aI need heat in a 1 car garage/workshop

[skip jack]

Firt timer here,
Hi all.

Anyway, I need advise for a heating system to control the climate in my detached 1 car garage/workshop.It needs to be no less than 55 degrees at night and 70 during the day/work time.
I live in the northeast and winter is coming fast.I just can't go another winter with my portable kerosene tube heater (60,000 BTU). The fumes give me a headach and it's on or it's off no in between and no night time heat. It also creates a lot of condensation when I do turn on the heat which is not a good thing for my tools or machinery.

I am renovating the garage by insulating the walls and ceiling,I will be sheet rocking the entire interior and painting the walls/ceiling and floor.I installed an R-8 rated insulated garage door that I bought at Lowes.I am finally after 8 years going to make it the way it should have been when I first moved in (I am a procrastenator).

So anyway,it's a cinder block garage with a wood (stick built)peak roof. I have electric (110) soon to be 220/50 amp sub panel.
I have been searching the web and can't really make up my mind.

My house is oil heat and if there is an oil heater that doesn't cost $1,500-$2,000 bucks then that would probably work out.When I get oil for the house I can have the garage tank filled too.

I will be installing an ehaust fan for fumes and dust so I would need a system that could recoup the heat fairly quick.

I am also installing a vacum system for dust control also,but there will be times when I am spraying that I would need to exhaust the fumes quickly.

Thanks in advance for the help.

[Jim Knauss]

Wish I could help you with your heat problem, but thats just one more thing I no nothin' about. But welcome to the Creek and I'm sure someone here can give you some advice.
Jim Knauss

[jerry cousins]

hello skip jack

i went through the same kind of remodel a few years back - after i added on to my 2 car garage - which was always a workshop. check into gas fed (mine is propane), ceiling mounted heaters - either the modine or reznor. a very low profile - hangs from the rafters - uses it's own outside air - i think the unit cost about $500. and don't know if it comes as an oil burning unit.

jerry

[Rob Russell]

"Skip Jack",

Welcome to SMC. FYI, one of the terms of service when signing up for SMC is to use a real first and last name. Perhaps "skip jack" is your real name (I have an Uncle Skip), but it does sound a little contrived. If it's not your real name, send an email to the webmasters (mailto:webmaster@sawmillcreek.org) and they'll fix your profile.

On to your question ... The Modine type, fan-forced radiators would do what you want. They are available as oil-burning. You'd need to get one with an externally vented air feed and exhaust - one of those double layered pipes.

Another option if you can spare a couple inches of height in your shop is to put down radiant heat with a poured gypcrete floor over the tubing or a plywood floor over 2x4 sleepers laid flat. You'd get an oil-fired hot water heater (same thing with external air supply and exhaust venting), fill the thing with a glycol based freeze-proof liquid and you'd be all set. If your intent is to keep the shop heated all the time, radiant is a good way to go. Very comfortable and efficient.

Rob

[Bob Johnson2]

There have been a couple threads on the subject recently, maybe not a garage but the same in principle. It'd be worth a search if you haven't already done so.
Being a NewEnglander I'd check out a wood burner of some sort if you want to go the fire wood route. The people I know with them like the quick, toasty, cheap heat they get.
If your like me and have gotten tired of lugging logs (not to mention a chimney fire or 2) the gas ceiling heaters are worth a look, but it doesn't sound like you have gas and propane is too darn $$$. I do however have an almost new gas stove that I won't use anymore, eats a 100 gallon tank in less then 2 weeks. Do you have headroom for the ceiling corner mounts?
I went with electric baseboard, costs more then the rest to run but you can't get much simpler. Of course there is almost no install costs as they are cheap if you diy. 55 at night would be a problem, 70 during the day would sure be nice, I don't even let the house get that warm.
The flames from a stove may be of concern to you as they are to some folks. It'd be my first choice.

