The Basement Theater and Bar Construction Project

[Dan Mages]

And so it begins...

For the next few months, I will keep everyone apprised on the progress of finishing my basement in this thread. The basement was previously finished with a very 1970s look with lime green shag carpeting, laminated masonite paneling, two electrical outlets, a cheap aluminum window, and no insulation. The basement also leaked very time it rained since the 42 year old clay drain tile is clogged with weeds and mud (if anyone knows a way to clean them, let me know).

This obviously was not a good situation, so over the past 6 months I have been doing some preliminary work and planning to refinish the basement. Here is the work done so far:

1. All of the old panelling and furring strips were removed. I found this nasty little surprise hiding behind the panel. Not a good sign for the electrical work in the house. All of it will be redone in the basement. During the drain tile installation, they found the buried conduits and I cut them off. The boxes have been sealed.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/DanMages/Basement%20work/P1010026.jpg

2. I brought in a great company to install new drain tile for my basement. All of the details are listed in this tread. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=25405&highlight=drain+tile

3. I installed a new rear door for the basement. I am contemplating how to finish this door due to the issues listed in this tread. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=26901

4. The walls were painted with two heavy coats of Zinnser Watertite concrete paint. This should seal it and give some mildew protection.

5. The drywall on the ceiling and on a couple other walls were torn down to make it easier to install new wiring, insulation, etc... another electrical disaster was spotted during this demo. This box was tacked to the drywall, not to a stud, and as fed by a box on another wall with bell wire. The wire ran along the base of the wall in the laundry room.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/DanMages/Basement%20work/100B0892.jpg

6. New windows were installed by Renewal by Andersen. I will post the details and pics tonight.

7. I have started to a new vapor barrier on the concrete per the instructions of the waterproofers who did the drain tile work. The vapor barrier is tucked into the plastic channel against the wall to divert all of the water to the drain tile.

[Donnie Raines]

I am in the final stages of finishing my basement. However, my project was a good deal simpler then what you are going to be dealing with. My house is alittle newer and was never finished to begin with....so I had a blank canvas. A lot if walls were built though.

[Dan Mages]

The plans...

Here is the basic layout of the basement. It is not truely done to scale, but it is close. Microsoft's Visio is not the best for layouts.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/DanMages/Basement%20work/Basementplans.jpg

The room is roughly 24' by 15' with 3' extra in the bar nook. When you walk in the front door to the house, you go down the stairs on the right to the basement hallway. To your left is the garage and to your right is the main basement area and the storage closet. Ahead of you is the utility room, laundry, and and bathrrom.

There are some concerns about going through the utility and laundry to get to the bathroom, but there is nothing that can be done to change this problem, except with creative cabinetry.

The storage closet is approximately 3.5'x 7.5'. It is cedar lined and has the patch panel for the TV, phone, and internet services.

The main living area is divided into two sections, the theatre on the right, and the bar on the left.

The theater area will have a 12' run of book cases on the far wall and a 7" run on the wall next to the entrance. They will be similar to Rod Dilyard's design in thread http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=25039. He has been kind enough to send me the details for his design. I am contemplating a fireplace in the middle of the 12' for added heat for the basement. There will be a drop down projection screen in front of the cabinets and a projector somewhere on the ceiling or in the rear book cases. The spot will be determined by the screen size and the projector I choose.

The bar area will have a U shaped cabinet layout. There will be a sink on the wall joining the bathroom so I can tap into the drain line and the water lines that are already in that wall. This wall will not have any upper cabinets, but will probably have a nice counter to ceiling smoked mirror. The exterior wall will have a 12" deep cabinet that will go from the countertop to the ceiling. I plan on having glass doors on this cabinet to display my glassware. The bar itself will stick out approximately 18" into the room and 6" over the lower countertop. There will be a special cabinet at the end of the run for my cash register (all bars need one).

The wall to the left of the opening is still being played with. It will probably be a good place to put in a beer/wine fridge and a telephone booth. I am not sure if there will be enough space and still have room for easy entrance to the bar.

