Downgrade a bandsaw?

[Carl Beckett]

Just perusing the posts here on the benchtop bandsaws. Most bandsaw threads are that you need more saws, and bigger saws. ;)

I have a larger LT18, and a smaller Jet 14". The Jet is nothing special but I use it a lot. However, as many of you can relate, I am pressed for space and my shop is getting more crowded than I would like.

So wondering if I went down to a benchtop machine (like the 10" Rikon or such). It would save some shop floor space (I have a bench spot I could put it on).

Have read the fence and miter isnt great. A consideration. And table size is smaller. Might miss the larger table. But most of my work on the smaller saw is.. smaller stuff. Odds and ends and curves and anything that I dont want to run through the resaw blade, which stays on the larger saw 95% of the time. Its not obvious to me power would be a problem unless grossly underpowered.

Anyone want to offer opinions? (opinions about bandsaws!)

(and my apologies if this has been covered ad nauseum... it may be here and I missed it)

[Van Huskey]

If I understand correctly your plan is to replace the 14" with a 10" like the Rikon 10-305. That certainly would work for lots of small stuff and if you have or get a 1/4" blade for the LT18 you could always deal with larger stuff if needed.

I would suggest keeping your eye out for one of the Inca 2 wheel bandsaws it would likely be perfect for you if you found one. Very high quality for a small saw. Also for small work I am kinda a fan of the ubiquitous Craftsman 12" saws that litter CL all the time. They are far from perfect but for your use a good, complete and running one can be had for a song on most CLs around the country.

[Prashun Patel]

look at the Rikon 10-306 vs the 10-305. Appears to be an improvement.

[Van Huskey]

look at the Rikon 10-306 vs the 10-305. Appears to be an improvement.

Yes, I actually meant to type 306 but so used to the Rikon 10-305 being their 10" saw I didn't.

The 10-306 has a host of differences and well worth the extra $100 in my mind, especialy for someone that isn't likely to upgrade soon since Carl is downsizing. The wheels are heavier as is the tension system, it has a much better fence, tooless guides (simialr to the new ones on their larger saws) more hp (1/2 vs 1/3), I may not have gotten them all but it is what I remember from IWF.

[Cary Falk]

Noooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!
Rules:
1) Never, under any circumstance, downgrade.
2) See rule #1.

Please leave your man card at the door when you leave.

Now that I got that off my chest, I bought a 10" craftsman on CL for the same reason you mention. I have a 17" Grizzly. I got tired of tripping over it and sold it. I don't use a bandsaw much.

[Brian Hall]

I went from a 12" craftsman to a LT 24" , the 24" is just to big so stuck a 1" blade on it and purchased a small LT16 , the 16" 99% of the time has a 3/16" blade on it.

[Carl Beckett]

Yes, I actually meant to type 306 but so used to the Rikon 10-305 being their 10" saw I didn't.

The 10-306 has a host of differences and well worth the extra $100 in my mind, especialy for someone that isn't likely to upgrade soon since Carl is downsizing. The wheels are heavier as is the tension system, it has a much better fence, tooless guides (simialr to the new ones on their larger saws) more hp (1/2 vs 1/3), I may not have gotten them all but it is what I remember from IWF.

Two speed
Quick release tensioning

[Carl Beckett]

Thanks all for the insights

I may not be completely crazy....

Whew

[Dan Jansen]

I really liked my 10” Delta Homecraft if you can find one local. They are relatively inexpensive, heavy and well built. I eventually upgraded to a 14” Walker Turner but that little guy was nice.

[Zachary Hoyt]

Earlier this year I added a Rikon 10-305 and have kept a 1/4" blade in it ever since. It is great for cutting tighter curves. I started out with a Rockwell 14" saw, then replaced that with an 18" Jet. I didn't really have room in the shop for both bigger saws so I did everything with the Jet. It is too time consuming to change blades, I mainly build banjos and other stringed instruments and would be changing blades a dozen times a day, so I just did everything with a 1/2" 3 TPI blade. Now that I have both saws I can make most of a cut on the big one, shut it off, walk over to the small one and cut the 1" radius curve and it's all done in no time, and with better results than I would get by using either blade for the whole cut. I have used the 10-305 to cut 4" maple and it's pretty slow, but mostly I just use it for cuts up to 2-1/4" deep and it does them just fine in all of the hardwoods I use. I'm not after a really fast cut, I'd rather go slow and get it just right since I'm not having to process huge amounts of wood.
Zach

[Carl Beckett]

Close to moving forward with a 10-306. Will purchase extra blades with it up front.

