Looking for recommendations for, joiner,planer, bandsaw

[Jason Ramey]

Hello all,
I am in the market for an 18 inch bandsaw, 15or20 inch planer, and 12 inch joiner. My inclination is to go with all Powermatic as this is what I am accustomed to using in the shops I’ve managed.However.... I’m looking for recommendations for alternatives to Powermatic as I can use the remaining money elsewhere in the shop. I have done much research on Grizzly and currently have a 14 inch extreme that has been problem free for two years but if others can recommend alternatives that would be great. All tools must be 3 phase.

Side note: also getting a drill press and lathe but I’m pretty sure I’m going with the Powermatic drill press and the 3520 lathe but not worried about the other tools matching.

[Van Huskey]

. All tools must be 3 phase.



Is this accurate? If so your choices will be extremely limited with smaller "hobby" sized machines.

[David Zaret]

how about a big combo jointer/planer?

[Jason Ramey]

Hello Van. Good question. Right now the building folks say we only have 208 service which I think can only handle 3 phase. There is the possibility of upgrading the entire panel ( which I am trying to avoid unless we can get it done at a reasonable price). I am meeting with them on Tuesday to see what they say the cost may be, so we may be able to go somethin* other than 3 phase.

[Van Huskey]

Hello Van. Good question. Right now the building folks say we only have 208 service which I think can only handle 3 phase. There is the possibility of upgrading the entire panel ( which I am trying to avoid unless we can get it done at a reasonable price). I am meeting with them on Tuesday to see what they say the cost may be, so we may be able to go somethin* other than 3 phase.

I think you need t work that out before bothering with recommendations for machines. I don't think anyone makes a 15" 3ph planer. The number of 17-19" bandsaws is pretty limited. The PM2800 and most (all) woodworking drill presses are single phase as is the 3520 if I am not mistaken.

Edit: budgets for the machines will really be helpful too.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, if you have 3 phase 208V, you also have single phase 208V, and 120V single phase.

If you want 3 phase machines however any of the Euro makers would be please to sell you a 16 or 20 inch 3 phase jointer planer

Same for the band saw................Look at Felder and Mini-Max...............Regards, Rod.

[Martin Wasner]

Jointer- Martin
Planer- Martin
Bandsaw-Northfield

You could pull that off new for about $80k.



budgets for the machines will really be helpful too.

This is the first piece of information that needs to be exposed.

The second thing is use. The needs of the hobbyist are far different than somebody paying the mortgage with their tools.

Me personally, I won't spend money on anything powermatic, it's far too expensive.

[Art Mann]

Your assumption that all tools must be 3-phase isn't correct, as Rod mentioned. If you are going to be making equipment purchases of that magnitude, you need to do some more research on power applications first.

[Van Huskey]

I didn't recognize the OPs name at first but he has a thread moved to the workshop forum on his power which I haven't followed since it was moved. He may indeed only have 3ph outlets at this time but all this hinges on what he can and is willing to do with his power situation. There is no point going through the process of recommending machines based on a 3ph limitation until the power situation is sorted.

Get the power situation figured out then bump the thread with budgets for the machines.

[David Kumm]

If you have three phase available, you can buy really good used stuff for less than hobby level PM. Just takes a little homework. Dave

[Jason Ramey]

Hello all. I will get the electrical issues sorted with them and then report back.

[Jason Ramey]

Hello all.
Found out today that our entire panel will be upgraded which means there will be no limitations on machines. Below are the machines I’m looking to buy and approximate budget for each. These tools will be used in a shop setting with moderate and sometimes heave use. We are a small shop so I’m also open to a combo machine for the jointer and planer as someone mentioned that we should take a look at these as an option. I am certainly willing to go much lower on any of the above as the money can be spent elsewhere .
Any suggestions are appreciated

Drill press 1650.00 leaning towards the Powermatic but would consider others
18 inch bandsaw 6000.00
20 inch planer. 5300.00
12 inch jointer 6500-7200
Combo disc/belt sander 1700.00
Lathe 5500, leaning towards the Powermatic 3520b
Drum Sander 3000.00 , currently have the Supermax 19/38 and love it but have looked at the Powermatic and not sure if it’s worth the price difference over the Supermax.
Router Table 1800.00
Spindle sander 1500.00

[Van Huskey]

First, especially given your access to 3ph power you are going to get a lot of buy used, which I agree with, your budget allows for some really nice used machines. I will however give you some suggestions of what I would buy new in the budget ranges.

