Totally necessary Domino accessory

[William Chain]

So....

Anyone stepping up to part with a boatload of cash this accessory?397084

[Jacob Mac]

I'm not saying it isn't good, but I've never found myself wishing for a tool with that capability while using my Domino. I saw the ad for it, but it just doesn't have any appeal to me.

Maybe I'm a simpleton, but I make my marks and make my cut.

[Simon MacGowen]

Too complicated to use...totally defeats the purpose of the domino. Of course, the vendor is known to have produced solutions looking for a problem to solve.

Simon

[Rick Alexander]

I've got a friend in our local WW club (Gwinnett Woodworkers Association) that has one of these. He used it to make a fancy front porch railing (Chippendale design) using PVC. That one job paid for the Domino, the dust collector, and the jig you show. Yep - it was amazing and he earned every penny.

[Dave Sabo]

I've got a friend in our local WW club (Gwinnett Woodworkers Association) that has one of these. He used it to make a fancy front porch railing (Chippendale design) using PVC. That one job paid for the Domino, the dust collector, and the jig you show. Yep - it was amazing and he earned every penny.


So it’s perfect for all those guys making chippendale porch rails ?

Bet that’s a lot of folks.

Could have been done with a duo doweler also. I’m with Simon and Jacob on this - solution looking for a problem.

But I don’t discount the fact that a lot WP stuff is aimed at the collector , and I’ll wager a significant portion of domino 500’s are shelf queens.

[William Chain]

This thing is insane. #1 The porch rails (or anything else for that matter) could have been done with the bits and pieces that come with the domino intended for spacing the mortises (in fact one can see the built-in scale being defeated / ignored in the photos in the advertisements). #2 This ads a ridiculous heft and awkwardness to the machine. #3 $400?? Sign me right up, and throw in the $600 flattening jig they're busy pushing. Solutions looking for problems is right...


So it’s perfect for all those guys making chippendale porch rails ?

Bet that’s a lot of folks.

Could have been done with a duo doweler also. I’m with Simon and Jacob on this - solution looking for a problem.

But I don’t discount the fact that a lot WP stuff is aimed at the collector , and I’ll wager a significant portion of domino 500’s are shelf queens.

[Jacob Mac]

I've got a friend in our local WW club (Gwinnett Woodworkers Association) that has one of these. He used it to make a fancy front porch railing (Chippendale design) using PVC. That one job paid for the Domino, the dust collector, and the jig you show. Yep - it was amazing and he earned every penny.

I don't think this jig is available yet. I think it is a one time tool that hasn't shipped yet? Could be wrong.

There are similar tools out there, though. But like I said, I could be wrong.

[Van Huskey]

I don't think this jig is available yet. I think it is a one time tool that hasn't shipped yet? Could be wrong.

There are similar tools out there, though. But like I said, I could be wrong.

I don't think it is available yet or just became available, but it is going to be a permanent tool per WPs.

I took a cursory look at it when I got the email and my initial impression was I don't see the need for it. That said I remain open-minded because I bet within a month or so there will be a youtube video from someone more creative than I that shows a use or a group of uses I hadn't thought of. If that happens there may be a point in time where it strikes me as just the accessory that saves me enough time and trouble to be worth its healthy price tag. If I didn't remain open-minded about expensive tools I wouldn't own a Domino.

[William Chain]

The mindless sponsored instagram 'makers' are already flogging it with their freebie tools.


I don't think it is available yet or just became available, but it is going to be a permanent tool per WPs.

I took a cursory look at it when I got the email and my initial impression was I don't see the need for it. That said I remain open-minded because I bet within a month or so there will be a youtube video from someone more creative than I that shows a use or a group of uses I hadn't thought of. If that happens there may be a point in time where it strikes me as just the accessory that saves me enough time and trouble to be worth its healthy price tag. If I didn't remain open-minded about expensive tools I wouldn't own a Domino.

[Van Huskey]

The mindless sponsored instagram 'makers' are already flogging it with their freebie tools.for

I have seen some of them. Thus far the ones I have seen are simply the initial intended use, which I don't derive $400 of utility from. Where my money might get spent is when someone comes up with an out of the box use that I at some point find myself needing. When Paul at Half Inch Shy was still produced content he more than once found what I considered an intriguing use with Festool. I personally have no issues with the free tool "commercials" often the better creators show and describe the use of the tool better than the company does which is occasionally useful to me.

[Simon MacGowen]

I don't think this jig is available yet. I think it is a one time tool that hasn't shipped yet? Could be wrong.

There are similar tools out there, though. But like I said, I could be wrong.

