If You Haven't Noticed

[ken hatch]

I'm a fanboy of the Moravian style workbench with a Lake Erie Toolworks vise screw.


Several years ago I started searching for a useable portable workbench. With true retirement, none of this silly semi-retirement of the last twelve years where it has been short on the retirement and long on the semi. Over this period I've worked more than I ever did before but that is another story.

I knew I needed something to keep me from boredom while driving MsBubba around the country. I figured a portable workbench would be the real deal. Sounds easy, just make or buy something that is light, will fit into or break down easily to fit into the bins of the motorhome. Done deal, not so fast diesel breath.


Every design I came up with to build or buy all had a "yes but" factor. It seems with every workbench you could have some of the needed small footprint for transportation, light components, ease of assembly and disassembly, and a strong solid workbench. You could have two or three of the needed factors but never all four.


I toyed with the idea for several years and always ran into yes but until I stumbled across "Building the Portable Moravian Workbench" with Will Myers. I could see at first viewing that the Moravian bench would satisfy the first three criteria with no problem and should do an ok job with the fourth. What I didn't realize was just how good a job it would do with the fourth factor of being a strong, solid workbench.


After viewing Will's video I build my first Moravian bench out of Home Depot DF and took it on our annual PNW trip. It worked a treat so much so I decided to build another this time with a Poplar base and a Beech slab and to replace my sharpening bench with the proof of concept Moravian bench.


Pretty much the same story, the second bench worked even better than the first. It was such a nice to work on bench I moved an older Roubo bench out of the secondary bench position and replaced it with the Moravian. The little bench worked so well and was such a pleasure to use I found myself doing at least 70% of my work on it instead of my massive French/English primary bench.


Nothing left to do but build a third Moravian. This time forgetting portably but building a bench with the mass and size needed for a shop bench. I completed that bench yesterday and in the little I've worked on it it does not disappoint.


After working on and building several Moravian style benches as well as working on and building several Roubo style benches I can say with confidence the Moravian has every benefit of the French bench with non of the drawbacks. It uses less wood for the same sized bench, while lighter the finished bench is just as solid, the joinery is easier and more tolerant, and most important it can be broken down to move and/or modify as needed. The French bench once build is almost impossible to move and can be very difficult to modify.


As I said at the beginning I'm a fanboy. If you are thinking about building a bench, not just a portable bench but any bench, you should check out Will's video.


ken

[Bryan Cramer]

Would you be willing to share a link?

[ken hatch]

Would you be willing to share a link?

Bryan,

I wasn't sure if a link was in the terms of service but if you google "Building the Portable Moravian Workbench" with Will Myers. It will take you to the video.

ken

[Matthew Hartlin]

Big fan of Will Myer's work, particularity his blog posts that lived on WK Fine Tools and his increasing amount of articles on other resources. Some of this work has been moved to his new blog at https://eclecticmechanicals.com/ that also has more detail and a step by step build of the Moravian bench and a shout out to Ken's recent build. That said I did buy a copy of the video and have been working through it before I start my build.

I'll likely also add a drawer unit similar to the one seen here:
398041

[Bill Houghton]

I'm a touch surprised that someone went to the trouble of building a bench with slanted legs and then mounted the leg vise dead vertical. A slanted leg vise will grip vertical boards much better than a dead vertical one, because you can put the board where the line of pressure, running from the fulcrum at the bottom through the screw, will press directly on it.

[ken hatch]

I'm a touch surprised that someone went to the trouble of building a bench with slanted legs and then mounted the leg vise dead vertical. A slanted leg vise will grip vertical boards much better than a dead vertical one, because you can put the board where the line of pressure, running from the fulcrum at the bottom through the screw, will press directly on it.


Bill,

Take a look at how many holes there are in the leg. BTW, the wood screw holds as well as any vise I’ve used. After three benches and the same story I see no reason to change.

ken

[Christopher Charles]

Ken,

Very glad you've a new love in your life :)

I'm definitely intrigued by the design and agree about the quantity of wood--Roubos are a bit Monster Truck that way and purely suited to permanent or semi permanent set ups. That said, the BC split top design does break down into parts that are manageable by one person. Regardless, I'd also agree that a Moravian design would be an excellent first bench or portable bench.

