Beading

[Mark Rainey]

My project calls for a 1/4 inch bead on about 12 boards which are 4 feet long and shiplapped together. Do I use a beading tool ( such as Veritas ) or a beading plane ( woodplane 1/4 inch or Veritas small plow with beading attachments). I have done beading with my homemade scratch stock. It is a bit slow and am wondering if other methods are easier, or give better results.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

My project calls for a 1/4 inch bead on about 12 boards which are 4 feet long and shiplapped together. Do I use a beading tool ( such as Veritas ) or a beading plane ( woodplane 1/4 inch or Veritas small plow with beading attachments). I have done beading with my homemade scratch stock. It is a bit slow and am wondering if other methods are easier, or give better results.


I have an old home and all my mouldings are beaded. I have done it all- wooden beading plane, plow plane, scratch stock... All do the job, but the Veritas plow is by far my favorite way if you have deep pockets. Less deep pockets- Veritas beading tool.

[Jim Koepke]

If you have the small plow plane, use that. It will save a lot of time when you are doing beading on a lot of pieces.

In my case it would be a Stanley #45 for a job like this.

jtk

[Tom M King]

Depending on how you want the quirk shaped can also be a determining factor. Beading planes typically have a little flat at the bottom of the quirk, whereas beading tools go down to a point, like old work. The absolute easiest to use is a dedicated beading molding plane, and some of them do take the quirk down to a point. I once had to do some repairs to a 200 year old reeded mantle, and the only tool that would match the quirks was a beading too.

[Mark Rainey]

Just the reason I needed to buy a new tool! Thanks Malcolm & Jim.

[Mark Rainey]

Depending on how you want the quirk shaped can also be a determining factor. Beading planes typically have a little flat at the bottom of the quirk, whereas beading tools go down to a point, like old work. The absolute easiest to use is a dedicated beading molding plane, and some of them do take the quirk down to a point. I once had to do some repairs to a 200 year old reeded mantle, and the only tool that would match the quirks was a beading too. Very interesting Tom. I will think about that.

[Jim Koepke]

Just the reason I needed to buy a new tool! Thanks Malcolm & Jim.

Glad to help, hope it will be your early Christmas present.

jtk

[Mark Rainey]

Decided to get 1/4 inch side bead wood plane from Dan of Red Rose Reproductions. What a beauty!! Light, smooth & a dream to use. Ordered it a couple days ago & delivered today. Making a shiplapped back for my china hutch with 1/2 inch quartersawn cherry.397012397013397014397015397016

[Tom M King]

Good choice! That's by far the easiest, and most fun way to do it.

[Mark Rainey]

Thanks Tom! This bead plane is fun - what would you think if I ran a bead on the stiles of the glass door - that is, the stiles that almost meet in the center?

[Tom M King]

I don't understand the question.

[Mark Rainey]

I don't understand the question. Tom, I am making a china hutch with the top being a cabinet with the two doors with glass panes. The doors have vertical stiles & horizontal rails. When I got the beading plane yesterday the instructions said “ good for making beads on rails “. So it got me to thinking a bead on the edge of the stiles would look nice. I was interested if you have seen this in your historical restoration experience.397033

[Tom M King]

Looks great!

edited to add: I remembered one on a piece of furniture from the 19th Century in our own house. This is a Grained armoire. Rotation aggravation again.

[Mark Rainey]

Thanks for your advice Tom! The armoire looks to have a bead on only one of the stiles which is very interesting...it seems to minimize the vertical gap between the doors...much like the beading does in a beaded shiplapped joint.

[steven c newman]

397056397057
then add a second bead..
397058
For this little box, I then split off the lid, by sawing right between the beads
397059
To make a lid...
397060
397061

[Mark Rainey]

397056397057
then add a second bead..
397058
For this little box, I then split off the lid, by sawing right between the beads
397059
To make a lid...
397060
397061nice. Stanley 45?

[steven c newman]

Yep. Type 20, SW, Roxton Pond, QUE., Canada.

[Stewie Simpson]

Mark; nice choice with the new side bead plane.

The following shows a 1/2" side bead that I recently reworked its cutting profile.

The supplied hardness within the steel required annealing before it could be worked with a file.

(An ability to work the irons profile with a file are commonly found within earlier made molding planes.)

