Craftsman table saw upgradeable?

[Matthew Carver]

Thoughts on upgrading craftsman table saw. Is it worth it? This is from my wife's uncle, price=free. Should I save my pennies for a cabinet saw or upgrade this guy?
I was looking at this: https://www.zoro.com/powermatic-table-30-accu-fence-system-27-x-17-6827036/i/G0974815/

If there is a smarter thing, I'd love to hear about it.


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[Jim Becker]

Perhaps you can show is the whole saw...the Craftsman brand had a whole lot of them on the market over time. That will be helpful to folks who want to help.

[George Bokros]

I have a Craftsman table saw I purchased in 1974. I have upgraded it with a Biesemeyer Fence and a Incra miter gauge and it works great. I had the cast aluminum table extensions. I also added a solid extension made from a router table top Woodpeckers was selling off for over stock to right side and now have the two cast aluminum extensions on the left side of the blade.

What is the vintage of the saw? That could be the defining item. The older ones like mine were pretty well made.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I had a cheap direct drive Craftsman table saw. For general carpentry work, it worked well for 25 years or so. Eventually the motor bearings became worn and the cuts became less accurate.

Does this saw have a trunnion and arbor or is it direct drive?

[Bruce Page]

It’s hard to answer your question without seeing the saw. I had a Craftsman contractor that I upgraded with a new fence, link belt, and shop made dust collection improvements. It did improve the saw’s performance. That said, not long after I ended up buying a new Unisaw. The Unisaw was such a huge night & day improvement that I regretted putting the money & effort into the Craftsman.
YMMV

[Andrew Nemeth]

Does the saw have the cast iron wings or the stamped steel ones?

I had a Craftsman contractor saw for over 15 years with very few problems. It was belt drive with the motor hanging out the back. It had webbed cast iron table extensions which gave it a decent amount of heft so it didn’t feel unsteady when working with larger stock. The fence was not very good and I would always measure both front and back of the fence off the miter slots to make sure it was parrellel. I believe mine was a 1.5 hp model (advertised as 3 hp peak). Given the saw was belt drive, the cutting depth was comparable to cabinet saws, but the motor was not really made for ripping 10/4 maple with a full kerf blade. I replaced the arbor bearings once, the motor once, and the capacitors more than once. Additionally, the dust collection with open backed saws can be challenging. I didn’t know much better back then so I never tried to really collect it. You can capture most of the larger shavings by adding a tray and dust collection port underneath but I’ve never seen an adequate solution for the fine dust with open back saws.

So, with all that being said, it really was a good starting saw and much preferable to the “contractor” saws they sell now. The new saws are much more portable but not nearly as solid for fine woodworking and jointery. The best upgrades I made was putting a link belt on to reduce vibration, and getting a good thin kerf combination blade (I use a Forest 60T thin kerf WWII with stabilizer) for general use, and a thin kerf low tooth count blade for ripping stock greater than 4/4 or 5/4. I glued many a good joints right off the saw before I had a jointer. You can easily obtain and mount machined pulleys as the included cast ones are often known to be out true. Mine were not too bad, and the linked belt took care of what little vibration they caused. Fences are usually easy to come by if you post a WTB on here or keep an eye on Craigslist. The rest of the stuff is pretty inexpensive to buy new. I don’t really look at saw blades as an upgraded expense as they are ultimately consumable and you can use them on the next saw if you eventually upgrade.

If you have an area you can work with fine dust, you can always wear a good dust mask or respirator while cutting and cleaning up, that’s the only thing that might keep me from using a saw like that again in a basement shop, or in a shared use space.

If you have have any other questions about it, let me know, I’d be happy to help as much as I can.

-Andrew

[Matthew Carver]

I'll get another photo tomorrow. Its in my f-i-l shed. It has an upgraded belt drive, and it is cast iron top with the funky expanded metal wing. It has holes in the top that looks like it had a bolt on fence system at one time.

[Matthew Carver]

It is very likely a mid 70s knowing its history.

[Matthew Carver]

Thanks for the expansive response. Your saw sounds very similar to this one. I have a dewalt contractor saw, the top could be bigger for sure. Its pretty small. The craftsman has a link belt upgrade on it.

[Lee Schierer]

The 113.xxxxx saws with the cast iron open grate wings are very good saws. The factory fence and cross cut guide leave a lot to be desired. I have one that has been upgraded with a beismeyer fence, kreg crosscut jig, machine pulleys and a link belt. It aligns within 0.001" and will be a very nice starter saw or a long term keeper. I've built lots lots of furniture and other wood projects on mine.

[Curt Harms]

There are quite a few add-ons for those saws because there are so many out there. I started out with a 113.xxx saw, the fence that came with it was pretty bad, that was obvious to even a newbie like I was. I added a Mule Cab fence and link belt. Not too long after I bought a Grizzly 1023 - early one that came with a crude Jet Lock fence knockoff. Took the fence off the Craftsman saw and put it on the Grizzly saw and it's still there today. Sold the Craftsman saw with the Jet Lock knockoff. The only thing I'd do differently today would be to use an AX belt instead of a link belt. I've heard that AX belts run quieter (less air turbulence due to smooth top, won't take a set) and are less money.

https://www.vbelts4less.com/Classic-Cogged-AXBXCX-V-Belts_c_8.html

One thing to keep in mind is that most 'real' cabinet saws have 3+ h.p. motors and require 240 volts. Depending on your situation, it can be pretty expensive to run a new circuit.

