Help with dead car battery

[Bert Kemp]

So my car sat for 11 days after my knee replacement. yesterday I thought I could get out and strt the car, well the battery was dead. So I put the charger on for about 5 hrs and it started fine, shut it off and left it on charge till almost dark another 3 hrs. This morning I went out and the battery is dead again.

So my question is .....is there a meter or a way to test and see if their is a draw on the battery when all is shut off??

[Jerome Stanek]

You can have an auto parts store check the battery charge it up before you go and they will test it under load to see if any cells are bad.

[Bryan Lisowski]

IN today's cars there is always something requiring the battery. Most likely it would be better to buy a new battery.

[Bert Kemp]

the battery is less then a year old was bran new last July, Thats why I'm thinking I have a draw someplace.Is there a way to check that. I mean sure theres alway some draw but would take more then whats natural to drain the battery over night.

[Paul F Franklin]

Assuming it isn't an ancient model, you would get a dash warning if the alternator wasn't delivering current (charging the battery). The exact warning varies from model to model and year to year, but if you have no warning indicators lit when the engine is running, then you either have something drawing a lot of power when the engine isn't running (unlikely assuming you didn't leave lights on or similar) or a bad battery, most likely a dead cell. As Jerome mentioned, any auto parts store will be happy to test it for you and most will install the new battery, if required, for free. Automakers are using smaller batteries these days to save weight, and will all the power needs of modern cars they just don't seem to last as long as they used to.

[JERRY BRINKMAN]

Assuming it isn't an ancient model, you would get a dash warning if the alternator wasn't delivering current (charging the battery). The exact warning varies from model to model and year to year, but if you have no warning indicators lit when the engine is running, then you either have something drawing a lot of power when the engine isn't running (unlikely assuming you didn't leave lights on or similar) or a bad battery, most likely a dead cell. As Jerome mentioned, any auto parts store will be happy to test it for you and most will install the new battery, if required, for free. Automakers are using smaller batteries these days to save weight, and will all the power needs of modern cars they just don't seem to last as long as they used to.
You can connect an amp meter in series with either battery cable or using and inductive amp clamp. Draw should be under 75 milliamps after all modules go to sleep, (may take up to 45 minutes on some models). If there is a excessive draw now the hard part is next. You must determine which circuit is the problem. This is not a task for the average person or unskilled mechanic.

[George Bokros]

I had a battery that was less than a year old and when I had my car serviced they found the battery was bad, not dead but unde rthe spec cranking amps of the battery. Replaced under the battery warranty. Get it checked at a parts store. They can also check it in the car.

[Brian Henderson]

That happened to my daughter's car over the summer. We put a new battery in her car, it died after 24 hours. There was a switch somewhere that failed and her rear lights stayed on all the time and that just drained the battery. It was a $200 repair. Get the battery checked out to make sure it holds a charge, then look deeper if necessary.

[Bert Kemp]

I'll have it checked at Oreilys here but I bought it at batteries plus in AZ won't be back there for a few weeks yet, if it needs replacing I guess I'll have to eat it LOL ahhhaaa just checked and see theres a batteries plus here in NH. its 50 miles but if the battery is dead its worth the drive for a free or prorated replacement.

[Jerome Stanek]

Assuming it isn't an ancient model, you would get a dash warning if the alternator wasn't delivering current (charging the battery). The exact warning varies from model to model and year to year, but if you have no warning indicators lit when the engine is running, then you either have something drawing a lot of power when the engine isn't running (unlikely assuming you didn't leave lights on or similar) or a bad battery, most likely a dead cell. As Jerome mentioned, any auto parts store will be happy to test it for you and most will install the new battery, if required, for free. Automakers are using smaller batteries these days to save weight, and will all the power needs of modern cars they just don't seem to last as long as they used to.

I just had an alternator go out and there was no warning. It just died on the road Luckly I was near a church that had some people working and they charged my battery enough to get me home I was just about to call road side assistance. I changed the alternator and charged the battery and have not had any more trouble that was about a month ago.

[Dan Friedrichs]

You can connect an amp meter in series with either battery cable or using and inductive amp clamp. Draw should be under 75 milliamps after all modules go to sleep, (may take up to 45 minutes on some models). If there is a excessive draw now the hard part is next. You must determine which circuit is the problem. This is not a task for the average person or unskilled mechanic.

Be careful with the amp clamp - the cheap ones usually only measure AC.

But otherwise, yes. Put the meter in series with the battery and measure draw. Pull fuses until you've found something drawing too much...