Looking forward to seeing the next set of projects fly off the new bench in your full real retirement.

Best,
Chris

[James Pallas]

Ken, I like your new bigger bench, even withe the straight vise. However you may want to look up the albatross is there, I can see a slanted leg vise in your future. You will have to follow thru with the whole experiment, won’t you.
Jim

[Bryan Cramer]

Thank you! I'm in the planning processes for a new bench and appreciate all the info you are sharing.

[ken hatch]

Big fan of Will Myer's work, particularity his blog posts that lived on WK Fine Tools and his increasing amount of articles on other resources. Some of this work has been moved to his new blog at https://eclecticmechanicals.com/ that also has more detail and a step by step build of the Moravian bench and a shout out to Ken's recent build. That said I did buy a copy of the video and have been working through it before I start my build.

I'll likely also add a drawer unit similar to the one seen here:
398041

Matthew,

Buying the video is a smart move. Something to think about with the drawer unit is to keep it low enough to not interfere with using holdfasts in the area of the drawers.

ken

[ken hatch]

Ken,

Very glad you've a new love in your life :)

I'm definitely intrigued by the design and agree about the quantity of wood--Roubos are a bit Monster Truck that way and purely suited to permanent or semi permanent set ups. That said, the BC split top design does break down into parts that are manageable by one person. Regardless, I'd also agree that a Moravian design would be an excellent first bench or portable bench.

Looking forward to seeing the next set of projects fly off the new bench in your full real retirement.

Best,
Chris

Chris,

At my age it is hard to find lust objects, it might as well be a workbench:o.

Today was an example of the design's advantage over a Roubo. I can tell you with the two of 'em setting side by side the lighter Moravian gives up nothing in stability when compared to the Roubo but the advantage of being able to break the Moravian down is priceless. I needed to do some clean up, pencil marks, trim some joints and so on and I wanted to add ledgers to the long stretchers to hold a lower shelf. With the Moravian it was very easy to do all that, I just broke the bench down, put the parts I wanted to work on on one of the other benches and did the job. With the Roubo either job would be misery.

I'm not sure what will be next, I expect a couple of chairs and maybe a school desk for the grandpeanut.

ken

[ken hatch]

Thank you! I'm in the planning processes for a new bench and appreciate all the info you are sharing.

Bryan,

You are welcome, I hope it helps.

ken

[ken hatch]

Ken, I like your new bigger bench, even withe the straight vise. However you may want to look up the albatross is there, I can see a slanted leg vise in your future. You will have to follow thru with the whole experiment, won’t you.
Jim

Jim,

LOL, question, is it a albatross or a buzzard?

I'm going to let Will Myers handle that part :). He has build a bench with an angled leg vise.

Here is the problem, with a leg vise that has the screw and parallel guide going through the leg, you end up with too much of the meat of the leg missing. It can be rectified by making a wider leg which is what Will did. Not only that I'm not convinced an angled chop brings all that much to the table. I know in theory center of effort and all that rot but you also lose some of the ability to use the screw as a stop. Theory is nice but sometimes you give up a lot for little or no gain.

ken

[Kory Cassel]

398158
Hey Ken,

I have always been excited about the possibilities when I look at this book I have. This one's mounted on a straight leg, but I don't think you really need to mortise for the parallel guide to get it to work well? If you have this angle going on, the parallel guide is excused from stresses due to clamping to the side of the screw. I'm rooting for you to do an experiment at some point.:)

[ken hatch]

398158
Hey Ken,

I have always been excited about the possibilities when I look at this book I have. This one's mounted on a straight leg, but I don't think you really need to mortise for the parallel guide to get it to work well? If you have this angle going on, the parallel guide is excused from stresses due to clamping to the side of the screw. I'm rooting for you to do an experiment at some point.:)

