Wooden Aircraft Propeller Factory Tour

[John McClanahan]

I found this on YouTube. At first, I passed it up due to the eye candy in the thumbnail. Then I decided to take a look. Sure glad I did! It's even in my state. Prepare to be surprised!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHXlhJlPqKg

[Doug Garson]

Yes I too passed on it originally for the same reason and was pleasantly surprised when I watched it. Really chuckled when "gramma" was chipping off the excess glue with her lap dog in her other arm.

[Mike Kees]

That is one really interesting video. Cool process , how wooden props are made.

[Larry Edgerton]

Thanks John. By the way I think I am in love!

[Van Huskey]

By the way I think I am in love!

I was as well until I saw her faux pas with the bandsaw guides... :)

Thanks John, you might consider posting it in the video sticky thread: https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?253300-A-thread-to-post-your-favorite-WWing-videos

Also if you click on the movie film icon (beside the picture icon) you can post the video directly, like this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHXlhJlPqKg

[Michael Costa]

I saw a video of someone using a carving repeater to duplicate a propeller. It was kind of cool.

[Tom M King]

I tried to find prices for those propellers, but didn't have a lot of luck. The closest I came was their price list, which just goes by hub sizes for Lycoming, and Continental engines, as well as a few other categories. Looks like one of the ones she's working on in the video would be $865, which seems pretty cheap for the amount of work, but she doesn't have employees to pay. I was impressed though.

[John Sincerbeaux]

I am thinking she could really benefit from a CNC setup?

[Tom M King]

I was thinking the same thing.

[Martin Wasner]

I am thinking she could really benefit from a CNC setup?

That duplicator isn't much slower, and a five or six axis aggregate head and machine would be $200,000+

That's no simple cnc task. At best you'd save a little bit of time sanding.

[Tom M King]

Plus, that one's already paid for.

[Jacob Reverb]

I'm thinking she could really benefit from lowering the guard on her bandsaw so she doesn't take an arm (or torso) off.

[Jerry Wright]

A cover photo of Sam Maloof using a bandsaw drew similar concerns. Note that on two lane highways we come within 5 feet of disaster every time we meet a car.:)

[Jacob Reverb]

Dunno...seems like for those who have 19 splitters, anti-kickback pawls, guards, shields, vacuum shrouds and Safe Space protectors on their table saws (which in my view do more harm than good by blinding you) this oughta be a no-brainer...lots of potential harm (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk98XND8ZP0) for someone cutting long pieces with lots of scraps and trash on the floor to trip over ... and no reward that I can see to make the risk worthwhile.

Plus, I'm guessing that comparing our intrepid propeller maker gal with Sam Maloof is akin to comparing me to Michael Schumacher behind the wheel. Apples and aardvaarks.

On the other hand, since we somehow avert disaster every time we pass a car on the highway, why not eliminate all guards, seat belts, airbags, yada yada? To each their own...

[Brad Shipton]

That was an interesting video. I had no idea it was a low tech operation, but after watching I don't think you could beat the speed/simplicity of the duplicator setup. The biggest cost to that operation is the press to generate 75psi clamp force. I talked to a friend who owns and maintains a small plane and he mentioned that each step of the manufacturing must be approved and listed in the certification process. These props start at around $5k and go up from there.

[Martin Wasner]

The safety crowd makes my insides sad.

[Van Huskey]

The safety crowd makes my insides sad.

Well, I started it. I am pretty far from being a safety nazi but the guides all the way up on a bandsaw, when it seems they only cut ~ 3/4" stock, just seems to be tempting fate a little too much with no increase in speed or convenience. In the shop in question, grandma could trip and launch little Rover right through the blade...

[Darcy Warner]

The safety crowd makes my insides sad.

They would all have a heart attack and die if they saw the things I do.

[Darcy Warner]

Well, I started it. I am pretty far from being a safety nazi but the guides all the way up on a bandsaw, when it seems they only cut ~ 3/4" stock, just seems to be tempting fate a little too much with no increase in speed or convenience. In the shop in question, grandma could trip and launch little Rover right through the blade...

