Is this a good deal?

[Kyle Foster]

So I was at the flea market thing today and I came across this. The tote is cracked and wobbly,and it is missing the iron. Pricetag said 49 I rhink 398122398123398124398125398126

[Kory Cassel]

Kyle,
I'm not a wood plane expert but my first guess is pass. If those threads are screwed up, I think it won't be restorable. The iron could cost another $20-30, and I don't think most of these planes came with that type of steel sole? Maybe a learned wood plane guy can help.

[brian zawatsky]

If you could get that to sink it would make a stylish boat anchor, but hat's about it.

[Jim Koepke]

At one time my instinct would have been to buy it and then find a use for it. Of course the $49 price tag is a bit steep for my frugal ways.

Now my inclination is to have a use in mind before buying a pricy tool.

This looks like it could be a panel raising plane.

My feeling is about the same as Kory's, give it a pass.

Sometimes one can get lucky and buy an old plane and then find a blade for it. Often it sits on the shelf waiting for that lucky day to come.

jtk

[Kory Cassel]

Nasty crud and gunk are fine, even a plus sometimes because you can tell that no one messed it up 'fixing' it in the past. Broken pieces, stripped threads, added accessories, and missing blades start to make a vintage tool less of a bargain. Be careful, restoring vintage tools is it's own addiction and you can spend a long time and a lot of money before you get back to woodworking.:D

[Jerry Olexa]

I'd pass.....IMHO

[Kyle Foster]

At one time my instinct would have been to buy it and then find a use for it. Of course the $49 price tag is a bit steep for my frugal ways.

Now my inclination is to have a use in mind before buying a pricy tool.

This looks like it could be a panel raising plane.

My feeling is about the same as Kory's, give it a pass.

Sometimes one can get lucky and buy an old plane and then find a blade for it. Often it sits on the shelf waiting for that lucky day to come.

jtk

The missing iron and broken tote were my biggest hold backs. The steel sole appeared to be factory and while I dont know all that much about these planes, the broken threads looked like they were in a spot that was unused and the got broke by an oopsie.

I didnt buy it because in my previous experiences with things that I dont know about I always lost on.

Kory - I think that I might be falling for that restoring vintage tools addiction. The big question is: do I want to be addicted or not? ��

[Kory Cassel]

The missing iron and broken tote were my biggest hold backs. The steel sole appeared to be factory and while I dont know all that much about these planes, the broken threads looked like they were in a spot that was unused and the got broke by an oopsie.

I didnt buy it because in my previous experiences with things that I dont know about I always lost on.

Kory - I think that I might be falling for that restoring vintage tools addiction. The big question is: do I want to be addicted or not? ��
It sneaks up on you Kyle.;)

If you're going Neanderthal, you're gonna want some of those vintage gems that the modern makers either aren't producing or are charging a fortune for.

I have found it rewarding to take the rusty, fixer-uppers and get them going again, but value wise, buying an already restored antique is hit or miss compared to putting the time in yourself (time is money after all). I have very little fun money and am in no rush.

If you're rearing to get busy making shavings in your shop and don't mind spending some money, it may be a good idea to discriminate and look for the vintage tools you want that are ready to go.

[Kyle Foster]

It sneaks up on you Kyle.;)

If you're going Neanderthal, you're gonna want some of those vintage gems that the modern makers either aren't producing or are charging a fortune for.

I have found it rewarding to take the rusty, fixer-uppers and get them going again, but value wise, buying an already restored antique is hit or miss compared to putting the time in yourself (time is money after all). I have very little fun money and am in no rush.

If you're rearing to get busy making shavings in your shop and don't mind spending some money, it may be a good idea to discriminate and look for the vintage tools you want that are ready to go.

Mainly I picked this up because I have a desk job and sit all day and found myself coming home and watching tv all night. I'm doing this to keep myself moving so it is kinda where the wind takes me.

[Kory Cassel]

That's worthy self-motivation there! It's all I can manage to find inspiration some weeks to do something productive around the house. My job's pretty physical.

I'm also fascinated by what little I can glimpse of how much there is to learn in the craft besides proficient modern technique. The evolution of tools, historical styles, different regional traditions...it just goes on and on. Hopefully in the end I'll get a good handle on a small slice of it.

[Jim Koepke]

Kory - I think that I might be falling for that restoring vintage tools addiction. The big question is: do I want to be addicted or not? ��

Kory already answered, but here is my 398142.

The addiction can be fun and short lived. Once you have acquired a set of tools the acquisition phase tends to slow down a bit.

My selection of tools would be quite limited if every tool was acquired new:

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To the best of my memory only four of those planes were purchased new. The purchasing of new had to wait until my income improved.

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Besides the drawers of this bench holding tools, there is another bench holding saws, braces and a lot of carving gouges.

One thing about rehabilitating old tools is it teaches a person about the tool.

Don't assume that any old tool is worth the time and effort to bring it back into service. There were a lot of things sold that merely looked like a hand plane that are not as good at the job as a first line plane made by one of the major players in the field such as Stanley, Sargent, Ohio Tool, Millers Falls and a few others foreign and domestic.

There are some good deals to be had by knowing the features of some of the makers. Stanley is known for their lateral adjuster often referred to as 'tiller style' it has a piece pressed in to the lever at the user end. Seeing this on an old Lakeside, KeenKutter or other store brand usually indicates it was made by Stanley.

Almost all of my metallic planes are made by Stanley. This means many of the parts are interchangeable and usually are not difficult to find.

My favored braces are also from Stanley.

