VerySuperCoolTools - Reviews or Thoughts

[Lisa Starr]

I'd like to upgrade the fence system on my table saw. It is an older Grizzly 1023 cabinet saw with the free "upgrade" of the ShopFox fence. Though the fence is easy to adjust and stays parallel to the blade, I strongly dislike the delta shaped end pieces.
After a fair amount of research, I'm interested in making a custom length Biesemeyer style rail for the saw. Since I work in a machine shop, the fab of it appears to be very straight forward. I'd then purchase the "T" head and rail extrusion from VSCTools.
Does anyone have any experience with this process? Is it likely to produce a quality system? How about VSCTools, has anyone purchased from them? Thanks in advance.
:confused:

[johnny means]

Working in a machine shop, you should be able to fab up an excellent Biessy clone from scratch. I built one that I feel was superior to a Biesemeyer with a lot less metal working capabilities. The only tricky part was figuring out the cam lock which was simply a slice of round bar stock.

[Randy Heinemann]

If It will work on your saw I would buy the Incra LS fence system. I assume it would work on your saw but don’t know that for sure so that would need to be verified. Nothing beats the Incra system as far as I’m concerned.

[Mike Kees]

I think that you are on the right track. I have looked at that fence system and think it would work great. If you work in a machine shop go for it.

[Mark Carlson]

I got the fence when it 1st came out 4 or 5 years ago. It's been great. Rock solid and easy to adjust. The aluminum extrusion fence is very versatile because of the slots. The site has videos on how to adjust, and how to fabricate your own rail. Worth checking out.

[Dan Jansen]

I built 52” rails based on the VSCT design for a DURO table saw. The plans are great, easy to follow and the steel he recommends is better than the real Bessy set up on my Powermatic 66.

To save a few nickels on the DURO project , I purchased the Grizzly Bessy clone for the fence. It was the cheapest way I could make it work although it took a little fussing since the Grizzly clone has 1/8” plastic runners. If I had to do it over again, I’d look for a used Bessy fence. Well, that’s not true, if I had to do it over again, I’d skip that project and just buy the PM 66 first.

[Lisa Starr]

Thank you for your thoughts. Right now I'm in the middle of building 2 large projects for Christmas gifts for our adult children. Once I've got those buttoned up, I think I'm going to pull the trigger and order the materials to build the Beisemeyer style rails per the VSCT website instructions. Meanwhile, I'll try to decide what to do about the actual fence.

[Tom M King]

I used the Powermatic fence with round rails for decades before I went to a Biesmeyer fence system. The one thing I miss from the PM is the fine adjuster. I still find myself reaching for it sometimes, but it's not there. If there was a replacement fence for the Bies rail with a fine adjuster, I'd probably buy it.

[phil harold]

if you love the aluminum extrusion go here
https://8020.net/catalog/category/view/s/shop/id/837/?cat=379
or on ebay too
you should be able to easily build one yourself

[Derek Arita]

My $.02...I bought the VSCT fence a few years ago and ended up returning it. What I found is that the excursion I got, was not as straight and flat as my Beis. I also found that the channels that run the length of the fence are recessed to compensate for screw compression. Because of that, some workpieces may ride in those recessed channels and make the fence scales inaccurate. For those reasons, I found the Beis to be better. That said, if you have a specific purpose for using those channels and provided you get a truly straight and flat fence, then you'll get the most from that type of fence.

[Patrick Kane]

Lisa,

I bought the fence back in 2015, I think. It is the forest green variety, and I think he paints them black now. First, the fence is much better than the biesemeyer fences I’ve used. Really quick and easy to attach different faces and jigs. My extrusion was dead flat, and is the main reason I bought the fence. Bies fence faces are garbage, atleast the 3-4 I’ve measured. I have two more in my garage I could measure and be disappointed with. I like how the VSCT fence can be position fore and aft as well.

Ok, those are the good points about the fence. The shortcomings, it was $275-299 years ago for the whole thing. Now I see it’s like $400+ out the door. Yikes. After that, there’s just no real thought in the piece. It’s an exact copy of the biesemeyer tsquare head with an aluminum fence face. There is no real improvement over the biesemeyer design. Tom brings up microsdjust that would be a great design improvement. Being able to adjust the position of the fence in a quick and toolless action would be an improvement. Unifence and euro fences do this effortless. With VSCT fence you need to take it off the rail, flip it, loosen the t nuts, reposition, tighten the nuts, and reinstall. I don’t want to sound like I’m beating on the design and product, but it feels like a product made by a dude in his garage. It lacks the sophistication and development that you would expect from a $400+ product. I wouldn’t go back to a bies head, but I would swap out for my Felder fence if it was a reasonable retrofit.

