Selecting CBN wheel.

[Roger Davis TN]

I want to buy one CBN wheel. I will use my other white aluminum oxide grinding wheels: a 120-grit wheel and a 60-grit wheel for shaping for now. I think I like the 1.5 inch wide and 220 grit CBN. Does anyone think this will be a good plan? Also, how do steel CBN wheels compare to aluminum wheels besides weight? Thanks so much. Roger Davis. SMWT see you all tomorrow nite.

[Don McClure]

Since you already have the coarser aluminum oxide wheels for shaping, I would recommend a CBN of 220 or even 350 for putting a new edge on when turning with out removing much metal.

[Brian Deakin]

I recently attended a Stuart Batty 5 day course and he recommended a 350 grit CBN and that is the grade of stone I purchased

see 30 minute into video link below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7BjRcSDurM&t=3456s

[JohnC Lucas]

I just upgraded from a 180 CBN to 350. I like it a lot better. Like you I have a 120 grit Aluminum oxide on the other side for rough shapeing and sharpening carbon steel tools.

[John K Jordan]

Roger, some may depend on what and how you turn. I have 80, 180, and 600 grit CBN here and 1200 grit CBN on a slow-speed Tormek, plus another bench grinder with ALOX wheels. I sharpen my skews, larger bowl gouges, and scrapers on the 600 and my spindle gouges on the 1200.

For me, the 600 is perfect since I strop the skews to a polished edge and hone the burr from the grinder from the scrapers then raise a working burr with a burnisher. If using scrapers directly from the grinder as some do, I'd want a coarser wheel for that.

The 1200 grit is better for the spindle gouges since it's easier to polish the cutting edge. A polished edge can give a smoother surface on hard woods (little or no sanding needed) and I think it stays sharp longer than an edge straight off the grinder.

I use the 80 grit only for reshaping tools, something your ALOX wheels will do. Since I have the other wheels I almost never use the 180 grit, but I might use it on larger bowl gouges if I turned a lot of big green bowls.

One way to help decide might be to visit a turner or two and see how you like the speed of grinding and the edge from their CBN wheels. Be sure to try CBN wheels that are well used - all of them, even the very fine, are much more aggressive when new.

JKJ

[Reed Gray]

I can remember when they were pretty much only 80 and 180 grit. I probably use the 180 most of the time now. I prefer the burr from the 180 on my scrapers for heavy roughing of bowls, and for most of my gouge work, which is mostly clean up and finish cuts. I did recently add a 320 grit, and am still experimenting with it. There was a recent article in the AAW magazine about wheels and sharpening which you may be able to find. In it Tom Wirsing says that he prefers the 600 grit wheel. So, in my opinion, the 80 grit isn't necessary, but I still like it for removal of stock, and minor profile changes. The 180, or 220 will do fine for about 90% of the cutting you will ever do. I am thinking, but haven't totally satisfied myself, that the 320 may be a bit fine for heavy roughing cuts. The 600 grit is fine fir really clean finish cuts on difficult woods that are soft or prone to tear out, but lousy for heavy roughing because the edge doesn't hold up as well. I am not a skew expert by any means, but the 600 grit seems to be fine for it, after a trip to the honing wheel on my Tormek. I saw Eric Loffstrom take his skew to a 60 grit wheel and then hand hone it on leather with honing compound, and then shave his arm. So, it will do.... If I need to get serious about reshaping a tool, like taking a new scraper blank from Thompson or D Way, and turning it into a NRS, I go to the 36 grit belt sander first, then the 80 grit wheel. I would suggest you keep the 60 grit wheel for any serious profile changes on your tools. I do have a 1000 grit CBN wheel, but don't use it much.

robo hippy

[John K Jordan]

I do have a 1000 grit CBN wheel, but don't use it much.


Is it an 8" wheel for a bench grinder? Do you plan to keep it? I'd like to try one for my skews.