[Bill Orbine]

Disconnect battery. After it's fully charged, check voltage later(next day) after first reading and compare. If significant voltage drop, battery is likely bad. If good voltage, something on the vehicle is likely draining battery. This is just very simple basic if you not have the tools.

[Bert Kemp]

thanks I'll try this as Im not good with meters I have a voltage meter but not sure what they mean by meter in series with battery?

[Ronald Blue]

Batteries can and do fail even when they are not very old. However get it tested. The newer digital battery testers are very good at identifying battery issues. They dial in the CC Amps and let it cycle. Sometimes it will just say charge and restest. If you pull the negative cable off after you have fully charged it and wait until the next morning to reconnect it that also will confirm if it's an unacceptable current draw. If it is a battery issue it will still go dead or at least lose charge. As Dan says you will be hard pressed to find a clamp on meter with DC current measuring capabilities that won't set you back well over the cost of the battery. Keep us posted on what you find.

[John K Jordan]

So my question is .....is there a meter or a way to test and see if their is a draw on the battery when all is shut off??

Not sure this was answered, but what he meant by connecting a meter "in series" was to disconnect one terminal and touch one probe of the amp meter to the disconnected clamp and the other to the battery post. If using a multimeter be sure to first switch to the amperage mode and use the highest amp range first to avoid blowing the internal fuse - for many meters this requires plugging one probe into a different socket on the meter. Sir Google will gladly provide instructions, diagrams, and videos on how to do all this.

If you get no reading in the highest amperage range on the meter, check at successively lower ranges. However, be advised that most cars will draw some small amount of current at all times even when the switch is turned off. The key is how much current. If you do this someone would have to check the typical draw.

All that said, the first thing I would do is remove both battery clamps and clean the inside of each and the both battery posts. A wire brush tool available at Walmart or any auto place makes this easy but I have cleaned them with coarse sandpaper or scraped with a screwdriver or pocket knife. A tiny bit of corrosion in the connection can keep even a good charging system from fully charging a good battery. I did this recently and "revived" a 15 year-old battery in my tractor.

I would personally clean the connections even if I planned to take the car to an auto parts store for testing.

JKJ

[Grant Wilkinson]

What is the make and model of your car? You may find on a forum about that car that there is a known frequent failure that draws power. On my car, for example, it's a known that the hands free Bluetooth module fails and will kill a battery over night.

[Brian Henderson]

thanks I'll try this as Im not good with meters I have a voltage meter but not sure what they mean by meter in series with battery?

If you have a battery charger, they almost always include a rudimentary meter on them.

[Jim Koepke]

A good charge on a batter should give a voltage reading in the 13V range with the car not running. When the car is running and the alternator is charging a volt meter will read in the 14V range.

Watch the meter when the car is turned off. The reading should be fairly steady. If it is dropping something is draining the battery.

In the old days we used to just disconnect the cable while in the shade and touch the cable to the battery terminal and watch for a spark. The bigger the load, the bigger the spark. That doesn't work well with todays system because some will draw a large current when reconnected, causing a larger spark.

A decent amp meter is a better way to monitor battery drain with the system turned off. As mentioned previously, removing one fuse at a time can help isolate what is causing the drain on the battery if it isn't a bad battery or charging system.

Beyond this, trying to explain how to measure electrical circuits and explain the problems that can ensue could take a lot of time and effort.

jtk

[Bert Kemp]

Thanks for the replies, its been pouring rain all day so have no had a chance to try any of these things hope tomorrow is better, I'll let ya knoow

[Brady Watson]

FYI - Don't just go buy another one without realizing that the one you have most likely has a pro-rated warranty...If it has a 5yr warranty, you'll only pay 1yr worth of use.

Some batteries, regardless of how new they are 'go bad' because one of the cells shorted out etc. I stopped buying Optima batteries @ $140-200 ea because I got 2 bad ones in the same year. Previous ones lasted 8 years...

To save your sanity ~ and to buy you time to diagnose the issue, here's what I'd do - I would get a new battery and a post-top battery disconnect switch. This can function as an anti-theft device later...but it will let you save the charge on your new battery should you determine that there is a short happening somewhere without the need to pull cables every night and give you piece of mind if you want to take your favorite girl out to the movies or something without worry.

In terms of diagnosis...my path would be to print out a fuse box schematic & start probing circuits with the ignition key out/off and see if you're drawing power from anything that shouldn't be on. Naturally you'll get a hit on the courtesy/dome lights, but you shouldn't have a draw at too many other places. Check the schematic to see where you get a hit and that should point to the problem.

Look on Amazon etc for "battery terminal switch"

Good luck!

