Power Feeder Mounting on a Shaper.

[Mike Cutler]

A few months back there was a thread on shapers, I can't find it now, and during the course of the thread there was a good discussion on the use, and non use, of a power feeder, which got me to thinking I should look into getting one.
I have been around wood working machines, and shapers, since I was 12 or 13 years old and had never used a power feeder before.The type of projects I have done just didn't lend themselves to it's use with a power feeder, but I did listen, or read as it may be, the folks that were firmly in support of the use of the power feeder with a shaper, so I actively started looking for one on Craigslist for a cabinet project i now have to do. I found one this past weekend.
I found a 1/2HP, 3 wheeled ,Comatic AF-308, from 2004, that had been in storage for a few years. It's actually in really good shape,and works well. Now I need to mount it to my Delta 43-375 shaper.
The bolt pattern of the base mount of this power feeder is different than the holes drilled in the top of my shaper, so I need to drill mounting holes. The bolt pattern is 3-1/2" x 4-1/4", and uses 1/2" bolts.
Is it better to mount the feeder in the back left, or right of the shaper? It seems as if the back left will be easier, as the motor pulleys might be in the way on the right to get in there and bolt it in place once the holes are drilled.
I'm also open to a solution that doesn't involve drilling holes. I can drill the holes easy enough, but if there is an alternative to drilling, I'd like to investigate it.

Any tips and tricks, or just good info, with respect to the use of the power feeder are appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Mike

[Mel Fulks]

I like it on your left back corner. That way you can make a tall long fence that can be clamped diagonally and run tall
material. Only height limit is the roof.

[Mark Bolton]

If your shaper is reversible the corner really doesnt matter. We are on the rear left but table is tapped for either. I'd advise you to make sure whatever you drill and tap is in solid material. Many shapers now have webbed bottoms.and only have full thickness material in bosses in the castings for given tap locations. May not be something to worry about but a peek under the table will tell.

[Mike Kees]

Mike ,I bolted my power feeder to a junk tablesaw extension after drilling it for the feeder mount. My shaper is a smaller one and my feeder is a one horse so a bit big for my machine,it works well. My shaper table was drilled and tapped for an extension on the back. Mike.

[Warren Lake]

have both sides same time, wheels one and track the other. I sometimes think on the left is safer if it ever moves, more chance it will go away from the cutter. Havent sort that out, say it were to swivel on the base. I dont trust them anymore as i had a europa that moved. Ill put a wood block in so its a second back up to clamping. I just drill the tops sometimes tapping the top and sometimes oversize with nuts on the bottom or do both

[jack forsberg]

To Right no exception I like the damn thing where I’m standing

[Darcy Warner]

Always put them back left. Drill and tap, unless I am in a hurry and the tables are thick (never had one that wasn't thick)

[Jared Sankovich]

mine are all mounted on the back right

[Martin Wasner]

I think mine are all back left. No real reason either.

[Kevin Beitz]

You might want to look into this...

Grizzly G4175 - Quick Holder
​http://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-Quick-Holder/G4175

[Mike Cutler]

Thanks folks.
Seems as if either left ,or right, have no significant drawbacks. I'll probably try left first, only because I would want to remove the motor and pulley to mount it to the right.

Kevin Beitz
I saw those, but I can't find much info other than the Grizzly Catalog on them. I might call them to ask about the spacing of the pre-drilled holes, I may also just buy a scrap of steel plate and make one. That way I could try either left or right.

Mike Kees
Well, that's a solution. I have three spare CI extension wings that I never use.

Mark Bolton
Yep, it's reversible.
I've looked at the thickness of the table and I wouldn't be comfortable with tapped holes. I don't think there is sufficient table top thickness for the thread engagement of a 1/2" bolt. It would be through bolted.
As an aside, it was actually your posts, and Martin Wassner's, in that thread a few months back, that convinced me to find a feeder and begin to use it.
Interestingly enough, the person I bought it from had lost the tips of his right index and middle finger to a panel raising cutter.:eek: It did make me realize that I wasn't wasting $$$$ buying it.

Thank you for the feedback folks. Now to order new wheels/tires for it. I think it may have been setting on the wheels in storage for a a few years, there is a noticeable ""hop" at one point in the feed.

