To TORMEK, or not to TORMEK - that is the question

[Frederick Skelly]

Im way over the top on sharpening equipment. I have a bunch of good sharpening stones. I have a Worksharp (that Ive never been too thrilled with). I have a Rikon slow speed grinder that I use to change bevel angles and fix chips. I once had a TORMEK clone from Triton but sent it back (not durable enough & IMO a cheap grindstone). Ive always had a hankering to try a TORMEK and I use Christmas as a time to get what I wont normally buy myself. So Im trying to decide whether or not to buy the T4 with an SE77 square edge jig.

For those of you with both sharpening stones and a TORMEK:
* How much do you use it?
* When and for what do you use it?
* Do you still use your stones?
* Any opinions on the T4 - durability, etc?

Thanks folks!
Fred

Edit: Im sharpening plane irons and chisels.

[Edwin Santos]

Im way over the top on sharpening equipment. I have a bunch of good sharpening stones. I have a Worksharp (that Ive never been too thrilled with). I have a Rikon slow speed grinder that I use to change bevel angles and fix chips. I once had a TORMEK clone from Triton but sent it back (not durable enough & IMO a cheap grindstone). Ive always had a hankering to try a TORMEK and I use Christmas as a time to get what I wont normally buy myself. So Im trying to decide whether or not to buy the T4 with an SE77 square edge jig.

For those of you with both sharpening stones and a TORMEK:
* How much do you use it?
* When and for what do you use it?
* Do you still use your stones?
* Any opinions on the T4 - durability, etc?

Thanks folks!
Fred

Edit: Im sharpening plane irons and chisels.

Hi Fred,
I have the T-7 and use it all the time. Thumbs up on quality of machine, design and ingenious jigging for consistency
I used it mostly for plane irons and chisels when I want a clean fresh starting point
From there I move on to stones, moving through the grits fairly quickly. The Tormek alone will not get me to the level of sharp I want for chisels and planes
The Tormek came in very handy when I got interested in carving and bought a few gouges
I now use it for knives and scissors around the house and finish on the Tormek stropping wheel (no stones)
I've had a couple of mini sharpening parties where I invited friends over with their kitchen knives and we sat around drinking a beer or two and sharpened a pile of knives. Tormek was front and center
I would definitely buy it again

Hope this opinion helps you,
Edwin

[mike v flaim]

I've owned a Tormek for over fifteen years and never regretted it. It works well for what it does. I don't use the strop part of it though. I grind my bevel on the Tormek then hone the edge with 6000 and 12000 water stones. I've never used any other sharpening system so I can't compare a Tormek to anything else out there. Someone once showed a website where you can buy an upgraded stone that never goes out of round and doesn't need water, but I forgot what the site was called. My stone is 7 1/2" in diameter and I use it all the time so, it will be a few more years before I need a new stone anyway.

[Andrew Seemann]

My usual sharpening ritual is to do a hollow grind with the jig on the Tormek for plane and chisel blades, then do the cutting bevel freehand on a 4000 grit water stone, and then do a quick strop on the leather wheel. I touch up the edges with either the strop, the water stone and then the strop, or a diamond stone then water stone then strop if the edge is a little roughed up. I redo the hollow grind on the Tormek when touching up the edge takes too long or the bevel starts getting rounded. I also do the wife's kitchen knives on the grinding wheel.

I have the green one from about a dozen years ago. Rockler was closing them out when they got the new model in and it was a steal. I've tried about every sharpening method except ceramic stones (and I have a drawerful of stuff to prove it), but this is the method I go back to each time.

I tend to save up (i.e. procrastinate) a bunch of things that need to be reground and do them in one sitting while watching a movie or football game. It isn't slow but it isn't real fast either. I true up the stone with the diamond jig prior to these sharpening sessions.

I really like mine. It beats stones and sandpaper by a mile for setting the initial angle. I like hand tools as much as the next guy, but I never have seen the point in doing everything as slowly and tediously as possible.

