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Tony South
12-07-2018, 12:18 PM
hello everybody
i am in the market to buy a fiber laser. i currently do laser welding at my shop and we use alpha laser. i will want to use the engraver for firearms and many metal parts used in the mold industry that we deal with. another thing i want to do is some plastic, like glock frames, doing stippling designs on them. i have been looking at ray fine lasers. i am looking at ether a 30w or 50w for sure. i also am torn between getting a raycus or an ipg power source also deciding if i should get mopa or not. i have 15 grand saved up that i want to spend on an engraver. the most expensive would be the 50w ipg from ray fine. i see that the raycus has a 30-100khz and the ipg has a 30-200khz and also wondering about that. my other option is to go with a us company that sells a Chinese laser that they say is set up for doing firearms. the thing is is they sell a 30w fiber and don't sell the laser without a week long training in texas. the total cost for the training and laser is around 15 grand. their website is https://salelasers.com i am just ready for some input on what the best laser for the money is for what I'm doing. and if its worth to go get the training or if i should go with a ray fine machine and learn on my own. thanks!

James Walker
12-07-2018, 4:11 PM
Hi Tony,

If you can wait a week or so, I will let you know my opinion of a Rayfine purchase. I have had my laser for about 1 1/2 years with very little time on it and it is in a comtroled temperature environment. About a month ago my galvo head started oscillating when using the red light for placement and before I could stop it one of the mirrors broke. Rayfine wanted me to send the head back at my cost which I was not happy about having to cover the cost but I need the machine back in operation so I sent it back at my expense. The machine is supposed to have a 2 year full warranty but after having the head for a week they notified me that the seal on the galvo was compromised and indicated that I may be out of luck. So I sent them a picture that I took of the head off of the machine before shipping and I am waiting for their response from EZCAD as to whether or not they will cover. The head was packaged very well in packing foam so I am sure that unless customs did something the seal was not damaged in shipping. Right now I am concerned that they are not wanting to fulfill their warranty. I am also concerned that the head may be a symptom of another problem such as the motherboard. I am hopeful that Rayfine does the right thing but only time will tell. If Rayfine does the right thing I will surely create a new thread and give them their due credit.

So I will let you know how they handle my issues and maybe that will help you with your decision.
398244

Tony South
12-07-2018, 5:49 PM
Hi Tony,

If you can wait a week or so, I will let you know my opinion of a Rayfine purchase. I have had my laser for about 1 1/2 years with very little time on it and it is in a comtroled temperature environment. About a month ago my galvo head started oscillating when using the red light for placement and before I could stop it one of the mirrors broke. Rayfine wanted me to send the head back at my cost which I was not happy about having to cover the cost but I need the machine back in operation so I sent it back at my expense. The machine is supposed to have a 2 year full warranty but after having the head for a week they notified me that the seal on the galvo was compromised and indicated that I may be out of luck. So I sent them a picture that I took of the head off of the machine before shipping and I am waiting for their response from EZCAD as to whether or not they will cover. The head was packaged very well in packing foam so I am sure that unless customs did something the seal was not damaged in shipping. Right now I am concerned that they are not wanting to fulfill their warranty. I am also concerned that the head may be a symptom of another problem such as the motherboard. I am hopeful that Rayfine does the right thing but only time will tell. If Rayfine does the right thing I will surely create a new thread and give them their due credit.

So I will let you know how they handle my issues and maybe that will help you with your decision.
398244


Okay, thanks for your response. This was the problem I was scared of from the get go but they seemed to be convincing on the warranty deal, but we will see. Do you have any other recommendations on where i could get a laser in my price range. Buy from a us supplier with better support and replacement parts? I hope they replace your laser scan head!

James Walker
12-07-2018, 8:14 PM
Tony - Thanks for your best wishes. I think my situation is a good test for as to to whether you should consider a purchase from Rayfine. I bought from them based on positive input from others on this site but I think everyone generally wants to give positive input and it is easy to evaluate your experience with a positive outlook when nothing serious has happened and your minor problems have been corrected. My problem is more severe than I think most have experienced so a much better test as to what kind of company Rayfine really is. I hope that I will be able to give them a shining review and that it is a help to others. That is why I responded to your post.

As far as a USA source I can not give advise but I am confident that others here will give you good advise. There are a lot of very experienced users here with a wealth of knowledge of the industry and they are very willing to help.

