How is a Shaper safer than a Router Table?

[Chris Rosenberger]

Dev
Out of curiosity what makes a shaper safer then the router table. I just made some doors and such that a friend cut on his shaper to save me from buying bits for the router. He did it in a couple passes and it did come out very nice, but the thing did look pretty scary, which is why I passed on doing it myself. Is it a speed thing?

I saw this question it another thread. I had the same question after reading other posts that were written after the Holiday accidents.

One thing that was left out of the other posts was, what role operator error played in the accidents. It did play a big part. Just like it did 21 years ago when my hand tangled with a tablesaw blade. My hand looked much like Shelley's. I just had a couple shorter fingers.
My first thoughts were not to blame the saw. My first thoughts were, what did I do wrong & how can prevent it from happening again. Shelley also took this aproach by redesigning the fence & making push blocks for the process she was doing. I applaud her for doing it only days after the accident. It took me much longer to just go back to the shop.

I also read statements that a router should never be mounted in a table.
If that is the case then why do companys that build routers aslo sell tables. Also some of the top name pin routers have hand held router motors mounted under there tables.

As for safety. From my experience, a router mounted in a table is less
dangerous than a shaper. I have done alot of work with both. If anything the shaper is more dangerous than a router in a table. The shapers have more power & the cutters are larger.

I have had a routers in tables & shapers for over 30 years. I would never want to be without ether one. But if I could have only one, I would choose a router table. I can do everything with a router table that I can do with a shaper. But there are things I can do with a router table that I can not do with a shaper.

[Mark Singer]

I think they are both dangerous and it really comes down to proper set up...using sleds and hold downs...predicting what can happen and avoiding it...understanding the movement of the cutter relative to the wood, the forces etc..taking multiple passes and removing less material at a time. You must stay in control and not be guessing...posture is very important...your stance should allow you to react quickly! For a long time on SMC members have discussed the safety of the tablesaw...very rarely the router table or shaper....to me the tablesaw is safer and more predicatable
If the ideas mentioned above were used, I don't think any injuries would have occured as we recently witnessed
Even when we recently visited Maloof and he has a reputation of working fast and doing things that to most woodworkers seem unsafe....he took the time to lower the blade guard on the bandsaw...he said "Don't work with any more blade exposed than you need to"

[tod evans]

chris, when c.r.onsrud placed the porter cable 7518 in their low end inverted pin router they did so with a cast iron table and a solid raise/lower mechanism used in conjunction with the overarm guide pin. quite a bit different than the garden variety router table. sears and porter cable have offered a rinky-dink router table that a person can pick up one handed......i don`t really think those are worth discussing.as for why a shaper is safer, you answered your own question. because it is more powerful with a larger cutter anyone with common sense will devise a method of moving the wood safely past the cutter, add to this the fact that the spindle is mounted solidly in cast iron greatly reducing the chance of the cutter moving from its rotation.( how are the router motors in tables mounted?) i`m not trying to convince you or anyone to stop shaping wood whatever way you`re comfortable with, if you feel safe using a router table then by all means continue. the reason i have taken the time to type these observations of mine is because a friend chewed up her fingers and i think it prudent on my part to let those who are just starting woodworking know that there is more than one way to achieve an end.i too have been butchering boards for lotsa years and only speak with the voice of my experience....02 tod

[Chris Rosenberger]

Tod you are right. After thinking about it router bits are alot more scary than shaper cutters.

[Lee DeRaud]

chris, when c.r.onsrud placed the porter cable 7518 in their low end inverted pin router they did so with a cast iron table and a solid raise/lower mechanism used in conjunction with the overarm guide pin. quite a bit different than the garden variety router table. sears and porter cable have offered a rinky-dink router table that a person can pick up one handed......i don`t really think those are worth discussing.I agree that "rinky-dink lift-with-one-hand" router tables aren't worth discussing...but they are not what we've been discussing. And that certainly doesn't describe the router tables in use during the two recently-reported incidents.

as for why a shaper is safer, you answered your own question. because it is more powerful with a larger cutter anyone with common sense will devise a method of moving the wood safely past the cutter...(scratches head) I translate that as "shapers are safer because they're more dangerous"...huh?!? I agree that some operations (like making raised panels) are better left to shapers just because of bit size, but when these two tools are used for appropriate operations, the question stands: what makes a shaper safer than a router table?