DP Nova Voyager
Bandsaw SCM/Formula S500P (MM20) and pick up a used 14" saw as well
For the jointer and planer I would actually get a Felder AD941 vs Asian separates
I wouldn't buy a combo sander I would use that money and the spindle sander money to get an oscillating edge sander probably a Vega which allows you to do large curved sanding better than a spindle sander then one of the small tabletop oil bath spindle sanders like the Jet to Rikon for the small stuff
The 3520c is a well-respected lathe but it is best to take that portion of the budget to the turners forum but legitimate options both above and below the budget are Grizzly, Laguna, Oneway and Robust keep in mind budget wise the lathe itself is just the tip of the iceberg
If you are going to replace the drum sander with another drum sander the only big jump in quality is to a Woodmaster

I can tell your budgets revolve around Powermatic, nothing wrong with most of the Powermatic line but there tend to be better options at most of the price points often American or European made vs Asian.

[Martin Wasner]

Listen to Van. Except on the drum sander, don't get a drum sander. Get a used widebelt.

[Derek Cohen]

Drill press 1650.00 leaning towards the Powermatic but would consider others
18 inch bandsaw 6000.00
20 inch planer. 5300.00
12 inch jointer 6500-7200
Combo disc/belt sander 1700.00
Lathe 5500, leaning towards the Powermatic 3520b
Drum Sander 3000.00 , currently have the Supermax 19/38 and love it but have looked at the Powermatic and not sure if it’s worth the price difference over the Supermax.
Router Table 1800.00
Spindle sander 1500.00

Jason, what are you planning for dust control?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Adam Petersen]

Jason, what are you planning for dust control?

Regards from Perth

Derek

This question is as important as the above electrical questions.

[Jason Ramey]

Thanks for the input Van, I will take a look at your suggestions.

[Jason Ramey]

Hello Adam,
Luckily we already have a large industrial dust collection system in place. I’m happy I don’t need to mess with that😀

[John Sincerbeaux]

Hello Jason
Sorry if I missed this in an earlier post, but what exactly are you going to produce? You said... “We are a small shop that will see moderate to heavy use”. Sounds like you are running a business? You are getting a ton of recommendations for machines but I am not sure what exactly they are for? A luthier is going to have totally different shop/equipment than that of a cabinetmaker or a cutting board maker? Again sorry if I missed that part.

[Mike Kees]

My advice would be to buy as much stuff as possible used. If you make a "mistake" and purchase a machine that does not get used or is not quite good or big enough it is far easier to sell and recoup most of your money. Now you re-invest in the direction you have the need. Mike.

[Jason Ramey]

Hello Jason
Sorry if I missed this in an earlier post, but what exactly are you going to produce? You said... “We are a small shop that will see moderate to heavy use”. Sounds like you are running a business? You are getting a ton of recommendations for machines but I am not sure what exactly they are for? A luthier is going to have totally different shop/equipment than that of a cabinetmaker or a cutting board maker? Again sorry if I missed that part.
Hello John,
We are actually a university shop used by students. My background is in furniture design/woodworking but I am not going to be able to teach as much as I would in a traditional wood program. The last two places I worked had a mix of General,Powermatic, Agazzani,Felder. I am mostly trying to find the sweet spot as to what I think will last us for many years and hold up to occasional student abuse.

[Jason Ramey]

My advice would be to buy as much stuff as possible used. If you make a "mistake" and purchase a machine that does not get used or is not quite good or big enough it is far easier to sell and recoup most of your money. Now you re-invest in the direction you have the need. Mike.
Hi Mike, thanks for the input. I really wish we could buy used equipment, I always consider that a first option for my own shop but my employer requires new purchases only.

[Jason Ramey]

Hi all,
I think I'm sold on the SMC sp5000 as the band saw option, I love the price!
I am now looking at jointer/planer combos and just got a quote for the Minimax FS41 ES. I have been looking at the Felder AD 941 as well but haven't received an email back at this point. Does anyone have experience with the Minimax Fs41?