Any recommendations on specific blades to acquire with it? (size, type, pitch, brand)

Any other accessories or add-ons to consider?

I will have to decide whether to clamp it down or bolt it down, or leave it un-tethered so I can just move it around. Will of course share updates on it once it is up and going (patience! I dont move that fast on these projects...)

[Nick Decker]

For smaller blades, I've had good luck with Starrett.

If it were me, I'd bolt it to a piece of plywood. Less tippy, but you can still move it around easily.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I can't speak to the 306 but my 305 is quite solid without being secured for the work I do. I haven't used it to cut anything that weighed more than 10 pounds or so, and maybe with heavier boards you'd want to clamp it down. It doesn't feel at all tippy to me. I just have it sitting on top of a cabinet.
Zach

[Andrew Seemann]

There are a lot of other tools in the shop I would give up before my 14" Delta bandsaw, including the 16" Jet with the 1" blade. I used to have a 12" Craftsman that ultimately got replaced with the 14" Delta. The 14" inch was such an improvement, I can't imagine going back to the 12" or a 10". Not so much for the size, but the 14" cut soooo much better, regardless of blade size or brand.

If you get a smaller bandsaw, I'd recommend hanging on to the larger one for a while, to make sure you really want to part with it.

[Gary Ragatz]

Close to moving forward with a 10-306. Will purchase extra blades with it up front.

Any recommendations on specific blades to acquire with it? (size, type, pitch, brand)

Any other accessories or add-ons to consider?

I will have to decide whether to clamp it down or bolt it down, or leave it un-tethered so I can just move it around. Will of course share updates on it once it is up and going (patience! I dont move that fast on these projects...)

Re: accessories/add-ons - I've had a 10-306 for a couple of months. When I got it, nothing in my (somewhat limited) dust collection arsenal would connect to the dust port. A Rockler 2-1/2 x 4 adapter "almost" worked, but the dust port is so close to the bottom of the saw that unless you have it sitting on the edge of a bench, there's no clearance for the 4" side of the adapter. The simple solution turned out to be a 2" x 2" flexible pipe coupling. I could force it over the dust port for a good friction fit, and cranked the band clamp on the other end down a few notches for a nice tight fit for my shop vac hose.

The saw has no built-in light, so I'm looking for some kind of gooseneck lamp to get some light on my workpiece. If anybody has any recommendations, I'd love to hear them.

Re: un-tethered or not - the base of the saw is pretty narrow, so I wouldn't want to use it without having it attached, somehow, to a more stable base. Mine is bolted to a mobile base (all my tools are mobile). Bolting to a piece of plywood would give it stability and still allow you to move it around. Clamping would certainly work too, but seems like it would be more hassle than other options.

[Carl Beckett]

The saw has no built-in light, so I'm looking for some kind of gooseneck lamp to get some light on my workpiece. If anybody has any recommendations, I'd love to hear them.


Dust collection fitting was on my list, but didnt know the size. There is a 10-305 at my local Woodcraft, if it is the same as the 306 I could size it for fit right in the store.

A light is a great idea! (in fact need one on my LT18. Found this old thread discussing the topic:

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?52273-Bandsaw-work-light-looking-for-ideas&p=530878

or this

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=71189&cat=1,70596,43349,71189

or

https://www.rockler.com/24-snake-arm-shop-light

or

https://moffattproducts.com/index.php/product-category/lighting/

[Gary Ragatz]

Carl,

The dust port, if I recall correctly, is 2-1/2" OD (I'm traveling, so I can't check it). I was pleasantly surprised when the 2" flexible coupling slid onto it, with a little persuasion.

Thanks for the suggestions on work lights. The one from Rockler looks like what I had in mind - and I like the option of a clamping or magnetic base.