...add to this the fact that the spindle is mounted solidly in cast iron greatly reducing the chance of the cutter moving from its rotation.( how are the router motors in tables mounted?)You've lost me completely there. Show of hands: has anybody here ever even heard of someone being injured by a router coming loose from the table?

[Mike Cutler]

Chris.

Just about any tool has the potential to cause serious injury.
If a shaper is safer than a router table, I would hazard that statistical average plays a part.
Everyone has a router, and we become complacent with them, due to their relative size. A shaper table, on the other hand is big. The bits are big, the machine is big. As previously stated, most folks will have the natural instinct to stay away from that cutter head.
When I think "Shaper" , I think "Power Feeder". I don't think that on a router table.
Ironically, knock on wood, my accidents have happened with hand tools. My last mishap cost $400 bucks when a new bandsaw blade uncoiled out of the package on me, sprang back and hit me in the face, teeth first. Cracked, and ruined my glasses, left my left cheek looking like I'd lost an argument with a big ol' alleycat.
It always pays to go slow, especially around Christmas when everyone is pressed for time.

[Steve Clardy]

My thoughts on shapers vs router tables.

I always thought a shaper was more dangerous, due to bit size, horse power.
But. After running both shapers and routers in tables, thinking back, I have never had a shaper scare. I've had them catch the wood and slightly throw it, but never had a disaster with one. I due respect a shaper more than a router table.
But I've had more mishaps with a router in a table. Catching stock and slinging it across the shop, pulling hide off my fingers. I have never gotten my hands or fingers in a router bit. Just knocked the hide off of them when the wood goes slinging away from me.
So which is more dangerous? My thoughts lean more towards a router table being more dangerous anymore.
But I run router tables more than I do my shaper.
About the only thing I use a shaper for is raised panels, and an ocassional hand rail, with power feeder.

[tod evans]

chris, you decide wich way to do the 3/4" roundover?26706

[Barry O'Mahony]

I had the same reaction to the other thread. I think it comes down to "power feeders are safer than hand-held".

[tod evans]

I agree that "rinky-dink lift-with-one-hand" router tables aren't worth discussing...but they are not what we've been discussing. And that certainly doesn't describe the router tables in use during the two recently-reported incidents.
(scratches head) I translate that as "shapers are safer because they're more dangerous"...huh?!? I agree that some operations (like making raised panels) are better left to shapers just because of bit size, but when these two tools are used for appropriate operations, the question stands: what makes a shaper safer than a router table?
lee, the design of a shaper,cast iron top,solid spindle,a fence bolted solidly to the table are my preference. the router tables i have seen in the magazines use a drop-in router base and an aluminum fence held to the wooden top with small bolts and thumb screws. i opt for the more substantial cutter and fence mounting of a shaper.
You've lost me completely there. Show of hands: has anybody here ever even heard of someone being injured by a router coming loose from the table? here again i am only speculating but with a "drop-in" router the likeliyhood of the cutter being able to deviate from its proscribed path is far greater than that of a shaper. i don`t believe i ever infered that the router would come loose from the table but any movement of the spinning cutter from its proscribed path makes loss of controll more likely..... as i said this is only food for thought, do whatever feels right to you..02 tod sorry, the computer has out witted me again, i can`t figure out how to highlite the issues you raised???????

[Chris Rosenberger]

chris, you decide wich way to do the 3/4" roundover?26706

That is not a problem for me.

[Paul B. Cresti]

Ok now that we are done showing each other our "muscles" ;) (can I include mine too?:) ) I think the basic point is sometimes we can get very comfortable with a router in a table. Most of the time is is hand fed and no matter what you add there is always some type of close-like involvement with your hands. With a shaper, most have feeders on them so it just about completely takes you away from the cutter. If you own a sliding table shaper like both Tod and I have you clamp your stock down and slide away. Can shaper cutters be massive? yes they sure can but I am not near them when they are turning my feeder is protecting me in more ways than one. A shaper can do anything a router table can but a router table can not do what a shaper can. I own both also but once I had my shaper I choose that over my router table all the time.

