Leigh D4R Pro Practice Joints...

[Derek Arita]

I've been practicing with the D4R Pro. After some calls to Leigh, I was able to get some issues sorted out. With some replacement parts and knowing where and how to tweak things, I was able to get pretty good joints using both a Bosch 1618 and a Dewalt 618. The Bosch is great for its height adjustment mechanism and the Dewalt has a low center of gravity that makes it perfect for the jig.
Anyhow, I gotta thank Leigh for patently working with me through this. Take a look...by the way, no glue, but room for some...
https://beta-static.photobucket.com/images/h151/derekarita1/0/5214a7ee-a34b-4491-bf52-49b110bc762a-original.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds (https://beta.photobucket.com/u/derekarita1/p/5214a7ee-a34b-4491-bf52-49b110bc762a)

[Larry Frank]

Glad you figured it out. Good looking joints.

[Derek Arita]

Thanks. I only wish the Dewalt had a better, finer height adjustment like the Bosch does. That said, I figured out that if I undo the Dewalt's lever lock just half way, it holds things in place, then the adjustment wheel can be turned to change the height. That, together with a digital height gage works well enough.
Also, Leigh stressed to me the importance of using the same router, in the same orientation, for both tail and pin routing. They said, that gives the best setup for consistent, repeatable results.
From the start, I had a problem with a gap in part of the joint. We finally realized that the Scales were not sitting perfectly flush with the finger surfaces. That caused the router base to rise as it road up onto the Scales. Once the Scales were replaced and I learned to tweak them a bit during use, all fell into place and it works great and very repeatable.

[Charles Lent]

Having different routers to use with the D4R is a plus. I have two DW618B3 three base router kits and like using the D handle bases with my D4R, but I've had to put a piece of tape on the top of each router with a black marker shape of the bit that was in each of them so I don't use the wrong one DAMHIKT. Having two different routers should eliminate this problem. I have marker arrows on the top of the base of each router so I can keep them oriented the same way when using them with my Leigh jigs. The joints in your photos are about as good as you will get in pine. You should get less tear out in hard wood joints, as long as your bits are sharp. I love my D4R and FMT jigs.

Charley

[Tom M King]

I keep two dedicated 690's for it.

[Derek Arita]

I was thinking about using 2 dedicated routers as well, however after using just one, I do see their point. Don't shoot the messenger here, please. What Leigh said was, no router has the same runout and no matter how good the centering is done, practically speaking, no bit can be perfectly centered. As a result, no 2 routers can be set up to be centered exactly the same and have the same runout. The accuracy of the jig depends on a consistency of centering and runout, when routing pins and tails. Using one router means, it doesn't have to be centered perfectly, nor does it have to be runout free, as long as it is consistently oriented on the jig.
For me and I repeat, for me, using 2 routers on my old D4 never got me as clean a joint as using 1 router on the D4R Pro. The jig is pretty much the same jig, so I can only attribute my new joints to using 1 router. If you can get good joints using 2 routers, then that's a much more convenient set up that I wish worked for me. At best, I may keep the Dewalt for Half Blind and the Bosch for Through or get a second Dewalt for Through.

[Chris Hachet]

I keep two dedicated 690's for it.I use two dedicated 690's for dovetailing as well.

[Larry Frank]

I use two routers when making through dovetails and no problems.

[Derek Arita]

I'm just say'in...

[Charles Lent]

When using two routers, always keep one with the straight bit in it and one with the dovetail bit in it and then always face the same side of the router bases toward the dovetail jig (I drew a black marker arrow on the top of both of my router bases and always point the arrow toward the jig when cutting). If you do this it eliminates the router base variables from the joint itself. The only thing that you might notice is that the tail cut might be shifted left or right a little when matched up to the pin cut. The pin/dovetail pattern will match perfectly, but the ends of the pin board might be offset when matched up to the tail board. This offset will be the dimensional difference between the offset of the two router base offsets and it will be much less than 1/16". You will not see it in the joint itself. It's so small that I don't even try to get the router bases perfectly centered anymore. It disappears in the final sanding and fitting.

Charley

[Dan Hahr]

My problems with gaps and ill fitting joints went away entirely with the purchase of two Jasper router base plates. I bought one with the centering bit and one without. I tightened the bushings as tight as possible and then lined up each with the centering bit. It would be insane to try and do a bunch of drawers with one router, changing bits every time you wanted to test fit a joint. Go with two routers and don't worry about their advice to use one router. The errors in setting it up perfectly each time will counter the benefits.

Dan

[Warren Lake]

2 routers,

the jig itself is not perfect and think I found two things that werent warm and fuzzy maybe three.