Brian Book
12-07-2018, 11:18 PM
I can also chime in to say Rayfine beat me around the bush for over 6 weeks having me doing test after test and after all was said and done they said there was nothing wrong with my machine .... the tube ended up being the culprit and they did not fulfill their warranty ... my machine only had 5 months of use on it at the time .. I told them then at the time that I would not do business with them again .... they didn't seem too concerned.

Gary Hair
12-08-2018, 6:30 AM
Check with Jimani in California. They are amazing with support and will treat you right.

Tony South
12-08-2018, 8:19 AM
Check with Jimani in California. They are amazing with support and will treat you right.

Thanks! I have sent them a message on what I’m looking for in my budget range. (:

John Lifer
12-08-2018, 11:07 AM
I've got two of their machines, but I'll not say I've had enough issues to opine on warranty service.

But I will say to get the machine with the largest frequency range if you plan on plastic engraving. Mine is mopa, but only up to 400khz. Jpt source. Does glocks fine, won't work on p80 frames except to burn them. Don't know if higher frequency will help on those. If anyone has successfully stippled p80 with fiber give me a shout. I can do it with co2, but only sides, head in the way on back and underneath (along way harder setup in my opinion ).

Scott Shepherd
12-08-2018, 11:27 AM
I don't have any experience with Rayfine but I will caution you on buying from China. Note that it's only a cautionary statement on what can happen, not a statement about what will happen. We had a laser stop working. Worked for one part, then the next, it didn't. Supplier (who shall remain nameless) tells me that the warranty is 1 year and it's out of warranty. $3,500 for a new source. I find someone in the US that sells them, and in the conversation, they tell me the warranty is 2 years from the manufacturer. I contact the original seller back and tell them that the warranty is 2 years from the factory, not one year as stated. After a couple days, they tell me that they have made a mistake and it's two years, so please send the item back to them for repair by the laser source manufacturer. Only way you can send it is DHL Global Priority. USPS won't offer insurance for more than $100 for Global. So $450 or so later, it's on the way to China via DHL express. It get stopped at Customs because we put an insurance value of $2000 on it (the most they'd do) in case we never see it again. Customs says we owe $800 in duties for selling this into China.

We explain that it's an item sent under warranty and it's being repaired. They don't care. The factory doesn't want to deal with any of it so they just let it sit and keep telling us to pay the duties or get the package back and mark "$0" on the value. So $450 to send it back to us, then we'd have to send it again for another $450 and back to us for $450 more, meaning $1,800 in shipping costs to have something repaired under warranty. This drags on, the factory stops answering emails from us and it all goes dark.

Takes us nearly 3 MONTHS to get the repaired version back and on the machine. We lost 3 months of production (and some customers).

I only tell the story to educate people on what can happen. For us, if another one were ever in the works, I'd want a US person that has parts in stock and stands behind what they sell.

I found the Chinese sellers to speak perfect English when trying to make a sale and almost no English when you need help or support from them. That was my experience.

James Walker
12-08-2018, 12:53 PM
Scott - I am curious as to why you did not name the supplier that did not treat you right. The reason that I responded to the original post was so that others that come here for advise would be able to have a real reference to use to make their purchase decision. I based my decision to buy from Rayfine based on the raving reviews here regarding Rayfine and their customer service after the sale but as I stated earlier I suspect now that they were from people that were not dealing with an expensive issues. So how Rayfine handles this will hopefully give others a reference as to what type of company that they are and have an impact on Rayfines future sales. If they don't make it right I will go out of my way to make as many people know so that they can be spared from making a bad descision. If they make it right then I will also go out of my way to make it known what a great company that they are. The company that you were dealing with deserves to be called out for their unethical business practices to spare others from making the mistake of buying from them. Jim

Tony South
12-08-2018, 12:57 PM
I don't have any experience with Rayfine but I will caution you on buying from China. Note that it's only a cautionary statement on what can happen, not a statement about what will happen. We had a laser stop working. Worked for one part, then the next, it didn't. Supplier (who shall remain nameless) tells me that the warranty is 1 year and it's out of warranty. $3,500 for a new source. I find someone in the US that sells them, and in the conversation, they tell me the warranty is 2 years from the manufacturer. I contact the original seller back and tell them that the warranty is 2 years from the factory, not one year as stated. After a couple days, they tell me that they have made a mistake and it's two years, so please send the item back to them for repair by the laser source manufacturer. Only way you can send it is DHL Global Priority. USPS won't offer insurance for more than $100 for Global. So $450 or so later, it's on the way to China via DHL express. It get stopped at Customs because we put an insurance value of $2000 on it (the most they'd do) in case we never see it again. Customs says we owe $800 in duties for selling this into China.