[tod evans]

i would like to appoligize for getting folks dander up. my intention was not to provoke arguement for the sake of arguement. we all have our own ways of doing things and each of us believe we are doing right by ourselves. right now each and every one of us is looking at that next cutter set-up in a new light........... good! tod

[Lee DeRaud]

here again i am only speculating but with a "drop-in" router the likeliyhood of the cutter being able to deviate from its proscribed path is far greater than that of a shaper. i don`t believe i ever infered that the router would come loose from the table but any movement of the spinning cutter from its proscribed path makes loss of controll more likely...And that's where you lost me: the "movement from its proscribed path" translates (to me at least) as "the router moved". Coming loose from the table is the only way I can see that happening on a quality router table.
sorry, the computer has out witted me again, i can`t figure out how to highlite the issues you raised???????See the little "text balloon" icon just to the left of the "#" icon? That wraps any selected text in quote markers.

[Lee DeRaud]

Ok now that we are done showing each other our "muscles" ;) (can I include mine too?:) ) I think the basic point is sometimes we can get very comfortable with a router in a table. Most of the time is is hand fed and no matter what you add there is always some type of close-like involvement with your hands. With a shaper, most have feeders on them so it just about completely takes you away from the cutter. If you own a sliding table shaper like both Tod and I have you clamp your stock down and slide away. Can shaper cutters be massive? yes they sure can but I am not near them when they are turning my feeder is protecting me in more ways than one. A shaper can do anything a router table can but a router table can not do what a shaper can.Dumb question: how does the feeder on a shaper handle templates?

[Chris Rosenberger]

My main point was that statement that router tables have no place in the shop. Both router tables & shapers have a place in the shop. Like all machines in the shop they can be as safe or as dangerous as the operator allows. The point of all the pictures is that I have options for different types of work. I would not edge a 16' piece of base on a router table nor would I edge a 3" X 3" trophy base on a shaper.

[Dev Emch]

If the router table guys ever get a chance to drive a nice shaper cutter, they will not go back.:D

At the end of the day, router tables, routers, pin routers, shapers and vertical milling machines are all examples of spinning spindles turning a cutting device.

What makes the router table so onry is the design of its knives. I thought I already talked about this yesterday? Because of design differences between the two, the shaper cutter is less prown to profile burning, blow out, work item grabing and premature dulling than the same profile found in a router bit. The smaller cutting circle also provides a better opportunity for this small bit to "suck" your fingers into the knives after it grabs your work item.

Now you can take many many many many and did I say many more cuts with a router bit than a shaper cutter. A shaper cutter can pulverize lumber into hamster bedding in a single pass without all the afore mentioned issues.

Shapers are often more substantial and have more robust fencing systems which actually enclose the cutter head. For the most part, you should always keep the cutter head enclosed for safety and dust collection pourposes. You should also strive to make the opening as narrow as possible and to use a zero insert setup whenever possible. I know, I know, I know, in my pictures of my shaper, I have violated this. But I also have a massive and I do mean massive cast iron, ball bearing sliding table with an eccentric hold down clamp to keep Mr. Pinky compliant with my 8 inch rule. See my hoffman pictures for more details here....

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=19608&highlight=belated+gloat

Now when it comes to dados and grooves, we have a new problem. The best way to cut a dado on a shaper in the middle of the panel is to use a spiral flute cutter similar to a vertical end mill. Most of you guys own at least one of these bits now from 1/4 in and up. This requires most shapers to have a dedicated collet spindle and then, most often dont run as fast as they should for this type of cut. But you can still get excellent results by backing off your feed rates. For doing blind grooves in case sides or drawer sides, this bit is indispensible. Ironicly, this is also where a router excels. The router runs at a much higher speed and has much lighter bearings making it ideal to handle small, narrow bits of this type.

Cutting dados on the edges of panels or the edges of boards is once again best done using a groover or dado/rebate head on the shaper. I can get about 8 inchs of lift out of my spindle so any groove in the side of panel within this limit can be done using my Leitz adjustable groover head. Results are great.

