For those who repaint

[Patrick Kane]

How perfect does the surface need to be prepped before painting? I have a 72 cabinet im going to repaint, and i would rather not spend the time stripping the entire cabinet if i dont have to. There is flaking and rust at the base that i plan on taking a wirewheel to and cleaning up. Most threads i see guys completely sandblasting the tool, wetsanding it, priming it, and then applying paint. Last night i even found one on OWWM where someone polished a PM45 to a mirror finish. Ive never sprayed paint out of my HVLP setup, and i dont expect automotive level results. I just want it to be respectable looking. At some point it will be whacked by a cart, or a board, or something else that will ding it. Any tips on prepping before paint? I have a FUji 4 stage turbine, but ive only ever sprayed clear finishes out of it. I imagine it can handle paint with minimal thinning.

[johnny means]

Every shop I've ever painted machinery in just cleaned them lightly wire brushed before rolling and brushing on an industrial type oil based enamel.

[Don Jarvie]

I’ve used a course wire wheel on a grinder then course sandpaper on the grinder. It will get a lot of the paint off. When I redid my 74 PM 66 I got the paint off, washed with Super-clean and primed the cabinet. You can give it a quick wet sand.

I recommend auto paint. It’s easy to spray and gives a nice finish. The paint has a reducer in it and dries fast. The key is applying a hardner after you paint. The hardner will keep it from chipping. You can add the hardner to the paint or get some cans. The issue with the hardner in the paint is it’s only good for a day or two. No need to sand once you paint.

[Wayne Lomman]

For what you have there, power wire brushing and grinding/sanding to get rid of loose and flaking rust and loose paint will be OK. Sand the existing paint and feather the edges so you don't have a sharp step at the transition from paint to bare steel. Use a zinc phosphate pigmented or similar primer and a compatible top coat. Auto products are good but so are straight industrial paints. Hammer finish paints survive well on machinery like this. I can't tell you exactly what to buy as you have different products available unless you are in Australia too.

Things to avoid:

Wet sanding on bare steel. It is counterproductive when you are trying to prevent rust. You get water in gaps where it can't easily get out and the steel is going rusty before your eyes. Just don't do it. Auto guys don't seem to worry about it but they are focused on standard of finish above other considerations. I spend my time focused on corrosion protection first.

Overly fine finishing during surface preparation. Paint needs a mechanically keyed surface to hang onto. Finish your surface preparation with sharp abrasive so that you have a surface you can file your finger nails on. Not too coarse though or it will suck up too much paint. Sharp 120 grit is as far as you need to go.

Burnished surface. This leave nothing for the paint to hang onto. Its a total waste of effort and the earth's resources. Going too heavy with the power wire brush will burnish the steel as will fine sanding.

I said a bit more about painting metal in the Metalworking forum. Its only about 5 topics from the top. Cheers

[Patrick Kane]

Great, glad to hear this is universally acceptable and I’m not being lazy. When you guys wire brushed your machines, did you use brass or steel? I only have brass, which I’ve used to clean off rust off surfaces nicely. Not sure if brass is stout enough.

I was was just going to go to Sherwin Williams with the paint code off OWWM and buy whatever they suggest.

[Richard Coers]

Any paint job is only as good as the prep. Golden rule of finishing. If you don't want to spend a lot of time prepping, why paint at all? It just going to be whacked by something anyway.

[Jim Becker]

Really clean and oil free combined with a surface abraded for good adhesion should be just fine. Best to prime any areas that you did have to take to bare metal.

[Jeff Duncan]

Auto paints are nice.... but pricey! I spent way too much painting a shaper with them several years ago, but felt it was worth it for the finish I wanted. I used a 3 stage Fuji to spray and had no problems. But the paint I used was a pretty thin viscosity. You have to be careful as some industrial finishes may be higher viscosities which may need a lot of thinning to spray through the turbine. Hopefully the guys at SW can help you there.

As far as prep I removed all the loose paint and sanded whatever was left until I got it reasonable clean. Going down to bare metal is great if you can do it, but certainly not necessary. You just need to have a good intact surface to paint.

good luck,
JeffD

[johnny means]

Any paint job is only as good as the prep. Golden rule of finishing. If you don't want to spend a lot of time prepping, why paint at all? It just going to be whacked by something anyway.

