Oneway Live Center assistance

[Peter Blair]

Does anyone know what the inside taper of the Oneway Live Center is? I've tried measuring the center pin but can only guess at the angle I would have to use to make a replacement. I often like a smaller longer cup center to get a little further away from the body of the Live Center.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

You can try drilling a 3/4" hole in a small piece of piece of hardwood thats a tad bit deeper than your center's cup center. Turn that around place it over the cup, and turn that down. Obviously the piece has to be as long as you want you standoff to be.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Is this what you are looking for ?? 397799 , I believe it is the standard MT taper for it’s size that is used, but Oneway has a 1-800 number, so you could give them a call and ask.

[John K Jordan]

Does anyone know what the inside taper of the Oneway Live Center is? I've tried measuring the center pin but can only guess at the angle I would have to use to make a replacement. I often like a smaller longer cup center to get a little further away from the body of the Live Center.

Someone told me recently it was a #0 Morse Taper. I did not measure it myself. From a table:
Taper/Foot .6246
Taper/Inch .0521
Angle From Center 1.4908

I used to make adapters for the Oneway, threading with 3/4"x10 or simply drilling a hole in a block. I haven't made one since I discovered the Nova live center, my new favorite as an incredibly versatile live center (I bought two!)

397853

I realize you probably want to use what you have, but if you ever need another live center you might consider this one.

It has a #2 morse taper socket and a number of #2MT attachments. I turn special attachments from wood as needed, including things like small tenons to support spindles with holes drilled in the end. I also sometimes like to get the live center further away from the work just as you mentioned to give me some working space, so I made a wooden piece about 4" long with a short morse taper on one end. (It's just flat on the end, not a cup center.)

JKJ

[JohnC Lucas]

Write Mike Hunter. He is selling an extended version of the Oneway live center point. It's very handy. Don't know if it's on his website yet but you can find contact info here. http://huntertoolsystems.com/

[Peter Blair]

I'm sure it is standard But there are lots of standard Mts, aren't their or do they all have the same angle only larger or smaller?
I could try to call Oneway but have emailed them without response.

[Peter Blair]

Thanks John all of us here can always count on your expertise to help when we have questions. I will for sure keep this in mind but my spending days are about done. This living on a fixed income can suck! this is why I try to make as much as I can as far as tools go in my shop.

[Peter Blair]

Hey John. I have a small metal lathe and want to make my own extended version. At present I have made a few but I they don't seem to fit as nicely as I would like into the Oneway. Thanks for the suggestion.

[John McCaskill]

Cindy Drozda sells a set of various shape points for the Oneway live center.
http://www.cindydrozda.com/html/CenterPoints.html

[Peter Christensen]

If it were me I would put the live centre in the headstock (use adapter sleeves if needed) and clamp a finger indicator in the tool rest. Run the tip back and forth with the compound, on the inside of the taper, on the surface farthest away from you. Adjust the angle until the dial reads zero across the taper. Now set up the tip you want to make and cut the taper. Make sense?

[Peter Blair]

Thanks Peter. The piece I need to know the taper on is tapered and as such I don't know how to hold it in the chuck to be able to read it? And thanks again to all who have made suggestions BUT I may not have made my self clear. I don't want to purchase any from any supplier I am interested in the MT angle to allow me to make my own. I am now thinking that all MT have the same angle just smaller diameters and if this is the case I can for sure place a different one in my metal lathe chuck and measure the angle. I am not a machinist and as a result am trying to learn as I go. I do have a chart for MT angles but remain a little confused as you can tell.

[Peter Christensen]

Peter. Am I talking to myself? :)

What I am trying to get you to do is set your compound on the carriage to the same angle as the socket in the live centre. You don't need to know the actual angle. Once you set the compound you can chuck up a rod and cut it and it will match the centre. So if you make say 3 cup tips about 3" long and set them aside, then set the compound (the one on the carriage that you can angle). Now you can chuck up the partially made cup tips with the cup inside the headstock, put a cutter in the toolholder and cut the taper with the compound only. As long as you leave a little bit of the part round it can be gripped with the jaws of your chuck. You can make some just a little longer than the stock ones or as long as you want. Making several long ones while set up gives you some to trim down in the future without having to do the setup again.

If you have the angle how are you going to set the compound to make the cut? Or does the lathe have a taper cutting attachment? The markings on the compound are rough at best, and a protractor isn't good enough and I doubt you have a sine bar and the accompanying gauge blocks so matching the lathe to your part is the simplest means. Even with my suggestion you may have to make some fine adjustments to get a perfect fit but you will be close enough to do it with fine paper.