[Paul F Franklin]

Be aware that with many newer cars, disconnecting the battery without using a memory saver or similar device can erase radio settings, saved seat settings, phone pairing data, and the like. Maybe not a big deal, but my wife probably has 30 or 40 radio presets on her car between AM/FM and satellite......She would not be happy if she had to redo them all.

[Bert Kemp]

FYI - Don't just go buy another one without realizing that the one you have most likely has a pro-rated warranty...If it has a 5yr warranty, you'll only pay 1yr worth of use.

Some batteries, regardless of how new they are 'go bad' because one of the cells shorted out etc. I stopped buying Optima batteries @ $140-200 ea because I got 2 bad ones in the same year. Previous ones lasted 8 years...

To save your sanity ~ and to buy you time to diagnose the issue, here's what I'd do - I would get a new battery and a post-top battery disconnect switch. This can function as an anti-theft device later...but it will let you save the charge on your new battery should you determine that there is a short happening somewhere without the need to pull cables every night and give you piece of mind if you want to take your favorite girl out to the movies or something without worry.

In terms of diagnosis...my path would be to print out a fuse box schematic & start probing circuits with the ignition key out/off and see if you're drawing power from anything that shouldn't be on. Naturally you'll get a hit on the courtesy/dome lights, but you shouldn't have a draw at too many other places. Check the schematic to see where you get a hit and that should point to the problem.

Look on Amazon etc for "battery terminal switch"

Good luck!

Never heard of that but will definitely get one it will save my sanity for sure , but maybe wait till after takin my girl out if ya know what I mean LOL:D

[Brian Henderson]

Be aware that with many newer cars, disconnecting the battery without using a memory saver or similar device can erase radio settings, saved seat settings, phone pairing data, and the like. Maybe not a big deal, but my wife probably has 30 or 40 radio presets on her car between AM/FM and satellite......She would not be happy if she had to redo them all.

Most new cars have a backup battery that saves all of those things for at least a short while. Otherwise, you could never change a bad battery!

[Jim Koepke]

Most new cars have a backup battery that saves all of those things for at least a short while. Otherwise, you could never change a bad battery!

When a technician changes a batterie in a shop they often connect a 12V power supply to the car, change the battery and nothing is lost. A person could likely also use a battery charger. Be careful with the positive battery cable if you do this. If it hits ground you will wish had paid attention.

In my car, it all just gets reset as needed after disconnecting the battery or replacing the battery.

jtk

[Bill Orbine]

Be aware that with many newer cars, disconnecting the battery without using a memory saver or similar device can erase radio settings, saved seat settings, phone pairing data, and the like. Maybe not a big deal, but my wife probably has 30 or 40 radio presets on her car between AM/FM and satellite......She would not be happy if she had to redo them all.
Are you concerned with that when the battery already has been dead?

[Jason Roehl]

Are you concerned with that when the battery already has been dead?

There are different degrees of "dead" when it comes to car batteries. The first is that it won't start because that requires a HUGE amount of energy from the battery. Such a battery that is just below the charge threshold needed to start a car can easily power the radio, interior lights, even run power windows, but those things start dropping off as well. Way down on the list of power requirements are memory settings in the chassis computer (seats, pedals, etc.) and the radio presets, as internally those electronics probably only need about 5V. A 12V car battery is a nominal voltage (in name only)--if your battery reads 12.0V, it probably won't start. A bare minimum would be about 12.5-12.6V in my experience, and a new, fully-charged battery can be over 13V, all of this with the car not running. With it running, a working alternator will show 13.5-14.5V on the battery.

[Grant Wilkinson]

A bit off topic, but I worked in a shop that replaced batteries daily. We had a device that you can find online that plugged into the accessory socket (used to be the cigarette lighter socket). The device contained a 9 volt battery and with that plugged in, you could disconnect the car battery without killing any of the electronic presets like seat positions, radio presets, etc. The units are pretty cheap and handy to have around.

[Bert Kemp]

Not worried about losing settings or anything like that. All I want to know is if theres an abnormal draw on the battery when the car is off or if the battery is bad. I put the charger on it early this morning will let it charge till the charger shuts off. I will then let it sit over night disconnected and see what it read in the morning. Or maybe be3 bold and take it to auto shop and have them check it .My problem with that is they can always say its bad just to sell me a new battery and those places always have high priced battery's:eek:

[Brian Henderson]

When a technician changes a batterie in a shop they often connect a 12V power supply to the car, change the battery and nothing is lost. A person could likely also use a battery charger. Be careful with the positive battery cable if you do this. If it hits ground you will wish had paid attention.