Paint in a shop is often not about looking pretty.

[Patrick Kane]

Yeah, I want to clean up the rust and paint over the whole thing to prevent further rust. Aesthetics is a secondary motivator. Although, I’m trying to class the joint up a bit, so I’d like the saw to look halfway decent. I was mostly asking if I had to strip every last bit of the original paint off before repainting. Sounds like I need to strip and sand the lower 1/4 down to bare metal. The rest I was hoping to give a light orbital sanding before priming.

[Matt Day]

I’d strip it with an angle grinder with a Norton Rapid Strip wheel. Those things are by far the best IMO at stripping flat surfaces. You’ll need a wire wheel (steel not brass) for places like where the plinth meets the cabinet since that’s tough for the disc to get into.

Strip paint/rust, apply a degreased like super clean, then paint. This won’t win any contests because you skipped bondo work, but it will still look good and prevent rust.

Would be a good idea to also strip rust on and paint the inside too. I painted the inside of my Uni white to make it easier to see in there.

[William Batdorf]

I agree with the Sherwin Williams approach. Check out their line of metal shop finishes. Much less expensive than automotive paints. A full line of primers and colors geared toward metal fabricators. I've used the product numerous times with very good results. The product thins with xylene and it's very forgiving to less than perfect thinning proportions. I use a Sharpe Finex 3000 HVLP gun and it gives very good results.

[Bill Dufour]

No need to remove all the paint. If the existing paint is sticking on and hard to remove just sand it to feather the edges then paint over it. I think the tractor supply paint is fine in a shop. I thin with coleman fuel. In California we have to thin with double the recommended thinner. If you can wait a week or more after painting to let it harden.
I have mixed TS paint to get the color I wanted. Use some fast food spoons and mix like two spoons of green to one spoon of gray to see what you get. Once you get the ratio right I use a dixie cup to scoop it out of the cans and measure the ratio.
Bil lD.

[Bill Dufour]

No idea where you live but the northern hemisphere is going into winter and cooler temperatures will mean paint takes longer to dry. If you do this inside be careful as the vapors can be flammable and bad to breathe.
Bill D

[Jim Becker]

There is also the option of using "tractor" paint...and just brushing it on. It applies easily, levels nicely (it's oil based) and looks nice when done.

[Robert Engel]

Degree of finish is up to you. Minimum is strong wire brushing and rust treatment.

If there is pitting, some people apply bondo like auto body work and sand for a totally smooth surface, but IMO that's overkill for something like this.

Be sure you do that rust inhibitor treatment before painting. Don't rely on the primer to prevent rust.

[Patrick Kane]

Matt, that is really good info for the specific equipment and step by step. I appreciate it.

Correct, this weekend is looking like it will be 50. I dont have the specific paint in front of me, so i dont know what the manufacturer recommends, but just about every paint ive ever seen recommends temps above 50°. I think with oil based you can even go down closer to 40°. It will take longer, but it should cure. I was going to strip it and do the prep work in the garage, but wheel it into my basement shop to sit overnight. That will bring the cabinet up to around 60-65° prior to wheeling it back into the garage to spray with the door open. After it exhausts a bit, i will close the door and turn on a little electric radiant heater i use sometimes for when im spraying waterbournes and its cold. I'll be spraying a sapele island this weekend too, so ill need to run the heater at some point to prevent an orange peel surface. It would be awesome to spray this outside, but im afraid my mild weather days are few and far between for the next three months. Once i reassemble the saw in the basement and start using it, I will never go through the hassle of breaking it down to paint it in the spring. Especially with that big CI extension wing in place.

Yes, i did plan on painting the lower half of the interior cabinet. I noticed there is rust on the inner ledge where sawdust has sat.

Completely unrelated to painting, but does it make sense that the arbor bearings are $50+ a piece? For my unisaw, a chinese bearing was like $2.50 a piece, and i went with a USA make for close to $12-15 a bearing. I get this machine uses a bigger bearing, but $100 to redo the arbor seems steep.

[Bill Dufour]

Bearing should be less then half that unless they are some weird inch bearing. They are not precision bearings. What are the bearing numbers? buy sealed not shielded.
Bill

[Patrick Kane]

Bearing should be less then half that unless they are some weird inch bearing. They are not precision bearings. What are the bearing numbers? buy sealed not shielded.
Bill

By Fafnir and have W205PP stamped on the inner raceway.