[Tom M King]

The old Powermatic round railed fence system had no slop where the head slides on the front rail. You could slide it close to where you wanted it, and push the spring loaded knob in to fine tune it to the perfect position. Once you had it where you wanted it, the front head is locked in place, with no movement, and then the back rail.

The only problem is with the locking mechanism on the back rail, there is no way to have an outfeed table without a gap for the back rail, and locking mechanism. If you let the front rail get dirty, it didn't work very easily, but that was quickly remedied by compressed air. Silicone spray kept it sliding easily.

I still use it on my PM saw, but put a Bies on the Unisaw. I don't have any complaints with my Biesmeyer fence, but it would be awfully nice to have no slop on the head when sliding it, and a fine adjuster.

Some combination of the two would be a great advance.

[Walter Plummer]

I was looking into building the rails but the cost was too high. Almost $200.00 by the time taxes are added. Around here the larger metal places are just interested in selling 20' lengths if they will sell retail at all. Metal supermarket will sell to length but you are paying convenience store pricing. I don't know where you live so maybe you can get a better price.

[David Zaret]

the fence that came with my General 650 was horrible, so i ended up replacing it years ago with a VSCT. i think it's a nice fence, great design and execution. making the front bies box rail was trivial with some inexpensive angle iron from the local metal yard, and the fence has been rock solid from day one. i think it's worth the money.

[David Ragan]

I have the VSCT fence-the T square and extruded fence.

My SS cab saw fence had gaps b/t it and the wood while ripping....disconcerting. Some experimentation confirmed bad fence.

SS sent me another melamine (?) fence.....it was not straight either.

The implication was that I tweak the straightness (concavities) of the fence by putting shims b/t the fence face and the rigid portion of the T square.

Right.

(The way that particular system works is that the fence face is bolted to the rigid part of the T square, which spans the table.......when the T square has small waves in it-those are translated to the fence face-resulting in non-straightness.)

So, I ordered VSCT system, and it has worked great; no more gaps in my ripping.

For service, Alan has been great.

The link above (8020 site) for the aluminum extrusion shows a 48" @ about $60......so about $170 or so for the T square from VSCT-I'm completely happy w it.....and every time I push a board past a completely 100% straight fence, I smile.

FWIW....later, I got the Jessem TS guides, and Life is Good.

[Nick Decker]

David, did the VSCT t-square fit directly onto the stock SS rails?

I too have the Jessem guides on my SS. Pisses me off to see those wavy gaps when I'm ripping a straight board along the SS fence. I generally like the way the SS fence works, maybe I could just re-face it with something.

[Robert Hayward]

I have looked at the VSCT fence several time but have not pulled the trigger yet. A flat face is what I want. I have a newer PM2000 with what I consider a very good OEM fence, with the exception of the fence faces and the sideways slop when locking the fence to the rail. I have tried a couple different faces on the fence both of which go out of flat all on their own. The attached picture shows how I cured the side slop. I can now move the fence to the position I want and lock it. No noticeable side movement.

[David Ragan]

David, did the VSCT t-square fit directly onto the stock SS rails?

I too have the Jessem guides on my SS. Pisses me off to see those wavy gaps when I'm ripping a straight board along the SS fence. I generally like the way the SS fence works, maybe I could just re-face it with something.

Hi Nick

Yes, I was relieved to see that the VSCT T square fit like a glove.

I coulda screwed around w shimming that SS rip fence face-but I figured over time, it would just bend more, and my few hours in the shop I want to spend differently than that.

[Nick Decker]

Thanks, David. I guess that unless what you're screwing the fence face to is flat, pretty much anything you screw to it is going to telegraph that lack of flatness onto it. I might pull the melamine off of mine tomorrow, to see what's what under there.

[Derek Arita]

From what I understand from previous threads on the subject of Beis style fence flatness, when the fence face mounting holes are drilled into the rectangular tube, the drill press deforms the surface inward, causing depressions in the face. The holes are made by a multi-bit machine, so the force is substantial. When the face is attached, the face is pulled into these depressions, causing out of flat surfaces. If you are lucky and your fence was made while the drill bits were fresh, then there would be less of a depression left behind, so the face surface would be more flat.
Too bad there isn't more care taken in that machining process.