[Reed Gray]

John, I am going to keep it for a while longer.... Ken Rizza said it was the first one he got, and we did some trading for it, rests for wheels..... The biggest problem with having different grinders and wheels is to get the platforms adjusted very precisely. Being off a tiny bit going from 80 to 600 or 1000 can make for a longer time sharpening. Even a tiny difference of 1/32 of an inch in the gap between wheel and platform can make a 1/2 degree difference in angles. Then, of course I set them up and then I take them off for transport to a demo.....

robo hippy

[John K Jordan]

...Then, of course I set them up and then I take them off for transport to a demo.....


Do you take the grinder too? If so, can you mount both to a piece of plywood and take the whole thing? I mount each grinder+varigrind and tormek bases to a separate piece of 3/4" baltic birch plywood so I can move it if needed.

Maybe some day when I'm not so cheap I'll get one of your rests to try! In the mean time, I make these to set the platforms:

396591

JKJ

[Reed Gray]

Maybe some day I will learn to take pictures and post them..... Need help from the kids... I don't like using other grinders, in part because of the difficulty of setting up platforms pretty exactly. I made boxes about 36h X 26l X 13 w, with a shelf in the middle. I can crate them up to ship to symposiums in a big crate with the grinder bolted to the shelf, or take it to an evening demo. The box acts as a table for a demo. For the Symposiums, I need 2 grinders, one for the two platforms I make. I had 3 grinders up in Portland because it was close. Each grinder is also bolted to a piece of plywood so it can be clamped to a table or bench, or when at home, screwed down to the bench. I would expect that with your jigs, you would most likely get the same half degree of variance that I get every time I set them up. Close works for the coarser wheels, not as well for the finer ones. At least in my experience.... Maybe some day they will be laser guided to set up at perfect matching angles.....

robo hippy

[John K Jordan]

Maybe some day I will learn to take pictures and post them.....

Sign up for JKJ's free on-line private personalized photo and posting seminar, offered only to select individuals, invitation only, applicable for this and the other forums.

Yes, the platform angles are easy to get wrong, but those angles for which I make the plexiglas gauges are always right on. I can set for a 38-deg skew, for example, and the first light touch to the wheel matches the last time exactly. It is, however, some effort to make one for each angle. So far, I have them for two different skew angles, one for my favorite NRS grind, and one to get a perfect 90-deg edge on the card scrapers I use, harder than it might seem. This method was useless before CBN kept the wheels at a constant diameter. (Does your rest compensate for change in diameter for ALOX wheels or best used with CBN?) Tormek supplies a convoluted gauge for their stone wheel machines that I always found difficult to use and not very precise.

Your fixed-angle platform sounds useful, for me as long as it could be used on the same grinder as the wolverine and Tormek supports.

Old picture with old CBN wheel - I don't use the radiused edge wheels now.
396598

JKJ

[Roger Davis TN]

I want to buy one CBN wheel. I will use my other white aluminum oxide grinding wheels: a 120-grit wheel and a 60-grit wheel for shaping for now. I think I like the 1.5 inch wide and 220 grit CBN. Does anyone think this will be a good plan? Also, how do steel CBN wheels compare to aluminum wheels besides weight? Thanks so much. Roger Davis. SMWT see you all tomorrow nite.
Thanks all. Great information. Is steel better than aluminum CBN wheels?

[John K Jordan]

... Is steel better than aluminum CBN wheels?

Opinions vary. I've only used aluminum so I can't compare based on experience. Both have the grit electroplated in the same way. Some say aluminum wheels cut cooler since heat transfer in aluminum is higher. I'm not sure that would make a significant difference in use since heat in the tool is generated by the friction, not by heat transfer. Steel can rust if exposed to water, such as using one in a Tormek water bath and not drying it afterwards. Aluminum can corrode. Steel can be a LOT heavier: a few people have reported slow startup speed on an under-powered bench grinder or having to give a boost by hand on a grinder with two heavy steel wheels.

JKJ

[Reed Gray]

I don't know that there is any difference. There were questions about the electroplating being different for aluminum and steel, but no one has seemed to have problems with the aluminum. Ken Rizza did have some plastic/polymer type hubs as well. The half horse Rikon grinder is a bit under powered for running 2 wheels. Some 3/4 hp grinders are the sane way. I do prefer more heavy duty tools...

robo hippy

[John K Jordan]

... Ken Rizza did have some plastic/polymer type hubs as well.