We explain that it's an item sent under warranty and it's being repaired. They don't care. The factory doesn't want to deal with any of it so they just let it sit and keep telling us to pay the duties or get the package back and mark "$0" on the value. So $450 to send it back to us, then we'd have to send it again for another $450 and back to us for $450 more, meaning $1,800 in shipping costs to have something repaired under warranty. This drags on, the factory stops answering emails from us and it all goes dark.

Takes us nearly 3 MONTHS to get the repaired version back and on the machine. We lost 3 months of production (and some customers).

I only tell the story to educate people on what can happen. For us, if another one were ever in the works, I'd want a US person that has parts in stock and stands behind what they sell.

I found the Chinese sellers to speak perfect English when trying to make a sale and almost no English when you need help or support from them. That was my experience.


Okay I think with most of you saying that it is cheaper to buy direct from China. But I’m not going to be able to get parts when they break. I am going to just bite the bullet and go with a 30w Chinese laser from a us dealer that has replacement parts and service. That way I don’t have to worry about shipping parts to China and wasting money on customs. With that being said I will most likely have to go with a 30w because of the pricing on the lasers sold by someone in the us. What are some good prices and places to buy Chinese lasers in the us? I have had a quote of 8995 with like another grand in shipping and a rotary and another lens. So like 10500 or so for a 30w raycus and a “better version of Ezcad” from engraving machines plus. I have messaged jimani but no quote yet. Any other places to get a laser from inside the us? Thank you all for the info. I am learning a lot and want to make the right decision on the best machine for the money. (: thanks!

Steve Utick
12-08-2018, 1:11 PM
Okay I think with most of you saying that it is cheaper to buy direct from China. But I’m not going to be able to get parts when they break. I am going to just bite the bullet and go with a 30w Chinese laser from a us dealer that has replacement parts and service. That way I don’t have to worry about shipping parts to China and wasting money on customs and that bs. With that being said I will most likely have to go with a 30w because of the pricing on the lasers sold by someone in the us. What are some good prices and places to buy Chinese lasers in the us? I have had a quote of 8995 with like another grand in shipping and a rotary and another lens. So like 10500 or so for a 30w raycus and a “better version of Ezcad” from engraving machines plus. I have messaged jimani but no quote yet. Any other places to get a laser from inside the us? Thank you all for the info. I am learning a lot and want to make the right decision on the best machine for the money. (: thanks!

I've got a 30w 3D MOPA fiber from Radian Lasers here in the US. http://www.radianlaser.com/ Chinese sourced, but with US sales and support. Met them in person at a show, and have been fairly happy with support so far. Haven't had any issues requiring warranty replacement of anything though, so can't speak to that.

Scott Shepherd
12-08-2018, 2:33 PM
Scott - I am curious as to why you did not name the supplier that did not treat you right. The reason that I responded to the original post was so that others that come here for advise would be able to have a real reference to use to make their purchase decision. I based my decision to buy from Rayfine based on the raving reviews here regarding Rayfine and their customer service after the sale but as I stated earlier I suspect now that they were from people that were not dealing with an expensive issues. So how Rayfine handles this will hopefully give others a reference as to what type of company that they are and have an impact on Rayfines future sales. If they don't make it right I will go out of my way to make as many people know so that they can be spared from making a bad descision. If they make it right then I will also go out of my way to make it known what a great company that they are. The company that you were dealing with deserves to be called out for their unethical business practices to spare others from making the mistake of buying from them. Jim

James, it was 3-4 years ago when this happened. Whether or not they are still like that today, I have no idea. Not to mention the fact that they told me (emailed me a demo) of EZCAD and when my machine got here, it had EZCAD Lite on it, which is VERY limited on some features. When I mentioned it, I was told (and I verified it with the board manufacturer) that the board they put in the computer would not run anything but EZCAD Lite. The board manufacturer said it wouldn't be a simple swap, it would have to have their engineering team involved, and the board itself was $800, if I recall correctly. When I went to the people that sold it to us, and I'm quoting, "We are very sorry, please sell your machine to someone you know and order another one and we will be sure that is has the full version of EZCAD on that one". You are kidding, right? Nope, not kidding. Dead serious.