[Nick Decker]

I have looked at the VSCT fence several time but have not pulled the trigger yet. A flat face is what I want. I have a newer PM2000 with what I consider a very good OEM fence, with the exception of the fence faces and the sideways slop when locking the fence to the rail. I have tried a couple different faces on the fence both of which go out of flat all on their own. The attached picture shows how I cured the side slop. I can now move the fence to the position I want and lock it. No noticeable side movement.

Robert, that looks like a reasonable fix for the sideways slop problem. My SawStop has some slop like that, but I'm just in the habit of pushing down on the fence handle to square things up once I get it close, then tap it into final position. I assumed that was just a Bies "feature."

I pulled the trigger and ordered the VSCT rig today, will report back once I get it installed. That probably doesn't help Lisa much, since it will apparently fit the existing rails on my saw. Drop and drag, so to speak. But I can at least give a quick review of the current state of the product.

[Lisa Starr]

I just wanted to thank everyone for their posts and let you know that I ordered the materials for making the rail system today. It will probably be Christmas when I tackle making them, as I have 2 projects to finish that are Christmas gifts and can't be without the TS right now. I expect to order the fence within the next week or so.

[Nick Decker]

To update, my fence came in yesterday and I have it installed and dialed in. Very easy to assemble the extrusion to the t-square mechanism, but I'd suggest watching the video at VSCT for several helpful tips. After that, adjusting it parallel to the miter slot and square to the table top took all of about 10 minutes. As someone mentioned earlier, it fits the SawStop T-Glide rails perfectly. (Won't fit the other "Premium" fence rails.)

The extrusion is plenty straight for me. Using a dial indicator, I see a 0002" variance over 42", well within the advertised claim of .0001" per foot.

There is one area of possible concern: The extrusion rides across the table on a small piece of UHMW that's about 1/8" thick, which means there's a 1/8" gap under the fence. Not good, if you're cutting very thin stock. You can't grind/sand the piece down, because it's held in place with a countersunk flat head screw. I've ordered a couple pieces like the SawStop uses, which are thinner and adhesive backed. For now, I've put some slick tape under that end, works fine.

In all, I'm happy with it. Allan (VSCT guy) and his wife, Sue, seem like nice people and responded quickly to a few questions I had.

[Curt Harms]

To update, my fence came in yesterday and I have it installed and dialed in. Very easy to assemble the extrusion to the t-square mechanism, but I'd suggest watching the video at VSCT for several helpful tips. After that, adjusting it parallel to the miter slot and square to the table top took all of about 10 minutes. As someone mentioned earlier, it fits the SawStop T-Glide rails perfectly. (Won't fit the other "Premium" fence rails.)

The extrusion is plenty straight for me. Using a dial indicator, I see a 0002" variance over 42", well within the advertised claim of .0001" per foot.

There is one area of possible concern: The extrusion rides across the table on a small piece of UHMW that's about 1/8" thick, which means there's a 1/8" gap under the fence. Not good, if you're cutting very thin stock. You can't grind/sand the piece down, because it's held in place with a countersunk flat head screw. I've ordered a couple pieces like the SawStop uses, which are thinner and adhesive backed. For now, I've put some slick tape under that end, works fine.

In all, I'm happy with it. Allan (VSCT guy) and his wife, Sue, seem like nice people and responded quickly to a few questions I had.

I have a Mule Cab fence which has one T slot on each surface. To fix the gap under the fence problem, I took a piece of well dried 2 X 4, made it square all 4 sides and planed to 1" thick (remember to add an inch!). I then counter bored 2 holes to be able to attach it to the T slot such that the wood subfence sits flat on the saw table, no gaps. I can use this either for a no-gap fence for thin material or short fence for ripping material that may move once cut, sort of like the Euro fences. If the material spreads more than 1" I guess I'd have a problem but so far that hasn't happened. One use for T slots on table saw fences.

[Nick Decker]

Curt, I wasn't familiar with that brand, looks similar in concept to VSCT as far as using extrusions.

VSCT sells some accessory fence faces in various heights, as well as one that's designed to sit down on the table for ripping thin material. You have to sign up to get on a waiting list, which looks to me like he only makes up a batch of them if they're pre-sold.

He uses a material by Wilsonart called Compact, which I haven't yet found a supplier of and which is probably expensive, judging by what he charges for his fence faces.

Another poster here recently mentioned his method of just attaching a thin strip of wood with double-stick tape, which sounds fine for occasional use.