I think he said the problem with those (nylon?) was balancing when used at bench grinder speeds, the Tormek version is fine. His aluminum wheels are perfect.

[Bob Bergstrom]

No rust on D-Way wheels. I’ve sprayed water on them while sharpening high carbon steel. I believe the water either is spun off or evaporates from wind currents and possibly minor heat.

[Randy Walker]

Im going to jump in here with a quick question too, as I am planning to purchas a CBN soon. I would like th hear about the finish you get with the finer wheels. I was thinking about buying the 350 grit but in talking to someone in my club they said they liked the 600 better. He thought he got a better finish and didn't loose as much tool material when the re-sharpened.

I'd like to hear what you people think.

Randy Walker

[John K Jordan]

Where in TN are you? Did you talk to me and I forgot? :) (I have a notoriously poor memory - I even forgot my wife's name once.)

I wrote about what I use earlier in this thread and why. I use 600 CBN on a bench grinder and a 1200 on a Tormek. I also have a 180 and used to have a 350.

Some might depend on what you like to turn I like the finish of the 600 far better than I did the 340. However, I almost always turn dry wood and mostly smaller things, lots of spindles, boxes, etc, mostly hard wood species. If turning green bowls I think the 350 would be fine. I'd like to try a 1000 grit on the bench grinder to see how it compares to the 600.

The 600 is slower, of course, for reshaping tools.

If you live close you are welcome to bring a tool or two and try out my 600 but I no longer have the 350 for comparison.

JKJ


Im going to jump in here with a quick question too, as I am planning to purchas a CBN soon. I would like th hear about the finish you get with the finer wheels. I was thinking about buying the 350 grit but in talking to someone in my club they said they liked the 600 better. He thought he got a better finish and didn't loose as much tool material when the re-sharpened.

I'd like to hear what you people think.

Randy Walker

[Randy Walker]

I am a TAW member(Tennessee association of woodturners) so if you are also JJ that is a member of TAW then yes we have talked a time are two at the meetings and I have had the pleasure of watching you demonstrate. Otherwise I may not have had the pleasure of making your acquaintance. I live south of Nashville near Spring Hill TN.
I tend to turn a mixed bag of things. Sometimes green wood, sometimes bone dry wood other times I turn acrylic or acrylic+junk/hybrid stuff (that needs really sharp tools). If I buy a CBN I will put it on one side of my grinder but I will keep the current white wheel on the other side for now. It will be used for re-shaping other such task.
I am more curious about the finish left by the tools.

Many thanks
Randy Walker

[John K Jordan]

I'm John K Jordan, the amateur part-time woodturner and live on a llama/donkey/horse/peacock farm north of Knoxville. The other John Jordan, the famous woodturner with pieces in galleries an with collectors all of the world, lives out your way. People all over have gotten us mixed up for years. (One year at the symposium he told me he got so tired explaining to people that he didn't make the carved bowl in the Instant Gallery that he finally just started smiling and saying "thank you" to the compliments. :)) We are the same age but I'm considerably better looking. (Ha!) This picture was taken at a TAW symposium maybe 10 years ago, Doug Thompson, JJ, John Lucas, and me. I told him if he kicked off before me I wanted his sign.

396723 396728

I also like turning acrylic. I brought some to the TN symposium a few years ago, including these:

396724 396725 396726 396729

What kind of acrylic do you turn? Most of what I've done is with colored cast acrylic rods - do you use those? I often use a Hunter Hercules tool, sometimes a spindle gouge, and some scrapers. I get a good finish off the tool from the Hunter cutter and just as good a finish with spindle gouges sharpened on the Tormek with 1200 but I'm not happy with them until I strop the edge with the leather wheel and the Tormek honing compound. I strop skews on a piece of resawn MDF with polishing compound rubbed into the rough side. I like all the tools to be shaving sharp.