[Hunter Wallace]

Call a local heating guy & find out if he has any used mobile home
furnaces. I got a Miller furnace that was 15 years old, oil fired, and
the guy charged me $250 for it. It's super easy to put in...oil line,
20A electric line & thermostat control wire. I put it up on a metal base
cuz the air blows down toward the floor. Good luck...

p.s. Going the wood way could be a little risky...insurance companies
have not paid out to woodworkers whose shops burn down due to the
"open" flame in dusty environs...

[Frank Hagan]

hello skip jack

i went through the same kind of remodel a few years back - after i added on to my 2 car garage - which was always a workshop. check into gas fed (mine is propane), ceiling mounted heaters - either the modine or reznor. a very low profile - hangs from the rafters - uses it's own outside air - i think the unit cost about $500. and don't know if it comes as an oil burning unit.

jerry

I'll second this suggestion. I'm a service manager for a manufacturer of boilers and water heaters, and for a shop, the sealed combustion or direct vent appliances are the best thing going in gas or oil fired appliances. It may be hard to find in an oil fired version though (we have one, but its too big and expensive for your application). There are plenty of them for LP gas and Natural gas; with fuel oil the way it is, LP might not be too much more expensive.

There is a tax credit for very efficient appliances purchased in 2006, but I don't know if they have to be for your primary residence. Still, that may reduce the cost by a $150 or so.

With a sealed combustion unit, you duct outside air directly to them, and vent the flue gasses out, so you don't have to worry about providing enough combustion air for the heater (which means an opening directly to the outside letting in a lot of cold air to the entire space) or suffering from CO poisoning if the air vent gets blocked. And you don't have to worry about wood dust fouling the ignitor or combustion chamber.

The other safe alternative is electric heat, with sealed elements heating oil or water in a radiator type of set up. No exposed elements to present a fire hazard, no need for combustion air, but a much higher electric bill.

There are quite a few threads on here about chewed up fingers on routers and other spinning metal tools. But the most dangerous thing you will install in your shop could be the gas or oil fired heater. Every year, there are about 250 deaths attributed to CO poisoning from heating systems, most of them installed incorrectly. Whatever you do, do this one right.

[Edited to correct the number of deaths each year ... I had 60 in there, and its really about 250 each year]

[Bill Lewis]

I'll second this suggestion. I'm a service manager for a manufacturer of boilers and water heaters, and for a shop, the sealed combustion or direct vent appliances are the best thing going in gas or oil fired appliances. It may be hard to find in an oil fired version though (we have one, but its too big and expensive for your application). There are plenty of them for LP gas and Natural gas; with fuel oil the way it is, LP might not be too much more expensive.

This is very good advise. Don't limit yourself to using heating oil just because you already have it in your house. You already indicated you would have to have a second storage tank for fuel. So I would strongly recomend an LP based system.
Secondly, Based on your shop use as you described it, you really need to use a direct vent type of appliance. An exhaust fan can suck poisonous (CO) flue gases back down the stack or could at least mess up your heater operation. Like Frank said, these are hard to find in oil burner types, they lend themselves better as gas fired units.

[skip jack]

I was interested in the oil fired one mainly for convience and economy as far as operation.
If I was to use the LP type I would probably have to run it with 2/100 lb tanks together because LP delivered from what I was told is close to $5.00 lb/gal??? Don't remember how they measure it????
At least that's what I was told,I'm not really sure what the price delivered is because I didn't check yet for myself.

Does anyone know off hand if one of those electric 220v forced hot air hang from the ceiling type units are extremely expensive to operate?
I checked Northern Tool and they only get around $300 which isn't that bad of a price as long as I can control it with a thermostat.

I guess that would be the easiest and quickest way to go,even if it was a little more to operate,I guess wouldn't be that bad.
But if your talking $100-200 more a month to operate it the way I need it, then I would want to go another route.




PS. I will contact the webmaster to staighten out my name,sorry for that, my mistake.

[Matt Meiser]

I have one of the Hot Dawg style heaters running on propane. Mine is 75000 BTU, much bigger than you need and I burned about 150 gallons of propane last winter. The 45000 BTU unit should be fine for you.