Gary

[Zachary Hoyt]

My 305 has a dust port that perfectly fits a Ridgid 2-1/2" shop vac hose. I don't know if the 306 is the same. I don't usually hook the vac up but I have a few times and it worked pretty well. I prefer to use a real DC with a 4" hose but some small tools just don't seem to be set up for it.
Zach

[Carl Beckett]

It is done. Jet has sold, Rikon is here. Figured I would try it and if I ever want to bump back to a larger saw I will go with a steel backed 14" (so upgrade from what I had before)

10 mins unpacking and turned it on and first impressions are positive but have yet to cut anything meaningful with it. The extra blades have not yet arrived. More pics once I try it in action.

[richard poitras]

Looking forward on your thoughts once you try it. You got the 10-306 correct?

[Wojciech Tryc]

It is done. Jet has sold, Rikon is here. Figured I would try it and if I ever want to bump back to a larger saw I will go with a steel backed 14" (so upgrade from what I had before)

10 mins unpacking and turned it on and first impressions are positive but have yet to cut anything meaningful with it. The extra blades have not yet arrived. More pics once I try it in action.
Looking forward to your initial impressions. I am contemplating between Rikon 10-306 and Wen's 10" bandsaw. Considering Wen mainly because of included options, such as stand and light, but also because of resew capacity of 6".

[Van Huskey]

Considering Wen mainly because of included options, such as stand and light, but also because of resew capacity of 6".

I wouldn't let the 6" resaw height affect my buying decision in this case. It is unlikely you will do any significant amount of resawing at 6" on a saw that has roughly 1/3hp and practically limited to a 3/8" blade. It is kinda like buying a Honda Civic with a trailer hitch rated for 5000 pounds. If you honestly need to tow 5000 pounds you need to consider another vehicle. These saws do a good job within their capability but if you expect too much they will be a bitter disappointment.

I am interested in Carl's experience with the 306, for a long time manufacturers built their small 9-10" saws at a "toy" level, Rikon seems to have moved the quality a good step closer to the venerable Inca saws that for years have been the gold standard of small saws and thus commanded a high price on the used market. They along with the older American made small saws were the only way to get larger saw quality scaled down, the 305 is decent but the 306 looks like it might come in at very good but the price is also moving it closer to bigger saws as well.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I have cut 3" thick maple on my 10-305 but it was done very slowly because of the small motor. It's not a saw I would consider at all useful for resawing, but I have a bigger saw for that. With softwoods it might be different, but I don't do much with them other than for soundboards.
Zach

[Dave VanDewerker]

I helped a friend setup his new 10-306. Overall I was fairly impressed, nice solid built bandsaw. The only issue was had was that the table table is not square, it is out of square by almost a 1/4 inch over the length of the table, the miter slot was out of square by about 1/8 inch. I am not sure if he was that concerned about it, I told him to call Rikon and see what they say

[Nick Decker]

Dave, I'm curious about what the table and miter slot were out of square with?

[Carl Beckett]

Will get to it, but other activities got in the way. (I am slow!) Plus, I got some extra blades which did not come with the saw. Assume they were shipped separately so hoping to have those as part of the setup.

In the meantime I ripped the side off some alumimun channel for a different project. No issues at all with the smaller saw size (a lot of use will be smaller stuff and this proved to be true). Plus I do a little metal work from time to time so that needs to be part of it (with the right blades).

Stay tuned...

[Dave VanDewerker]

The table itself was not square, when we squared the fence to the front of the table you could see the fence was not straight with the edge of the table. Not really a big deal, but the miter slot was also not square to the front of the table, this made the fence not parallel to the miter slot, I think this could be adjusted. Just a pain to make all the adjustments. This was not a problem for the user since he said he never used the miter slot.
Just to be sure I checked both of my band saws and both my Laguna and Griz have square tables.

[Nick Decker]

My main concern would be the ability to adjust the table so that it is perpendicular to the blade. The fence should be adjustable so that it runs parallel to the miter slot and to compensate for drift. It's been a while since I owned the 305, which I sold, but I seem to recall that both those adjustments were possible. To me, making those kinds of adjustments are just part of setting up any new tool.