[ken hatch]

Im way over the top on sharpening equipment. I have a bunch of good sharpening stones. I have a Worksharp (that Ive never been too thrilled with). I have a Rikon slow speed grinder that I use to change bevel angles and fix chips. I once had a TORMEK clone from Triton but sent it back (not durable enough & IMO a cheap grindstone). Ive always had a hankering to try a TORMEK and I use Christmas as a time to get what I wont normally buy myself. So Im trying to decide whether or not to buy the T4 with an SE77 square edge jig.

For those of you with both sharpening stones and a TORMEK:
* How much do you use it?
* When and for what do you use it?
* Do you still use your stones?
* Any opinions on the T4 - durability, etc?

Thanks folks!
Fred

Edit: Im sharpening plane irons and chisels.

Fred,

I use mine to re-establish bevels. It works well for that job, slower than a dry grinder but but not too slow. I hone on stones, sometimes water but mostly oil.

The T-4 diamond wheel will only hollow grind. The T-7-8 (250mm) diamond wheel will flat grind as well as hollow. I'm waiting to receive a 250mm diamond wheel sometime in the next day or two and will know more once I can put it to use.

ken

[Derek Cohen]

Im way over the top on sharpening equipment. I have a bunch of good sharpening stones. I have a Worksharp (that Ive never been too thrilled with). I have a Rikon slow speed grinder that I use to change bevel angles and fix chips. I once had a TORMEK clone from Triton but sent it back (not durable enough & IMO a cheap grindstone). Ive always had a hankering to try a TORMEK and I use Christmas as a time to get what I wont normally buy myself. So Im trying to decide whether or not to buy the T4 with an SE77 square edge jig.

For those of you with both sharpening stones and a TORMEK:
* How much do you use it?
* When and for what do you use it?
* Do you still use your stones?
* Any opinions on the T4 - durability, etc?

Thanks folks!
Fred

Edit: Im sharpening plane irons and chisels.

Hi Fred

I have had a Tormek for about 10 years. Since discovering CBN wheels (180 and 80 grit) and using them on a half-speed bench grinder with the Tormek guides (about 3 years ago now), the Tormek, per se, has had minimal use. The CBN wheels are simply streets ahead in regard to set up, speed of grinding, lack of wear, never needing to be adjusted or re-surfaced .... and the use of the Tormek guides means that I have the best of both worlds.

You must have read the article I wrote a few years ago: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/UltimateGrindingSharpeningSetUp.html

My enthusiasm for this set up has not changed, and I believe that many have modelled their grinder on mine. It is a real game changer.

So my advice is to look into the cost of a half speed machine. I believe Rikon sell one. Get a 180 grit CBN wheel if you can only get one (I use this 90% of the time). I do not use the SE77 jig (I have one and find it excessively finicky, unnecessary). I use the SE76, and then add the micro camber in by hand.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Dominik Dudkiewicz]

Hi Fred,

I have a T-8 and like others use it to get/restore a hollow-grind on chisels and plane irons before moving to hand sharpening on waterstones; working up from 1000 - 6000 - 13000. I am yet to use the leather strop but will probably use it a lot when i get into carving and turning.

I also use it to grind out chips when I drop/hit a chisel but find this can take a while if a lot of materiel needs to be removed (likewise if changing the bevel angle on a blade) - it's times like this I think I'd like a regular grinder.

Overall I'm very happy with it and don't regret picking one up.

Cheers, Dom

[Frederick Skelly]

Thanks guys! This all helps me!
Have a good day.
Fred

[Pete Taran]

To take it one step further, you can eliminate completely hand stones. Tormek makes a 6000 grit waterstone which you can use to put a nice microbevel on your blade. I bought it originally and swapped out the main stone, but I liked the results so much I bought a second Tormek. One with the stock 220 grit stone, and one with the 6000 grit. Since most of my sharpening is plane irons and chisels and 25 degrees, you can bang out a lot of sharpening in a short amount of time. Highest endorsement for the Tormek!

[David Silverson]

I agree and also don’t like the se77 jig, I bought it ,tried it and returned it. I usually square the blade being sharpened in the se76 with a small square,it’s simple and it works.

[Kevin Adams]

Fred,

I use mine to re-establish bevels. It works well for that job, slower than a dry grinder but but not too slow. I hone on stones, sometimes water but mostly oil.