Stewie;

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/phil%20edwards%20moulding%20planes/DSC_0164_zpsovvdd4ss.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/phil%20edwards%20moulding%20planes/DSC_0164_zpsovvdd4ss.jpg.html)

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/phil%20edwards%20moulding%20planes/DSC_0163_zpskmhhzlnr.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/phil%20edwards%20moulding%20planes/DSC_0163_zpskmhhzlnr.jpg.html)

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/phil%20edwards%20moulding%20planes/DSC_0165_zpsmtnqorpy.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/phil%20edwards%20moulding%20planes/DSC_0165_zpsmtnqorpy.jpg.html)

[Mark Rainey]

Thanks Stewie. Your pic is not showing up for me❓

[Warren Mickley]

Some 19th century cabinets have a single bead between the two stiles.

They have a rabbet on each door edge so that one door overlaps the other and securing one door will also hold the other shut. Then to disguise the fact that on the outside one stile would otherwise appear wider than the other, they put a bead on the overlapping door to even things out. It gives the appearance of symmetry.

Some also have a beads on the out side edges that line up with the hinge knuckles The same can be done with the face frame stiles, mortising the hinge in the frame instead.

[Mark Rainey]

Thanks Stewie. Your pic is not showing up for me❓
Got it - very interesting!

[Mark Rainey]

Thank you Warren - this gives me plenty of options with my new beading plane.
Some 19th century cabinets have a single bead between the two stiles.

They have a rabbet on each door edge so that one door overlaps the other and securing one door will also hold the other shut. Then to disguise the fact that on the outside one stile would otherwise appear wider than the other, they put a bead on the overlapping door to even things out. It gives the appearance of symmetry.

Some also have a beads on the out side edges that line up with the hinge knuckles The same can be done with the face frame stiles, mortising the hinge in the frame instead.

[steven c newman]

Something else to try...sometime..
397272
Dresses up the outside corners a bit....

[James Pallas]

Depending on how you want the quirk shaped can also be a determining factor. Beading planes typically have a little flat at the bottom of the quirk, whereas beading tools go down to a point, like old work. The absolute easiest to use is a dedicated beading molding plane, and some of them do take the quirk down to a point. I once had to do some repairs to a 200 year old reeded mantle, and the only tool that would match the quirks was a beading too.
This is a question as opposed to a statement. I thought that on older work with a sharp quirk was done with a snipes bill and a hollow. The snipes bill would follow a gauge line and the hollow work the bead tracking on the snipes bill cut. This would allow for many sizes to be worked without the need for dedicated beading planes.
Jim

[Mark Rainey]

Something else to try...sometime..
397272
Dresses up the outside corners a bit....
Nice ornamentation Steve.

[Tom M King]

If you look at the cutters for beading tools, and those for combination planes, you will see a difference in the "pointiness" of the small part of the cutter inside the bead. I always thought that the beading cutters for combination planes needed the extra reinforcement because the large, comfortable handle invited the user to put more force behind it than a dedicated molding plane.

I think most, if not all of my side beading molding planes have the sharp point.

On the reeded mantle, that I had to replace some parts on, the reeded parts were small squares with the reeding at 45 degree angles. Each small square was oriented in a different direction than it's adjoining neighbor. Sorry, it would take me hours to find a picture, since that job was done over a decade ago. All the quirks went down to a point. I don't believe a Snipe Bill plane took any part of that job.

The one time I remember using a Snipe Bill plane was in that same early 19th Century house. I had to replace some short pieces of Grecian Ogee with Bead moldings in two different rooms. The rooms were both on the front of the house, on opposite sides of the Passage (what we call a Hall today). One room had that molding that I could match exactly with a molding plane I had. It was also an exact match for one of the Stanley combination plane cutters. That molding in the other room looked like it was made by a plane that came from the same maker that made the molding in the first room, but the part of the cutter that made the quirk had been worn down, for whatever reason, so was nothing like as deep as it was in the room across the Passage.

I made the matching molding for the shallower quirked kind with hollows, rounds, snipe billed plane, and combination plane for the bead. I could use the combination plane cutter because the extra little flat didn't matter there, and side beaders put the bead right on the edge, which wasn't the case with the Grecian.