I am planning on wood paneling around the rest of the room at the same height as the bar. All of the wood work for the cabinets will be done with oak.

[Dan Mages]

Construction:

Accoustics. I was planning on doing some work to improve the accoustics in the room, but I could not get a straight answer on what I should do down there or if there is a recognizable difference to validate the extra $1000 I would have spent. Most of the advice was on sound proofing the basement, but that is not important with three exterior walls and the remainder facing storage and utility rooms. Transmission through the ceing is not important due to the 10" of insulation I will be stuffing in there. Long story short, no special accoustic work unless there are any architects in Laguna Beach that may know a few tricks that I can employ ;).

The framing will all be done with traditional wood studs. Nothing special here.

Insulation. I want to use slag/rock wool insulation for the basement since it will not wick moisture and does not harbor mold and mildew like fiberglass. It also has some accoustic values that will be nice. The problem is, I do not know who makes it. Any suggestions??

Electrical. My friend Steve out in Ohio, who is an electrician wrote up some nice plans for the basement. I will try to post them tonight. I want to look into a themed lighting system, like Lutron, but that is still in the air.

Drywall. I will be using Georgia Pacific's DensArmor Plus drywall for the basement walls. It is fiberglass faced so it will not harbor mold and mildew like paper faced drywall. The ceiling will get standard drywall.

Trimwork will be in oak to match the rest of the basement.

Floors. In the bar area, I am looking at 12" honed black granite or slate tile for the floor and countertop. The rest of the room is either an engineered wood flooror a laminate floor.

I think that about covers all of the planning for now. More details tonight. Any thoughts, questions, opinions, criticism?

Thanks for reading.

Dan

[Jarrod Nelson]

I think whoever did your original basement was the general contractor on mine as well. I have found wiring that makes me break out into a cold sweat.

Gotta love the 70s style paneling over furring strips too. Not only energy efficient, but, oh so stylish. :)

I had to start my project by having to hire a guy with a skid steer to tear out my lawn and regrade the lot. Ugg

I like your layout. Looks like a fun place to hang out. The only thing I wonder about is your washer / dryer positioning. Would it be more efficient to have them next to each other?

I look forward to continued updates.

[Bill Lewis]

Dan,
With regard to aucoustics there is one thing that you are overlooking. You should consider insulating the furnace/laundry room to keep the sound of the HVAC equipment, and washer/dryer from disturbing you while you are trying to use the rest of the room for TV/Movies etc. Also use a decent interior door to minimize the sound transmission. it is very inexpensive to do this though you do have to deal with the interior walls of the laundry room.

[Dan Mages]

I like your layout. Looks like a fun place to hang out. The only thing I wonder about is your washer / dryer positioning. Would it be more efficient to have them next to each other?

I look forward to continued updates.

It is not as bad as it looks, it is just a standard 24" wide utility sink between them. I didnt feel like drawing the appliances to scale ;)



With regard to aucoustics there is one thing that you are overlooking. You should consider insulating the furnace/laundry room to keep the sound of the HVAC equipment, and washer/dryer from disturbing you while you are trying to use the rest of the room for TV/Movies etc. Also use a decent interior door to minimize the sound transmission. it is very inexpensive to do this though you do have to deal with the interior walls of the laundry room.

Good points. I will be insulating the interior walls to reduce that noise. I have been contemplating a full glass door, probably frosted or 15 light to separate the two areas. A solid door would make the small hallway seem smaller.

Dan

[Roger Los]

Looks good. Depending on how much of an audio/videophile you are, you might want to investigate the optimum placement of speakers, etc...with an open side to the theater area, you probably aren't going to be able to acheive optimum, but frankly, I'm not enough of a geek to notice the difference and I suspect most people aren't either, so carry on.

My other comment would be (and assurdely you've thought more about this than I have): decide up front what's important to you. For me, the pool table would get more use than a bar ever would, and I would consolidate the bar into the bump out area. :) But that's why it's your project, not mine.