As many have already mentioned, power feeders improve safety. They also improve quality. In woods like maple and cheery, stopping the feed to reposition your hands almost guarantees a burn mark. A power feeder elminates this. The power feeder also keeps most body parts from comming within the 8 in limit of those knives. Often, I can no longer usually see my cutter head. I just line up the board on the fence and table and as soon as the feeder grabs it, its done. Perfect cut and no finger loss risk.

You can put a feeder on a router table and smaller ones are actually a joy on router tables. But a regular sized feeder will tip a router table over!

As previously mentioned, router bits have a weakened design. Those huge 3 inch plus cutters were cut from a billet and the core is now the stem. But the core is also the weakest section of the billet. Most of this can be eliminated by using a steel such as 1144 but not all bit makers go to this expense and even fewer of them use hardened and tempered 4140 chrome molley. So here is another reason to opt for a shaper cutter in place of a router bit.

Many have said that you can use a router table for everything you can use a shaper on. This is simply misguided. A router table does do an excellent job on smaller, less demanding profiles but there are many moulding and coping cuts done on shapers where motors of 5 through 10 HP are being taxed.

And lastly. The shaper is the most important machine in my shop. I can set the shaper up to do most any operation that other machines can do. Now clearly, I cannot make a shaper function as a lathe or disc sander but being reasonable, this statement is valid. Edge jointing is easily done on a shaper and if you only need a 6 inch jointer, you may consider doing away with the jointer in exchange for a nice jointing head for your shaper.

As to comments regarding pin routers. First of all, many consider the pin router obsolete. Second, pin routers often use the much smaller cutters with which I have no issues. Third, pin routers like some by C.R. Onsrud, (i.e. inverted ones), actually use a type of heavy duty router motor. This is not the same motor in your PC 690 or 7518 router. Lastly, many older dedicated pin routers where much more substantial than you give the credit for. I have an Onsrud 244 that I am rebuilding and it must weigh about 2000 pounds. I am removing the orig table and installing a milling machine type alternate table. This will give the functionality of a wood cutting milling machine. The guide pin is still in the table by the way so you can still do pattern template shaping on this machine. I got this machine as scrap so its more of a pet project but it gave me a chance to see what a true pin router from yesterday was about. The bearings are insane and the motor is a two speed motor giving me both 10K ad 20K at the spindle. Note that this Onsrud was made by the old man and not the son who came up with the green and white, inverted pin routers.

Back to vertical cutters. Right now, I find I have more control and more accuracy by using a micro fence than by using a router table. The micro fence gives me a micrometer adjustment system that is second to none. And I get to keep both paws on the router when using it.

Now you can run router bits on a shaper and I have actually designed and machined the tooling to do this. I like to think that this gives me a wee bit more understanding than just throwing a bit on a router table or shaper.

http://www.woodcentral.com/shots/shot466.shtml

Hope this helps a bit.... just dont take my views to the local SMC coffee shop to pay for your joe.... you may also need your credit card.:rolleyes:

[Mark Singer]

I would just like to add....this is a very informative thread and even if the router table fokes stick with the router tables , they can now think more about proper set ups and emulate certain aspects that shapers offer

[Dev Emch]

Mark is right. If your using a router table, mimick the setups used by shapers and you should be O.K.

And we all have our own viewpoints which is better. You say tomatoe and I say tomaaatoe. But at the end of the day, I still have to think that t router table is what you get when you allow cousins to marry. Its the inbred proginy of shapers.:rolleyes:

[Chris Rosenberger]

Mark is right. If your using a router table, mimick the setups used by shapers and you should be O.K.

And we all have our own viewpoints which is better. You say tomatoe and I say tomaaatoe. But at the end of the day, I still have to think that t router table is what you get when you allow cousins to marry. Its the inbred proginy of shapers.:rolleyes:

Now why did you have to get personal. No one insulted your family.:mad:

[Per Swenson]

I am sorry in advance.

I really shouldn't reply to these threads,

but in light of my strong opinion on these matters

I feel I must. As with the "Most dangerous tool thread" and

the various "I gave my RAS away threads".