The T-4 diamond wheel will only hollow grind. The T-7-8 (250mm) diamond wheel will flat grind as well as hollow. I'm waiting to receive a 250mm diamond wheel sometime in the next day or two and will know more once I can put it to use.

ken

Hi Ken, curious what grit diamond wheel did you order and why?

Thanks.
Kevin

[Jim Koepke]

Get a 180 grit CBN wheel if you can only get one (I use this 90% of the time).

Interesting, this is close to the grit for my flat disc sharpening system. It also does the heavy lifting.

It is a good grit for removing light chips and then to the stones.

jtk

[Mike Henderson]

I've used Tormek units and they worked okay. The things I didn't like about them is that they're very expensive and they're a wet system. Like others who posted here, I used it simply to set the primary bevel on chisels and plane irons and then finished on stones.

For chisels, now, I use a WorkSharp to set the primary bevel and finish on stones. I can set plane iron bevels on the top of the WorkSharp, but most of my use is for chisels. The WorkSharp is a dry system and significantly less expensive than a Tormek.

If it were possible, I suggest you see if you can get access to a unit and try it out.

Mike

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I bought a Tormek with a plan to make it pay for itself by sharpening knives for extra money. It took a little over a month to pay for itself. I mainly use it to sharpen knives in bulk and sharpening power planer blades. For hand work I use stones- mainly because setup is easier, and I finish on a fine stone anyway.

If you use gouges, a Tormek is a great way to sharpen those. I use it first for those. It is also a great scissor sharpener. I love my Tormek. I can’t count the times I have needed to sharpen something weird- like a guillotine used to cut flowers- and it made quick work of it.

[Jason Martin Winnipeg]

I also have a Work Sharp 3000, but I only use it for refurbishing old chisels or plane blades. I originally bought it with the intention of using it as my primary method of sharpening, but I wasn't satisfied with the results, due to the spinning disc creating an uneven grinding.

All of my primary hand tool sharpening is done by hand on diamond plates and a leather stop now.

[Jeff Heath]

My Tormek is over 20 years old, and still going strong. I'm on my 2nd grinding wheel. I have a bunch of different jigs for it, and I think they all work great. I use it for re-establishing bevels on all my tools, including scissors, knives, chisels, plane blades, gouges, and turning tools. I do not use it for honing. I do that with 3M microabrasive.

If I need to establish a proper bevel on a tool that is way out of whack, the Tormek is way too slow. I recently reground a timberframing slick that is 3 1/2" wide. It's a Greenlee. Excellent, very hard steel. It was ground by an idiot at 45°, which is why I think I got it so cheaply. I used my 2X72 belt grinder for this, and other vintage chisel regrinds, as the Tormek would have taken 2 days to do this.

What I really like about my Tormek jigs is they allow for excellent repeatability. I do a lot of different work in my shop, and turning, for instance, is not a daily occurrence. Because it isn't, I don't rely on freehanding an expensive bowl gouge. I don't want to screw it up and waste valuable metal. The Tormek jig for gouges and carving tools is instantly repeatable with the same exact results over and over.

I hone everything on 3M microabrasive on granite. I get my tools to a mirror polish and insanely sharp in minutes. Works for me. Almost all my tools are either O1 or A2.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

Lifetime investment. Sooner you buy it, sooner it starts paying for itself.

[Lasse Hilbrandt]

Hi Fred

I have had a Tormek for about 10 years. Since discovering CBN wheels (180 and 80 grit) and using them on a half-speed bench grinder with the Tormek guides (about 3 years ago now), the Tormek, per se, has had minimal use. The CBN wheels are simply streets ahead in regard to set up, speed of grinding, lack of wear, never needing to be adjusted or re-surfaced .... and the use of the Tormek guides means that I have the best of both worlds.

You must have read the article I wrote a few years ago: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/UltimateGrindingSharpeningSetUp.html

My enthusiasm for this set up has not changed, and I believe that many have modelled their grinder on mine. It is a real game changer.