Having said that, if a pool table is in your future, make sure you leave enough room for it. Three feet all the way around is OK, four is much better. So if you get a "bar" table, at 3.5 x 7', you need a 13' x 9.5' (preferably 15 x 12) open area and if you got a pro model, at 9 x 4.5 you could need as much as 17 x 12.5 area for the table. Just something to think about. :) Good luck.

Gotta love "home made" wiring jobs.

[Dan Mages]

Here is the electrical plan for the layout. My friend Steve, who is an electrician, wrote up these plans. I think he went a bit nuts on the recessed lights, but I will trust his judgement. I hope my plans cover everything.

Regards,

Dan

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/DanMages/Basement%20work/Basementplanswithelectrical.jpg

[Dan Mages]

No major updates today. Here are my goals for this weekend.

1. Tidy up the basement. I have done a lot of destruction, so I need to clean up a bit.
2. Repair the floor in the storage room. A few tiles were sacrificed when I had the drain tiles done. I will replace them and get stuff moved back in there.
3. Fishish the vapor barrier. I have one wall left to finish. I will have to move my pile of studs first
4. Complete the descruction of the laundry room. The drywall, the wetwall, and the ceiling all have to come out.
5. If time permits, I will pull out the old exterior spigot on replace it with a frost free job and reframe the wet wall.

Good night all.

Dan

Edit: Here are the details on the windows. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=27078

New basement window:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/DanMages/Basement%20work/100_1015.jpg

[Art Mulder]

Hi Dan,

one comment I would have on your layout is the location of the dryer. It is pretty much dead-center in the basement. That is a long run for the exhaust vent to reach an outside wall. (Assuming you are not venting into the garage, which is generally not a good idea, and dangerous for a gas dryer) Why not just swap the location of the washer and dryer, and you'll cut down on the length required?

[Jim Becker]

Dan, I agree with Art on the dryer. It's easier and more effective to extend the drain and water supply than to have a "too long" dryer vent. Dryer vents are prime fire hazzards and like our DC systems, longer length affects the ability to move air. This, of course, assumes that "that side" of the house provides opportunity to vent. Otherwise, if you have to vent to the side where the walk-out is, leave it as is...

[Dan Mages]

Thanks for the concern on the dryer vents. This is one reason why I am contemplating moving them into the laundry room. This way, the dryer can be right next to the outside wall and have a much shorter run. I would also be able to create a bureau type cabinet. It would have a 12" deep drawer at the base to raise the machines up, ( I have a front load washer, btw), a set of double doors that can be tucked away at the sides, and some additional storage at the top. the water, drain and gas lines would be connected through the top cabinet. Thoughts?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/DanMages/Basement%20work/laundry.jpg

[Matt Meiser]

It looks like you are now planning to do this, but I would suggest putting the washer and dryer right next to each other so that you can move clothes directly from washer to dryer.

[Art Mulder]

You meant the powder room, right?

My brother did something similar, with raising up his washer/dryer set. You do need to ensure that the bottom cabinets are *EXTREMELY* rigid and solidly assembled, to take the shaking from the spinning tumble washer, as well as to not make noise from rattling.

And, don't give up the laundry tub. You do need one. But if you put the W/D in the powder room, you can now move the laundry tub to the side of the laundry/furnace room. Then you have the option of putting in a long counter (for folding/sorting clothes) or a floor-to-ceiling closet or cabinet for storage.

[Brad Rodgers]

Dan -
If you are serious about installing some acoustic treatments for your theater, you really should visit the www.avsforum.com forum. They have a sub-forum on Dedicated Home Theater Design and one of the "stickys" is specifically on accoustic treatments. Your room treatments will have much more of an effect on the quality of sound than the source components you choose. It truly is a remarkable difference.

[Bill Lewis]

Dan,
I assumed that all of your drains are already in place where you show them on the plan, is this correct? After scanning through your posts, I still wasn't sure if it is too late to re-arrange the bath and laundry, or wall off the utility area, and make a combined laundry and bath, maybe with a privacy closet for the toilet. just some random thoughts

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Great project Dan! When going through one room as in the laundry to get to the bathroom...it's an easier transition if you leave the bathroom light on and the laundry light off. Our bathroom and laundry room are the same room!

