Sash by hand in cherry [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

brian zawatsky

11-07-2018, 8:55 PM

Mark that looks awesome! Nice clean, tight joints. Did you stick the muntins & mullions with a sash plane? If so you are my hero lol

Edit: You posted the second pics while I was typing. Turns out you are my hero

David Eisenhauer

11-07-2018, 9:58 PM

That plane! I need one just to rub on some wood for a while.

Jim Koepke

11-08-2018, 1:34 AM

Wonderful work on the joinery. Did you take any pictures of the joint taken apart to show the joinery details?

jtk

Mark Rainey

11-08-2018, 6:27 AM

One of the reasons we love hand tools!
That plane! I need one just to rub on some wood for a while.

Mark Rainey

11-08-2018, 6:28 AM

Thanks Brian - it was a fun project!
Mark that looks awesome! Nice clean, tight joints. Did you stick the muntins & mullions with a sash plane? If so you are my hero lol

Edit: You posted the second pics while I was typing. Turns out you are my hero

Mark Rainey

11-08-2018, 6:39 AM

Jim, some pictures of the joinery on practice pieces and my guide, Charles Hayward
396256396257396258396259396260396261

Brian Holcombe

11-08-2018, 7:24 AM

Beautiful work, Mark!

Mark Rainey

11-08-2018, 8:42 AM

Thanks Brian.
Beautiful work, Mark!

Robert LaPlaca

11-08-2018, 8:45 AM

Wow awesome looking sash. Where did you find your sash plane? I would love to find a sash plane that matches my early 20th century sashes, I have 5/8” muntins with the most graceful ovolo profile.

Mark Rainey

11-08-2018, 8:55 AM

Wow awesome looking sash. Where did you find your sash plane? I would love to find a sash plane that matches my early 20th century sashes, I have 5/8” muntins with the most graceful ovolo profile.
Thanks Robert! I bought my stick & rabbet ( sash ) plane from Todd Herrli about 18 years ago, along with a matching coping plane. Life got in the way & I never used them until this cherry country hutch I am building. 396262

Dave Anderson NH

11-08-2018, 12:47 PM

Excellent work Mark. Making sash is one of the fussier and more difficult forms of hand tool woodworking. Gads, I haven't heard the name Todd Herrli in quite a while.

Robert LaPlaca

11-08-2018, 1:44 PM

Thanks for the information Mark. I know it’s important to get both the sash plane and the matching cope plane or the proper template..

I know from repairing a few window sashes its a drag to have to cope by hand with carving gouges..

Jim Koepke

11-08-2018, 3:20 PM

Mark, thanks for the added images, it is making me want to make something with sash and glass.

I would love to find a sash plane that matches my early 20th century sashes, I have 5/8” muntins with the most graceful ovolo profile.

Some of the sash blades that have come my way for a Stanley #45 were modified by previous owners for custom or matching work. It isn't as hard as it may seem.

jtk

Mark Rainey

11-08-2018, 3:45 PM

Excellent work Mark. Making sash is one of the fussier and more difficult forms of hand tool woodworking. Gads, I haven't heard the name Todd Herrli in quite a while.
Thanks Dave. Todd is a great plane maker but I think he is into making boats now...I emailed him about the plane recently was kind enough to give me some advice

Mark Rainey

11-08-2018, 8:42 PM

Fitting the doors396289

David Eisenhauer

11-08-2018, 11:18 PM

Looks great from here Mark. I wonder how many normal citizens realize just how much work, skill and care go into something (to them) like a simple sash?

Andrew Hughes

11-08-2018, 11:19 PM

Looks great excellent work Mark .

Mark Rainey

11-09-2018, 5:44 AM

Looks great from here Mark. I wonder how many normal citizens realize just how much work, skill and care go into something (to them) like a simple sash?
Thanks David. You make a good point.

Mark Rainey

11-09-2018, 5:45 AM

Looks great excellent work Mark .
Thanks Andrew!

Robert LaPlaca

11-09-2018, 10:52 AM

Some of the sash blades that have come my way for a Stanley #45 were modified by previous owners for custom or matching work. It isn't as hard as it may seem.

Jim thanks for the suggestion on the Stanley 45, I am a hybrid woodworker and will use whatever tool will get the job done. Just out of curiosity how well does the 45 really work?

Jim Koepke

11-09-2018, 2:21 PM

Jim thanks for the suggestion on the Stanley 45, I am a hybrid woodworker and will use whatever tool will get the job done. Just out of curiosity how well does the 45 really work?

They do have a bit of a learning curve. They will turn out good work when one is willing to take the needed time to learn its ways. They also help one to learn about using profiled blades. The experience will help if one wants to move up to other types of molding planes.

jtk

Jim Koepke

11-09-2018, 7:11 PM

Used some of my time out in the shop today to take some pictures of my sash blades and try one of the blades on a piece of scrap:

396334

On the left is a standard #1 sash blade that came with a Stanley #45. The second and third blades have been modified. The second plane has been shaped more like an ogee on the curved side. The third blade has been ground with a straight edge at an angle. The last blade is a #2 sash blade that is a mirror of the #1. This is used left handed for the back side of a work piece if the grain is problematic.

Here is the Stanley #45 in use with a #1 sash blade:

396337

As with other molding work, it is important to pick stock that is fairly straight grained and compliant. Some pieces of wood work better than others.

It is likely the same with dedicated sash planes to first get the plane set up on some scrap. Once it is cutting to one's liking then the work can proceed to the stock to be used for the finished work.

jtk

Stew Denton

11-09-2018, 8:50 PM

Hi Mark,

Beautiful work! By the way, what is the name of the Hayward book, I like the idea of getting one! (My wife may not see the great value in such a purchase, however.)