So my advice is to look into the cost of a half speed machine. I believe Rikon sell one. Get a 180 grit CBN wheel if you can only get one (I use this 90% of the time). I do not use the SE77 jig (I have one and find it excessively finicky, unnecessary). I use the SE76, and then add the micro camber in by hand.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek, How important is it to grind at half speed ?

[Derek Cohen]

Lasse, grinding without over-heating the steel involves a compromise of factors. One is, the faster the wheel speed, the lighter the touch. Similarly, the finer the grit, the greater the chance of high heat, and the a lighter, shorter touch is needed. Coarser grit is cooler. A 28 grit wheel is cooler than a 180 grit wheel. The CBN wheels, being metal (some steel and some aluminium), are a large heat snk, and carry away the heat. Therefore they run cooler. It is yin and yang.

A high speed 8 " grinder will creater more heat than a half speed 8" wheel, so lighten your hand, take shorter grinding motions, check the warmth of the blade more frequently, cool in water more frequently if needed.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[phil harold]

I have the old grizzly 10” wet grinder over twenty years old , that I used for establishing bevels works well but a pain to drain in freezing conditions
I bought their version of the tormek
I like it very much
I can’t spend big bucks just to establish bevels so I went with the grizzly

[Derek Cohen]

I have the old grizzly 10” wet grinder over twenty years old , that I used for establishing bevels works well but a pain to drain in freezing conditions
I bought their version of the tormek
I like it very much
I can’t spend big bucks just to establish bevels so I went with the grizzly

If a hollow grind is the basis of your sharpening method (as it is for my Western blades), then the quality of the hollow can speed of sharpening quite considerably. This was the reason I moved to a Tormek originally, and in more recent years moved to CBN wheels. The CBN wheel is a real game changer. It allow one to safely grind to, or close to, the edge of the blade without burning but - importantly - with a straight and clean edge. It is possible to start honing with a 6000 grit stone, rather than work up to this with 1 or 2 other stones.

Here's that picture again ..

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/UltimateGrindingSharpeningSetUp_html_71b2c2d0.jpg

My argument is that you can reduce the expenditure on sharpening media if you prepare the ground with a great hollow. Saving money with a cheap grinder will force you in the other direction.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[phil harold]

My argument is that you can reduce the expenditure on sharpening media if you prepare the ground with a great hollow. Saving money with a cheap grinder will force you in the other direction.

Regards from Perth

Derek
See this is what I dont understand my sharpening media is over twenty years old
I use water stones, the top and back are used for plane blades and the sides are used for chisels
by consciously moving the blades over all the surface my stones do not cup or hollow out.

[Derek Cohen]

Phil, don't forget that I prefaced my comment with "If a hollow grind is the basis of your sharpening method..". I also hone without grinding. My Japanese blades are honed on the full face. No secondary or micro bevels. They are designed for this, and the emphasis moves to the quality of the media. My preference with hard steels, such as A2, PM-V11, and M2, is to hollow grind before honing. My explanation, above is in regard to hollow grinding.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jerry Olexa]

Have both an "older" Tormek and a Worksharp...Find the Tormek to be dependably good for the basic level..very consistant..,..,.Most people here at SMC like to take the sharpening to a higher (sharper) level....I'm pleased with mine.

[Frederick Skelly]

Thanks again everyone!
Fred

[Edwin Santos]

I may be a heretic inviting himself to be burned at the stake but .....
When I want to take a Japanese chisel to a fresh start (or change the bevel angle), I indeed use the Tormek. It's quick, safe for the steel, and accurate. Then I move on to the stones, and stay with the coarsest (800 Bester in my case) until the hollow is gone or almost gone. When I finish up, I have a flat bevel.
This doesn't take long at all because the large wheel leaves a comparatively shallow hollow. So don't feel the Tormek will not serve you if you use Japanese chisels.
I'd love to play around with a CBN wheel one day.
Edwin

[Mike Henderson]

I may be a heretic inviting himself to be burned at the stake but .....
When I want to take a Japanese chisel to a fresh start (or change the bevel angle), I indeed use the Tormek. It's quick, safe for the steel, and accurate. Then I move on to the stones, and stay with the coarsest (800 Bester in my case) until the hollow is gone or almost gone. When I finish up, I have a flat bevel.
This doesn't take long at all because the large wheel leaves a comparatively shallow hollow. So don't feel the Tormek will not serve you if you use Japanese chisels.
I'd love to play around with a CBN wheel one day.
Edwin

I put a primary bevel of 25 degrees on my Japanese chisels with my WorkSharp, then a secondary bevel of 30 to 35 degrees. I read that you have to sharpen Japanese chisels at 35 degrees but I've never had any problems with the edge failing with my process.