[Patrick Kane]

Has anyone purchased extrusions from 80/20? How straight are they? Im curious if VSCT actually does anything to the 80/20 extrusions.... Just makes me wonder how its worth it to profit $50 when you need to mill 4 sides, and then anodize the aluminum afterwards. I could be cynical and incorrect, but im guessing hes just selling standard 40mmx80mm extrusion and then eating the imperfect ones in the chance the customer is anal enough to check. My extrusion purchased from VSCT is remarkably straight, but it does have a very slight cup across the face that is typical of 80/20. It is meant to straighten once bolted together.

If people's experience with 80/20 is positive, i think ill order a different length than what VSCT sells.

[Nick Decker]

I wondered that myself, Patrick. Don't see how he can precision mill and anodize for what he's charging. I guess the way to find out would be to buy an extrusion from 8020, measure it and compare.

[Patrick Kane]

I wondered that myself, Patrick. Don't see how he can precision mill and anodize for what he's charging. I guess the way to find out would be to buy an extrusion from 8020, measure it and compare.


I just purchased a length of 54", so ill let you know when i get it. It was like $93 shipped to my door after taxes. Im guessing its going to arrive pretty straight, with a slightly cupped face, and generally much better than any biesemeyer fence face.

[Nick Decker]

Cool, please let us know what you find out. Did you get the same profile that VSCT sells?

I wasn't aware of the slight cup on the face. Can't see how it would matter much, at least for my purposes.

[Patrick Kane]

I did get the same profile. I already have a dozen or s of the expensive tnuts. Also, if you get another profile, it would complicate connecting to the tsquare.

[Lisa Starr]

:) I'm done! Building the guide rail for the saw was easy. Although I have access to a machine shop full of tools, I didn't bother. Just the tools in my home shop were more than sufficient to get it built. The "how to" info on the VSCT site is good. My T-square and extrusion arrived the same day as I mounted the rail system to my table saw. After watching the video explaining the steps for adjusting the fence to square/parallel it took me about 10 minutes to assemble them and adjust. BTW, the stuff from VSCT was very, very well packed and has very nice finishes.

[Nick Decker]

Congrats, Lisa. Glad it worked well for you.

[Patrick Kane]

Thought i would follow up on this after i received my 80/20 extrusion(and sold my original VSCT fence). First, the VSCT fence extrusion was just about perfectly flat/straight. My Veritas straight edge and a 1.5 thousandths feeler gauge couldnt detect a flaw. I cannot say the same for the 80/20 extrusion. I forget off the top of my head(was a month or more ago), but i ordered 54"+/- length of the same extrusion profile for my powermatic 72. The first face i checked was far from perfectly flat. I couldnt detect a flaw for the first 40"+/-, but the remaining foot trailed off by about .008-.009". I assumed it got bent during transit and the reverse face would exhibit the opposite .008" flaw. Surprisingly, I checked the other face along its length and had a few areas where .0015" would slip under and .002" would bite the straight edge, but not slip under it. Im a little confused how that is, but that is the face i mounted onto the VSCT fence to register against. If i ever do work left of the blade, then i will need to consider the flaw in that face, but i have done this once in my life.

In short, i saved quite a bit of money over ordering from VSCT, and i ended up with a longer extrusion to boot. After selling my original extrusion, it netted out to very little for the upgrade. I dont know how typical my results are, but i wouldnt expect a perfectly straight extrusion from 80/20. That isnt what they do, but it does seem like you can get something pretty darn close to straight.

[Nick Decker]

Thanks for the update, Patrick.

After using my VSCT fence quite a bit, I have a few thoughts to add to my original impressions. Note: I'm commenting mostly about how it compares to the SawStop T-Glide fence.

I'm still impressed that the VSCT fence is well made and accurate. Nice and straight, without the wavyness of the plastic faces on the SS fence. The SS fence is heavier, yet it glides from one position to the next easier. Not a big deal, just feels easier to use in that regard.

The SS fence is easier to tap or nudge a few hairs into position with one hand. This is because when you let go of the locking lever on the VSCT, it drops down enough to cause some drag on the lateral movement of the fence. So you have to use two hands, one to hold up the locking lever, the other to tap or nudge. I've put a magnet on the bottom of the steel part, which holds the locking lever up, problem solved.

Bottom line, I like the VSCT better. It's straight and smooth, as well as giving you the benefit of a lot of jig-building versatility with the various slots along it.