Even with my guides down, there is still 10" of exposed blade above that, mostly because I am too lazy to make a new little piece of wood that oliver put there originally. I have it laying right by the saw too. Lol

[Martin Wasner]

They would all have a heart attack and die if they saw the things I do.

Really, almost any professional. This is an example of it. We do things differently, understand the risks better. I'm sure there's things that you do that would make me squeamish and the other way around.

I had a dude working for me that literally ran away doing something on a shaper that I had done hundreds of times with zero issue. Everybody has their comfort level. But to question somebody who's comfortable with what they do and really not risking themselves at all, is weird to me.

I saw the same thing with the bandsaw as Van. Not my bag, and I carry the guides as low as they'll go typically. But, I also noticed her body language, hand placement, and what she was actually doing. Didn't seem that off to me. I'm a long ways from a bandsaw guru too. We just don't use it much.

I think it's; "I'm safer than you, therefore superior", and that just isn't true. Typically, some people just do stupid things....

[Tom M King]

I had two older guys (over ten years younger than I am now) working for me back in the '80's. The only time we ever came close to having "words" was when I told them they had to use the guard on the jointer. They really, really didn't want to, and said that they never had. They did decide to keep working for me, and used the guard from then on though.

[Darcy Warner]

I had two older guys (over ten years younger than I am now) working for me back in the '80's. The only time we ever came close to having "words" was when I told them they had to use the guard on the jointer. They really, really didn't want to, and said that they never had. They did decide to keep working for me, and used the guard from then on though.

No guard on my 30" half the time it's off my 12"

[John McClanahan]

The bandsaw in the video probably never gets the blade guide changed. If the guide was brought down, she would probably cut a thumb off! :eek::D:D

[Van Huskey]

I saw the same thing with the bandsaw as Van. Not my bag, and I carry the guides as low as they'll go typically. But, I also noticed her body language, hand placement, and what she was actually doing. Didn't seem that off to me. I'm a long ways from a bandsaw guru too. We just don't use it much.


She was fine, I just couldn't help but notice it and comment, again mainly because I saw zero advantage to leaving them up based on what she used the saw for. Out of all the machines in a shop I am most proficient with a bandsaw probably because I have spent more time with them than any other machine. However, the most intimidated I have ever been was staring at 24" of unguarded blade preparing to cut veneer out of a 22" tall piece of walnut burl. It took me two days to work up the confidence and jigs to start hand feeding that chunk partly because I didn't want to ruin the wood and partly because I didn't want to ruin my body.

All this said the really scary bandsaw users are meat and fish cutters in production facilities. They run with the guards all the way up and move at a pace that is near inhuman. Like pages out of Sinclair's The Jungle I can't help but wonder why I don't find more fingers in my fish, guess they just use those batches in the fish stix.

[Jacob Reverb]

I think it's; "I'm safer than you, therefore superior", and that just isn't true.

On the other side of the coin, I think there's also the "I'm a salty sailor who's been plying the seas since before Sinbad, and safety gear is for sissies, arrrggghhhh!" pirate poseur thing going on, sometimes.

My brother used to run a RAS without a guard. How he never lost an arm is a mystery to me...

[Martin Wasner]

My brother used to run a RAS without a guard. How he never lost an arm is a mystery to me...


He didn't get cut by the blade seems like the answer? At least that's what I'd bet on.

[Mike Kees]

For me my shaper is the machine that I pay attention to the most. This is one that I am learning on my own, with years of router table use my only experiece before I bought my first shaper. Lately I have been on a shaper tooling binge and as I discover more and more ways to use this machine it is becoming a shop favorite quickly.My method is to think through what I am doing and setup then ask "What could go wrong ?'' I have learned a lot from books and some youtube. Also from reading everything you guys put on this forum. Not a safety Nazi but do intend to work safely and die with all my digits still intact.Mike.