[Carl Beckett]

Ok, some first impressions out of the box. No setup all all yet.

The table comes with a film over it, and a coating of protectant on the top side. This comes off easily with the wipe of a rag. The table is held to the saw by 4 bolts. Simple enough.

The fence attaches to the table with knobs, as does the 'slot leveler' (dont actually know what it is called - many saw use a pin to keep the table surface planar at the slot - this one has a small hex head with a knob underneath. The fence screws onto the fence/guide assy with thumb screws.

Attach a do-hicky to hang the fence on the left top when not in use, and .... thats it for assembly.

Some pics attached. The guide bearings are nice and adjust easily with the plastic knobs. (note I have not set these yet). Sliding the fence and eye-balling along the miter slot looks 'pretty good' - havent put an indicator on it yet. The fence is pretty square to the table, and the table is pretty square to the blade. The table has tilting detents which I simply set to zero and it came in decent. See pics. The lower wheel spins nicely and without slop. I havent put an indicator on it yet. The upper wheel spins freely and has some wiggle (not in the bearing but in the tensioning mechanism) - I assume this is by design and with tension applied it rests up against the set screw. The blade tracks in one place. Dust collection fit a 2 1/5" hose (note I havent run it with the cyclone on yet)

I put a small block of white oak through it as is and it cut fine, although I intentionally went slow. Note I will do more when I get the other blades that are on order. And will properly setup and tension.

The general features are all noted in the previous video comparing the 306 to the 305. I like the tensioning lever. You can see a pic of the tensioning system. The fence did rotate out on me as I was putting pressure on the block being resawn. If you press up against the top edge of the fence too hard, it will simply rotate and slip off the guide rail. Maybe I didnt press hard enough on the cam lock lever - it is plastic, and all the surfaces are new, so I am not sure how that will go over time. Could get smoother and tighter, or could become buggered and rough. Or break. It is very similar to other tablesaw fences where a cam lever simply squeezes/pinches to the guide rail. Likely just me being timid at first until I get more comfortable with it.

Overall I have a very favorable impression. It will be very interesting to see if I miss the 14" saw. Already the tension release, and fence are better than what was on the 14". The table is smaller. The hp is less, but if I can push through a 3" block of oak it will handle a lot before I need to step up to my Laguna. There is no tensioning indicator so I will have to tension via flutter or other method.

This will set on a bench end on the side of my shop. The entire reason for this was to save some floor space (my shop is 480sq ft and a combo of wood/metal working equipment packed in). I am optimistic it will achieve that and still perform everything I want it to do. (as mentioned, I can always throw a difft blade on the larger saw).

More to come as I set it up 'properly', but to be honest it is 90% (or more) there out of the box.

Feel free to request specific questions if you have them, and any suggestions on what should be checked/tuned for top working performance. By no means am I a bandsaw expert, but so far I quite like this little guy.

[Carl Beckett]

some more pictures 8 at a time

[Carl Beckett]

and another set

[Carl Beckett]

Video comparing 306 to 305

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueB4zSCr6V4

Just rewatched the beginning of this video and I was definitely too timid on the fence lock, and was not getting it all the way down.

[richard poitras]

Carl, were did you buy the saw from and did it come with the fence and miter gauge? As I see some dealers are selling the fence as an option...

Thanks Richard

[Carl Beckett]

I purchased from ToolCenter.com It came in a few days and was well packaged, no damage. Would have purchased at my local Woodcrafter but they did not have it in stock.

I am not sure the fence can be sold separately, because it is packaged inside the OEM box.

There is no miter gauge with the tool (I have a different one I will use for it).

[Zachary Hoyt]

I sold the fence and mounting bar off my 305 here on the Sawmill Creek classifieds right after I got the saw. I don't know if anyone else would be likely to want to sell their fence but it seems possible. The 305 fence seemed pretty sloppy to me, it would have to be manually set parallel each time it was moved and I didn't intend to use my saw for straight cuts. The fence on my 18" saw is fairly self-aligning and works quite well, and that's the one I use for resawing, cutting blocks, etc.
Zach

[Van Huskey]

Carl, thanks for the overview. Update us when you have more time with the saw if you have a chance.