Mike

[Derek Cohen]

Mike

My "chopping" (aka bench) Japanese chisels (and all Western chisels used the same way) receive 30 degree bevels. I have never had a Japanese chisel fail when used this way ... and sometimes I also hollow grind the Koyamaichi dovetail chisels on the Tormek. I've never chipped one chopping into hard woods. My Kiyohisa slicks receive a flat 25 degree bevel in the traditional manner. These are pushed and never struck.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Andrew Hughes]

Oh no don’t grind a hollow on Japanese chisels. That’s just wasted steel using a work sharp like mike mentioned would be ok if one has good skills and eye like mike.
I find the steel easy to remove with stones so no grinders for me.. I like 30 degrees too.

[Eric Rathhaus]

Hi Fred - I haven't used a tormek. I have used water stones. I have a Lap-Sharp which I use as a grinder and for every grit of sharpening all the way down to polishing. It's a slow speed machine. It's pricey but I find I don't need any other system, though I do keep a glass plate with a few super fine grit papers to touch planes and chisels while working. I rehabbed a plane blade with a few chips on the edge last night. I used a diamond plate to grind the edge back to remove the chips and reset the bevel. Then I went through three progressively finer plates to flatten the back and hone the bevel. The machine brought the blade to such a high polish that when I stropped on leather with green paste, it actually dulled the shine.

[Frederick Skelly]

Thanks for the tip Eric!

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Fred - I haven't used a tormek. I have used water stones. I have a Lap-Sharp which I use as a grinder and for every grit of sharpening all the way down to polishing. It's a slow speed machine. It's pricey but I find I don't need any other system, though I do keep a glass plate with a few super fine grit papers to touch planes and chisels while working. I rehabbed a plane blade with a few chips on the edge last night. I used a diamond plate to grind the edge back to remove the chips and reset the bevel. Then I went through three progressively finer plates to flatten the back and hone the bevel. The machine brought the blade to such a high polish that when I stropped on leather with green paste, it actually dulled the shine.

Eric, how long would you say that it takes you to sharpen the average blade from dull to finish - say, a 1" chisel or a 2" plane blade? How many grits do you use, and do you have a plate for each? Lastly, how long does each last before renewing the paper?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Nicholas Lawrence]

Thanks again everyone!
Fred

Now Fred, with a question like that you should have known it would go ten pages, and last for months after you made your decision . . .

[david charlesworth]

Another heretic here.

For the last 35 years or so I have hollow ground all my Japanese chisels, at 25 degrees, on the Tormek.

I then form wire edge at 30 or 33 degrees on 800 stone, then polish tip at 32 or 35. Paring or chopping.

Like Derek I have never chipped an edge.

The Tormek is an excellent machine, for me the huge advantage is that my students will never blue an edge.

I will be testing the diamond (stone) actually steel wheel soon.

The benefit should be no more dressing of the stone!!

David

[Eric Rathhaus]

I'm assuming you are asking about a blade that doesn't need a complete rehab but just is dull from normal use. I would use two or three separate plates with separate grits on each. Probably orange, blue and pink trizact. It would take probably take less than 5' including set up if the sheets are already mounted. The size of the blade doesn't matter that much in terms of time as long as your technique is good because the disks are about 8" wide. I can't estimate the longevity of each sheet for just honing. I've been rehabbing a bunch of old plane irons and chisels recently. The size of the blade does effect longevity. I've rehabbed about 5 abused irons the size of a Stanley #6 and larger before changing sheets. My one complaint with the trizact sheets is that it isn't easy for me to judge when I should switch.