Folks, it is not the tool but the human driving it.

Also the human responsible for set up.

If your not paying attention you are gonna

cut the end of you finger with a hand chisel.

You have to keep a healthy respect for all things.

Cars, firearms, stoves, bunk beds, biker bars, you get the Idea.

Per

[Chris Rosenberger]

Well stated Per.

[Allen Bookout]

It would be real interesting to see statistics on injuries incured using shapers vs router tables. Does anyone know of such a study? It comes to my mind that the shaper users are mostly professionals that are experts at what they do and that could contribute to the lack of accidents. A small group of us are amatures that just cannot justify the cost of a worthwhile shaper and their associated power feeders. I suppose that we could justify the cost if we end up loosing some fingers over it. In any case, if the danger is too great the pursuit of woodworking should cease. I am left wondering.

[Dev Emch]

Hmmmm, biker bars. You mean like rideing bikes on the wall of death in daytona?

I think its a valid point that more newbies are using router tables and more folks with experience are using shapers. That demographic makes sense. The sales guys will set you up with all this new tooling and have UPS drop it off to your door.

But Per is right. Walking into the Boot Hill Saloon in Daytona during Bike Week and yelling Harley obcenities will most likely result in a trip to Halifax General.

In the end, the most dangerous tool in your shop is the one with the most notches carved in its handgrip and that is up to you.

[Bill Lewis]

You have to keep a healthy respect for all things.

Cars, firearms, stoves, bunk beds, biker bars, you get the Idea.
PerExplosives...
I just had to throw that one in. I've been working with high explosives (DoD USN RDT&E Engineer) for about 18 years now so you learn to have a healthy respect for things that can hurt you. There's not any second chances with explosives, but still, they are safer to handle than you'd think. It's how they are used/applied that makes the difference.

[Brian Jarnell]

I try to remember that all these tools are out to get me,it's when I forget the problems start.
The old,familiarity breeds contempt.

[jack duren]

over the yrs ive seen less injuries on shapers than tablesaws and am a victim of the tablesaw myself but shapers are much more dangerous in my opinion. i consider shapers and router tables to be the same only router tables wont handle the more aggressive bits.

[Brian Jarnell]

Just came in from using my spindle moulder,a bit flew off the piece of wood I was rounding the off,making some Adirondack chairs,wasn't dangerous,but a good reminder.

[Paul Canaris]

Which is safer has not been what drives me to use both, as there both dangerous. It's more ease of use and what works better in a given situation. For me the router table approach seems to be a bit easier to set up for ones or two's. The shaper is the way to go when doing a lot of parts and you need speed. Also, I can cut tennons on my shaper/sliding table (2.5" deep in a single pass) that I cannot cut on a router table. I really don’t like using larger cutter’s (i.e. panel raisers) on a router table either.

[Jack Clark]

Please forgive me if this sounds stupid--I know nothing about routers. But I am considering the purchase of one.

After a little reading, talking with experienced users and watching Norm's first installment of Router 101 last Saturday, I have a slightly better idea of what routers can do--both good (wow!) and bad (yuck).

I'm particularly interested in using the EZ-Smart guide system with a router. I'm also very interested in keeping all ten fingers intact. In light of the excellent discussions in this thread of router table vs shaper, how does the guided router (Festool and EZ-Smart) fit into the safety formula? Are they safer than a router table? Less safe than a shaper? More safe than both, but less useful for the woodworking effect you want?

Thank you

[tod evans]

jack, what are you trying to accomplish with a guided system? you`re asking a very broad question that i don`t think there is a pat answer for. i`ve never driven either of the guide systems you ask about but do use homemade versions for such things as fluting. routers and shapers are very versitle machines but either will make short work of flesh-n-bone if you let the cutter come in contact with your body. every woodworker can use several routers, and most can/could use a shaper or three. the safety of any piece of equipment is up to the operator and it will be up to you to learn the limits and capabilities of your equipment.......02 tod

[Chris Barton]

A shaper can do anything a router table can but a router table can not do what a shaper can.