What jig, the offset base? It came out in 2014 or so.

Simon

[Van Huskey]

What jig, the offset base? It came out in 2014 or so.

Simon

It has been a one-time tool before but now it is being produced as part of their "permanent" line.

[Simon MacGowen]

It has been a one-time tool before but now it is being produced as part of their "permanent" line.

The one-time tool label is a joke, because many OTTs are reproduced and re-released due to "popular demand." Endless examples can be found for this vendor. Some people do fall for it, thinking if something is one-time, it may increase in value for collectors.

Simon

[Van Huskey]

The one-time tool label is a joke, because many OTTs are reproduced and re-released due to "popular demand." Endless examples can be found for this vendor. Some people do fall for it, thinking if something is one-time, it may increase in value for collectors.

Simon

I honestly don't think anyone collects WP tools outside of someone that just buys them all thinking they may use them at some point but never does, that would be a form of collecting I suppose. They are BCTW. I also don't think many people since their first re-run see them as purely one-time tools. Some have been to this point and the popular ones have not. The Delve square has become my most used marking/measuring/setup tool, I bought it on a whim but when mine was lost (more likely permanently borrowed) it was a long hard wait for a re-run to the point of listing WTB ads and I would have been willing to pay over retail. I find the fervor around the one-time tools to be almost silly, the tools may or may not be re-run and while the value of all of them are questionable they are all quality tools and almost universally there are some that find value in them. There are almost always at least one post on at least one of the various fora where someone is essentially laughing at the value of one of them. Value like taste is difficult if not impossible to debate. Value is very personal and has a tie-in with a persons disposable income. In a hyperbolic example if one has Steve Gates money the value equation is very different from one who makes minimum wage.

Some think there is no value in the extra cost of a Sawstop while some see a Martin T75 PreX as worth every penny and they can both be right.

[Simon MacGowen]

I honestly don't think anyone collects WP tools outside of someone that just buys them all thinking they may use them at some point but never does, that would be a form of collecting I suppose.

You may not think so, but "limited edition", OTT, etc. are common marketing tricks or labels producers of all kinds of premium goods use to entice and attract sales. OTT is often taken to mean production is one-time and you won't have a second chance to get the SAME thing if you miss it. Of course, not in the case of WP's. It is a trick played on people's mind. "Limited Edition" is used a lot in the auto industry and the LE model fetches higher prices too.

I know at least two WP owners who look at some of their their OTTs as having collectors' status whether or not any WP products are for collectors is open to discussion. If one day WP is sold to a Chinese business like Bridge City, then all made in USA WP products will become collectors items.

The fact remains using the OTT label without any intention to keep it one-time is deceiving.

Simon

[Nick Decker]

Maybe deceptive, if they offer it again, but I think it's just their way of trying out a tool to see if there's enough demand. Whatever, their business model seems to work.

One thing I've noticed about the other brands they offer (Bora, Portamate, Z Saw, etc.) is that they're usually available elsewhere for less money.

[Simon MacGowen]

Maybe deceptive, if they offer it again, but I think it's just their way of trying out a tool to see if there's enough demand. Whatever, their business model seems to work.

One thing I've noticed about the other brands they offer (Bora, Portamate, Z Saw, etc.) is that they're usually available elsewhere for less money.

I disagree that "it's just their way of trying out a tool to see if there's enough demand." It is not really about trying out; if it were, then they should not use the "OTT" label. OTT is plain English and it has nothing to do with demand. Many businesses try out products or services, but I am not aware of any that attaches a "One Time" label in those cases.

But I do agree with you that it is a business model that works for them. Obviously, that is also why they keep using the deceptive labeling, even for what they know is not going to be produced one-time. Frankly, anyone in manufacturing knows some one-time setup is costly and unless you have a strong sales case, you don't fool yourself by doing just one run with a costly investment.

Simon

[Cary Falk]

They are up front about some of the tools being rereleased if demand dictates. Some stuff never sees another run, some stuff doesn't. Some stuff becomes a permanent item. I have some OTTs. I have some standard offerings. I don't base my purchase on if it is a limited run but if I will use it. I also don't concern myself with what other people do with their money. Maybe "Limited Run" or "Limited run for not but more it demand dictates"(LRFNBMIDD).


OneTIME Tool
Woodpeckers’ Program is Unique Among Manufacturers of Woodworking TOOLs.Here’s How It Works. For each new OneTIME Tool we make a few samples and photograph it. We then offer it for sale for just a few weeks. After the order window closes, we prepare for a single production run and make only enough to fill the orders. When the tools ship, we retire it from our product line.