Bert McMahan
12-10-2018, 8:41 PM
Only way you can send it is DHL Global Priority. USPS won't offer insurance for more than $100 for Global.

FYI, this isn't the case anymore. USPS offers $2,499 insurance to China:

https://pe.usps.com/text/imm/ce_009.htm

If I read the chart right it's $24 for insurance. Additionally, if you use Stamps.com, I think you can get international insurance through them directly.

Scott Shepherd
12-11-2018, 8:11 AM
FYI, this isn't the case anymore. USPS offers $2,499 insurance to China:

https://pe.usps.com/text/imm/ce_009.htm

If I read the chart right it's $24 for insurance. Additionally, if you use Stamps.com, I think you can get international insurance through them directly.

Good to know. I sure didn't enjoy paying for DHL Global Express both ways. I first stop was the USPS at that time.

Trey Tull
12-11-2018, 11:17 AM
Below is my experience with RayFine.

Earlier this year, I ordered a 30w MOPA with a JPT M6-L1 source, XY table, mark while engraving board, 3 pair of safety glasses, rotary and 110x110, 200x200 and 300x300 lenses. They sent over an invoice and I paid the initial amount to get the build started. About 2 weeks later I sent the remaining porting of the invoice and was told the laser was going to be shipped. A week or so went by so I inquired about shipment and was told JPT was moving facilities and the M6-L1 source wasn't a stock item. Another week or so went by and they sent notification that the M6-L1 source had arrived and it was going to under go testing. Another week or so went by and I inquired about shipment again. This time I was told my machine was the first fiber that Rayfine had done with the mark while engraving board and they were using my machine to make some tutorial videos that would assist me in using it. Shipping notification finally arrived and the laser was on its way. Once in the country and was held up by FedEx due to weather but upon arrival, I quickly noticed I didn't received my 300x300 lens and my 110x110 was really a 100x100. An email went out to my guy at Rayfine, letting them know a lens was missing and one was wrong.

Next came the setup and the learning process. I got it hooked up and realized something was terribly wrong. The mirrors wouldn't move at all, so I contacted my guy at RayFine and they tried to help trouble shoot the problem but with the major time difference, it was taking days to work through the process. Luckily one of the members on this site was generous enough to help me diagnose the issue and it turned out the cable that controls the mirrors wasn't hooked up inside the tower. After plugging it in, we were off to the races. I still hadn't received a shipping confirmation on the other lens so some more emails went back and forth with the promise that it was going to come but never did.

I then ended up purchasing an automated conveyor setup from them and asked my guy to make sure and put the lens in with that shipment. The conveyor was paid for and once again a few weeks went buy with no shipment notification. I was told it was undergoing testing and not to worry. Finally after a month or so, I told them I needed the conveyor and to send it on. The conveyor showed up and 3 of the leveling feet were busted off during shipping but the 300x300 lens was in there. I asked for some replacement feet but was told those were on there for shipping purposes and I could just remove them.

The conveyor came with absolutely zero and I mean ZERO instructions or paperwork, which made it difficult to get setup properly. There is a control panel with different features but its just letters and numbers. I asked my guy at Rayfine for instruction on multiple occasions but still nothing. After some tinkering and changing setting, I thought we had figured out but then ran into the belt moving issue. (See my post on Stopping a BLDC motor). That has been resolved thanks to some new bearings and a little machining.

All in all, my experience wasn't terrible but it certainly wasn't as easy as my first Universal Laser purchase. Also, you can forget about tech support on these Chinese lasers. If you aren't handy or enjoy tinkering on things, I would stick with something from the US.

Hope this helps.

Tony South
12-12-2018, 9:43 PM
well I ended up with a 50w raycus from a us dealer who sells Chinese machines. also got a rotary, 100mm, and 200mm lens with my laser. I went with this and now I have support and a better version of ez cad. I still got everything I wanted within my budget and I will actually have somebody to speak with in the U.S. also they will test my machine so it will work when I get it. (: thanks everybody for the info on making the right decision. I bought from. engraving machines plus in Florida. maybe once I figure out the ins and out of these machines like I know my laser welders I can go with china and work on it myself and save a few bucks.