[Bill Lewis]

it's an easier transition if you leave the bathroom light on and the laundry light off. Or put three way switching on the laundry room light.
Our bathroom and laundry room are the same room!Yes, but Kelly were not talking about the great outdoors here!;) ;) ;)

[Dan Mages]

SWMBO had to study for her law school finals, so I did not do very much over the weekend on the basement. I will have to work hard on the basement this week to make up for it.

Good points on the stability of the washer/dryer cabinet.I think it would work well if I made a 2x4 frame for the washer and dryer to sit on. I can also divide the bottom drawer into two drawers for center supports.


Dan,
I assumed that all of your drains are already in place where you show them on the plan, is this correct? After scanning through your posts, I still wasn't sure if it is too late to re-arrange the bath and laundry, or wall off the utility area, and make a combined laundry and bath, maybe with a privacy closet for the toilet. just some random thoughts


You are right that the drains are all there. When they did the drain tile, I asked that they do not fill in concrete around the toilet flange so I can move it a bit so the head would not be buried 2" into the wall (slight problem ;) so with a little sledgehammer work, I should be able to run a drainline for the washer. No room for a privacy closet for the toilet tho.

I got a quote on the rockwool insulation. It is made by Thermafiber and will cost $17.50 for 50sqft of 3.5" thick material. About twice the cost of fiberglass. They dont offer different thicknesses, so I will double up on the ceiling. Total cost for the insulation will be $595 plus $50 for delivery. Any other good companies to check out for rockwool?

Have a good one!

Dan

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Not sure what ya meant Bill, but our house is 105 years old...before multiple bathrooms and WAY before laundry rooms (but it is inside). If a 3-way works better for ya, then that's what you should do...

[Joe Gillis]

A couple of things that I recommend. Plastic wrap against the cinder block may not be the best thing to help as a vapor barrier.. Fine Homebuilding did a pretty good basement vapor barrier redo over the last 12 months or so. Instead of plastic, 4x8 Styrofoam insulation was laid directly against the block, "glued" on using foam insulation and seams taped. The logic is that condensation forms when the inside temperature and humidity of the block collide. The foam will allow evaporation but also reduce the temperature variance. The plastic vapor wrap I see in your pics will trap the condensation against the block and allow mold to grow.
Also No untreated wood comes in contact directly with the block or floor. The stud wall sandwiches the foam insulation between the studs and block. You stud out the wall normally and fill with fiberglass battens in addition to the 4x8 sheets of foam against the block.
The other big vapor wicking occurs through the floor. The article used similar 1 inch foam on the floor with 2 layers of 3/4" ply or osb on top. I do not recall any sleepers in the article but I have seen 2x PT material used on 24" centers. The thought again is no untreated wood against the concrete and a semi-permeable membrane ala foam insulation. If you can not afford to lose the head room. HD and others sell a product called dri-core. A 7/8" 2'x2' osb tongue and grove subfloor. It provides about a r3 insulation value but also gives you a substrate to carpet or use laminate floor . Additionally, dri-core contacts the concrete using a plastic waffle pattern which allows any water to flow “under the floor” to the drains. Just in case the washer or sink over flow.
<o:p> </o:p>
Do some more research using fine homebuilding. It sounds like you have great ideas on the finishing touches; a dry warm basement will make them a lot more usable.

[Bill Lewis]

Not sure what ya meant BillJust a very poor attempt at making a joke.

[Dan Mages]