How Can We Do This? Like virtually all our tools, OneTIME Tools are made one at a time. They are not cast in expensive molds or stamped out by the thousands. Components (often made from solid pieces of aluminum or stainless steel) are machined individually on state-of-the-art CNC equipment in our shop near Cleveland, Ohio. Although the production process may seem unusual by industry standards, it's by far the best way to release a steady flow of good tools; tools that woodworkers can use and enjoy; tools that otherwise might never be made at all.
Since 2011, we’ve produced over 75 different OneTIME Tools. You can see them below. You’ll also see in the top row the one or two tools now available for order. Check them out! If you see a retired OneTIME Tool you like click here (https://www.woodpeck.com/ottsignup) (http://www.woodpeck.com/ottsignup.html)to be notified if we do another run. If there's enough demand, we may re-run some of these tools.
Get New OneTIME Tool Notifications. Currently, a new OneTIME Toolis offered every few weeks. The best way to be informed about upcoming tools is to receive notifications by email. We call this our Eclub. Click here to get on the list. (https://www.woodpeck.com/sign-up-for-newsletter)
Let us Know??? If there's enough demand, we may re-run some of our OneTIME Tools. If you're interested, please click here (https://www.woodpeck.com/ottsignup)to leave us your comments. Thanks.

[Nick Decker]

Whatever they choose to call what they're doing, I'm happy that they're doing it. I'll buy their tools when they offer what I might need or, sometimes, when it's something that's just cool enough that I want one whether I need it or not.

[Simon MacGowen]

Woodpeckers’ Program is Unique Among Manufacturers of Woodworking TOOLs.[/h]Here’s How It Works. For each new OneTIME Tool we make a few samples and photograph it. We then offer it for sale for just a few weeks. After the order window closes, we prepare for a single production run and make only enough to fill the orders. When the tools ship, we retire it from our product line.


Let us Know??? If there's enough demand, we may re-run some of our OneTIME Tools. If you're interested, please click here (https://www.woodpeck.com/ottsignup)to leave us your comments. Thanks.
[/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]

See! It is not really one time: "If there's enough demand...."

Their words not mine (this is the first time I read their remarks). So what they really want to say is (May be) One Time Tool, or MBOTT.

In other words, "When the tools ship, we retire it from our product line." is just another joke when it comes to retiring tools. It is not really retirement, but (may be) retirement.

Imagine this: A One-time 100 Anniversary Tool can come to the market 100 times or more...if subsequent demand is there!

Simon

[Cary Falk]

And a footlong Subway sandwich is not 12". Life is full of stuff like this. I don't let it bother me.


Could be that when they trademarked the name it was their intention to only offer it one time. It has evolved and they are still rolling with it because the name stuck. They are honest in the description about what is going on. I'm ok with that

[Van Huskey]

You may not think so, but "limited edition", OTT, etc. are common marketing tricks or labels producers of all kinds of premium goods use to entice and attract sales. OTT is often taken to mean production is one-time and you won't have a second chance to get the SAME thing if you miss it. Of course, not in the case of WP's. It is a trick played on people's mind. "Limited Edition" is used a lot in the auto industry and the LE model fetches higher prices too.


Simon

If you want me to agree that the vast majority of advertising is deceiving I certainly will. If there are guys out there with rooms filled with red tools using them as asset planning for retirement I would say they should have bought Franklin Mint plates instead, at least there always will be some grandmas on eBay that will want a limited edition plate with a cute cat on it. The fine print is there for the WP OTTs if one doesn't read it so be it. The one thing I never recall seeing is a single post on any forum where someone that bought a WP OTT is actually upset they reran it. I put this in the same category as people that wouldn't buy a Sawstop because of Steve Gass perceived unethical behavior or bought an "Industrial" Sawstop thinking they were getting a real industrial level saw. Its a light weight 10" cabinet saw with a sheet steel base for gosh sake. I generally see the backlash against advertising as a quixotic quest of the highest order.

[Van Huskey]

Anyone that connects retirement with any degree of finality must never have heard of Brett Favre. But he took grief too. Oh, and I went to The Who's final concert tour in 1982! They recorded the live album Whos Last during the NA tour. I saw them again on tour in 2013.

[Peter Kuhlman]

Well I am the idiot who ordered this gizmo! I did not order the extension set as I just use pencil marks and vary the slot spacing to accommodate any errors. The reason I ordered it is due to my frustration with edge joining operations. No matter how careful I am I get too much variance in the slots and the tops are no where near flush when joined. I attended the Festool class in Ohio and had them check my unit out but they could not come up with a solution. I have the Seneca? plate and it works better but I dislike using the Domino upside down. Have been using my DowelMax for critical joining - slow but accurate. Hoping the WP unit will solve my issues as it is considerably wider and longer than the Domino fence. Yea it is a lot of money for a fence!