[Michael Todrin]

I got one this summer Jason and find it great to use. Easy transition between jointer and planer. Returns to zero. Good dust collection and heavy and stable. The tersa head is great too for easy knife changes and cut quality.

[Charles P. Wright]

I bought a FS41 last year. The changeover isn't bad but with the American style guard it is a bit of a pain to move it out of the way so the second table doesn't crush it when moving back to the jointer. It also feels a bit flimsy; but it works. I think it is more there so that the requirement to have a guard is met than to function as a guard. The rest of the machine is solid, and it's a joy to use.

[Jim Becker]

Many of us have replaced the "pork chop" guard on the SCM/Minimax J/P-s with a proper EURO/Bridge Guard.

[Charles P. Wright]

Many of us have replaced the "pork chop" guard on the SCM/Minimax J/P-s with a proper EURO/Bridge Guard.
I've considered it, but my porkchop is still working. It does looks like the euro guard swings more easily out of the way when switching the machine over.

In a school setting, I don't think you would want to have the euro guard which doesn't OSHA requirements. Similarly, the American guard doesn't meet European requirements.

[Jason Ramey]

Hello all. How does the Felder ad 941 compare to the Minimax fs41? I just tot a quote for the Felder and the price is much less than the minimax.its really tempting at the price they quoted

[Jason Ramey]

So I just talked to the electrician and have a question. He saw that the Felder ad 941 is made in Austria and he asked if it is UL listed. He says that we cannot install it if it isn’t UL listed. Does anyone here have experience with this? The images of the motor do not say UL listed.

[Steve Kang]

Hi all,
I think I'm sold on the SMC sp5000 as the band saw option, I love the price!
I am now looking at jointer/planer combos and just got a quote for the Minimax FS41 ES. I have been looking at the Felder AD 941 as well but haven't received an email back at this point. Does anyone have experience with the Minimax Fs41?

Are you sure you want a combo j/p machine? I'd go with separates if you're putting together a student workshop. If someone's using the machine for planing, then they're also tying up the jointer... you'll have a lot of people waiting around for their turn. I've spent time in shared workshops and when shop time is limited you want to be as efficient as possible.

[David Zaret]

i'm a fan of combo machines - i own a big one - but here, i agree with steve. if you have the space (which i would presume you do given the circumstances), get separate machines. for a sole worker in limited space, a combo machine is great. for a school workshop... steve's on the mark here.




Are you sure you want a combo j/p machine? I'd go with separates if you're putting together a student workshop. If someone's using the machine for planing, then they're also tying up the jointer... you'll have a lot of people waiting around for their turn. I've spent time in shared workshops and when shop time is limited you want to be as efficient as possible.

[Jason Ramey]

Good point, we are a very small shop and it would save a bit of space as i am looking at placing a Vega edge sander where our 8 inch Powermatic planer now sits as we will be getting rid of that. But... if I don’t go with the combo machine that brings me back to the 15 inch Powermatic planer and 12” jointer with shelix head which should put me under 10,000 for the pair. I’m pretty sure that the electrician won’t have issues with the ul listing. He also did mention that we would just use a buck boost transformer on each machine so that seems to be solved for now.

[Mike Kees]

I do not know how this works in the U.S. Here in Alberta/Canada we have an inspection service for machines that enter the country without a CSA sticker. All Euro equipment I have seen has one of these blue stickers from the dealers that certifies it . I would assume the U.S. would have some similar system ?

[Mike Kees]

Jason ask the Felder rep how that works.They would have to know.

[Jason Ramey]

Jason ask the Felder rep how that works.They would have to know.
Hi Mike, he doesn't seem to have a clear answer. I am getting in touch with our electrical inspector to see what he says...will hopefully know tomorrow.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, the motor will not have a UL approval, that's not a problem as the entire machine needs an approval, which if the motor meets requirements, isn't an issue.

In Canada Felder have the machines made to Canadian standards and are field inspected at the dealer, and an approval issued.

Regards, Rod.