[Mike Cutler]

If the arbor runs true, and it basically functions properly, yes.
A table saw is a blade spinning about an arbor. If that function is performing properly, the rest can be adapted.

[Mike Kees]

I would echo Bruce's conclusion. I also bought a Cman saw for my first tablesaw. The fence drove me nuts and the motor was weak. Mine was one of the ones with a belt drive 1 1/4 h.p. motor and cast iron grid extensions. I bought a new motor and intended to get a new fence. When I began looking at the cost that stopped me. Ended up purchasing a used Delta contractor saw with a 52'' Unifence for 600. It was like comparing a biplane to a stealth fighter. Never looked back. I did not catch what you have for a saw now,if this is an upgrade or your first saw ,that fence you posted the link to is pretty affordable and would be a huge upgrade from the one on your saw. I think I would do that ,(fence) then use it and see if it meets your needs. Mike.

[Bill Space]

Although I have a better cabinet saw now, I still use my craftsman 10" saw, which I upgraded with a Unifence.

Before upgrading to a 5 HP cabinet saw, the Craftsman saw did what I needed. It still does.

For me the Craftsman fence was the major limitation. After adding the Unifence the world changed.

Since the price is right I would say do for it. I would if I had nothing else to use at the moment.

My Craftsman saw has the stamped steel wings...the expanded cast iron ones would not work with my Unifence and I am glad I don't have them, although I remember a time when I thought I wanted them..

Bill

[Cary Falk]

I will go against the grain here. I went from a sears benchtop to a Delta contractor to a cabinet saw to a Delta saw with a Grizzly 1023RL with a riving knife. You are already thinking about a cabinet saw. It seems a waste to get a new fence, PALS, etc to fix it up only to wish you had a cabinet saw. That being said that is a screaming deal on that fence if it is the full blown Biesemeyer clone.

[Frank Pratt]

I will go against the grain here. I went from a sears benchtop to a Delta contractor to a cabinet saw to a Delta saw with a Grizzly 1023RL with a riving knife. You are already thinking about a cabinet saw. It seems a waste to get a new fence, PALS, etc to fix it up only to wish you had a cabinet saw. That being said that is a screaming deal on that fence if it is the full blown Biesemeyer clone.

I agree. But is that fence a good one? I've noticed the last few years that there are lots of Bies clones out there that are pretty terrible with lots of flex. If it is a good one, then yes it is a great price.

[Roger Feeley]

Matt,

I classify table saws into just a few categories

Benchtop direct drive saw are mostly junk.

Contractor saws are better but have some problems. I had a Powermatic 63 saw with a nice Vega fence and a Delta Uniguard. But there were two big hassles. One was dust collection. The motor and pulley were suspended in back and there was an opening. The other was a big pain but not insurmountable. The trunion was attached to the table which made adjusting the blade parallel to the miter gauge tracks extremely difficult. This is common to contractor saws. I got mine tuned to .001" but it pretty much took a day. When I sold the saw, I told the guy how to adjust it and told him not to bump the saw getting it home. I never heard if it stayed in adjustment.

Cabinet saws solve the two problems above. The motor is enclosed in a cabinet and the trunion is attached to the cabinet, not the table. This makes adjusting parallelism a snap.

So to your question.
1. I would ask if the motor is enclosed. If it's in back, do what I did. Seal the bottom with a Hole for the DC. Then make wooden baffles that attach to the back of the saw with magnets. they are easy to remove when you cut a bevel and seal the cabinet well enough.
2. I would ask if the trunion is supported by the cabinet or by the table. This isn't a huge deal but you are going to want the blade parallel.
3. Check for runout with a dial indicator.

I don't have the PM63 anymore. It served me well but I sold it off for a SawStop ICS and have never looked back.

[Curt Harms]

I did sort of like Roger did, attached magnets to a couple pieces of ply to mostly enclose the back and made a base with dust collection. It was dumb luck when i made the pieces in the back that I didn't have very strong magnets. It's really easy when tilting the arbor to forget to remove the plywood pieces. Weak magnets mean the plywood pieces are simply pushed out of the way by the belt, no harm done.

I needed the saw to be portable so used what farmers call a gravity box as inspiration. A 3 piece bottom comes together at a door on the bottom of the flat side. I built a 2 X 4 frame and made plywood panels to form the sloped bottom and square back. I put a PVC stub where the door would be on a gravity box for dust collector connection. It worked out quite well. This is what I'm talking about.

http://www.jm-inc.com/gravity_wagon.php

I made my base square and put the square side/dust port in the back so the blade threw the dust toward the dust port. That fence looks a little like the Delta T square fence Home Depot sells

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Delta-Power-Equipment-30-in-T-Square-Fence-and-Rail-System-36-T30T3/205803795

I did notice one detail I'd investigate. The rail looks a lot like my Mule Cab rail. It's simple and sturdy but it won't lift off the rail like the Bies and clones, it has to be slid off the end. This can be inconvenient, especially if you put a router table in a wing.