[Larry Edgerton]

Center between the two spindles, your results may vary.:)

One thing I have done wrong before is put it too far back. Think of the feeder in the vertical position and running thick stock and set it so it can do that. Also, the least amount of arm you are running on the less flex you will have, and the easier it will be to crank it up from the front of the machine.

[Tim Bueler]

Mike, like you I didn't have any experience with a power feeder. At first I hated it but thanks to advice from the folks on this forum I got new wheels from Western Roller (the purple ones, as advised by them because they grip better on the smooth materials I run most). That was a game changer and now I wouldn't be without a power feed. I'm sure you'll love it!

My shaper was drilled for either corner. I started off on the back right (the feed side for me) and ended up on the back left (the exit side for me). I prefer the back left. The only difference for me was my work flow and orientation of other machines nearby favor the back left mounting. YMMV.

[Joe Calhoon]

I have had them mounted both left and right. All right side now because of side mount sliders and feeders on the post arm.
if I remember correctly left mounted is easier to flip a conventional feeder for feeding vertically against the fence.

[Mike Cutler]

Larry
i don't think I can center it. My shaper has a single spindle and the dust collection goes straight out the back. I hear you about the length of the arm, and to keep it to a minimum to preclude to much flex. It looks like it will be at max, 14" column center, to feeder inboard wheel once mounted.

Tim
I have an email into Western Roller to get replacement wheels.
I don't think I'll "hate" the power feeder, at least I hope not. I've "G" clamped it to the shaper to get a feel for it, so from here it's just a matter of fine tuning it. I'm sure I'll still do feeding by hand for the "one off" curved stuff.

Joe
I don't know about flipping it on it's side to feed vertically. That's probably more advanced than I'll ever need. It does sound interesting for re-sawing on a bandsaw, but i'm a long way from that I think.

[Jim Morgan]

Mike, I am a complete amateur with a home basement shop. I saw a 1/4HP feeder on CL a little while back at a good price, brought it home, and then, like you, had to figure out how to mount it on the machines on which I might use it (tablesaw & router table for the moment). I had a left-over chunk of 8/4 white oak that I bolted the base onto & glued some 100 grit sand paper to the bottom. So far I have just clamped this base to one corner or another of the machine I'm using, and this has worked fine. It is a pleasure to be able to climb cut safely! This set-up probably would not be adequate for production runs or large, heavy timbers, but it works for furniture-sized projects and is easy to relocate. YMMV.

The slowest speed my feeder is capable of is 13fpm, too fast for resawing, so it probably won't see any time on the bandsaw.

-- Jim

p.s. this is a good way to try out your feeder in different locations before committing to drilling your machine tables.

[Mike Cutler]

James

Thank you for the feedback.
Being winter, and my shop unheated, I have some time to sort it out and try a few things. I think the slowest speed on the one I have is 9.5 ft/min. Right now it's set for 15ft/min. I don't do this for a living either, so it should be more than adequate for my needs.
I see that you're in Providence. I bought the feeder from a gentleman in North Kingstown, a few miles north of 138 before it heads over the bridge to Newport. I've bought three items off CL from within a mile or two of the same location. Nice folks in that area.

[Mark Bolton]

I dont think you'll have much luck retrofitting the feeder to a bandsaw for resawing but I will guarantee you the very first time you run the feeder your thoughts of hand feeding for one-offs will be over with. The ease, cut quality, reduction in operator fatigue, safety, on and on. You will want to put one on any and every tool that will be benefited by it. Its one of those thing that you will begin to look for any way to run a feeder operation as opposed to a hand fed operation.

You'll see... Its a very good thing to have in the shop.

[Mark Bolton]

Mark Bolton
Yep, it's reversible.
I've looked at the thickness of the table and I wouldn't be comfortable with tapped holes. I don't think there is sufficient table top thickness for the thread engagement of a 1/2" bolt. It would be through bolted.
As an aside, it was actually your posts, and Martin Wassner's, in that thread a few months back, that convinced me to find a feeder and begin to use it.