Since the scratches on work are transferred from the grinding scratches on the edge I polish/hone/strop the tools. With a polished edge on any tool the cut on acrylic for me is pretty smooth, as it is on hard woods like dogwood, cocobolo, ebony, etc. I still have to sand but usually only with very fine paper. Most of my gouges and skews are Thompsons. You might try a Hunter tool if you haven't - the cutter is highly polished. Mike will be at the symposium.

I use small negative rake scrapers on acrylic too, not a bad finish cut if I hone the grinder burr off the scraper and raise a smooth burr with a burnisher.

Most of my cast acrylic is 1.5" diameter rods of various colors. If you haven't tried that I'd be glad to bring you a few pieces in January.

JKJ


I am a TAW member(Tennessee association of woodturners) so if you are also JJ that is a member of TAW then yes we have talked a time are two at the meetings and I have had the pleasure of watching you demonstrate. Otherwise I may not have had the pleasure of making your acquaintance. I live south of Nashville near Spring Hill TN.
I tend to turn a mixed bag of things. Sometimes green wood, sometimes bone dry wood other times I turn acrylic or acrylic+junk/hybrid stuff (that needs really sharp tools). If I buy a CBN I will put it on one side of my grinder but I will keep the current white wheel on the other side for now. It will be used for re-shaping other such task.
I am more curious about the finish left by the tools.

Many thanks
Randy Walker

[Mel Fulks]

John, the other one reminds me of Ghandi

[Wes Henson]

I got a 360 grit wheel from D-way tools and I really like the grit. It is enough to sharpen the edge without removing a lot of material. I also like that it is 1.5" wide. I don't think I'd want to go any lower. There is 600 grit, but I think that is too fine for what I do.
He also sells the bushings.
This was a HUGE upgrade for me over the old oxide wheels.
Good luck with your upgrade!

-Wes

[Michael Perez chavez]

Hello sorry to bother you but I’d like to know your opinion on grinding stones for sharpening turning tools.
Because I’m not sure about the grid and type, if I’m going to buy only one, these are my options:
Here in my country (Peru)I can find 60 grit oxide aluminum white stone and 120 grit silicon carbide (both Makita)
I also can buy from Amazon the Norton Oxide aluminum White wheel (they have this option 100 and150).
Then I’ve heard a lot about CBN wheels and I don’t know if they really make that big difference and at the end of the day the best and cheapest option?
Thank you so much

[Reed Gray]

A CNB wheel may not be the cheapest deal you can get, but it is the best value, as in you get far more for the money. They are spin and bubble balanced. For a production turner, they are good for about 5 years. For a hobby turner, well, a lot longer than that. They never change size, and there is no risk at all of them ever blowing up. If you get one, get a 180 grit as it will do 90%, at least, of all of the sharpening you need. Norton does make a blue ceramic grit wheel which is pretty good quality. I would go for the 150 grit if they have it in that range. 60 grit is very coarse, and better for shaping than for sharpening.

robo hippy

[Edward Weber]

A CNB wheel may not be the cheapest deal you can get, but it is the best value, as in you get far more for the money. They are spin and bubble balanced. For a production turner, they are good for about 5 years. For a hobby turner, well, a lot longer than that. They never change size, and there is no risk at all of them ever blowing up. If you get one, get a 180 grit as it will do 90%, at least, of all of the sharpening you need. Norton does make a blue ceramic grit wheel which is pretty good quality. I would go for the 150 grit if they have it in that range. 60 grit is very coarse, and better for shaping than for sharpening.

robo hippy


+1 on the 180.
It's the sweet spot as far as the best for sharpening and shaping.

[Randy Walker]

I went ahead and purchased a 600 grit CBN wheel. I use it strictly for sharpening. It gives me an incredibly sharp edge, but it is not for grinding. For grinding I still have an 80-grit white wheel on the other side of my grinder. CBN wheels are expensive, but for a hobbyist they are one-time purchases. They will outlast any other grinding or sharpening wheel available and will give consistent and repeatable results time after time. If you have access to them, I highly recommend investing in them as a primary tool purchase.

Randy Walker