[Jason Ramey]

Thanks Rod, I will look into that,

[Jason Ramey]

I just placed an order for the Nova voyager 58000 drill press so that’s one machine down and many more to go. Next up is the lathe but the dollar amount hinges on me excluding a few luxury items from the budget. Does anyone have input on the Laguna LT 18 bandsaw?
Looks like a nice machine and would add about 8-900 to my lathe budget. This would put me in the Robust Sweet 16 range and possibly the American beauty( which was recommended by a few folks in the turners forum) and all of the above machines are 220 so they can be plugged into existing outlets. We would still be doing an electrical upgrade but the above options would have us up and running right away, except for the jointer/planer combo .... Which is 230

[Van Huskey]

Does anyone have input on the Laguna LT 18 bandsaw? Looks like a nice machine and would add about 8-900 to my lathe budget.

The Laguna LT18HD is a good saw, it is built by ACM in Italy with Baldor motors and Laguna's guides substituted for the normal ACM spec. I prefer the SCM/Formula saws (built by Centauro in Italy) as they are built heavier but they don't make an 18" though I would be hard pressed to choose between the Formula 400 and the LT18 but I am kinda an SCM homer when it comes to new bandsaws.

[Carl Beckett]

Does anyone have input on the Laguna LT 18 bandsaw?


I have an LT18, but am not an expert (I just use it!). It has a Baldor motor (4hp?). One question I would dig into is the drive belt. It uses a single relatively small drive belt (3/8" I believe). Which has slipped on me from time to time. It is entirely possible I am asking it to do too much at those times.

Am curious myself to whether this is a typical size drive belt or if other saws use a larger belt or doubles even...

[Van Huskey]

One question I would dig into is the drive belt. It uses a single relatively small drive belt (3/8" I believe). Which has slipped on me from time to time. It is entirely possible I am asking it to do too much at those times.

The MM16/Formula400 MM20/Formula 500 have a 3VX belt which is a cogged 3/8" belt and has 4.8hp. I have never been aware of any slipping even with powerfeed cutting of ~15" veneer in domestic hardwood on a MM20.

[Jason Ramey]

Hi Carl , any chance you could tell me if you see a UL listed sticker on the motor?

[Van Huskey]

Hi Carl , any chance you could tell me if you see a UL listed sticker on the motor?

Keep in mind what Rod pointed out if you indeed have to have a UL listed appliance in order to hook it up the fact the motor is UL listed is not enough, the whole machine would need to be UL certified so that is what you need to verify.

[Jason Ramey]

Keep in mind what Rod pointed out if you indeed have to have a UL listed appliance in order to hook it up the fact the motor is UL listed is not enough, the whole machine would need to be UL certified so that is what you need to verify.
Thanks Van. I just talked to our inspector and got a bit more info. It's definitely a no go on the Felder and/or any Minimax products. I have been talking to Laguna today and got a quote for the Lt 2417 Italian made band saw. It looks like a nice machine. I am also looking at the 20 inch Laguna 4 post planer and the 12 inch parallelogram jointer. I wasn't originally thinking I'd go with Laguna but I'm getting close to making the order as they are able to CSA certify all three machines for a fee. They are the only people I have found so far who will do this. I was looking at the Powermatic 12 inch jointer with Byrd cutter and the tech guy said that machine isn't even fully certified but the 8 inch version is certified.

[Van Huskey]

I wasn't originally thinking I'd go with Laguna but I'm getting close to making the order as they are able to CSA certify all three machines for a fee.

Where are you located? If you need CSA certification that can be done by both SCM and Felder, they do it all the time for Canadian customers since Canada is much more strict about these things than the US. Rod could probably explain it, at least on the Felder side.

[Jason Ramey]

Hi Van, I'm in Minnesota. If that can be done, that would be great. Just not sure where to start so any help is appreciated. Who is Rod?

[Van Huskey]

Who is Rod?

Rod Sheridan, see post #36. Again, being in the US I don't know how that would work but they may be able to get CSA approved machines for you.

[Jason Ramey]

Hi, the motor will not have a UL approval, that's not a problem as the entire machine needs an approval, which if the motor meets requirements, isn't an issue.

In Canada Felder have the machines made to Canadian standards and are field inspected at the dealer, and an approval issued.

Regards, Rod.

Hi Rod,
I’m wondering if this means I can get my machine via a Canadian dealer since CSA is accepted here in the states ?