[Carl Beckett]

No need to remove all the paint. If the existing paint is sticking on and hard to remove just sand it to feather the edges then paint over it. I think the tractor supply paint is fine in a shop.


+1 imo

I restore old tractors
I have painted automobiles
Also painted machinery, including natural gas compressor station equipment as well as machinist equipment

They are all different animals, and imo the closest is the tractor approach (although I have used automotive paint on 'show' tractors). I do not believe in always stripping the paint to bare metal. If the factory paint is solid and not flaking/bubbling, you likely wont get better adhesion and durability than what is there. Agree about not burnishing.

For corrosion the 2 part epoxy primers are pretty good. I do sometimes use a phosphate treatment on the bare metal. Other times I just shoot primer on it.

This is an indoor item, so you dont really need it to hold up sitting outside in the weather.

I would recommend a wire wheel (steel) to get rid of rusty flakes. Then sand it with a power sander of some type - 80 grit then 150 grit. Then a roll on or spray on top coat (tractor paint is often pretty good). Use a hardner if available. Imron paint has a good rep. Valspar also. Search the tractor sites, lots of good info there. Rollers leave a surprisingly decent finish. And I think if you are going to all this effort you DO want it to look decent!

[Bill Dufour]

vxb $18 each for those bearings. VXB bearings seem to be decent quality.
Bill D.

[lowell holmes]

You might try sanding it with a pad sander. You might not have to take all the paint off. I would try it on a back side so that if it did not turn out the way you want, nothing is lost.

[Jeff Duncan]

Completely unrelated to painting, but does it make sense that the arbor bearings are $50+ a piece? For my unisaw, a chinese bearing was like $2.50 a piece, and i went with a USA make for close to $12-15 a bearing. I get this machine uses a bigger bearing, but $100 to redo the arbor seems steep.

Bigger and better bearings can get expensive quick! Don't know about your specific bearings, but you can easily shell out $600 plus to replace the bearings in a heavy shaper.... so all relative;)

I'd check around several places to compare prices, then you'll have a better idea.

good luck,
JeffD

[Patrick Kane]

Yeah, I guess I’m getting a lesson in that regard! I called every bearing warehouse today and ended up with a pair of Timken’s for $75. A bit better than the online prices were leading me to believe. I fear for the day I need to replace a proper set of precision bearings.

Have the lower band/plinth cleaned up to bare metal with the brass wire brush I have. This actually wouldn’t be that awful to strip the whole thing down to bare metal if I wanted to. Especially so if I had a proper wheel for my grinder. I imagine steel bristles would eat through paint and rust like a pit bull through chuck roast.

[Jeff Heath]

You'll get out of your paint job/restoration what you put into it. Depends on what you're after.

Here's the same machine, I restored 8 years ago.

Before:


397162

After soda blasting:

397163

After primer and SW acrylic epoxy

397164

Could be just the way I am, but if I'm going to go to all the effort to restore a machine, I just do it complete.

Just in case, here's the SW paint code:

397165

[Patrick Kane]

Jeff,

interested in in your hand wheel handle swap. That is exactly what I was thinking of doing with mine. I have a broken off pin in the one and a bent handle on the other. I was going to drill out the embedded pin and tap it for a similar handle. Where did you source them?

despite what everyone said, the primer went on perfectly. I brushed and sanded all the rust off the bottom, but only pad sanded the rest of the cabinet. It’s only the primer, but I love the look of it already. I actually don’t know how much better I would want or expect, and I’m glad I didn’t go through the hassle or expense of sandblasting or completely stripping the cabinet. I’m still a little blown away by how perfect the coat went on. Can’t stress how awful it is to clean the cup and gun after spraying this oil enamel. Excited to spray the top coat in another day or two.

[Jeff Heath]

I bought a bunch of those handles at an OWWM swap meet years ago. They are available online, though. These were threaded in, and I drilled and tapped the handles. I do not like the handles that came with the saw, which is why I replaced them.