Paul,

I respectfully disagree. Can your shaper make stop mortices in pieces as small as 3/8" thick, or cut HB or through dovetails, or cut loose mortice and tennon joints, or pricise sliding dovetails in small parts, or pattern cut recesses...

Both tools have the capability to do harm. Interestingly, the term "shaper" and "powerfeed" seem to go hand in hand, and I really think that's because people want to "keep" their hands. I haven't needed a powerfeed for my router station yet.

[Paul B. Cresti]

Hey Chris,
If I remember correctly :confused: I was trying to compare a router IN A TABLE vs a shaper. Now granted my shaper is one with a power feeder and sliding table with an outrigger table + crosscut fence and support arm, so it is not just a simple shaper.

I do not think the inventor of the router ever had intended it to be mounted, upside down in a table. It was most likely designed to cut dados, rabits, and profiles on stock edges. It was other people that came up with these other ideas for its use. Lets face it, mounted in a table it is nothing other than a cheap way to get a shaper, hey no problem with that as I have done it too. A shaper with the necessary jigs and add ons is one of the most versatile machines in a woodworking shop. You can do anything from molding, to joints, to pattern shaping, to dado's, to tenoning, to.......... It is also one of the most misunderstood and thus dangerous machines in the shop. I think part of the reasons are that people may come from a router table to a shaper and expect it to be the same.

Both a router table and shaper can cause some serious damage if not respected. Some of the uses you pointed out should/can only be done with a router in free hand mode. Just because you can do some of those items or small stock with a router table it does not mean you should! It only gives you a false sense of safety...just ask Shelly or Matt... a router table sure can bite badly. I am sure if you asked them if they could go back and have spent an extra 4-500$ on a power feeder to have avoided their injury, I think they would have.

[Jack Clark]

[QUOTE=tod evans]jack, what are you trying to accomplish with a guided system? you`re asking a very broad question that i don`t think there is a pat answer for.

Well, first off, I don't want to derail this excellent safety discussion into a debate on best techniques. I think my very first use of a router would be to make some crisp 45 degree edges for mitered joints on simple boxes of various sizes up to about 12" x 24." I'm not sure if the Festool or the EZ-Smart guided router setups, when equipped with a 45 chamfer bit, are even suitalble for this task.

It just appears to me that these guided systems may be safer. Your hands are on the machine's handles, and, in a sense, a third hand is holding the device too. I guess my question is, do you trade off performance for that (perceived?) safety?

[Chris Barton]

Hey Chris,
If I remember correctly :confused: I was trying to compare a router IN A TABLE vs a shaper.

Good Morning Paul,

That is exactly what I am talking about. I can do all of those things with my Bosch 1619EVS mounted in my router table. I kind of figure that the inventor of the circular saw didn't see it being used with a captive rail system but, lots of people do and it is probably a much safer way to use the machine.:)

[Jim Becker]

Safety Note:

Relative to the router, it's important to remember that larger cutters (over about an inch and a quarter in diameter) MUST be used with the router mounted in a table. They shouldn't be used hand-held NOR with a guide system which is still, for all practical purposes, a hand-held application. The speed of the machine also must be reduced with these cutters.

[J.R. Rutter]

I too have shapers and a router table. Which one I use for any given task depends on setup time, cut quality, safety, available tooling, and the nature of the cut.

I've learned the hard way to LISTEN to that little voice inside that says "Hmmm, what if . . ." If I get uneasy about it, I don't do it. Running big bits in the router table scares me. Running little bits in the shaper seems like a hassle.

In the end, it's 80% how you drive, and 20% what you drive. Cause no matter how defensively you drive that Yugo (and no, I'm not comparing a router table to a Yugo), some drunk can still come blasting across the median.

[Jack Clark]

Safety Note:

Relative to the router, it's important to remember that larger cutters (over about an inch and a quarter in diameter) MUST be used with the router mounted in a table. They shouldn't be used hand-held NOR with a guide system which is still, for all practical purposes, a hand-held application. The speed of the machine also must be reduced with these cutters.

Okay Jim, thanks for this important fact. As I said earlier, I know basically nothing about routers.

