the higher the highs, the lower the lows.:D

[Jim Foster]

Warren, I tend to use my block plane to break edges (not a pro here, just a hack, trying not to be...) :) What do you use for this, purpose, or is it not an issue with your work processes?

[lowell holmes]

Come on guys, we all know that we need at least one of each kind of tool.:)

I only have ten bench planes and eight apron planes.

[lowell holmes]

Jim, i just went to the shop and counted, I have ten bench planes and six apron planes.
And I need all of them.:)
How many do you have?

[Tony Wilkins]

Come on guys, we all know that we need at least three of each kind of tool.:)

I only have ten bench planes and eight apron planes.

Fixed it for you.

[Charles Guest]

Regarding scrub planes: The British writers Wells and Hooper, in Modern Cabinet Work (1908), mention the first plane used on a rough board is the "Bismarck." A line drawing of the plane is shown and it's clearly an E.C. Emmerich/Ulmia style German wooden scrub plane with the front 'horn' handle -- "a single iron plane for taking off the dirt and first rough surface of boards." It's pictured right along with all the rest of the planes you'd expect to see represented in a British kit - wooden planes, infills, shoulder planes, routers, etc.

This plane is also listed in their rather complete list of a kit of recommended tools.

[Jim Koepke]

Jim, i just went to the shop and counted, I have ten bench planes and six apron planes.
And I need all of them.:)
How many do you have?

If we are only counting bench planes (Stanley/Bailey style planes) counting a #62 there are 20 that come to mind right away. Oops, that number has been changed a few times and more planes keep coming to mind. Many years ago, when the tally of all my planes was quickly passing 60, keeping count was seen as futile. Not counting them has made me free. :D

Our power went out last night and was still out this morning. Since our house is all electric, we decided to go out for breakfast. Afterward we stopped at an antique shop. My attention was still drawn to a type 13 #4. It was too rusty for me at $20. It had other problems to boot.

If a plane comes along at an irresistible price, it will likely come home with me. Even my $3 Dunlap (Millers Falls) #3D gets used regularly.

jtk

[Scott Winners]

Late to the party, but still an active discussion. I did spend the $30 for a #4 size plane from the BORG. Useless as a smoother, but after I cambered the blade and opened up the mouth a bit I have a perfectly adequate, dedicated scrub plane for cheap.

I am pretty sure what planes you "need" really depends on what you are doing. I have a shoulder plane for putting a special fussy bevel on the ends of boat planks when building lapstrake. I own the plane, but hardly ever build lapstrake.

I do own a # 3 size smoother, but I have pretty large hands and usually skip over it from block plane to a #4 or 4 1/2.

I do own a #5, but for now I'll have my stock milled at the dealer rather than start looking or 7s or 8s. That could change if I learn to resaw. Since I don't thickness planks in my shop at this time, I don't need anything bigger than a 5.

For building things with corners on them and starting with thicknessed stock, a block plane and a 4 or 4 1/2 I would add a router plane next - but electric router is the power tool I like the least.

With those three planes in house I would advise filling out the rest of the basics (crosscut saw, rip saw, marking knife, dovetail saw, some chisels, mallet and etc) before buying one of every plane.

EDIT Except a jointer. I will go buy a jointer toorrow.

[Tom M King]

I don't have any idea for a given number, but one of each, and multiples of some works pretty good.

[Matthew Springer]

I don't have nearly the experience of everyone here but that's never stopped me before.

If I can make a suggestion to build on what was said earlier in the thread: Figure out what kind of shavings you want to take, then work backwards. Within reason, you can set up a typical bench plane to do lots of things, just not all at once. The only real constant is the length and width, but the other aspects: cut depth, camber and mouth tightness, chipbreaker offset are easyish to adjust. It's more about being able to grab the right setup quickly (tight mouth, light camber, super light cut vs "take off lots of wood fast mode" ) more than a specific plane. You can totally use a #7 as a smoother. It's just slower and you need to re set it up to do edge jointing efficiently.