[Jason Ramey]

Since I’m leaning towards Laguna because of the CSA certification. Does anyone have input on their 12 inch jointer and 20 inch planer? The Powermatic 15 inch 209hh is certified as is their 8inch jointer both with Byrd cutter ( or whatever type they’re using right now ) and I’m wondering if the performance would be similar between the Powermatic and the Laguna as both planers look to be similar 4 post designs.

[Mike Kees]

Jason not meaning to confuse this further but Grizzly has a bunch of tools that are CSA certified. 8'jointer ,15 planer and tablesaws as well as 17 and 19 bandsaws. I could never find what I wanted,GO636 bandsaw,20 inch industrial planer,5 h.p. or larger shaper etc. But a lot of the smaller serious hobby level stuff is.FWIW,Mike.

[Jason Ramey]

Jason not meaning to confuse this further but Grizzly has a bunch of tools that are CSA certified. 8'jointer ,15 planer and tablesaws as well as 17 and 19 bandsaws. I could never find what I wanted,GO636 bandsaw,20 inch industrial planer,5 h.p. or larger shaper etc. But a lot of the smaller serious hobby level stuff is.FWIW,Mike.

Hi Mike, thanks , I did see a few of the CSA approved Grizzly machines when I did a CSA search. I’m having the same problem, I would love to find a 12 inch jointer with shelix or similar with CSA approval for the entire unit. I’m seriously considering the Laguna route as the days go by but 8 have recently contacted a Cantek dealer to see if they may be able to pull something off. If any dealers are reading this thread and may be able to help, I’m all ears and ready to purchase immediately.

[Mike Kees]

Jason look up Ackhurst machinery they are Cantek dealers in Canada,those machines are CSA certified on this side of the border. I am looking at one of their shapers and a 20'' planer. Ackhurst is in Edmonton Alberta and in B.C. somewhere in the Vancouver area.

[Jason Ramey]

Jason look up Ackhurst machinery they are Cantek dealers in Canada,those machines are CSA certified on this side of the border. I am looking at one of their shapers and a 20'' planer. Ackhurst is in Edmonton Alberta and in B.C. somewhere in the Vancouver area.
Thanks Mike! That should mean that there are at least a few here in the states that can be bought before heading to Canada. If I could buy everything from them, my problems would be solved . Going to call them tomorrow as I like the looks of just 20 inch planet as well as the 20inch jointer. I’ve looked at the bandsaws but have no idea what to compare them to as far as quality .

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Rod,
I’m wondering if this means I can get my machine via a Canadian dealer since CSA is accepted here in the states ?

Hi Jason, are you sure that CSA is acceptable in the US? I was responsible for certification at an electrical equipment manufacturer and the requirements were very different in both countries.

UL is not acceptable in Canada, CUL or ULC is for example.........Rod.

[Jason Ramey]

Hi Jason, are you sure that CSA is acceptable in the US? I was responsible for certification at an electrical equipment manufacturer and the requirements were very different in both countries.

UL is not acceptable in Canada, CUL or ULC is for example.........Rod.
Good question, I’m a bit confused about the entire process. However, I did find some Minnesota based inspectors who can come in and inspect the machine as we need a 3rd party here in Minnesota. From what I understand, I,m not sure if they will even give it CSA approval but they will give it the equivalent.This means that I can go with the Felder ad 941 and the FB 610 ( I hope). I was looking at Vega edge sanders but found that Grizzly actually has a fully approved oscillating sander that has excellent reviews so that may be a possibility.

[Jason Ramey]

Hi all ,
After all of the input, I think I’ve narrowed it down on the jointer and planer choices.
Here is what I’ve been looking at.
If anyone has input regarding the following 4 planers that would be great. My choices are mostly based on price and reviews

Grizzly 0454 20 inch planer with helical cutter
Cantek 2o inch planer with helical head
Oliver 16 inch planer with helical head
Powermatic 20 inch planer with helical head

The Powermatic is affordable but will it be better than the Grizzly?

Jointers
Grizzly 12 inch with helical head ( not the z model)
Oliver 12 inch with helical head
Cantek 12 inch with helical head

I am also budgeting 900.00 for each machine for CSA inspection. The Cantek machines already meet the standards and come with a sticker.the grizzly 12 inch also meets CSA standards. I’m not worried about matching machines. Not sure what combo to go with. I haven’t seen much info on the Oliver machines.
I was leaning heavily towards the ad-941 convo machine but the CSA inspection put this out of my budget range.