[Warren Lake]

labeling a machine is not as relevant as it used to be. The shaper was more dangerous as older tooling generations were more dangerous. They taught us on serrated and that was already better than slip edge. night and day but no guarantee. The old guy said one shaper operator quit at one big shop for something safer and that was to become a cop. Back then it likely was safer, these days at least last time a cop was shot id say not so much so. In that case he was walking past a car with tinted windows and a guy shot him through the window. Cop had no warning. Lucky he had a vest and think released later in the day. Guy in the car not so lucky after that. The shop the old guy mentioned had two guys that worked in their own isolated room big room to lay out windows on the floor as some were so large. He said some knives were massive to make huge coves. New tooling makes them safer, now they wont throw things at you. Then the anti kick back stuff. Never found them to be that nasty, you set up right and they were not so inclined to do that. Ive been in places twice when that happened. One a student, one a guy with his masters papers, apparently they arent that much help when you are an alchoholic. He had a love hate thing with that machine.

I only saw a minimum of that video and will watch it sometime. The blade guides are number one blade guides and should be set near the work to do their job, thats one of the first things they teach you on bandsaw set up. support the blade near the work. Put the guides where they are supposed to be the blade cuts more accurate and it takes care of safety aspect.

[Nick Decker]

It's possible she just doesn't know the advantages of keeping the guides close to the stock.

[Zachary Hoyt]

On some of the bigger props she would need the guide up pretty high to do the angled cut up near the hub. I looked at the safety label on my Jet bandsaw tonight and it didn't say "do not carry a dog in one hand while operating this saw" but it seems to me it would be a good thing to add, just in case. It looks to me like she is very experienced with the bandsaw and has methods that work for her. I like to have my guides pretty close, personally.
Zach

[Darcy Warner]

It's possible she just doesn't know the advantages of keeping the guides close to the stock.

A well tuned and tensioned saw doesn't even need the guides. Many times I have raised the guide post all the way up and pulled the guide off to make a cut.

Pretty well know chair guy does this all the time with his Y36.

[Warren Lake]

ike all this stuff it depends what you are doing, Done tons of cutting of stuff for template work, smaller blades for radius work over the line before a shaper or routers no guide there is peeing in the wind.

[Martin Wasner]

For me my shaper is the machine that I pay attention to the most.


We powerfeed, or have clamping jigs to hold everything. Sure, safety is part of it, but garbage coming out the other side doesn't do anyone any good. I've shoved a lot of stuff through a shaper by hand, but you can't beat a powerfeeder for consistency in cut quality, (assuming feed rate and chip load are correct).

There's a lot of sketchy stuff I wouldn't run by hand through a shaper either.


The one tool that freaks me a bit is the jointer. Guard or not, I just don't care for them, even though I use one almost daily and have never been hurt by one. The only tool to earn me stitches was a bandsaw. Shredded a thumb in a tablesaw once, and recently made a nice 1/8" deep groove in my middle finger with my panelsaw. That one earned me dummy of the week, especially since I was training a new guy. Chisels, especially dull, are by far the most dangerous tool in a wood shop in my opinion.

[Van Huskey]

A well tuned and tensioned saw doesn't even need the guides. Many times I have raised the guide post all the way up and pulled the guide off to make a cut.

Pretty well know chair guy does this all the time with his Y36.

Wide and or thick blades at high tension and thus high beam strength do not need guides (well as long as you aren't running a feeder in the upper range) but narrow blades gain a lot of support from the guides especially in tight contour work. That said it is possible to do good contour work with a thin blade and loose guides but you have to guide both the workpiece and the blade, it certainly can be done but not a skill most will bother to cultivate.

[John Sincerbeaux]

“Chisels, especially dull, are by far the most dangerous tool in a wood shop in my opinion.”

I think the most dangerous tool in ANY shop is a dull brain.

On a seperate note, what a great young woman in this video. Pretty rare to find a pretty woman who chose her career path in these times. You all focus on her bandsaw techniques? This is a girl who grew up sleeping on barrels of poison while waiting for her grandpa to land on an unlit grass strip at 3am. Some of us have a bigger picture of what is truly dangerous.

[Chris Parks]

It's possible she just doesn't know the advantages of keeping the guides close to the stock.