[Patrick Kane]

And here we are with the almost finished product. I need to drill and tap the hand wheels for metal handles, and then assemble everything inside. Oh, getting the motor back from the local shop and a VFD from Jack would help too. But, all painting is done. Overall, for anyone that reads this in the future, I didn’t do much surface prep and this turned out very well. My surface finish has a very minor texture to it, but I think that is more a factor of not sanding the primer, spraying in 40s air temp, and maybe not thinning the enamel enough for my 4 stage Fuji. This is nit picking though. For me, it’s a tool, and this finish is probably equal or better than what came from the factory. Polished the hand wheel rims up on the lathe at 800 grit. 397338

[Jim Becker]

That looks REALLY good, Patrick!

[Patrick Walsh]

Looks good to me.

Like the green.

[Patrick Kane]

Exceeded expectations, for sure. Id bet jeff’s Paint job is better, but for the effort I put in this is really good. I spent 20-30 mins brushing and sanding the cabinet and then $40 at Sherwin Williams. Other than cleaning the gun, the whole process was dead simple and fast. If I can get these results ANYONE can.

[Darcy Warner]

Yeah, I guess I’m getting a lesson in that regard! I called every bearing warehouse today and ended up with a pair of Timken’s for $75. A bit better than the online prices were leading me to believe. I fear for the day I need to replace a proper set of precision bearings.

Have the lower band/plinth cleaned up to bare metal with the brass wire brush I have. This actually wouldn’t be that awful to strip the whole thing down to bare metal if I wanted to. Especially so if I had a proper wheel for my grinder. I imagine steel bristles would eat through paint and rust like a pit bull through chuck roast.

1200 bucks for high speed shaper bearings, bearings for the top head of my whitney 970 are 2500 for a pair of paired duplex bearings.

[Patrick Kane]

I’m 30, and don’t expect my thirst for machines to let up, so I’m sure I’m going to get to experience that bill one day. Gonna need a drink afterwards.

Those bearings for the planer probably last 50+ years, right? Assuming you continually lubricate them.

[Darcy Warner]

I’m 30, and don’t expect my thirst for machines to let up, so I’m sure I’m going to get to experience that bill one day. Gonna need a drink afterwards.

Those bearings for the planer probably last 50+ years, right? Assuming you continually lubricate them.

They still sound great, planer was built in 73, from what I saw they are still the original ones. Just keep some oil in it and they will outlast me.

[Jeff Heath]

Looks really good. Just an FYI, I can't tell for sure, but it looks like you got some paint on the trunnions. If so, make sure you scrape that off before you put your top back on. It'll make tilting the blade a real PITA if you don't.

[Patrick Kane]

I did get a little overspray on the trunnions. I didnt think to tape those off like i did the openings for the bevel/height adjustment, and motor cover. Thankfully, i had already lubed everything down with lithium spray while i was playing with it on day one, so the overspray came right off the machined surface. Good note for future noob sprayers like myself is to just tape off everything.

Hopefully have the motor back from the shop this week along with he VFD. I want to move this thing into place and run it.

[Tom M King]

It looks nicer than anything I've ever used, including the day I unboxed a new 62, the last new saw I ever bought.

[Brent Malwicks]

Prepping is a very important part of any paint job, so you may have to consider doing that quite extensively using sandpaper until it looks perfect. Just do this and you should be fine. You can also choose to sand lightly and add a bonding primer which gives you the ability to repaint faster and more easily.

[Joe Calhoon]

After primer and SW acrylic epoxy



Could be just the way I am, but if I'm going to go to all the effort to restore a machine, I just do it complete.

Just in case, here's the SW paint code:

Jeff, curious about the SW precat epoxy. Does it harden up quickly? Easy to spray? I have been using their metal finishing enamel, Ultra deep base.
I finally had success spraying it after many trials. It takes forever to harden though.
Joe

[Patrick Walsh]

I agree with joe.

Pretty much with anything if I do if it takes any amount of my time I’m gonna domth4 best job I can. That does not always mean the finished product is tht nice lol but I always try.

I figure why take something completely apart then get lazy and or later have a area rust, rot or whatever then wish I had just Dottie’s all my I’s and crossed all my t’s.

So what are people spraying when they do full high restorations of machinery?


After primer and SW acrylic epoxy



Could be just the way I am, but if I'm going to go to all the effort to restore a machine, I just do it complete.

Just in case, here's the SW paint code:

Jeff, curious about the SW precat epoxy. Does it harden up quickly? Easy to spray? I have been using their metal finishing enamel, Ultra deep base.
I finally had success spraying it after many trials. It takes forever to harden though.
Joe

[Jeff Heath]

After primer and SW acrylic epoxy



Could be just the way I am, but if I'm going to go to all the effort to restore a machine, I just do it complete.