I did buy a #3 and retro fitted a LV pmv11 iron to it. I use it a lot since my main smoother is a #4-1/2. By the time I reach for the #3, it means I don't care if the board is getting less flat as long as it is getting prettier so the shortness is an asset since I dont want to plane off things around the area I need to prettify. I also found it was convenient to have a #6 and #7 with one cambered and one not. I probably should camber the #6 and sharpen the #7 straight across but I ended up the other way around.

For hogging off wood, it really doesn't matter if it's a #4-1/2 vs a true #5 or a #4 or a #5-1/2. The thing that does the deed is an open mouth, heavy cut and lots of camber.

My own setup, I ended up with two of everything, two jacks (5 and 5-1/2), two smoothers (#3 and a 4-1/2) and two jointers (7 and 6). Some folks swear by the low angle setups and I find these are handy because you can change pitch quickly, so I ended up with a jack and smoother in that config as well but honestly their main utility is it something extra to grab that is likely sharper than my main plane.

[John Isgren]

I am new here and just starting to get back into woodworking. I used to have a fairly typical, complete machine-based shop based around a Delta contractor saw. After moving I did not have the space and got rid of everything. Now that I have space was thinking of buying power tools again, but then saw Paul Sears and Rob Cossman videos and now plan to go hand tools. (I’ll start another thread on my overal shopping list). Once I get through my first list of projects - workbench, tools box, saw bench, etc. I have a list of furniture and cabinets I am supposed to make....

Right now for planes I am thinking:
#4, #5, and #7 block planes. (I have a nice vintage 5, and two 4s of questionable quality.
The Veritas joinery kit (plough, skew rabbet, router, medium shoulder)
LN block plane (on the fence for this one)

I will be adding a Dewalt planer for cleaning up stock — did I mention I have a sawmill and live on 100 acres?

[Jim Koepke]

Howdy John and welcome.

Have you done anything to the #4 "of questionable quality"?

Can you post images?

Check out:

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?103805-Neanderthal-wisdom-FAQs

for a few posts on cleaning up and tuning an old plane into a good user.

jtk

[John Isgren]

One of the #4s is a Stanley Handiman, the other is no name with a pressed metal frog. I haven’t touched the off-brand one yet, but it’s sole is pretty scored on the bottom. The Handyman is in good shape so I just did a quick flattening of the iron, and sharpened per Paul Sears process. The blade is actually slightly skewed so I just tried using it as more of a scrub plane on a workbench of 2x4s I cobbled together.

the 5 I spent a little more time on, and am I pin love with that plane. Even with a broken tote it feels right in the hand! I need to flatten the bases and take the edges of the blade off better.

I am throwing together a bench top for some legs I made 20 years ago. These are 2x4s glued up straight from the lumber yard. I will have to get pictures of the other planes this weekend. Still in the rough state so lots of plane tracks!

400868

[Jim Koepke]

Good looking bench top.

Are there any good yard sales or flea markets in your area?

jtk

[John Isgren]

Not really as we are out in the country. We do have some “trade days” and some flea markets but the the pickings are slim.

[Jim Koepke]

Not really as we are out in the country. We do have some “trade days” and some flea markets but the the pickings are slim.

That is too bad. A #7 is difficult to find in the wild. Most of the planes at yard sales are #4s or #5s since those were the most common for carpenters and home shop woodworkers. A #7 was usually only something a cabinet maker or other fine woodworking person would have.

My #7 was found at an antique shop:

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?114373

It cost me $21.25 with tax.

One of my #8s is considered my most expensive five dollar plane. It cost $5 at the Habitat for Humanity Restore. It came with a broken frog that cost about $35 with shipping. It is sitting waiting for me to get a round tuit to repair the tote and put it back together.

The deals are out there, you just have to keep looking and be vigilant.

jtk