We put a feeder mount on our slider that has a web'd table and I too didnt feel comfortable with the tapped holes. I wound up drilling and tapping a piece of 1/2" plate we had laying around and I drilled and countersunk four 5/16" flat head machine screw locations with mating holes in the 1/2" plate so the flathead screws run through the cast iron table (in locations as not to interfere with the feeder mounts) and hold the plate tight to the underside of the web'd cast iron top. Then just bored clearance holes for the 1/2" bolts to attach the feeder (long bolts run through the table into the 1/2" plate below). We keep an impact with a 1/4" hex to 1/2" drive socket adapter and a 3/4" socket nearby because we pop the feeder on and off pretty regularly (which sucks).

Ultimately I had seen a setup somewhere on the net where a guy inverted the column of his feeder (already have the work arounds for that drawn in cad) an mounted the column to a pier projecting down from the ceiling. That way when you dont need the feeder you just retract it 3" off the table and you dont have the column mounted to the table. We dont have room in our shop for multiple saws so we need to optimize. Havent gotten there yet.

[J.R. Rutter]

I have the Grizzly colored version of that feeder. It has a unique 45 degree connection to the feeder body that I think is easier to use if it is mounted back right, IIRC (it has been years since it was mounted to anything). But regardless, mock it up and see which side you prefer for ease of adjustments and clearances going from fence feeding to table feeding.

All of my current feeders are mounted back right, FWIW.

[Mel Fulks]

I'm sure I'll still do feeding by hand for the "one off" curved piece



you need a spring hold down. Buy one or make one. I don't understand why gurus are all "safety this,that". "Don't wear a
tie while using a machine.....yes,not even a bow tie!!" but mentions of hold downs are rare.

Dont know what I did wrong .perhaps a Mod can patch this up

[Warren Lake]

Like Mel I have no issues with hand feed one off or on a custom piece and even enjoy it, its how we were taught. I have feeders for years and lots good about them. Ive had them mounted on low ceilngs twice before, both times on a large welded up thing that could slide from side to side. It worked very well as it was simple and easy to move, easier than the usual crappy things on the feeder and all I had to do was clamp it in place with a clamp. On the table saw I could rip any width more or less as there was never a column in the way

[Mark Bolton]

On the table saw I could rip any width more or less as there was never a column in the way

Thats where I want to be. We use our saw as a combination panel saw, breakdown saw, and SLR. We dont have the room for all of them. A bit of my concern is the combined leverage of the column, the mast coming down from the ceiling, and losing the consistency of the feeder if the feeder were able to exert enough upward force to deflect. Im an overthinker. And all I can see is someone feeding something too thick and the feeder lifting the ceiling of my 4K sq foot shop off the ground and the building moves but the board stay still lol.

Its a massive over thought but I have seen a few situations in my shop where someone has pulled a major bonehead maneuver and I am running from 40' away to get things shut down before all hell breaks loose. We have low ceilings (10'6") so the mast coming down from the ceiling would still be 5'+ long. The leverage of the feeder mast alone is massive. Add 5' to that moment.....yikes.

[Mark Wooden]

I uuse both sides as needed but mostly back right- that way if for some reason the tower or head knuckle is loose, the feeder will move away from the cutter. On the left corner, it will pull itself into the cutter

[Mike Cutler]

I'm sure I'll still do feeding by hand for the "one off" curved piece

You need a spring hold down. Buy one or make one. I don't understand why gurus are all "safety this,that". "Don't wear a
tie while using a machine.....yes,not even a bow tie!!" but mentions of hold downs are rare.


Mel
No worries on the hold downs. I've used an assortment of them, mostly home made, as Shaw guards aren't really used much in the US.
I used to have a stack of jigs I made through the years in the shop that I finally got rid of last year. Most had warped, or distorted, from just sitting in the environment. Some of those jigs I was actually more proud of, than the object they made.
Lately I've been using the Feather Pro, feather boards. They're are nice and with a few extra bucks spent at the hardware store, you can stack them up.

[Mike Cutler]

I have the Grizzly colored version of that feeder. It has a unique 45 degree connection to the feeder body that I think is easier to use if it is mounted back right, IIRC (it has been years since it was mounted to anything). But regardless, mock it up and see which side you prefer for ease of adjustments and clearances going from fence feeding to table feeding.

