ECE Plane Woes

[Rob Luter]

A few years ago I picked up an ECE smoother similar to the one depicted below. It was at a yard sale for cheap and I couldn't pass it up. Mine is an older version without the plastic part to secure the wedge. It's more "old school" construction. Recently I decided to tune it up and put it to work. I can't get this thing to function for the life of me. The iron is razor sharp, the sole is flat, the chipbreaker is adjusted properly and in full contact with the iron, but I can't seem to take a fine shaving. It's either nothing or a thick cut. I have observed that the mouth opening is huge on this plane, over 1/8". Would that make all the difference?

https://www.qy1.de/img/hobel-301023a.jpg

[ken hatch]

Rob,

I doubt it is the mouth opening, I have a ECE coffin smoother with a 10mm mouth opening, 5mm, almost a 1/4", from iron to front of mouth and it is a great smoother.

I suspect a bump in the sole.

ken

[chris carter]

I don’t think it’s the mouth opening either. Do you have other woodies? The reason I ask is that there is a learning curve to tapping an iron in a wooden plane. In the beginning I had a hard time trying to nail the exact cutting depth and it was always too little or way too much. It takes a little practice to learn how to finesse it a half a thousandth of an inch.

Also check the bed to make sure it’s flat. If it’s convex the iron would rock when it catches the wood which would yield a nothing or way too much cut. If a previous owner tried to widen the mouth and didn’t know which side to file, I could see that happening. And just generally check for anomalies with the bed, both sides of the iron, and the back of the wedge.

If it's none of the above, recheck the sole to make sure it's really flat.

[Warren Mickley]

You could have some problems related to sharpening: a convex bevel with the angle over 40 degrees at the edge would give problems of this sort. But I think like others that the iron just is not carefully positioned.

Any plane that is not used regularly will be more difficult to adjust at first. The iron needs a heavy hit to move and then overshoots. And it is sluggish when you try to retract it a tiny amount also. Make sure that you don't overdo the wedge when you tighten it up. A lot of back and forth will get the action working better and improve your skills as well.

[Jim Koepke]

Another thing that can cause this problem is a concave sole. The blade has to be extended further to start cutting. When it starts cutting, it causes the plane to be pulled into making a thicker shaving.

As Warren suggests it could also be your sharpening method. If you are using the Sellers convex bevel, try regrinding your blade for a flat or hollow grind bevel.

jtk

[Mike Holbrook]

I made a few wood planes a few years ago.

I found forming the wedge, that holds the blade in place, was very difficult to get exactly right. Much like the bottom of the plane, a wege has to fit precisely to hold the blade precisely. A wedge is often tapered at one end....wood can move and different environments are more or less moist.

[Rob Luter]

Thanks to all for the replies. The iron is sharpened with a concave bevel on my grinder, then honed to the final edge with honing guides and a series of abrasives. It's extremely sharp. I've had other woodies, and I'm able to do a passable job adjusting them with a tiny hammer. I'll recheck the sole and make sure it's dead flat. I flattened it when I got it, but that was years ago. That said, it hasn't been used at all. The quest continues.

[ken hatch]

Thanks to all for the replies. The iron is sharpened with a concave bevel on my grinder, then honed to the final edge with honing guides and a series of abrasives. It's extremely sharp. I've had other woodies, and I'm able to do a passable job adjusting them with a tiny hammer. I'll recheck the sole and make sure it's dead flat. I flattened it when I got it, but that was years ago. That said, it hasn't been used at all. The quest continues.

Rob,

I agree with the Chris about the bed. After insuring a flat sole check the bed to make sure the cutter doesn't rock. Woodies are pretty simple, most of their problems can be traced to fit of the wedge or a bump somewhere where there shouldn't be a bump.

ken

[Ben Bunting]

I mean no disrespect to your skills but is the blade bevel up or down?

[Rob Luter]

Bevel?



Seriously though, it's down with cap iron on top. No disrespect taken. Sometime you just gotta ask. :D

[Rob Luter]

Rob,

I agree with the Chris about the bed. After insuring a flat sole check the bed to make sure the cutter doesn't rock. Woodies are pretty simple, most of their problems can be traced to fit of the wedge or a bump somewhere where there shouldn't be a bump.

ken

I'll check the blade bed out again too. Everything seems pretty solid but the results I'm getting tell me all is not right.

[Warren Mickley]

I still think that the iron is just going too far when you tap it, that you are just not getting fine control by this method. It is difficult to get good control with a plane that has not been used regularly.

Try this. Put a sheet of white paper on the bench and sight along the sole of the plane so you can see the projection. You should have the nose of the plane toward you. Then you can see how much the iron jumps when you tap it. And with some planes there is more sensitivity in the retraction mode. Compare what you see with a plane that is adjusted with a screw and nut.

[ken hatch]

Rob,

Did you get it working?

ken

[Pete Taran]

While certainly not impossible to get to work, I'm reminded that Stanley set the world on fire with iron metallic bodied planes for a very good reason...

[Rob Luter]

Rob,

Did you get it working?

ken

I'll have a chance to look at it this weekend.

[Rob Luter]

While certainly not impossible to get to work, I'm reminded that Stanley set the world on fire with iron metallic bodied planes for a very good reason...