Kory,

The vise needs a pivot point to apply maximum pressure. That pivot point can be a parallel guide and pin, some kind of ratcheting system like the one Will Myers built, or a crisscross, and I'm sure there are others. You are correct that is doesn't have to be in the leg but it does need to be in line with the center of effort. The claim from some quarters is an angled chop will provide stronger clamping force than a vertical chop and I'm sure that is the case because you can place the object directly in line with the center of effort. Here comes the yes but moment. If Patrick were still posting he would jump in now and post what the difference is and that I'm full of it but he's not so here goes. The parallel guide has two functions, the first is to give that needed pivot point and the second is (what is its name) keep the chop parallel so there is little force lost when clamping off the center of effort. A well made parallel guide will do that, a too lose parallel guide will not. I have no test or data to back me up but I do have experience with chops, screws, and parallel guides and I believe the clamping force difference between a well made vertical chop and an angled one is small and it only applies to one clamping situation, clamping a long vertical piece and in doing so takes away an important feature, using the screw as a "stop". Bottom line I see little advantage in an angled chop and some disadvantages including a more difficult installation and maybe a weaker base.

ken

[ken hatch]

398158
Hey Ken,

I have always been excited about the possibilities when I look at this book I have. This one's mounted on a straight leg, but I don't think you really need to mortise for the parallel guide to get it to work well? If you have this angle going on, the parallel guide is excused from stresses due to clamping to the side of the screw. I'm rooting for you to do an experiment at some point.:)

Kory,

Just another observation, If that illustration is the author's understanding of how a leg vise works I would dismiss anything he/she said. With the screw placed as illustrated the vise would have little clamping power if it were vertical or angled.:D

ken

[Alexander Zagubny]

Kory,

Just another observation, If that illustration is the author's understanding of how a leg vise works I would dismiss anything he/she said. With the screw placed as illustrated the vise would have little clamping power if it were vertical or angled.:D

ken

Ken,

Could you please explain why? I see that it will have little capacity but clamping force should be tremendous since shoulder ratio is so significant.


BTW, it just struck me that any kind of parallel guide limits chop movement not only on the vertical axis but also right-to-left. Thanks Ken! Like with peg board side of the rail mortise and sides of the pin/peg will limit side-to-side racking while clamping vertical board. With criss-cross there are axles... So I finally realized why racking is not a big deal for clamping vertical boards.

Gonna try sloped one anyway, I just fascinated with mechanics of clamping with angled vise.

[Kory Cassel]

Kory,

Just another observation, If that illustration is the author's understanding of how a leg vise works I would dismiss anything he/she said. With the screw placed as illustrated the vise would have little clamping power if it were vertical or angled.:D

ken
I'm pretty sure that is just one of his hand drawn doodles. There are a lot of photos of actual leg vises in the book. It's much more of a historical bench tour than Chris Schwarz's books. The Workbench Book by Scott Landis, Taunton Press 1987. Picked it up at a local library book sale a few years back. Has good drawings of Frank Klaus's bench.

[ken hatch]

Ken,

Could you please explain why? I see that it will have little capacity but clamping force should be tremendous since shoulder ratio is so significant.


BTW, it just struck me that any kind of parallel guide limits chop movement not only on the vertical axis but also right-to-left. Thanks Ken! Like with peg board side of the rail mortise and sides of the pin/peg will limit side-to-side racking while clamping vertical board. With criss-cross there are axles... So I finally realized why racking is not a big deal for clamping vertical boards.

Gonna try sloped one anyway, I just fascinated with mechanics of clamping with angled vise.

Alexander,

I believe it was Archimedes that said something to the order of give me a place to stand and a lever and I can move the world. With the screw at the clamping surface there is little lever.

ken

[ken hatch]

I'm pretty sure that is just one of his hand drawn doodles. There are a lot of photos of actual leg vises in the book. It's much more of a historical bench tour than Chris Schwarz's books. The Workbench Book by Scott Landis, Taunton Press 1987. Picked it up at a local library book sale a few years back. Has good drawings of Frank Klaus's bench.