A couple of things that I recommend. Plastic wrap against the cinder block may not be the best thing to help as a vapor barrier.. Fine Homebuilding did a pretty good basement vapor barrier redo over the last 12 months or so. Instead of plastic, 4x8 Styrofoam insulation was laid directly against the block, "glued" on using foam insulation and seams taped. The logic is that condensation forms when the inside temperature and humidity of the block collide. The foam will allow evaporation but also reduce the temperature variance. The plastic vapor wrap I see in your pics will trap the condensation against the block and allow mold to grow.
Also No untreated wood comes in contact directly with the block or floor. The stud wall sandwiches the foam insulation between the studs and block. You stud out the wall normally and fill with fiberglass battens in addition to the 4x8 sheets of foam against the block.
The other big vapor wicking occurs through the floor. The article used similar 1 inch foam on the floor with 2 layers of 3/4" ply or osb on top. I do not recall any sleepers in the article but I have seen 2x PT material used on 24" centers. The thought again is no untreated wood against the concrete and a semi-permeable membrane ala foam insulation. If you can not afford to lose the head room. HD and others sell a product called dri-core. A 7/8" 2'x2' osb tongue and grove subfloor. It provides about a r3 insulation value but also gives you a substrate to carpet or use laminate floor . Additionally, dri-core contacts the concrete using a plastic waffle pattern which allows any water to flow “under the floor” to the drains. Just in case the washer or sink over flow.
<o:p> </o:p>
Do some more research using fine homebuilding. It sounds like you have great ideas on the finishing touches; a dry warm basement will make them a lot more usable.
Per the reccomendation of my water proofer (see the thread listed on the first post, I am tacking the vapor barrier to the furring strip that was left over from the old panel wall that was in the basement. It is then left loose down the wall and then tucked into a special channel material seen below to allow any moisture that builds up to go into the drain tile. I am also using a special hydraulic water proofing paint from Zinsser that is supposed to have mold and mildew resistors in the blend. Hopefully, with this comination, I will not have to worry about any mildew growth.

I am not planning on using any type of subloor due to the 7.5' of head room and 6'8" around the air duct and I-Beam channel. I am thinking about using an engineered flooring or laminate flooring with a good insulated underlayment to protect against cold feet.

Progress update: I am about half caught up. The basement is completely cleaned out, the vapor barrier is up, and the wet wall is down. I will post more pics of the wet wall problems later... it does not look pretty.

Laters,

Dan

The plastic drain channel.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/DanMages/Basement%20work/100B0782.jpg

[James Mudler]

Dan - I sent you a PM

[Dan Mages]

James was once a home theatre designer and has kindly created some accoustical abosrbtion info for my basement. Thank you James!!

Dan

[Dan Mages]

When the sink is leaking and all esle fails...:eek:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/DanMages/Basement%20work/100_1017.jpg

Another one for the duct tape archives... :rolleyes:

I found this wonderful gift beneath the basement bathroom sink when I moved in. The sink has been shut off since then, but I have not bothered removing it until now. The bad news is that the wonderfully intelligent people burried my copper water pipes, including the hot water pipes in the concrete. These pipes are pretty heavily corroded and will need to be redone. a bit of a blessing in disguise, but a delay in the project.

Dan

[James Mudler]

Did you get my mail? I have had several peoples mail bounce lately :confused:

[Dan Mages]

Did you get my mail? I have had several peoples mail bounce lately :confused:
James, Yes I did. Sorry for not getting back to you earlier.

Dan

This weekends plans: Nothing. I will be spending it in Milwaukee with LOML. I might have a chance on Sunday to put some time into the project. Have a good weekend!!

Dan

[Dan Mages]

So the work continues. I completed the patch job on the tile floor in the storage room (finally). I took a better look at the corrosion in the pipes and it is worse than I thought. I am going to have to pull out the blow torch and brush up on my plumbing. :( This will set me back a couple of days...

On a side note, I made a trip to a local store called HOBO. They tend to sell contractor's special grade junk, but usually have a good selection of wood and stone flooring. I started to drool when I saw the black granite they had on display which would be nice for the counter tops and the floor in the bar.I drooled even more when I saw bloodwood and brazilian cherry full thickness flooring for roughly $4 a sqft. I wish I had the chance to use that stuff in my basement!! They also had some hand planed white oak engineered flooring at around $5 per sqft which I think may be a good choice for the basement.

Fireplaces... the fireplaces I have seen so far start at around $2k and go up from there. I want to keep it around $1k or less, but I am not having much luck finding a nice one. Menard's sells a 32" model for $600, plus piping, venting, accessories, etc... probably $850 total. I am not thrilled with it, but it may be a last choice. Anyone know of a good fireplace in the 1k range?