Yup. Metal planes are my "go to" tools, but I like a challenge. If I can't get it to work I'll convert it to a scrub plane.

[Ted Phillips]

It is possible that when you are tapping in the wedge that it is slightly warping the body of the plane. I've never had good luck with ECE planes and have sold the couple that I had years ago... Good luck!

[Rob Luter]

Update....

The sole looked pretty flat. I also need new glasses. My Starrett Straight Edge told a better story. I rubbed pencil lead all over my granite surface plate and rubbed the plane on that to establish witness marks. There were some pretty good hollow spots fore and aft of the mouth opening and elsewhere in the sole. I flattened the sole with progressively finer sheets of sandpaper starting at 80 grit and finishing at 220. It's dead flat now. The iron seemed to be bedded well, but I pulled it out and had a second look. All is well. The wedge was pretty tight though, probably too tight as it took several good whacks on the back of the plane to get it loose and out. I used greater care when I replaced it and the iron. Gentle taps with a tiny hammer snuck up on a fine cut and the plane is working well. It will never replace my LN smoothers, but it's functional.

All that said, I need to work on the iron a little more. While it's sharp as the devil, the grind doesn't have any camber and the edges are leaving marks in the surface. you can't see them as much as feel them. My LN #4 1/2 took them right out. We're supposed to have lousy weather this weekend so I should have some shop time available.

[ken hatch]

Update....

The sole looked pretty flat. I also need new glasses. My Starrett Straight Edge told a better story. I rubbed pencil lead all over my granite surface plate and rubbed the plane on that to establish witness marks. There were some pretty good hollow spots fore and aft of the mouth opening and elsewhere in the sole. I flattened the sole with progressively finer sheets of sandpaper starting at 80 grit and finishing at 220. It's dead flat now. The iron seemed to be bedded well, but I pulled it out and had a second look. All is well. The wedge was pretty tight though, probably too tight as it took several good whacks on the back of the plane to get it loose and out. I used greater care when I replaced it and the iron. Gentle taps with a tiny hammer snuck up on a fine cut and the plane is working well. It will never replace my LN smoothers, but it's functional.

All that said, I need to work on the iron a little more. While it's sharp as the devil, the grind doesn't have any camber and the edges are leaving marks in the surface. you can't see them as much as feel them. My LN #4 1/2 took them right out. We're supposed to have lousy weather this weekend so I should have some shop time available.

Rob,

Thanks for the update, kinda what I thought it would be although some of the others were almost as likely.

ken

[Stewie Simpson]

Rob; the following shows a french double iron smoothing plane that I fettled- in this morning.

regards Stewie;

Plane Bed; (note- the use of masking tape to allow the chalk to adhere to the back of the iron).
http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/fettling%20in%20a%20smoothing%20plane/DSC_0167_zpswcsten9x.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/fettling%20in%20a%20smoothing%20plane/DSC_0167_zpswcsten9x.jpg.html)

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/fettling%20in%20a%20smoothing%20plane/DSC_0166_zpsowhbsraw.jpg
(http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/fettling%20in%20a%20smoothing%20plane/DSC_0166_zpsowhbsraw.jpg.html)

Wedge to wedge Abutments; (note- the double iron needs to be installed prior to checking the fit of the wedge).
http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/fettling%20in%20a%20smoothing%20plane/DSC_0169_zpsmdtliccr.jpg

(http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/fettling%20in%20a%20smoothing%20plane/DSC_0169_zpsmdtliccr.jpg.html)
http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/fettling%20in%20a%20smoothing%20plane/DSC_0168_zpsvrfv9tp0.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/fettling%20in%20a%20smoothing%20plane/DSC_0168_zpsvrfv9tp0.jpg.html)

Flattening the Sole; (note- the double iron is set in tension prior to proceeding with flattening the sole).
http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/fettling%20in%20a%20smoothing%20plane/DSC_0171_zpst99ouhgx.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/fettling%20in%20a%20smoothing%20plane/DSC_0171_zpst99ouhgx.jpg.html)

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/fettling%20in%20a%20smoothing%20plane/DSC_0172_zpsc8m6nnkn.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/fettling%20in%20a%20smoothing%20plane/DSC_0172_zpsc8m6nnkn.jpg.html)

[Rob Luter]

Thanks for posting Stewie. Looks like we followed the same process.

I spent some more time on the iron yesterday and made some more improvements. I used a hard Arkansas stone to soften the corners with small radii and rehoned the iron to establish a very subtle camber. The quality of cut is good and it's not leaving the marks it was. It's still no match for my LN #4 1/2. Another week, another tweak. I'll get there eventually.

[Bob Glenn]

You can check that the iron is bedded correctly by using a magic marker and coloring the bevel side of the iron where it beds in the plane. Then carefully install the iron and lightly place the wedge in position and tap the iron so that it moves just a bit. Remove the iron and see if there is a blackened spot in the bed of the plane. That indicates a high spot. Carefully remove the high area making if flat with the rest of the bed. Repeat until you have a large area the is marked by the iron indicating the iron is now bedded securely. That should fix you problem if everything else is correct.