Just in case, here's the SW paint code:

Jeff, curious about the SW precat epoxy. Does it harden up quickly? Easy to spray? I have been using their metal finishing enamel, Ultra deep base.
I finally had success spraying it after many trials. It takes forever to harden though.
Joe

Joe

I agree with you all the way. Too much time and effort is put into a full restoration, so while I'm there, I try to put my best foot forward on paint. I let one machine slide, about 7 years ago, and was pissed at myself afterward for leaving it as-is. I'm not passing judgement on anyone else's process, but mine is to take the machine down to bare metal, body filler and smooth out the rough spots (I use Rage), and primer and paint.

The SW acrylic epoxy sprays very well. I've sprayed it with my HVLP turbine gun, with a 1.5 mm and 2.00 mm tip, and I have also sprayed it with my hvlp conversion gun. The 2 mm tip sprays easier, but also leaves more orange peel. For an industrial machine, it's not a big deal. With the conversion gun, I can crank up the pressure a little and get it to spray really well.

I like the paint a lot. It hardens very nicely, and none of my machines has chipped or flaked. I am not hard on my machines, though. I'm the only person working in my shop, as I'm a one man band. I don't bang into my machines with a pallet jack or lumber cart, so I can't compare it to a rougher life somewhere where abuse is common. I think it's a great, durable paint, and being water based, clean up is a breeze. I like that A LOT!

Jeff

[Joe Calhoon]

Thanks Jeff, I like that it is water base, the SW metal finishing enamel is nasty material. I consider myself a good wood finisher but the metal finishing has sure been a challenge to me. On my full restorations so far my paint finish is OK but less than top notch. Working on it though. Just finished a Festo Feeder for my T23 yesterday and my best effort so far.

Full restoration is a ton of work and I feel once you start you have to go all the way. I enjoy it but it sure takes a lot of time away from woodwork. I don’t know if I have many more in me and would have been bad business wise early in my career. I have a Hema bandsaw, Wadkin mortiser and Oliver OSS in the restoration lineup next but they are all in good condition and functioning well so it may not happen.

I also like to take care of my machines even when I had a crew. No bumping with lumber and carts.

[David Kumm]

Mainly on metal working machines but also on a few others, I will top off the paint with a few cans of Spraymax clearcoat. It is made to touch up autos and a two part that even acetone won't dissolve. There is plunger in the bottom of the can. Once depressed you have about 24 hours to use up the can. There is no solvent that will attack it. Dave

[Bill Dufour]

I like to use aluminum foil to mask weird shaped parts on machines. Pushes in tight and easy pushed out of the way, and stays there, so you can paint behind that part.

[Jeff Heath]

Thanks Jeff, I like that it is water base, the SW metal finishing enamel is nasty material. I consider myself a good wood finisher but the metal finishing has sure been a challenge to me. On my full restorations so far my paint finish is OK but less than top notch. Working on it though. Just finished a Festo Feeder for my T23 yesterday and my best effort so far.

Full restoration is a ton of work and I feel once you start you have to go all the way. I enjoy it but it sure takes a lot of time away from woodwork. I don’t know if I have many more in me and would have been bad business wise early in my career. I have a Hema bandsaw, Wadkin mortiser and Oliver OSS in the restoration lineup next but they are all in good condition and functioning well so it may not happen.

I also like to take care of my machines even when I had a crew. No bumping with lumber and carts.

I hear you, Joe. I've completed 47 restorations, and the Y30 snowflake makes 48. I'm pretty well toasty right now, and will be taking a break from restoring machines for a little while when it's finished. I have eased into a semi-retired state with the furniture shop, and am presently not taking on any more commissions, preferring to work on my own projects right now. The kids are all moved out and I have a big, empty house and smallish shop. I'm getting it ready for sale, and I'm gonna build a small house and a biggish shop! Just the way it should be....:D.

I've got 9 more machines in the rathole waiting on a restoration, and I'm not sure if I'm going to get to them all. A couple are upgrades to smaller capacity machines currently being used in my shop, and the rest will end up getting passed on to fund my growing obsession with metalworking. Everybody's gotta have a hobby.....