Sliding T.S.

[David Less]

I've been contimplating selling my PM 66 for a higher end Euro Slider. My biggest complaint on a new slider is that most do not allow a datto blade set up. Why are the European's so dead set against this on a T.S.? I figgure for the amount of money I will have to spend on one, I would really like this feature. I've used my router and my T.S. for dattos and like the T.S. better. Should I waite untill the Europeans start to put this feature on sliders going to America?

David

[John Renzetti]

Hi David, You can get full Dado capacity on a number of the sliding table saws coming into the USA. I have it on my Felder. Pretty sure you can get it with MM, Laguna TSS, Altendorf, Casolin, Hammer.
take care,
John

[Paul B. Cresti]

David,
Why even bother with a time consuming dado head anyway? It not only takes some time to set but then ties up you saw. Make a router table extension on the outfeed side of the slider and you now have the benefit of the router for dados and other cuts/joints while using the slider for the accuracy and safety. This also allows you to continue to use your saw. It is kind of like a saw/shaper but it does not tie up your free standing shaper. Check out my past post with picture to get an idea of what I am talking about. Let me know if you have any questions or any input on sliders, I can help you choose one ;)

[Frank Pellow]

David,
Why even bother with a time consuming dado head anyway? It not onle takes some time to set but then ties up you saw. Make a router table extension on the outfeed side of the slider and you now have the benfit of the router for dados and other cuts/joints while using the slider for the accuracy and safety. This also allows you to continue to use your saw. It is kid like a saw/shaper but it does not tie up you shaper. Check out my past post with picture to get an idea of what I am talking about. Let me know if you have any questions or any input on sliders, I can help you choose one ;)
Paul, which of your many past posts? Please insert a link the the thread.

[Mark Singer]

yeah Paul ......382 what are we supposed to look at each and evey one:confused: Huh?

[Paul B. Cresti]

Geez guys tough crowd! I am glad I decided to take a break and saw this post otherwise I would have been black listed ! :) ;)
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=26285

[Mark Singer]

Geez guys tough crowd! I am glad I decided to take a break and saw this post otherwise I would have been black listed ! :) ;)
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=26285

There you go one of the many helpful Cresti posts on using a MM saw for the non slider types;)

[Jim Becker]

David, the prohibition on dado blades in Europe is a safety thing. Their equivalent of OSHA made that decision and there are a variety of ways to do the same thing. That said, I personally prefer a dado set for certain kinds of cuts and when I move to a slider someday, it will be one that accomodates it. The one downside, however, is that it may add space between the slider and the normal cutting blade, rather than having the edge of the slider dead on the cut line.

[Paul Canaris]

David, the Knapp Profi series takes any after market dado; that is with a 30 mm bore.
Also, with the high speed rotuer attachement (22,000 rpm) I can use a spiral cutter with the saw fence as a guide and create a dado that way on the face of any size panel.

[John Renzetti]

I totally disagree that setting up a good dado head on a slider or cabinet saw for that matter is any more time consuming than doing it with a router setup. I had a saw shaper combo and used to cut dados with the high speed router spindle. The setup time is about the same. What I found with the router cutting was that different types of cutters produce different result depending on the style of cutter and the material. Whereas when I used the Forrest Dado King on my old unisaw and now a different shaper cutter style dado on my slider I find the results are excellent no matter what the material. Also with the variations that are found in the thicknesses of sheetgoods. A good dado cutter can be fine tuned for an exact fit.

As Jim mentioned there is a possibility that the slider will be offset to accommodate the dado cutter. I know on my saw and I think Paul Canaris' Knapp plus some others the cutter remains next to the slider.
take care,
John

[Paul B. Cresti]

David, the prohibition on dado blades in Europe is a safety thing. Their equivalent of OSHA made that decision and there are a variety of ways to do the same thing. That said, I personally prefer a dado set for certain kinds of cuts and when I move to a slider someday, it will be one that accomodates it. The one downside, however, is that it may add space between the slider and the normal cutting blade, rather than having the edge of the slider dead on the cut line.
Jim,
I can only speak to the saws I know about but the slider IS NOT on the exact cut line of the blade. There is a small gap on mine maybe a 1/8" or so.