[Carl Beckett]

Carl, thanks for the overview. Update us when you have more time with the saw if you have a chance.

Be glad to.

Please let me know any specific details that anyone would like checked. As noted, the first impressions are very positive and I am optimistic this will serve my needs well.

[Carl Beckett]

The update is.... finally got a couple extra blades. And the one I wanted to use was defective. A good foot or more has the teeth completely rolled out on one side.

Have written for a replacement and assume another will be sent, but it took a while and now have to wait again...

Will do some work with what I have this weekend, stay tuned on that.

[Carl Beckett]

OK, finally had a chance to run a piece through this saw. The blade is a 3TPI flexback from toolcenter - new out of the box. A piece of white oak I had laying around, about 2" wide, which I jointed 2 sides square to each other then just pushed it through.

Tension was set to.... whatever, I just cranked it up a fair bit so it wasnt deflecting a lot when pushed from the side (the manual says 1/4" side deflection). Some day I will setup and measure the actual tension/strain deflection.

And this time I put a DC hose on it.

This little saw cut great. The was some small drift on one corner that likely can be improved on - about .015 on a .090 thk slice at one corner (you see msmts from 4 corners of the finished slice). And the finish surface is about what 'I' would expect from this blade (I dont always have the right expectations!) - not the greatest but it sliced it off. I think a different blade will aid in finish quality. But in general, I didnt get any better cuts out of my 14" saw all other factors being equal.

My opinion: This is a great little saw and will do 98% of what I was doing on the larger Jet. Saving floor space was a goal - accomplished - and the smaller size I can even imagine carrying off to a job somewhere.

Speed and power are not an issue (going through 2" white oak is more than I need - and remember I have a LT18 with a RK for big stuff).

Things I like:
I like the tension release. Very convenient.
I like the guides. We will see how they hold up over time, but they are sized right for the blades used on this size of machine, and the spring loaded adjustment is quite easy.
I like the size. Power will not be an issue for me (I am a believer that a sharp blade is the key to power requirements)
I like the fence ***
Overall build quality is good. Wheels and bearings are solid with no runout.
Dust collection works fine (I am not as zealot about this as some, so take that with a grain of salt)
Setup and out of box was a breeze. The fence sits right up against the table so not much to go wrong there. The table has a leveling screw to square it to the blade. All wrenches and hardware needed are provided (and a storage place for these on the back of the saw so I dont lose them... ahem)

Nitty stuff:
The fence lever is plastic. It takes a fair bit of force to push it all the way down and I still am shy about it. This may wear in. Or I may take some sandpaper to it judiciously. But it flexes a fair bit when I am pushing on it - and the force is more than ideal to make it a 'smooth satisfying operation'. There are ways I could fiddle with this and improve it, but I wont. Am just going to use it. But I have done some consumer design/interface in my past, and I think this is an area they missed an opportunity. The ONE single most used interface on the entire machine - make it good and put extra effort and money here! It helps the overall experience. (just a philosophical rant... the thing works fine!)

But with the force required for the fence locking mechanism, it means more hassle getting it set where you want, and locked. Even in the video you see the gentleman lift the level and the entire fence flips up/out from the force.

The tensioning mechanism is pretty much the same as all the others. A compression spring with a sliding block/yoke assembly. None of these are the smoothest or very precise designs. This one is no different. it works. As mentioned, I havent taken a strain measurement but once I get the preferred blades I may do this and make some marks for future tensioning reference (or more likely, not, and just use it as is). I am curious how the 'flutter' method will compare to the manual which suggests a side deflection method.

Net Net: I like it. I am happy with the decision to swap out. I can recommend it to those looking for a smaller bandsaw.

[Nick Decker]

Sounds like it's working well, Carl.

In the second photo, I think you'll have better results if you use a push block or featherboard to keep the stock tight against the fence. Then again, maybe trying to saw and shoot video at the same time requires more hands than you have. 8)

[Carl Beckett]

Sounds like it's working well, Carl.

In the second photo, I think you'll have better results if you use a push block or featherboard to keep the stock tight against the fence. Then again, maybe trying to saw and shoot video at the same time requires more hands than you have. 8)

Yes, indeed.