All of my current feeders are mounted back right, FWIW.

That 45 degree knuckle does cause it to move in a weird plane.
I won't put in a lifetime the amount of material through it, as you probably do in a few days. I'm hoping once I get it set up, I shouldn't have to adjust it to much.

[Mel Fulks]

Thanks for the help ,Mike. They don't get enough ink!

[Jared Sankovich]

That 45 degree knuckle does cause it to move in a weird plane.
I won't put in a lifetime the amount of material through it, as you probably do in a few days. I'm hoping once I get it set up, I shouldn't have to adjust it to much.

I wish all my feeders had that knuckle, it makes the change over cake. You will be suprised how often you flip the feeder once you get used to feeding everything.

[Jared Sankovich]

I uuse both sides as needed but mostly back right- that way if for some reason the tower or head knuckle is loose, the feeder will move away from the cutter. On the left corner, it will pull itself into the cutter

Unless you are using a back fence, then it's reversed as far as a loose feeder pulling into the cutter

[Mike Cutler]

Thanks for the help ,Mike. They don't get enough ink!

Are we referring to the Feather Pro's?
They're nice. I like the fact that worst thing that can contact a blade is foam rubber, or maybe plastic. I had a wooden feather board end up rotating into a blade once. There were wood splinters flying everywhere!:eek:
Are the Feather Pro's your design?

[Scott T Smith]

Mine is mounted back right, for two reasons. First and foremost, dimensionally it works better in that location. Second, the shaper controls are on the back left side precluding mounting there. Love it.

I drilled and tapped the top of the shaper in order to bolt it directly down. Have run thousands of linear feet through it w/o any problems.

398478

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, I have that feeder, and it was mounted on the left of my shaper.

If you PM me I'll send you a manual for it, if you don't already have one.

The manual prohibits mounting on the riht of the shaper.................regards, Rod.

[Mike Cutler]

Scott
Thank you, and you're right, all of the locking mechanisms are on the right side of the feeder. I hadn't really noticed that. I'll try it there also.

Rod
I have the original manual from Comatic, but it's pretty bad. It simultaneously refers to the installation, and use, of the feeder on three machines. Table saw, jointer, and shaper. It's not always clear which machine it is referring to either. In the manual I have, every drawing shows it mounted back left though. I'll still PM you for your manual if that's okay?
I've actually been using the online Grizzly Manual for the G4179 more. It's an identical machine, and that manual is much more clearly written.


Right now I'm at a pause with the installation.
I've temporarily mounted (clamped) it to the shaper and was testing it out, setting the angle of feed, and pressure, when the motor run capacitor decided it was time to "blow". So I'm waiting for a $6.00, 25uf, 250WVAC, capacitor right now. It should be here in the next day or so. I ordered the motor start capacitor at the time. If one was ready to blow, the other is probably not far behind. I probably would have replaced both of them anyway when I actually started using it.
I also have an email back from Western Roller offering two options for wheel/tire/roller replacement:
The first is an all metal hub with replaceable tires, but the cost is fairly high. A little over $200.00 per wheel. The second is a urethane hub with a non replaceable tire. These are $38.00 each. Durometer is 70 on both.
I'm going with Option 2. I'll never put enough material through this shaper to even come close to having to worry about wearing out the tires/rollers, which would be one of the benefit of option 1,and the other being the ability to change durometer for different materials I guess??

[Mark Wooden]

Unless you are using a back fence, then it's reversed as far as a loose feeder pulling into the cutter

A back fence?

[Jared Sankovich]

A back fence?

same as a outboard fence.
398505

[Mark Bolton]

Im trying to make sense of the noga-ish mag base indicator against the inboard fence with a back fence?

[Mark Bolton]

Im trying to make sense of the noga-ish mag base indicator against the inboard fence with a back fence?

Wait, realize thats actually the back fence.. but how to you read the indicator?

[Jared Sankovich]

Wait, realize thats actually the back fence.. but how to you read the indicator?

Just like moving a table saw fence with a indicator against it, though in this case it isn't a 1 for 1 reading as one side pivots. I was actually trying to track down some inconsistencies in my setup in the pic. I found the fence was slipping .005 to .010" under the force of the feeder.