James Walker
01-13-2019, 8:53 AM
Hi Folks - I wanted to reply here in this tread of my experience with Rayfine repairing my scanner head still under warranty so that anyone searching and reading would have the complete story. I sent the head back to them at my expense which wasn't bad. I think it cost me about 120 dollars. When they received the head they informed me that the security seal had been compromised and they felt that EZCAD ( the manufacture of the head ) would not warranty. I sent them pictures of the head, showing an intact seal, that I took before shipping with an explanation that only a fool would attempt to open the head while it was still under warranty. They assured me that they would argue my case for me with EZCAD. EZCAD examined the head and apparently agreed to repair it but they needed my lens to fine tune it. I did not send a lens with the head because I did not think it was necessary and wanted to keep the weight down. Also I was not sure that I would ever see anything back that I would send to China. I agreed to buying a new lens for $150.00 which I think really was to help cover the cost of return shipping. My gut tells me that perhaps EZCAD's warranty on the scanner head may have only been a year and Rayfine had to pick up the tab on this so my purchase of a new lens helped soften the blow to them I don't know this for sure and never will but for me it was an acceptable workaround as I now have a second 160 lens. The head got repaired and returned to me so I am happy with that. The total time from me being down till I was back in operation took 2 1/2 months which was a lot longer than I wanted but one also has to consider that 20 days of that were taken up by ship time. My point of contact with Rayfine has always been Miss Jiang and she was always courteous and helpful and all throughout the experience assured me that they would do their best to make it right. My calibration program wasn't working correctly and the Rayfine tech was quick at getting me replacement software and headed in the right direction. I must say that Rayfine tech has always been very helpful with support when ever I needed them. I just wanted to post this so that others trying to make a purchase decision would have honest feedback to help them decide the correct path for them. In summary I would say that Rayfine is a good company that places a value on their reputation and offers good technical support after the sale. Thanks, Jim

Kev Williams
01-13-2019, 9:22 PM
Since we're talking Chinese customer service experiences:

While my Triumph fiber was under warranty, it started doing some really funky engraving. I emailed Yolanda with some pics. Meanwhile, I opened the machine, pulled all the cables I could find, sprayed all the connectors with cleaner and re-plugged in everything. I took apart the scanhead plug that went to the controller, there was a little more solder than necessary in some places (a lot actually) but nothing creating a new circuit. After doing all that, the machine never messed up again. However, Triumph insisted on sending me a new scanhead regardless. It showed up about 10 days after my first email, just about the time the Chinese new year vacation got rolling. When I opened the package, the scanhead was surrounded by a full foam shell that was then surrounded by a bunch of that 'tubular' bubble pack. Despite all that, the lens collar was bent! I emailed Triumph and was told to just remove the collar and check the scanhead to see if it worked correctly. Since my machine was working okay at the time I just used it as is until the Chinese holiday got over. When it was all said and done, I didn't get my old one shipped back, or the new one installed until 3 months later. They didn't seen concerned at all about the time I had 2 scanheads... Getting the bent collar off required drilling a hole thru it so I could use a screwdriver for leverage. They got a kick out of that... I too paid for shipping, $45 each way I think it was. The machine has worked flawlessly since I cleaned the connectors, so at least the new scanhead works.

A few years ago Triumph made me some different length lens tubes I needed for my 80w 1390, I thought 3 for $100 shipped was fair for custom made tubes. As I mentioned in another thread, they even send me Xmas cards :)

toni plaza
01-17-2019, 7:49 PM
if you have 15G i suggest Keyence MD-F family markers, MD-F3000, MD-F5000, MD-F3100, MD-F5100, MD-F3200, MD-F5200. Used off eBay Japanese marker is better 10 times. Chinese markers are just toys, example resolution of MD-F is 2μm or 5μm
resolution of Chinese markers is 30μm or 50μm, speed is almost double 12000mm/s - vs 7000/8000mm/s from China, etc.... in addition fiber markers are rated for over/above 50000 hours of marking time, Japaneses markers have build in clock counter so you'll know exactly what you are buying, Chinese markers are just for the first time buyer, later have no value. Or even something like MD-V9600 family, older but small, specs 1-200khz speed 6000/8000mm/s Regards.