I don't think there is a hard and fast rule for any of it, but believe that a Snipe Billed plane was rarely, if ever, used for production purposes.

[Mark Rainey]

Shiplapped with Record 778, hand plane beaded 1/2 quarter sawn cherry back completed 397292

[Warren Mickley]

This is a question as opposed to a statement. I thought that on older work with a sharp quirk was done with a snipes bill and a hollow. The snipes bill would follow a gauge line and the hollow work the bead tracking on the snipes bill cut. This would allow for many sizes to be worked without the need for dedicated beading planes.
Jim

In general,a carpenter or a joiner would use a moulding plane that would make the complete moulding with a single plane. The reason is that he would be using a plane for many feet of moulding just on one house and maybe many houses.And that moulding has to match up at joints in the moulding on a lon g run.

A cabinetmaker would be more likely to use hollows and rounds to make a moulding of seven feet or less for a single piece of furniture, and he may have a larger vocabulary of mouldings. Even if it is somewhat more work to build up a moulding in stages with several planes, it is more versatile.

For restoration work, we often use hollows and rounds to duplicate mouldings that were originally made with a single plane. For one foot of moulding or whatever, it is not worth making a plane that we may never use again.

For a hobbyist I think some sort of beading plane would be a nice thing. Also although one can make an ogee moulding with hollows and rounds, ogees are used often, and very much easier to make with a dedicated plane.

[Stewie Simpson]

Waiting on the arrival of this MOSELEY Side Bead & Double Reed plane from the u.k.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/mosely%20moulding%20plane/complex%20moulding%20plane_zpsc1xpiyrm.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/mosely%20moulding%20plane/complex%20moulding%20plane_zpsc1xpiyrm.jpg.html)

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/mosely%20moulding%20plane/2%20complex%20moulding%20plane_zpsimgdqd8a.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/mosely%20moulding%20plane/2%20complex%20moulding%20plane_zpsimgdqd8a.jpg.htm l)

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/mosely%20moulding%20plane/4%20complex%20moulding%20plane_zps1ysiwokg.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/mosely%20moulding%20plane/4%20complex%20moulding%20plane_zps1ysiwokg.jpg.htm l)

[lowell holmes]

I have the Veritas Small Plow with all of the cutters. It does a great job for beading.

[Jim Koepke]

This is a question as opposed to a statement. I thought that on older work with a sharp quirk was done with a snipes bill and a hollow. The snipes bill would follow a gauge line and the hollow work the bead tracking on the snipes bill cut. This would allow for many sizes to be worked without the need for dedicated beading planes.
Jim

There are a dozen ways to do just about anything in woodworking. With wooden planes it is easy to make a sharp point in the boxing to work with a pointed blade. A combination plane has a minimum area the blade must be beyond the skate. If one were a machinist, perhaps the skates could be cut down to allow for less of a quirk.

[Mark Rainey]

Waiting on the arrival of this MOSELEY Side Bead & Double Reed plane from the u.k.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/mosely%20moulding%20plane/complex%20moulding%20plane_zpsc1xpiyrm.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/mosely%20moulding%20plane/complex%20moulding%20plane_zpsc1xpiyrm.jpg.html)

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/mosely%20moulding%20plane/2%20complex%20moulding%20plane_zpsimgdqd8a.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/mosely%20moulding%20plane/2%20complex%20moulding%20plane_zpsimgdqd8a.jpg.htm l)

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/mosely%20moulding%20plane/4%20complex%20moulding%20plane_zps1ysiwokg.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/mosely%20moulding%20plane/4%20complex%20moulding%20plane_zps1ysiwokg.jpg.htm l)wow...what a beauty Stewie. Love to see some pics when you get that tuned up & put into play

[Stewie Simpson]

wow...what a beauty Stewie. Love to see some pics when you get that tuned up & put into play

Mark; will post the photo's as requested.

I received the following feedback on the uk forum site that indicates the planes vintage as being; (1809-1818)


AndyT wrote:

The best researched source of information on this sort of question is still British Planemakers from 1700, third edition.

Over six pages, it describes Moseley as the pre-eminent London planemaker of the 19th century. It also attempts to sort out the marks most likely to have been used in different periods of the firm's history.

For the name MOSELEY on its own, it suggests the period 1809-1818, before it became Moseley & Son.