Anyhow... that is it for tonight. Have a good one!!

Dan

[Dan Mages]

Sorry for not updating the thread over the past couple of weeks. The weekend before Christmas was spent in detroit at SWMBO's grandparent's 65th wedding anniversary. Last weekend I had four days to work on the basement.... make that 2.5. Gotta give her some quality time.

Anyhow... all of the walls have been framed up. Very few problems with the framing effort. I still have to rebuild the wall between the bar and the bathroom. Framing around the door and window was a little tricky, but was completed with few problems. I hope the finish the framing this weekend.

Electrical has been started. I had an argument with my father and SWMBO on the placement of the four recessed lights facing the book cases on the outside wall. I wanted them 29" from the outside wall and the HVAC chase, and 29" in between. Sounds good right? It made too much sense for them and they made some strange scheme where none of them were evenly spaced. I bit my tounge, let them do their work, and then tore it out and redid it when they were not working. Hopefully, I will have all of the boxes set up and some wiring started by the end of the weekend.

Insulation. I stopped by the insulation distributor and picked up four batts of Thermafiber fiber wool insulation. It is nice stuff and will give me a good start. I just need to find a bigger van to haul the rest of the stuff back to my place.

Plan Changes... The fireplace is no longer in the plans. I cannot find a decent fireplace within my budget, so I will not compromise the basement with a substandard unit. Secondly, I have ditched the front projection system for the basement. I have too much ambient light down there to make the most out of it. I have found a nice 60" Toshiba 1080p capable DLP TV that should do everything I need, although the picture is 30% smaller than the front projection job.

Now for a few pics.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/DanMages/Basement%20work/100_1020.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/DanMages/Basement%20work/100_1022.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/DanMages/Basement%20work/100_1021.jpg

Dan

[Jim Becker]

I'm surprised you're using Thermafiber...when I was in "the business", we only saw that called for in commercial jobs and primarily for fire-stoping between floors, never for walls. Nasty stuff to work with. Gloves and a fully-covered body are absolutely necessary...as well as a cold/cool shower after working with it. (Never hot water after working with insulation...it opens your pores and can exacerbate any fiber irritation) I generally use unfaced fiberglass with a polyethelene vapor barrier...same results, less discomfort. (but still some...)

The framing work looks great, Dan. And IMHO, you did the right thing with moving the lights to where you want them... ;)

[Bob Mooney]

Fireplaces... the fireplaces I have seen so far start at around $2k and go up from there. I want to keep it around $1k or less, but I am not having much luck finding a nice one. Menard's sells a 32" model for $600, plus piping, venting, accessories, etc... probably $850 total. I am not thrilled with it, but it may be a last choice. Anyone know of a good fireplace in the 1k range? Dan

Dan,

I saw your post saying you're not doing the fireplace any longer, but if its still a possibility, I am installing a vent free American Hearth fireplace in my basement. I think the price would approximately be in you ballpark.

Bob

[Dan Mages]

I'm surprised you're using Thermafiber...when I was in "the business", we only saw that called for in commercial jobs and primarily for fire-stoping between floors, never for walls. Nasty stuff to work with. Gloves and a fully-covered body are absolutely necessary...as well as a cold/cool shower after working with it. (Never hot water after working with insulation...it opens your pores and can exacerbate any fiber irritation) I generally use unfaced fiberglass with a polyethelene vapor barrier...same results, less discomfort. (but still some...)

The framing work looks great, Dan. And IMHO, you did the right thing with moving the lights to where you want them... ;)

Yes, I agree that it is some nasty stuff to work with, but it has some benefits for basement applications. Thermafiber does not absorb water like fiberglass does, so it will not harbor mold like fiberglass does. Secondly, if the insulation does get wet, it wont need to be replaced like with fiberglass. Otherwise, yeah. It is two layers of long sleve shirts and sweatshirts and latex gloves under the pvc dot covered jersey gloves.