In my car, it all just gets reset as needed after disconnecting the battery or replacing the battery.

jtk

Whereas mine, which was just in for work, didn't. I got it back with all of the settings retained. I guess it depends on the car.

[John K Jordan]

Whereas mine, which was just in for work, didn't [use an aux 12v ps]. I got it back with all of the settings retained. I guess it depends on the car.

A simple addition of an appropriate capacitor to a DC circuit can supply low current levels for a significant time to hold settings. Perhaps some of the car makers do this. Also, non-volatile memory is so cheap now that they could easily use it to preserve settings in today's computer-controlled cars.

Tidbit: In the '80s I had a small "super capacitor" that would run a small 5-volt DC motor for maybe 10 minutes. Very expensive then.

JKJ

[Brady Watson]

...those places always have high priced battery's:eek:

It should still have a pro-rated warranty...don't let them rope-a-dope you.

Hopefully you're able to find a good mechanic that doesn't just throw parts at it on your dime...anybody can do that.

Not sure what the big deal is about losing radio/clock settings...are we that spoiled?

[Jim Koepke]

Whereas mine, which was just in for work, didn't. I got it back with all of the settings retained. I guess it depends on the car.

It could also depend on the person working on the car.

Was it in for work that required them to disconnect the battery?

Maybe they used one of the methods that keeps it from losing memory of settings when the battery is disconnected.


[edited]
Or maybe be3 bold and take it to auto shop and have them check it .My problem with that is they can always say its bad just to sell me a new battery and those places always have high priced battery's:eek:

Most shops are honest and do not need to pull crap like this. Take it to a shop that will honor the battery's warrantee. Most shops have someone on board who can do some preliminary trouble shooting. They do not want to keep replacing a battery under warrantee if something else is the problem.

We know your battery is less than a year from new. We do not know what kind of vehicle it is in. My Chevy Tahoe is getting close to its twentieth year. It is having various little problems. It seems it is time for me to replace the battery cable, but that hasn't been fully determined of yet.

jtk

[Curt Harms]

<snip>
All that said, the first thing I would do is remove both battery clamps and clean the inside of each and the both battery posts. A wire brush tool available at Walmart or any auto place makes this easy but I have cleaned them with coarse sandpaper or scraped with a screwdriver or pocket knife. A tiny bit of corrosion in the connection can keep even a good charging system from fully charging a good battery. I did this recently and "revived" a 15 year-old battery in my tractor.

I would personally clean the connections even if I planned to take the car to an auto parts store for testing.

JKJ

Yup, clean the connections. I put a very thin coating of grease or oil on the connector. It doesn't seem to create any noticeable resistance and no corrosion. Perhaps the compound that is used for aluminum to copper connections would be better but I don't have any of that and do have wheel bearing grease soooo.....

[John K Jordan]

Yup, clean the connections. I put a very thin coating of grease or oil on the connector. It doesn't seem to create any noticeable resistance and no corrosion. Perhaps the compound that is used for aluminum to copper connections would be better but I don't have any of that and do have wheel bearing grease soooo.....

That's a good point I forgot to mention. These days I put dielectric grease (silicone) on every battery terminal, light bulb, wiring harness connection, even on breakers in electrical panels, mounted outside or in. You get a little tube of it in an auto electrical kit or at the autoparts store or a much larger container at any electrical supply house.

[Brian Henderson]

It could also depend on the person working on the car.

Was it in for work that required them to disconnect the battery?

Maybe they used one of the methods that keeps it from losing memory of settings when the battery is disconnected.

It was body work that required them to remove the front half of the car for about 6 weeks. Got it back, all of the radio stations were intact.

[Bert Kemp]

Yea not worried about those setting easy enough to put the code in and reset everything.

[Bert Kemp]

Update it is a bad battery. I charged it for a full day, let it sit disconnected for a day and then tried and failed to start the car.This is the second battery I had fail on me in under 2 years from batteries plus bulbs. Even if they will replace or prorate this battery its a hassel, as they want to test the battery themselfs for 24 hrs and their 40 miles away. So what do I do jump my car drive to them and let them test the battery for 24hrs while I sit in the parking lot.LOL NOT!. Think I'm done with them and will go to Wally World get an everstart that has a free 3 year replacement and 2 more year prorated

[Brian Henderson]

Update it is a bad battery. I charged it for a full day, let it sit disconnected for a day and then tried and failed to start the car.This is the second battery I had fail on me in under 2 years from batteries plus bulbs. Even if they will replace or prorate this battery its a hassel, as they want to test the battery themselfs for 24 hrs and their 40 miles away. So what do I do jump my car drive to them and let them test the battery for 24hrs while I sit in the parking lot.LOL NOT!. Think I'm done with them and will go to Wally World get an everstart that has a free 3 year replacement and 2 more year prorated

Walmart will test the battery and it will take 20 minutes. We took them my daughter's battery, they said it would be done the next day, then they called me and told me it was bad and we were still in the store. It's not a deep charge test, but many batteries don't need that to tell they're bad.