So, hypothetically speaking, if I wanted to use a router to mill a nice clean 45 degree edge on 3/4" stock, the safest method is to have the router mounted in an appropriately equipped table rather than attached to one of the guided rail systems?

[tod evans]

jack, do you have a table saw? that is how i cut 45`s on long pieces... i also see no reason that a skillsaw run on guiderails couldn`t give you the edge you`re looking for? i`d think with a router and a guiderail using a chamfer bit that the edge would come out with some scallops in it, whatever the amount of clearance is needed for the carrier to move on the rail would be the depth of the scallops...02 tod

[Jack Clark]

jack, do you have a table saw? that is how i cut 45`s on long pieces...

I do have a contractors table saw. But, in keeping with the safety theme of this thread, it scares me. I'm really trying to get away from it. In fact, I plan on selling it. I'm just doing occasional home projects. I'm a little disappointed with the first few 45 degree bevel cuts I tried with my EZ system and PC circular saw (it may be the operator and not the tool). The 90 degree cuts are really clean though. Ah fooey, I'm straying from the subject of this thread--sorry. Perhaps I should start a new thread titled, "Best Way to Make 45 Bevel Cuts without TS?"

[Dev Emch]

Paul,

I respectfully disagree. Can your shaper make stop mortices in pieces as small as 3/8" thick, or cut HB or through dovetails, or cut loose mortice and tennon joints, or pricise sliding dovetails in small parts, or pattern cut recesses...

Both tools have the capability to do harm. Interestingly, the term "shaper" and "powerfeed" seem to go hand in hand, and I really think that's because people want to "keep" their hands. I haven't needed a powerfeed for my router station yet.

I have to agree with Paul on this one. A good shaper can do almost anything. In regard to cutting those precise joints. A shaper can cut those in as far as a router can. I think your point arrises from your selection of fence systems. If I am not mistaken, your using an Incra fence on a router table. That fence can be adapted to a shaper with the same ease if not more so than it can to a router table.

In regard to stop dados and stop mortises. I can cut those as well. But here your entering into one major difference between many shapers and routers. A router table is more geared for vertical oriented bits whereas a shaper is geared for horizontal bits. The cutting action for these native bits is orthogonal to each other. But now we have cross over. Many router bits resemble shaper cutters with stems and shapers are able to run collet spindles with vertical oriented router bits. I have posted pictures of one such collet spindle I designed and made.

Even so, I find it extremely dangerous to attempt to cut floating mortise and tenon joinery on a router table. Esp. the end grain cuts. This is best done using a specialized homemade router jig or a multi router. I will not attempt this on a router table without specialized hold down and guidance features. This is one area where the multi router may have all solutions beat!

The power feeder on my shaper is mounted not on the shaper but on a swing away feeder mount. This allows me to quickly swing the feeder completely out of the way when not needed. I like to use feeders when I am running moulding. Thats right, moulding! A good shaper can run any profile moulding a moulder can albeit usually with multiple runs. That is because a shaper has one spindle and a moulder has four or five. Of course, your in the same boat with the W&H moulder since it has but one cutting head. In fact, I use Wynig moulder heads on my shaper with a 40 mm spindle. I also use tiny CMT router bits using a panhans HSK collet spindle. So that is the extreme that one can run on a good shaper.

The biggest advantage to using a feeder is one's ability to produce long straight and crisp lines without burn marks or jogs. Each time you have to reposition your hands for the feed, you run the risk of burning your work or jogging the detail of your work. For example, try cutting a small ogee profile on a ten foot long section of say baseboard moulding or cutting the moulding cut on some rail and stile stock. Granted if you cut all rail and stile parts before shaping, you can run the stuff with a single hand hold. But I run this stuff in ten foot lengths and cut to fit as needed. So I find most folks are less concerned about safety than about quality of cut when they add a power feeder.

The point remains. Modern tool makers have been trying to build and sell stuff that adapts the once portable router into a shaper. Jessem et al has done some pretty good looking stuff. But if you buy a car and the salesmen at various dealers keep comparing their car to a honda, then it does not take long to figure out you should be at the honda dealer instead.