As to other One Time Tools some are kind of crazy! The current new tool is the multi-angle poly gauge for $99. Was looking at my new Lee Valley catalog last night and theirs is virtually identical for 1/3 the price. Yes the WP item will be impeccably finished. Another is the latest slab flattening tool starting at $699! $899 with extensions!!! Think if I ever needed to do that I would quickly assemble one out of scrap lumber. A few of the OTT hand tools have proven their worth to me. Just take the time to figure out if you will really use the toolprior to ordering.

[Randy Heinemann]

It absolutely falls into the category of an accessory to the Domino that you don't need. The Domino is a self-sufficient tool and really doesn't need many devices to assist it in doing the job for which it is designed. However, the offset base, is a great assist. The Domino is much more stable when the base is mounted on the tool, thus making it almost impossible not to keep the tool in place. So, the whole set is, for sure, a complete extravagance, but the base falls into the category of a valuable accessory for some. As for the extensions, they may have some use if you are a woodworker who works with a lot of sheet goods and needs to make slots on mass produced or repetitive projects made of plywood.

[Derek Cohen]

The only jig I have purchased for my Domino is the Domiplate from Seneca (https://www.senecawoodworking.com) ...

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0117/6212/products/IMG_2666_580x@2x.jpg?v=1354057341DOMIPLATE FOR 1/2" AND 3/4" NOMINAL PLY


Very useful it is too.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Brian Holcombe]

What’s a domino :p

[Patrick Walsh]

Brian,

It's what us hack cabinet makers call mortise and tenon.

Or it's a tool that does in seconds what takes you maybe minutes lol ;)

In all seriousness I use one all the time at work but like CNC I loath the dam thing. Just dumbing down donthing that's easy enough.

Making my boss money makes me money though. Then I get to buy things like kiyohisa's and Makas's that make the whole ordeal seem like fun again lol..

Happy thanksgiving.

[Van Huskey]

What’s a domino :p

A handheld Maka that makes more aerodynamic mortises...

[Patrick Walsh]

Can u was tempted to say the same thing but it's thanksgiving and I actually really like brian.

Not only is he talented but he is also very very and I'll add a third very nice guy.

[Van Huskey]

Can u was tempted to say the same thing but it's thanksgiving and I actually really like brian.

Not only is he talented but he is also very very and I'll add a third very nice guy.

If you can't take a poke at your friends why have friends! There is no question Brian is extremely talented and certainly a nicer guy than I. He is also well on his way to having the nicest looking and best performing mortiser around these parts.

[Brian Holcombe]

A handheld Maka that makes more aerodynamic mortises...


:D Hah! That had me rolling.

Very true, Patrick. Happy Thanksgiving to both of you!

[Simon MacGowen]

If you want me to agree that the vast majority of advertising is deceiving I certainly will.

Nope, never my intention to cast doubt on every ad or advertiser. Like anything else, some are good and some are bad. Many vendors with reputable business standards don't resort to gimmicks or misleading labeling to advance their sales targets.

Simon

[Randy Heinemann]

I think the Offset Base itself is more generally useful than the Domiplate. When mounted, I have more control over the Domino when just cutting slots. It has nothing to do with locating the slots, but just helps keep the Domino in place better. It's definitely not a necessity and I use the Domino without it mounted many times.

I'm not sure why anyone would hate the Domino. Sure it makes creating mortise and tenon joints much easier but it also allows these joints to be created in many designs that would be extremely difficult to make a regular mortise and tenon joint. I think the tool is one of those tools which opens design horizons and creativity as well as makes creating mortise and tenon joints easier in standard cabinetry and furniture. No reason to hate it or it's functionality. Just a great tool!

[Rick Potter]

I own no OTT's, but I enjoy seeing tools made that nicely, and my hope is to find some at a garage sale some day. :o

[Brian Holcombe]

I'm not sure why anyone would hate the Domino. Sure it makes creating mortise and tenon joints much easier but it also allows these joints to be created in many designs that would be extremely difficult to make a regular mortise and tenon joint. I think the tool is one of those tools which opens design horizons and creativity as well as makes creating mortise and tenon joints easier in standard cabinetry and furniture. No reason to hate it or it's functionality. Just a great tool!

I don’t hate it, instead I’m indifferent toward it. I think it’s better than pocket screws, dowels and biscuits. I don’t think it replaces traditional mortise and tenon joinery.