Dan

[Jim Becker]

I think you will find that Thermafiber and regular fiberglass are a lot more related than you think... ;) Just be careful with your skin when working with it. It truly is nasty stuff. We actually had to pay our installers a higher rate for putting it in on the jobs that called for it...

[Dan Mages]

Here is an updated design for the basement. The telephone booth had to be moved for better access to the bar. I have also extended the book cases to the full length of the 24' wall and moved the phone booth to the end of the run. I am affraid that the booth's door will interfere with the exterior door. I will have to do some simulations to see if the phone booth will be able to stay. The projector and screen have been dropped from the project in favor of a Toshiba 52" or 62" TV. I am still thinking about the size and my final budget.

I also started a thread looking for help with building the cabinets. I have never done this before and will greatly appreciate any help that is offered.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=276034

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/DanMages/Basement%20work/Basementplansv2.jpg

Thats it for tonight.

Dan

[Art Mulder]

Dan,

- I still see the dryer smack in the middle of the house. I thought you were
going to swap that with the washer to shorten the exhaust vent?

- Is that a 6x3' pool table? It looks like only about 18" clearance on the one side. Are those bookcases full or half height? If they're full height, then there is no way that you'll have enough room to shoot pool

- that bar/kitchenette... Maybe I missed the explanation at the start of the thread, but that seems like an awful lot of work for snack storage. What is the purpose of all those cabinets?

Still, looks like it is going to be sweet when complete.
best wishes

[David LaRue]

Dan,

I assume that you are planning to use a gas tankless hot water heater. What are your plans for ducting the B vent for it? (It seems to be in th middle of the floor plan) They throw out a bunch of BTU's and heat. If it is electric, is it only for the downstairs sink?

[Dan Mages]

Dan,

I assume that you are planning to use a gas tankless hot water heater. What are your plans for ducting the B vent for it? (It seems to be in th middle of the floor plan) They throw out a bunch of BTU's and heat. If it is electric, is it only for the downstairs sink?
The tankless unit is already installed and it working marvelously, except for a slightly longer delay in geting hot water at the faucet.

Dan

[Dan Mages]

Dan,

- I still see the dryer smack in the middle of the house. I thought you were
going to swap that with the washer to shorten the exhaust vent?

- Is that a 6x3' pool table? It looks like only about 18" clearance on the one side. Are those bookcases full or half height? If they're full height, then there is no way that you'll have enough room to shoot pool

- that bar/kitchenette... Maybe I missed the explanation at the start of the thread, but that seems like an awful lot of work for snack storage. What is the purpose of all those cabinets?

Still, looks like it is going to be sweet when complete.
best wishes

The more I look at it, the extra book cases do not make much sense, so it will most likely go. Unfortunately, that means the TARDIS will go too. The good doc will be disappointed. :rolleyes:

It is a lot of cabinet space in the bar/kitchenette. My kitchen is rather small and does not have all of the storage space I need, so the bar will be a bit of an overflow storage area.

Dan

[Lars Thomas]

What's a TARDIS?

[Art Mulder]

The more I look at it, the extra book cases do not make much sense, so it will most likely go. Unfortunately, that means the TARDIS will go too. The good doc will be disappointed.
Dan,

Random disorganized thoughts...

- living north of Chicago, I can't see you using that basement door that much, a least not for the cold/slushy half of the year, so I don't see the door as being a problem for the phone booth.

- Saving the Tardis: 1) put it where the dryer is and shove the dryer over -- so it'd take up a corner of the Lndry with the door opening into the hallway. 2) have it replace the corner of the bar closest to the wall/door (so the tardis would be sticking out of the counter. That would be kind of funny. 3) The tardis is bigger on the inside than the outside, so why not make the store room your Tardis? Do up the door to match, et voila! the fact that you might put electronics in there is a plus, in my book.

Have fun with it!
...art

[Richard Blaine]

Having said that, if a pool table is in your future, make sure you leave enough room for it. Three feet all the way around is OK, four is much better. So if you get a "bar" table, at 3.5 x 7', you need a 13' x 9.5' (preferably 15 x 12) open area and if you got a pro model, at 9 x 4.5 you could need as much as 17 x 12.5 area for the table. Just something to think about. :)
Standard cue sticks are 57" and that's why the ideal space around the table is no less than 5'. Anything less than that will require cut down cue sticks.