Kory,

Sounds possible. I must admit I haven't read the book nor am I familiar with Scott Landis although IIRC I've seen it on the woodstore's bookshelf.

ken

[Eric Rathhaus]

Having just read Chris Schwarz's discussion of the leg vice on a Roubo bench in the Roubo book, it seems even the parallel guide isn't a must have, especially if you make the chop for the leg vise longer.

Eric

[ken hatch]

Having just read Chris Schwarz's discussion of the leg vice on a Roubo bench in the Roubo book, it seems even the parallel guide isn't a must have, especially if you make the chop for the leg vise longer.

Eric

Eric,

I'd have to read what he is saying. It could be, I'd hate to go against C.S. with reference to the historical record unless I was sure of my facts. But I have a hard time figuring out how it would work.

ken

[Stew Denton]

Ken,

I would never have guessed that you were a fan of the Moravian design, well....I wouldn't have if you hadn't mentioned it so often (just kidding.)

However, I have very much appreciated the posts on it, and also your evaluation of the Moravian vs Roubo. My first bench will be fairly light duty. However it will be my only real bench until I build my first heavy duty bench, and that will almost certainly be a Moravian. The light duty bench will primarily use lumber I already have, a vise I already have (it was my dad's vise), and so the price will be right, and it will be my main and only real bench for a while. It will be eventually used for a mobile vise for primarily finish carpentry and as an assembly table.

That said, the first heavy duty bench will almost certainly be a Moravian, and will also take over as a travel bench for more heavy duty carpentry. It will be about the size of the one you first built to travel with you, about 6' long so it can travel in the back of a short bed truck, or inside our van or my Jimmy.

At any rate, thank you very much for the interesting and very informative posts on building the bench, and your comments on the plus/minus points of the bench versus the Roubo were very instructive. Those comments were the last nail in making me think the Moravian is the way to go for the first (and maybe final if it will do everything I need) heavy duty bench.

Thanks and regards,

Stew

[ken hatch]

Ken,

I would never have guessed that you were a fan of the Moravian design, well....I wouldn't have if you hadn't mentioned it so often (just kidding.)

However, I have very much appreciated the posts on it, and also your evaluation of the Moravian vs Roubo. My first bench will be fairly light duty. However it will be my only real bench until I build my first heavy duty bench, and that will almost certainly be a Moravian. The light duty bench will primarily use lumber I already have, a vise I already have (it was my dad's vise), and so the price will be right, and it will be my main and only real bench for a while. It will be eventually used for a mobile vise for primarily finish carpentry and as an assembly table.

That said, the first heavy duty bench will almost certainly be a Moravian, and will also take over as a travel bench for more heavy duty carpentry. It will be about the size of the one you first built to travel with you, about 6' long so it can travel in the back of a short bed truck, or inside our van or my Jimmy.

At any rate, thank you very much for the interesting and very informative posts on building the bench, and your comments on the plus/minus points of the bench versus the Roubo were very instructive. Those comments were the last nail in making me think the Moravian is the way to go for the first (and maybe final if it will do everything I need) heavy duty bench.

Thanks and regards,

Stew

Stew,

As I have posted, before deciding to build a large version of the bench I worked on the small portable version alongside the big French/English bench. I found for most tasks I enjoyed working on the small bench more that the large one. The only tasks it fell short were sawing across the bench and I think a good part of that was because I made the bench narrow to fit into the side bins of the motorhome. A wider version of the small bench or a sand bag would likely cure that shortcoming.

Good luck when you decide to build,

ken

[Stew Denton]

Ken,

Your comment on the width is duly noted. For moving around stuff for carpentry you want things reasonable to move around even if you want it reasonably stout if possible, but, I am not a real big guy and not nearly as young as I used to be so.....it's always a compromise on size, and strength and weight, versus portability.

On the other hand I want the bench to be as generally useful as possible, so I may make the first Moravian up to 2' wide, maybe a bit less, I will have to figure up what it will weigh. Part of the time you just need a set up to clamp a miter box to for carpentry. Moving around planks and multiple sawhorses is a pain, and the flexibility of that kind of set up is limited without lots of cobbling up stuff to hold things....but come to think of it, that is what I still do for almost any project I work on.

Stew