My issue with the domino was that it works off a centerline for layout. My grievance with this is the tendency to let the parts have space at their shoulders for alignment and so removing the abutments which help the joint to work less and reduce reliance upon glue strength.

When parts are aligned by shoulders and abutments they are inherently fit more precisely.

[Simon MacGowen]

I'm not sure why anyone would hate the Domino. Sure it makes creating mortise and tenon joints much easier but it also allows these joints to be created in many designs that would be extremely difficult to make a regular mortise and tenon joint. I think the tool is one of those tools which opens design horizons and creativity as well as makes creating mortise and tenon joints easier in standard cabinetry and furniture. No reason to hate it or it's functionality. Just a great tool!

The Domino joiner is a tool simple in concept, but sophisticated and complex in its use unless one uses it only for alignment purposes -- which also means only 10% of the functionality of the tool is used. The complexity means the rate of user errors is high, and hence the tool is misunderstood and disliked by those who were never past the learning curve stage. I have known cabinetmakers who sold their Domino Joiner and others who complained about the high price and low usage. Now and then you see it and its bigger brother sold in the vendor-sponsored tool forum, almost as soon as they are listed. I once almost got tempted to get a second XL (C-L-ed), just to resell it for a profit.

This is a tool not in the same class as a dowel jig or pocket screw jig or the like. The learning curve for advanced joinery is quite steep, and those who overcome the learning experience will find the expensive toy a godsend. The domino joiner deals with angled joinery like no other machines (yes, you can do that with a router and shop-made jigs as people used to do before the invention of the domino), and that is where I believe lies the true value of the domino joiner.

This is an animal waiting to be tamed for those who have had little experience with it.

Simon

[Patrick Walsh]

I guess is see your point but as you said people did all kinds of stuff with routers and jobs before it came along. I don’t really see a steep learning curve. I suppose if you just look at it and see a tool that makes 90% mortise then sure. But if that’s the case chances are you also only see 90% when you approach your own work. Let’s face it 90% of what most people are building is indeed comprised of 90% joints.

I am actually one of the ones that sold my domino as I also have a slot mortiser and air clamps. I just make angles jigs for it and can do the same thing with it I can do with the domino. Oh and we have a domino at work so if I do decide it’s the best approach of attack I just borrow it.

But you know I’m not even close to enamered by it. If I’m doing something like angles like you speak of chances are I’m building something for myself and much prefer the above mentioned meathods or just full on hand tools. Now if I was making all those angled joints for money or on the clock I sure as hell would be reaching for the domino.

The longer I have been Woodworking the less impressed I am with festool anything. Dust collectors and sanders are great. Track saw also great. Domino ok and for those looking for a inexpensive fast way to make floating tennons I guess it’s also decent. It’s no where even close to being as acccurate a joinery payed out with a marking gauge then bored close tomth3 lines and paired to a perfect fit.


The Domino joiner is a tool simple in concept, but sophisticated and complex in its use unless one uses it only for alignment purposes -- which also means only 10% of the functionality of the tool is used. The complexity means the rate of user errors is high, and hence the tool is misunderstood and disliked by those who were never past the learning curve stage. I have known cabinetmakers who sold their Domino Joiner and others who complained about the high price and low usage. Now and then you see it and its bigger brother sold in the tool forum, almost as soon as they are listed. I almost got tempted to get a second XL (C-L-ed), just to resell it for a profit.

This is a tool not in the same class as a dowel jig or pocket screw jig or the like. The learning curve for advanced joinery is quite steep, and those who overcome the learning experience will find the expensive toy a godsend. The domino joiner deals with angled joinery like no other machines (yes, you can do that with a router and shop-made jigs as people used to do before the invention of the domino), and that is where I believe lies the true value of the domino joiner.

This is an animal waiting to be tamed for those who have had little experience with it.

Simon

[Simon MacGowen]

I guess is see your point but as you said people did all kinds of stuff with routers and jobs before it came along. I don’t really see a steep learning curve. I suppose if you just look at it and see a tool that makes 90% mortise then sure. But if that’s the case chances are you also only see 90% when you approach your own work. Let’s face it 90% of what most people are building is indeed comprised of 90% joints.



I was being brief; when I said steep curve, I was not just referring to learning how to use the domino to do basic functions, like those given out in its manual. The curve is steep when one tries to use the tool to do tasks that are well beyond the standard alignment or loose tenon jobs.

If the domino joiner is as simple and easy as it looks to use, we would not see so many after-market accessories introduced, targeting at users who want to make their "domino" life easier. None of them is considered necessary by me (except the smaller bits for use with an XL), but I welcome them as aids for those who want them.

Simon