[John K Jordan]

Thanks Peter. The piece I need to know the taper on is tapered and as such I don't know how to hold it in the chuck to be able to read it? And thanks again to all who have made suggestions BUT I may not have made my self clear. I don't want to purchase any from any supplier I am interested in the MT angle to allow me to make my own. I am now thinking that all MT have the same angle just smaller diameters and if this is the case I can for sure place a different one in my metal lathe chuck and measure the angle. I am not a machinist and as a result am trying to learn as I go. I do have a chart for MT angles but remain a little confused as you can tell.

I think he meant measuring the taper inside the socket of the live center, perhaps using a dial test indicator held rigidly, and advance the tailstock quill a known amount, then calculate the angle.

For some reason the different Morse tapers are all different angles.

There are tables:
https://littlemachineshop.com/reference/tapers.php
http://www.drill-hq.com/2012/04/morse-taper-dimensions-chart/
https://www.shars.com/specification-reference/morse-taper-specification

JKJ

[Peter Christensen]

I think he meant measuring the taper inside the socket of the live center, perhaps using a dial test indicator held rigidly, and advance the tailstock quill a known amount, then calculate the angle.

For some reason the different Morse tapers are all different angles.

There are tables:
https://littlemachineshop.com/reference/tapers.php
http://www.drill-hq.com/2012/04/morse-taper-dimensions-chart/
https://www.shars.com/specification-reference/morse-taper-specification

JKJ

John that isn't what I meant. I want him to ignore any tables and measurements because he won't be able to set the lathe to make a cut since I doubt he has the tools with the required resolution to do so. By taking a finger type dial indicator and clamping it in the tool post you can run it inside the taper, adjusting the compound angle, until the needle doesn't move. Now your compound is at the same angle as the inside taper away from you as you stand at the lathe. When you put the rod in the lathe chuck and cut the outside nearest you in the normal matter, you match the taper exactly. The angle can be 1 degree, 25 degrees, or 2.06739 degrees. It doesn't mater. You are just matching it to the existing part it will fit. He can shave a little off at a time until the tailstock centre fits the right amount over the little centre he is making.

[John K Jordan]

I've never heard of a "finger type dial indicator" but from a google search it looks like a "dial test indicator". And it wasn't clear that you were talking about measuring it on the metal lathe to set the compound. Makes good sense.


John that isn't what I meant. I want him to ignore any tables and measurements because he won't be able to set the lathe to make a cut since I doubt he has the tools with the required resolution to do so. By taking a finger type dial indicator and clamping it in the tool post you can run it inside the taper, adjusting the compound angle, until the needle doesn't move. Now your compound is at the same angle as the inside taper away from you as you stand at the lathe. When you put the rod in the lathe chuck and cut the outside nearest you in the normal matter, you match the taper exactly. The angle can be 1 degree, 25 degrees, or 2.06739 degrees. It doesn't mater. You are just matching it to the existing part it will fit. He can shave a little off at a time until the tailstock centre fits the right amount over the little centre he is making.

[Peter Blair]

Peter I apologize if I made you feel as if you were talking to yourself. I am paying close attention BUT am not too familiar with my small metal lathe and will print your note, take it to the lathe and try my best to use what you suggest. Thanks for the information about the inability of my equipment to be able to create the angle and your suggestion as to how I might do it by using the pin I already have. Again I would like to reinforce the appreciation I have to all who have answered me an so freely given of their time and knowledge.

[Peter Christensen]

The talking to myself remark is because we have the same name.

Yup put the Oneway live centre into your headstock and align to the socket. Pull it out and then turn the part. Have fun.

[Ken Burner]

Lots of YouTube videos on turning or matching a Morse taper. Here’s one that uses the male pin to set the compound — no measuring or indicating at all: https://youtu.be/1BtAgV-ktNY.

Ken

[John K Jordan]

The talking to myself remark is because we have the same name.


Ha!

It gets more interesting if you have the same first AND last name as a well-known woodturner, especially if you both live in the same state and are the same age. I always use my middle initial and people still us mixed up confused. One guy made and sent me tools, some famous turners sent me facebook friend requests, so far no one has sent me any of his money. It does makes for some fun intros at demos.

397939

I tell him I'm the better-looking one. :)

JKJ

[Peter Blair]

Pretty funny John. I too was confused the first while . . .

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I'm sure it is standard But there are lots of standard Mts, aren't their or do they all have the same angle only larger or smaller?
I could try to call Oneway but have emailed them without response.

The MT or Morse Taper has several sizes and these sizes do not all have the same angle, that is why I said “standard taper for it’s size”, and yes there are other tapers, like Jacobs Taper and Jarno, Brown and Sharpe, and others, but they are not MT (Morse Tapers).

So you can find the tapers for the MT0 to MT7 if you want those, here is a table for them.

397985

[Brice Rogers]

I've turned a handful of Morse tapers. If one pays attention, they aren't all that hard to do. While Peter C's comments are good ones, I suspect that the OP may not have a dial indicator or be that familiar with his metal lathe. But having a D.I. really helps and makes the job a lot easier.