[Jim Becker]

Although I don't use my Leigh jig often, my DW618 gets the nod for the low center of gravity thing for sure. Great little router. I'm also anal about using a centering cone to be absolutely sure that the cutter is concentric with the base. Those are very nice joints in the photos!

[Derek Arita]

Although I don't use my Leigh jig often, my DW618 gets the nod for the low center of gravity thing for sure. Great little router. I'm also anal about using a centering cone to be absolutely sure that the cutter is concentric with the base. Those are very nice joints in the photos!
Thanks Jim! Appreciate that. Took me a while to find the fault in my jig, but once I did, the jig is working great. Didn't mean for this to become a "1 router or 2" thread but, oh well. Just wanted to give the heads up to those who were having the same issues as I was.
When I bought the 618, I thought it came with a centering jig, but it didn't, so I guess I have to get one. Thanks again.

[ChrisA Edwards]

I bought one of these jigs, about 3 years ago, when I started to do some woodworking. Watched lots of videos to justify the expense and was real excited when I go it.

But I couldn't get good results, consistently, so it went up on a high shelf and has sat there ever since.

So this thread has been very helpful, even though it might cost me the purchase of another router.....but one can never have too many tools and Christmas isn't too far away...:)

[Derek Arita]

I bought one of these jigs, about 3 years ago, when I started to do some woodworking. Watched lots of videos to justify the expense and was real excited when I go it.

But I couldn't get good results, consistently, so it went up on a high shelf and has sat there ever since.

So this thread has been very helpful, even though it might cost me the purchase of another router.....but one can never have too many tools and Christmas isn't too far away...:)
Chris, I think it may be easier to get the jig squared away by starting with half blind dovetails. The half blind dovetails are done with one router and one bit. That way, you have only one router and the jig to trouble shoot. Also, Leigh support was very helpful. They really do want to solve your issues and get you and jig working. Send them pics of your joints and they can trouble shoot from there. Matt and Barry were a huge help. Just be sure that your stock is totally flat and square.

[Jim Becker]

Didn't mean for this to become a "1 router or 2" thread but,

In an ideal world we'd have two "identical" routers with each having the alternative cutter locked in after test cuts so all the production work would be "spot on". But most of us don't live in that ideal world. LOL

[Derek Arita]

As an update, there were so many that swore by using 2 routers for Through Dovetails, I decided to do further testing. I bought another Dewalt 618, centered the guides and used a fixed template guide in one and the adjustable guide in the other, set to 10, as the manual states.
I was able to get a good fitting joint with that setup, however the registered edges of the boards were not at all flush. After some head-scratching, I decided to try using the adjustments on the guide. Moving in quarter turn increments, I was able to get to .003" off of flush sides, with nice fitting joints.
Not quite sure if it's an acceptable number, but at least I know that the option is there if the project is not a crucial one. That said, when you think about it, all the Tails are cut at the same time, then the bit would be changed to do the Pins. You're going to have to mount the straight bit in the router at some point anyways, unless you leave the bits in the routers all the time. For a non production guy like me, mounting the straight bit one time is not a very big deal, so I'll likely use one router most of the time, just to get the optimal fit. But like I said, the option is there for me.

[Kim Gibbens]

I don't see any pictures.

[Derek Arita]

Kim, sorry. I tried to use Photobucket, but it's not coming up. Here's a pic using "insert image"...if it's big enough, you can see the flushness or lack of, on the top of the joint.
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[Jim Becker]

Derek, you can't use Photobucket to link to images anymore unless you pay them $400 for the privilege.

[Derek Arita]

Jim, that sucks! I've been using all this time. In fact, I posted pics with this thread. Can I post pics that will actually show in the thread, rather than having to click on it or just show a thumbnail?

[Jim Becker]

The recommended method for posting images to SMC is to upload them here to display. I do that "in-line" using the "Insert Image" button, selecting "choose file" and then clicking on "upload". While that does place a thumbnail (for efficiency), one can click on that thumbnail to get the larger image and cycle through multiples if there are more than one in a post. The limit is 8 per post and you can have as many posts in a thread as you want.

Photobucket's policy change a quite some time ago literally decimated a large percentage of image content in online forums, especially those that unlike SMC, don't prefer or even allow uploading to the forums' servers. Supposedly, they recently relaxed things for images that already existed, but any new images for linking require the expensive $400 subscription.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread about making dovetails... :)

[Derek Arita]

Jim, sorry...just one more pic question...can you see the pic I posted? I don't even see a thumbnail. I just see "TD2pdf". Why is that?

[Jim Becker]

No, it's not visible. And if it's a PDF...it's not going to be visible since that's a document format, not an image format.

[Derek Arita]

Second try at posting this pic...

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