Stew

Mark Rainey

11-09-2018, 9:42 PM

Thanks Stew! The book is called Woodworking Joints by Charles Hayward. My library got the book on interlibrary loan. I made a copy of the chapter on sash. PM me if you want me email you the pages.
Hi Mark,

Beautiful work! By the way, what is the name of the Hayward book, I like the idea of getting one! (My wife may not see the great value in such a purchase, however.)

Stew

Steven Mikes

11-09-2018, 10:57 PM

Mein gott! Very impressing work.

Mark Rainey

11-10-2018, 9:35 AM

Mein gott! Very impressing work.
Danke Steve!

Steve Voigt

11-10-2018, 12:31 PM

Very nice work, Mark. It's great to see someone making sash; I'd love to see this area of hand tool work get more attention.

David Ryle

11-12-2018, 9:26 PM

Really impressed, and in cherry no less. Just a quick question regarding the planes used. Why are coping planes so difficult to find.

Mark Rainey

11-12-2018, 9:57 PM

Really impressed, and in cherry no less. Just a quick question regarding the planes used. Why are coping planes so difficult to find.. Thanks for the compliment- it was an adventure! David, I think Tom King, who has vast experience in restoration work, would have a more informed opinion, but I think sash by hand is close to a lost art. Most of the planes are old & they need adjustments to make them function. I used the coping plane often but I also used a fret saw & gouge to cope. I guess that when the muntins wete done by hand special sticking boards or templates were used to prevent tearout by the coping plane. Without such specialized techniques, it is often easier to cope the muntins with a saw & gouge.

Warren Mickley

11-13-2018, 7:16 AM

I have made sash by hand for more than thirty years, but I have never used a coping plane. I don't think I have ever seen 18th century work that has been done with a coping plane. Given the choice between buying coping plane and buying another sash plane with a different profile, I would choose the sash plane.

Coping planes were made in the 19th century, but I have also seen catalogs with many different sash planes and no coping planes at all. So I think that the reason coping planes are rare today is that not all that many were made.

Nice work, Mark. Nothing looks better than hand made sash.

Mark Rainey

11-13-2018, 8:27 AM

Nice work, Mark. Nothing looks better than hand made sash.
Thank you Warren!

Jerry Olexa

11-13-2018, 11:58 AM

Very nice work!!!! Well done.

Jeff Bartley

11-13-2018, 12:45 PM

Great work Mark! I've never used a coping plane but would love to try one. I've always coped with a carving gouge.
That's going to be a nice cabinet!

Mark Rainey

11-13-2018, 4:53 PM

Great work Mark! I've never used a coping plane but would love to try one. I've always coped with a carving gouge.
That's going to be a nice cabinet! Thanks Jeff...when I coped with the carving gouge it was the usual outcannel gouge, that is the bevel is on the outside. I have heard that an in-cannel is better. Anyone with a strong preference?

Stewie Simpson

11-13-2018, 7:01 PM

Mark; have you seen the following video.

http://kapeldesigns.blogspot.com/2014/04/construction-of-sash-window-frame-from.html

Mark Rainey

11-13-2018, 7:52 PM

Mark; have you seen the following video.

http://kapeldesigns.blogspot.com/2014/04/construction-of-sash-window-frame-from.html
Yes, Stewie, thanks, I did watch that a few times. Jim Koepke also directed me to Roy Underhills shows where he does sash.

Mark Rainey

11-13-2018, 9:22 PM

Very nice work!!!! Well done.
Thanks Jerry!

Matthew Hartlin

11-14-2018, 9:10 AM

Fantastic work, and enjoyed the video that was shared as well!

Mark Rainey

11-14-2018, 9:19 AM

Fantastic work, and enjoyed the video that was shared as well!
Thanks Matthew!

Mark Rainey

12-26-2018, 8:45 PM

Cherry china hutch finished, with glass cut from 1880 farm house, sash with hand tools including stick and rabbet plane.399598399599

brian zawatsky

12-26-2018, 9:10 PM

Absolutely beautiful work, Mark! The bead that you added to the door really looks like it belongs there.

Jeff Bartley

12-26-2018, 9:30 PM

Nice work Mark!

Mark Rainey

12-26-2018, 9:34 PM

Absolutely beautiful work, Mark! The bead that you added to the door really looks like it belongs there.
Thanks Brian, I was a little worried about it, I got the beading plane for the shiplapped back, but when you get a new toy, you want to use it. But I am happy with it.

Tom M King

12-26-2018, 9:40 PM

Looks great!! As a friend of mine says, be sure to sign, and date it. It should be appreciated for generations.

Mark Rainey

12-26-2018, 10:03 PM

Looks great!! As a friend of mine says, be sure to sign, and date it. It should be appreciated for generations.Thanks Tom! And thanks for your advice during the project.

Mark Rainey

12-26-2018, 10:05 PM

Nice work Mark! thanks Jeff!

Derek Cohen

12-26-2018, 11:59 PM

Beautiful and masterful work, Mark.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Mark Rainey

12-27-2018, 5:43 AM

Thanks Derek!

Phil Mueller

12-27-2018, 8:29 AM

I saw the hutch in the projects area Mark, really nice, per your usual execution. I had to smile on your new tool comment. Yes, a new tool must be used on whatever project is at hand! When I got the LV inlay tools, I think everything got stringing for awhile...whether it needed it or not....just the nature of new tools, I guess.