If I only had a caliper (and of course, a metal lathe, cutter, etc.), I would find a metal rod (a bit larger than the big end of the taper) and mark the length of the taper on the metal rod. I've either use a sharpie or a scribe. Then I would set the compound to as close as I could get to angle. Then I'd make a test cut and measure the two ends. I wouldn't worry about the actual diameter yet but would be interested in the difference from the big end to the little end. Then I'd make a super minor adjustment of the compound. I do that by slightly loosening the compound and then tapping the compound with something (screw driver handle, etc.). Then make another cut, recheck, re-tap, etc. Wash rinse repeat...

Ultimately to check the fit of the MT into the live center, you would mark up the MT with a magic marker, stick it in and twist it. (But leave it in the metal lathe chuck). Then pull the live center off and check to see where the coloring is removed. If it is at one end only, then you would want to remove a little more material. Perhaps when you get it close enough, you may want to switch to a file.

Lastly, I suspect that this application is pretty forgiving and doesn't have to be super accurate. In fact, you could probably chuck up a piece of aluminum on your wood lathe, make the MT live center pin using regular wood turning tools and just turn it by eye until it is close and then use the magic marker technique.

Or....just buy a new tip for the live center.

[John K Jordan]

Ultimately to check the fit of the MT into the live center, you would mark up the MT with a magic marker, stick it in and twist it. (But leave it in the metal lathe chuck). Then pull the live center off and check to see where the coloring is removed. If it is at one end only, then you would want to remove a little more material. Perhaps when you get it close enough, you may want to switch to a file.

When I turn Morse tapers on the wood lathe I like to first approximate the taper then relieve the center (so it can't possibly be high in the middle) leaving two rings to seat. These two bands make it easier to fine tune to fit. For short tapers I made a gauge but also use a couple of calipers preset for high and low diameters a set distance apart. For short tapers in wood the distance is 1/2" since that's the width of my parting tool.

398061

I've turned longer tapers from aluminum on the wood lathe the same way, easy with standard woodturning tools. I always make #2MT but I can't imagine smaller tapers being harder. I think I'll try one from lignum vitae to fit the Oneway live center.

JKJ

[Peter Blair]

Please let me know how you make out John. I have made several. They work but I made them by eye and trial and error. I guess if I were to use blueing and insert I could fine tune a lot easier.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

I bought an old Delta Rockwell floor model lathe that came with an unmarked live center. The pieces that fit into it are a MT1 taper. I can remove the center piece and just use it for a cup center, or turn a small MT1 taper on the end of the stock to seat in the center hole.

[John K Jordan]

Please let me know how you make out John. I have made several. They work but I made them by eye and trial and error. I guess if I were to use blueing and insert I could fine tune a lot easier.

Peter,

I made a couple today from Lignum Vitae. I decided to post what I did in a new thread in case someone not following this thread wanted to read it.
Here's the link: Supporting things with a live center (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?269961-Supporting-things-with-a-live-center&p=2873583#post2873583)

It took longer to shoot the and process the photos than it did to make the tapers!

I don't think you need bluing with wood - I just press the socket onto the mostly-shaped taper while it is spinning. The burnished marks show the high spots exactly as the Dykem would on metal.

Another thing that helps is after sizing two marks on the blank, I peel down to the marks with a straight-edge skew chisel. This only takes a few seconds and results in a cone with perfectly straight sides, usually a good starting point for fine tuning.

I also included a few other ways I use a live center to hold things. Let me know what you think!

I might try one from aluminum by hand on the wood lathe but it probably won't be this month. I'd certainly use bluing on it. I'd probably get more use out of one with a #2MT to fit the Nova live center but the methods would be the same.

JKJ

[Jack Tyree]

I don't remember where I got it but there are pen mandrel 60 degree points available that work fine in Oneway live centers that will get you a little further away. They are very inexpensive. If you need to get further than that, Oneway sells a reverse adapter for their live centers so you can thread your chuck on the live centers. Get one of those and use it to mount a collet chuck and you can make points out of any rod material & length you want.

[John K Jordan]

I don't remember where I got it but there are pen mandrel 60 degree points available that work fine in Oneway live centers that will get you a little further away. ...

Is this the one?
https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/images/prod/400/one_mul_tip_rev_cen-2.jpg

Some sources:
https://www.amazon.com/Oneway-3673-Turning-Point-Center/dp/B007SOQHM6
https://oneway.ca/Pen%20Turning%20Point
https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/108/2785/Oneway-Multi-Tip-Revolving-Center-Pen-Turning-Point
https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/oneway-pen-turning-point-live-center.aspx
https://www.hartvilletool.com/product/1202/centers
http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=packard&Product_Code=112622PN&Category_Code=lathes-acc-cent-revtail-olc