Yeah, pool tables really do chew up the real estate, but they are a lot of fun.

You do not have to give up you bookcase near the pool table as long as you keep it below the height of the table. As a table height bookcase, the cue sticks will go over the top of the book case when you play.

[Dan Mages]

What's a TARDIS?

It is the Good Time Lord's Time And Relative Dimensions In Space machine. I would tell you more, but the Daleks are getting closer!


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/DanMages/MISC/200px-Dalek_from_BBC.jpg

Dan :rolleyes:

[Dennis McLaughlin]

When I was finishing my basement (well, 95% finished anyways) I looked at putting in a gas fireplace, but balked when I saw the $2,500 price tag. This was for a fairly standard model similar to what I have upstairs plus installation. I also was a little strict about where I wanted to put it. Unfortunately, building codes and such didn't allow for my location of choice so I also had to scrap it. I was planning on building it up with Owens Corning's "Cultured Stone" or something similar. It would have looked kick ass.

Anyway, I settled with doing proper ventilation instead with a cold air return in each basement room and thats turned out to be well worth the extra time.

Get carpeting with extra thick underpad and the temperature down there will be quite nice.

Did you already buy your RPTV? I'm hoping to put a projector down there myself, but ambient light from a pair of windows is concerning for me as well. I know how to control it, its just I don't want to have to draw the blinds everytime the family wants to watch TV or a movie.

[Ben Grunow]

Dan- I am a bulder and one of the things we are required to do when finishing a basement is to install what's called a make-up air system for the boiler of furnace. I know yours was finished but you are improving the efficiency by insulating (we us thermafiber for sound deadening and it's great stuff, you won't believe how quiet your house is- I take a cold shower as Jim recommends and use a soft scrub brush to remove the glass, just brush in the direction of your arm hair or wherever to remove the fibers) and installing vapor barriers and no doubt caulking around doors and windows and just making things more weather and air tight than they were.

The make up air system (I don;t know if you have a permit but it might be required where you live) works this way: for every BTU of output form your furnace you need a certain number of cubic feet of air available to the furnace for combustion, and of course I can't remember the ratio. But what that means is that if you reduce the available combustion air for the furnace you can get a vacuum in your furnace room and that can lead to a build up of carbon monoxide (because it will not be drawn up the chimney when the slight vacuum overcomes the draft). CO is called the silent killer because most people who are killed are sleeping and they just slowly asphixiate (sp???) without the chance to wake up and escape, creepy.

I would look into this and the good news is that there are readily available units (referred to as the "fan in the can") that simply come on with the furnace and supply air via a small 4" duct and 110v fan to the room. Relatively cheap and easy install by HVAC contractor.

The only other thought I have is that this condition is only going to be worsened by the dryer because they exhaust lots of air and that's combustion air we're talking about(I'm talking about anyway). Hope this isn't too confusing but I take these issues very seriously and I hope you will too. Goo luck and I'll post again if I can remember the ratio.

[fRED mCnEILL]

I had the same problem with my drainage tiles and thought I would have to dig them up(big job and big cost). We get a lot of rain here in the pacific northwest. But I found a company that uses a high pressure water jet and suction to clean them out. Basically it is a nozzle with one jet pointing ahead and 5 pointing back that uses 2500 psi to blast the crude out. We had to dig down at each corner of the foundation to gain access to the tiles and then it worked like a charm. The guys who did it here in Vancouver also drain septic tanks so maybe someone in your area also does that.

It was iteresting to watch. The nozzle is placed in the tile and the pressure turned on. Because of the design of the nozzle the hose is self feeding. Worked like a charm.

Fred Mc.

[Peter Mc Mahon]

Hi Dan. I live in Southern Ontario which is mainly a heating climate. I assume that your climate is as well. Here it is a big no no to install the vapour barrier on the cold side of a wall, you are asking for trouble. You should check with your building department on basement specifics. Peter