It is possible she knows exactly how to use the saw set up the way it is. The reason she does it is she needs maximum depth of blade to shape the propeller boss and changing the height all the time wastes time and money. Please explain how taking the time to change the height of the guides would give her a better result.

[Patrick Walsh]

Ok I broke down and watched the video.

I don’t see the issue here. Based on her workpiece she is never closer than a couple feet away from the blade. It’s like the workpiece essentially has a giant handle built into it.

I’m all for using your knuckle and staying safe but there is nothing wrong going on here. Also for the quality of of cut and or rough cut she is making there is no need to bring the guides down. You can see the blade is doing just fine just as she has the saw setup.

FYI, I thought the video might get me a bit more excited. After reading the whole thread I’m kinda disappointed. I feel led on.....

[Nick Decker]

It is possible she knows exactly how to use the saw set up the way it is. The reason she does it is she needs maximum depth of blade to shape the propeller boss and changing the height all the time wastes time and money. Please explain how taking the time to change the height of the guides would give her a better result.

Please know that I didn't mean my post as being critical of how she does things. Just an observation. I enjoyed the video and applaud what she's doing.

[Darcy Warner]

I prefer this 3 part series on props.
https://youtu.be/l9UbnJlhrHA

[Phil Mueller]

I believe the video could have been helped greatly through better editing and certain interviewing techniques. Looking at the camera while asking someone behind you a question is awkward at best. But kudos to her for carrying on the business.

[John Sincerbeaux]

https://youtu.be/ax0yaHi4acc
I am pretty sure this company is the king of wood prop manufacturers. Note the CNC process, glue up, fiberglass coating, and finishing differences.

[Chris Parks]

I believe the video could have been helped greatly through better editing and certain interviewing techniques. Looking at the camera while asking someone behind you a question is awkward at best. But kudos to her for carrying on the business.

The understatement of the year, I have seen several videos of her and they are all terrible.

[Martin Wasner]

Note the CNC process,

I'm surprised to see it done on a 3 axis.

They're still picking and filing the final shape by hand it looks like.

[Van Huskey]

https://youtu.be/ax0yaHi4acc
I am pretty sure this company is the king of wood prop manufacturers. Note the CNC process, glue up, fiberglass coating, and finishing differences.

I know less than nothing about wooden props but does anyone know if the company in the initial video (Ms. Lewis' Culver Props) is providing a service not covered by the obviously bigger and likely more efficient Sensenich props in this video? Given one of the props Lewis showed was a hot air balloon inflation prop it has me wondering if her company fills gaps the larger ones don't mess with.

[Bradley Gray]

eep thought for the day:

Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.

My bandsaw relieves tension on me when I leave it alone

[John McClanahan]

Van, you could be right. What impressed me was how much she knows in about a dozen years. Her grandfather bought the business and moved it there from PA. A lot of learning on the job with no one with past experance to ask for help when problems arise. Some of those props can be quite a handful for a small(er) woman. And don't forget, lives are on the line with this woodworking!

[Tom M King]

The guy making the video was doing it for the target audience of the EAA (experimental aircraft association). If you look at the Culver price list, there are props available for engines that don't go in commercial aircraft, like VW's. There are some for Lycoming, and Continental, but a lot of those go in homebuilts too. There are some million dollar homebuilt aircraft, but most are far from that, and built in peoples' garages. Each different aircraft design requires its own prop design, even if using the same engine as a different aircraft design.

I don't know the what or why here, but it might well be a different market than the mass producers cover.

[Van Huskey]

The guy making the video was doing it for the target audience of the EAA (experimental aircraft association).

That's what I figured, as I said I don't know much if anything about general aviation or EAA. It was interesting to see the VW engines used but it makes sense due to light weight and being air cooled. The picture of the drive reduction page looks interesting, I had never seen a prop driven by a belt drive before.

[Tom M King]

The annual EAA fly-ins are Amazing. One big one in Oshkosh Wisconsin, and one in Florida-Sun&Fun, as well as a number of smaller ones. Some planes use V8's too.