[Bill Orbine]

Too bad about the new battery failing so soon on you. Just becareful running the car on a dead battery after a jumpstart. A depleted battery forces the alternator to run harder and hotter. It is common the for altenator to fail because of this problem. Just make sure your battery is charged as much as possible before running the car. I also suggest you get your charging system tested when you do get your battery replaced, JTBS.

[Brady Watson]

Too bad about the new battery failing so soon on you. Just becareful running the car on a dead battery after a jumpstart. A depleted battery forces the alternator to run harder and hotter. It is common the for altenator to fail because of this problem. Just make sure your battery is charged as much as possible before running the car. I also suggest you get your charging system tested when you do get your battery replaced, JTBS.

Good advice. Electronics really don't like brown outs...low voltage conditions cause things to draw more amps to get the same job done & that doesn't work out well for a lot of things.

Glad you found the issue ~ For sure get something near by with a warranty. I would take that 'old' battery to the store and leave it for testing the next time you are over that way. When they determine it's bad, get another one for only 1 year's cost & keep it as a spare on a trickle charger. You never know when you can use it for something else. It's always good to have a spare around for any number of things.

[Rich Tomassetti]

If when you get it started take it for a long drive, a good 45 minutes to give the battery a good charge.

[Bert Kemp]

Well last night my friend got home about 4:15pm I looked online to see the hours of the auto dept at Walmart which said 7am to 7pm so we jumped my car and off to Walmart I went, Dark pouring rain about 35degrees , I roll around back at 5:02 pull up to the garage door and shut car off(oops) as I get out to go in all the lights in the garage go out. I can't get out of my car very fast you know new knee and all but when I get to the door its locked and theres a piece of paper taped to the window says were closing at 5pm next couple of weeks I'm like ARE YOU KIDDING ME? I start pounding on the door to no avail.Well yep car won't start. So here I am sitting in the back lot . pitch black pouring rain. Noway can I walk all the way around the building to see if someone can get me a battery. Well I'm sitting there thinking of what to do a car pulls in and this women gets out and heads for the door, well I tell her she can't get in that way and I explain my situation to her and she looks and says you just had a knee replacement I says yea and she says your a Veteran ( I had a USMC Hat on ) I syas yes I am and she looks at me smiles and say I'M GONNA GO YOU YOU SOME HELP! I'm like oh awesome thanks a lot. So she takes off and I'm sitting there for like 20 mins and I'm thinking nobodys coming so I'm getting ready to call a tow truck for a jump so I can get home and suddenly the4 lights in the garage came on and a Walmart women comes out and say you need a battery, lets see what we can do.So I go in and she punch my car into the computer and of course the most expensive one they have to fit my car pops up, and I'm like I really don't want o spend that much on a battery I searched on line and it says this here battery will do. Then she says we can't put that one in your car because this it what the computer says your car takes and we can't be libel if something happens. I'm like ok what ever I can't be stuck here. Now she says I have to find someone to put it in as all the garage guys went home.I'm like I have no tools with me. She says hold on one of the guys working in the store tonight use to work in the garage I'll ask him if he will put it in for you. So he'sw say ok and start to do that job, Now she says how do you wnat to pay cash or credit I say I have a debit card, so off to the cash register to pay and she says I'm gonna let you have the battery for the price you wanted to pay for that cheaper battery for all your inconvenience I'm wow really your a sweetheart . So what started out as a terrible n ight turned out pretty good.:)

[Jim Koepke]

So what started out as a terrible n ight turned out pretty good.:)

Glad to hear it had a happy, if somewhat haggard, ending.

jtk

[Paul F Franklin]

Any day you get to interact with TWO caring and helpful people is a great day! Thanks for sharing the story and I hope the new battery solves your car problem.

[Bert Kemp]

Thanks I still need to get the alt checked just to make sure but my meter says its putting out.

[Jim Koepke]

Thanks I still need to get the alt checked just to make sure but my meter says its putting out.

If your meter is trust worthy it is likely okay.

Though having someone check your system may be a good idea.

There is more than one way a faulty alternator can cause the death of a battery.

jtk