I'd call a propane company about a 125 gallon tank. My boss installed a ventless heater in his pole barn and even though he has natural gas in the house, he had one of the 125 gallon tanks put in. $5/gallon sounds really high. I think we pre-bought our propane for this year at about $1.50/gal.

[Brad Olson]

I have an insulated attached 2-car garage workshop and use a Dimplex Model DGWH4031 Garage/Workshop Electric Heater. It is about $190 and works fantastic. It is an electric heater with a fan to circulate the air.

To go from 40 degrees to 65 it takes about 10 minutes.

I keep my shop at 55 degrees all the time and it costs about $10/month to operate in the winter.

[skip jack]

I have an insulated attached 2-car garage workshop and use a Dimplex Model DGWH4031 Garage/Workshop Electric Heater. It is about $190 and works fantastic. It is an electric heater with a fan to circulate the air.

To go from 40 degrees to 65 it takes about 10 minutes.

I keep my shop at 55 degrees all the time and it costs about $10/month to operate in the winter.













It only costs $10 a month to operate?
That's not bad at all.
When you say all the time,do you mean even at night?

[Bob Johnson2]

$5 is about right if your out of the city, seems to run more $ if your not close to the source, a guy at work was crying about $4 this summer. Something I heard this summer was that the gas is considerably cheaper (like half) if you buy the tank as opposed to renting it. I didn't know you could buy them, of course the tanks cost a good deal.

[Keith Hooks]

Good timing. There's an article in the latest issue of FWW about different heating options.

Personally, I would go with a closed combustion system as some others have mentioned in this thread. They're a lot safer, especially for a shop.

[Frank Hagan]

There's a pretty good comparative energy cost chart in this PDF document:

http://www.minnkota.com/Documents/Electric%20Heating%20Today.pdf

If that link doesn't work, those "%20" characters are spaces in the URL.

If your electric rate is 6.5 cents per KWH, then with a higher efficiency furnace, fuel oil would have to cost about $2.13 to be equal cost (if fuel oil is more, then fuel oil will cost more to get the same amount of heat in the room). LP would have to cost $1.57 a gallon and natural gas 17.14 per MCF. The chart is put out by an electric utility, so you might have to take it with a grain of salt!

The formula for calculating the difference is:

(Electric Rate in KWH) x (Efficiency of Gas Furnace) x (BTU/hr content of Alternate Fuel) / 341,300 = Fuel Price Comparable with Electric Rate

BTU content of common fuels (this can vary slightly):
LP - 91,600 BTU per gal
#2 Fuel Oil - 140,000 BTU per gal
Natural Gas - 1,000,000 BTU per MCF

When you consider the lower installed cost of an electric heater, you may be money ahead even if you pay more in your monthly bill. And it certainly is much easier to install.

[Brad Olson]

It only costs $10 a month to operate?
That's not bad at all.
When you say all the time,do you mean even at night?

Yes, my shop is insulated well enough that the heater only has to turn on for a few minutes every hour to maintain the termperature. It also helps that the house leaks a bit of heat into the shop as well. I keep my heater on 24/7 since I have things like glue, finished and waterstones in my shop. If I go on vacation, I turn of the heater and drag the temp sensetive stuff inside.

I have a good friend with the same heater in an detached 1 car garage. He has the same results, about $5-10 per month, but his shop is better insulated than mine. Mine is insulated to R-19 in the attic and walls and his is insulated to R-39 in the ceiling, R-19 in the walls and he has a utility blanket covering his overhead door. My overhead door contributes the most to heat lost especially when windy, even though I did seal around it with weatherstripping.

[Brad Olson]

When you consider the lower installed cost of an electric heater, you may be money ahead even if you pay more in your monthly bill. And it certainly is much easier to install.

Tha was my rationale. Took me 20 minutes to run a 220V circuit to the ceiling for the heater and I bought the heater used for $100 from this forum.

I don't have nat gas and to get free propane tank rental I had to buy a monster tank (several hundred $$)

Since I only have to heat the shop intensely for 3-4 months a year that was good enough. The rest of the time, the house keeps the shop warm enough and I obviously don't heat in the summer.

Also the fan to circulate the air was a must.