[Mike Kees]

Jason I have experience with the Cantek jointer. One of my friends owned one,it was a very solid machine. The one he had still had the straight knife cutterhead,I think they are the same machine now except the spiral head. It was this machine that I tried to buy after he sold it to another guy. I would lean towards the Cantek personally. YMMV, Mike.

[Jason Ramey]

Jason not meaning to confuse this further but Grizzly has a bunch of tools that are CSA certified. 8'jointer ,15 planer and tablesaws as well as 17 and 19 bandsaws. I could never find what I wanted,GO636 bandsaw,20 inch industrial planer,5 h.p. or larger shaper etc. But a lot of the smaller serious hobby level stuff is.FWIW,Mike.
Thanks Mike, they seem like a great deal . Do you know if anyone with experience with the Cantek 12 inch jointer? I’m thinking it would be of the same quality but not sure . That and the grizzly are both CSA approved but the grizzly is about 2300 less.

[Jim Becker]

Jason, be sure you are informed about actual availability of the specific tools you are considering. Supply chain has been "interesting" as of late because of production realities for some brands of tools. Some tools have long lead times, in other words, and if you want/need to get the shop put together by a particular date, availability is a material part of the shopping task.

[Jason Ramey]

Jason, be sure you are informed about actual availability of the specific tools you are considering. Supply chain has been "interesting" as of late because of production realities for some brands of tools. Some tools have long lead times, in other words, and if you want/need to get the shop put together by a particular date, availability is a material part of the shopping task.
Good point regarding supply chain issues. I have finally placed orders for the following items and the bandsaw and planer have a 4 month wait which actually works out since we won’t have new electrical until may. The Grizzly items have 7-10 day waits.

Here’s what I have ordered so far, I had to compromise a bit to get what I wanted but I think it will be a nice setup when finished.

SCM Nova 20” s520 planer with Tersa head
SCM s500p bandsaw
Grizzly 3hp oscillating sander G0564
Grizzly G0609x planer with helical head ( ordering next week)
Nova voyager drill press ( has already arrived and I love it so far
Powermatic 3520c lathe with many accessories and mobile lift,rock,and roll base

Still need to decide on Miter Saw, currently have 12 inch Dewalt
Looking at the Festool Kapex (top of budget) or the Bosch 12” slider and use extra money for a dedicated dust collector / Fein vacuum

Still need to decide on Router Table, $2000 budget for that but not sure where to start....
Also ordering a few Festool dust collectors, and track saw, another domino, a few sanders, and 8-10 workbenches ( have been looking at the Rockler benches for around 600 each

[Jason Ramey]

Good point regarding supply chain issues. I have finally placed orders for the following items and the bandsaw and planer have a 4 month wait which actually works out since we won’t have new electrical until may. The Grizzly items have 7-10 day waits.

Here’s what I have ordered so far, I had to compromise a bit to get what I wanted but I think it will be a nice setup when finished.

SCM Nova 20” s520 planer with Tersa head
SCM s500p bandsaw
Grizzly 3hp oscillating sander G0564
Grizzly G0609x planer with helical head ( ordering next week)
Nova voyager drill press ( has already arrived and I love it so far
Powermatic 3520c lathe with many accessories and mobile lift,rock,and roll base

Still need to decide on Miter Saw, currently have 12 inch Dewalt
Looking at the Festool Kapex (top of budget) or the Bosch 12” slider and use extra money for a dedicated dust collector / Fein vacuum

Still need to decide on Router Table, $2000 budget for that but not sure where to start....
Also ordering a few Festool dust collectors, and track saw, another domino, a few sanders, and 8-10 workbenches ( have been looking at the Rockler benches for around 600 each

Just saw that I said planer instead of jointer for the Grizzly G0609x

[Curt Harms]

Are you sure you want a combo j/p machine? I'd go with separates if you're putting together a student workshop. If someone's using the machine for planing, then they're also tying up the jointer... you'll have a lot of people waiting around for their turn. I've spent time in shared workshops and when shop time is limited you want to be as efficient as possible.

That was my thought as well. Combos and separates fit best in different scenarios.