At one time my rehab bug was used to raise money to buy new tools. That was fun, but now a tool has to be real tempting for me to bring it home. Some would have been an easy few bucks as a resell, but it is not worth the trouble for a few bucks that aren't really needed at the time.

So if you have the time but not the money buy used and learn to fettle the metal.

If you have money but little time, use the money wisely and spend more time using the tools than fixing them.

Though once they are rehabbed, they usually stay rehabbed.

jtk

[Kory Cassel]

^What he said.^

Stanley Bedrock planes though, WOW, the prices are creeping up these last years above 'value vintage' range, especially the 604. Some tools wax magnificent in cost on the market over a period of time. Advice you may need will be plentiful I'm sure Kyle.:)

[Don Orr]

Excellent advice Jim! I totally agree on all counts.
Just an FYI-there is a person over on WoodCentral Handtool forum that was looking for info and pics of a Stanley 55 box and I noticed you have what appears to be an original. You might be able to help him as you so often do here.

And I also noticed that 2 of your hammers are facing the wrong way-the ball pein and small claw in the middle have their flat faces to the right while the rest face left. Sorry, just my OCD showing. ;-) I love the photos of a working shop that is nicely organized.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

Excellent advice Jim! I totally agree on all counts. . .


Except for that part about the best braces being Stanleys . . . I agree as well.

[Jim Koepke]

Except for that part about the best braces being Stanleys . . . I agree as well.

My comment was about my favored braces being Stanley, not that they are the best.

Millers Falls and other companies made some great braces. There aren't many of them found out here in the west. Stanley braces are everywhere. Often you can find old Bell System braces that are usually the Stanley 2101 model. They are nice, but my preference is for wooden handles.

As far as planes go, many folks feel Sargent made a better plane than Stanley. Others like the early Millers Falls planes with the two piece lever cap. Then of course are the folks who love their wood bodied planes. These folks will not find an argument with me. A tool that does its intended job to perfection is good enough for me.

My point in all of this is if one wants to make life a little easier, then staying with one maker makes your simple hardware more likely to be interchangeable.

When it comes to egg beater drills, my #2 Millers Falls is a joy to have and use.

Don't accept a second rate tool because of its price. In the long run you will likely save time and money on a better tool since you will only buy it and tune it once.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

Excellent advice Jim! I totally agree on all counts.
Just an FYI-there is a person over on WoodCentral Handtool forum that was looking for info and pics of a Stanley 55 box and I noticed you have what appears to be an original. You might be able to help him as you so often do here.

And I also noticed that 2 of your hammers are facing the wrong way-the ball pein and small claw in the middle have their flat faces to the right while the rest face left. Sorry, just my OCD showing. ;-) I love the photos of a working shop that is nicely organized.


Hi Don,

The person over on WoodCentral may have also sought the images of the #55 box here on SMC. More of my time than should be is spent in front of my computer. Joining another forum would likely keep me away from the shop even more.

The hammers change direction to fit in less space. The piece of scrap was a touch short to turn them around. It also kind of tingles my CDO (there the letters are in the right order) that they do not align, but it works.

You might change your mind about my shop being organized if you ever see it in person. What saves me is being able to remember where everything is. When my residence was a small apartment with stacks of books, magazines and other clutter a friend was visiting and wondered if a magazine he loaned me was ready to be returned. It was retrieved from the middle of a stack of other magazines and handed to him. He was a bit shocked and said, "this isn't a mess, it is a highly complex storage system."

My biggest problem with loosing track of something that hasn't been used for a while is if previously it was "moved to a better place." Now my rule on moving something like this is it gets moved to the first place my memory told me to look for it.

jtk

[Pete Taran]

Kyle,

That plane is made to put a tongue on a thick piece of lumber used for flooring. Since they got heavy use, and the lumber not all the time was planed, it was plated as you can see in the picture. If you made a blade, it would work great for it's intended purpose, if you had a need to put a tongue on a piece of 6/4 lumber. The groove could be easily plowed with another plane. I agree, looks like the threads that were missing got busted up from not being protected inside the plane body and likely would not impair the use of the plane.

These types of planes are not rare, and frankly, that one is in better condition than most. Used to live up your way north of Watertown. That can be a tough area to look for old tools.

Pete

[Kyle Foster]

Kyle,

That plane is made to put a tongue on a thick piece of lumber used for flooring. Since they got heavy use, and the lumber not all the time was planed, it was plated as you can see in the picture. If you made a blade, it would work great for it's intended purpose, if you had a need to put a tongue on a piece of 6/4 lumber. The groove could be easily plowed with another plane. I agree, looks like the threads that were missing got busted up from not being protected inside the plane body and likely would not impair the use of the plane.

These types of planes are not rare, and frankly, that one is in better condition than most. Used to live up your way north of Watertown. That can be a tough area to look for old tools.

Pete

You got me curious now. I am trying to find out some info on this guy and nothing is coming up under no. 81 plow plane. You can see that stamped in on the back in the picture with the price tag.

[Pete Taran]

It's not a plow plane which might be part of the problem. One of the great virtues of being a Mid West Tool Collector Member is, every year they send you a catalog reprint from some long out of business company or hardware store. Over 25 years, you get to have quite a collection. Since you are in NY, the first one I looked at was a reprint of the Auburn Tool Company from 1869. Attached you can see the No 81 match plane. Came with a double iron and was plated for $.25 more than the No 80. Note that they were sold as a set, the plane to cut the tongue and the groove. Surprised there is not a stamp on the toe which indicates it was made by Auburn. They used prison labor for much of their work force over the years.

Hope this helps...consider joining the MWTCA at www.mwtca.org (http://www.mwtca.org)! Best $25 you will ever spend if you enjoy old tools.

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