IMHO a dado head on a slider is useless. It just wastes the slider use. When I had my Unisaw I hated the ritual of setting my stacked dado head (Jesada). While it performed quite good a router bit was just plain cleaner period. Now that I set up my S35 with the dedicated router table I gain the large crosscut fence capabilities with the flipstops. I do use the plywood bits for the router but they never match the sheetgoods perfectly. Until someone offers a adjustable router bit I have come up with a solution. I will make one full pass and then one more quick one with a "shim" in the stop on the crosscut fence that will add the extra width should I need it. This way I will not need to change the location of stop on the crosscut fence at all. Besides router bits are cheap and a stacked dado or one of those "special" dado heads cost a small fortune. I have already spent enough on shaper tooling!

[Travis Porter]

I am somewhat new here, but I still can't get over your updated picture....

[Jim Becker]

I can only speak to the saws I know about but the slider IS NOT on the exact cut line of the blade. There is a small gap on mine maybe a 1/8" or so.

Very true, Paul. My statement was too general as the blade couldn't be tight to the slider for obvious reasons, including variations in kerf width from blade to blade. I was just pointing out that some dado implementations increase that 1/8" to about 3/4" to 1", depending on how it's implemented. It's not a big concern, but one should know about it!

[Paul B. Cresti]

Very true, Paul. My statement was too general as the blade couldn't be tight to the slider for obvious reasons, including variations in kerf width from blade to blade. I was just pointing out that some dado implementations increase that 1/8" to about 3/4" to 1", depending on how it's implemented. It's not a big concern, but one should know about it!

Hey I gotcha! :p :) ;) In all honesty I still do not understand people's want/need to use a dado head on a slider. If you have a CS that is dedicated to dados only, ok then I can see that as a time saver but going and changing out you blade everytime you want to do a dado/rabet is beyond me.I say use the slider what it was designed for: a ripping/crosscutting machine for both solid stock & sheetgoods. Add a router table for dados only and keep your saw free. If you have a saw/shaper assembly then use the shaper portion for your dados. Why move up to a more advanced/safer/more accurate tecknology to only go back to previous way of doing work? IMHO

[Chris Rosenberger]

Paul how much floor space does your saw take up, including when cutting sheet goods?

[Paul B. Cresti]

Paul how much floor space does your saw take up, including when cutting sheet goods?

Chris,
That is a tough question to answer as there are many variables. What length slider, how much rip capacity do you have (with the rip fence) and what size sheet goods are you working with. Some other things to think of is do you want/require space all around the saw in order to walk around it when in "full use".

I have the MM S35 it is a 10.5ft stroke slider with 50" rip capacity (with rip fence) and the crosscut fence on the outrigger table can extend up to something like 10ft. I have the S35 in one half of my 25x25 shop. I can handle slightly over 8'-0" rips and 4x8 sheetgoods without opening the OH doors and can do up to roughly 8'-0" crosscuts with the crosscut fence. So when in full use for sheetgoods everything to the left of my blade is occupied along with the table board side (rip fence side). Assuming using a 4x8 sheet, then picture a full sheet sliding back and forth clearing the blade. My shop is tight I do not get to walk around the saw when in use but the abilities I have to cut anything quickly, accurately and safely outweigh that.

If you remove the outrigger table (which I do on a regular basis) I have all that space to the left of the blade. The funny thing is yes this sw is massive, the table surface is huge but when I remove the outrigger table I actuallt have more space than when I had my Unisaw with its 52" rip capacity. I was at one point ready to get a Exaktor or Excaliber sliding table for it. That would have all of availible space left, have had less capacity than I do now, been less accurate, no solid stock ripping/edging capabilities and would not have been a real removable system like I have now!

Take a look at these past posts of mine to get a better idea of what I am talking about:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=24502

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=23774

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=23389

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=26285

[Chris Rosenberger]

Paul,
Thanks for the reply. I have always liked the sliding tablesaws because of the sliding tables. The drawbacks were using a dado blade, the amount of floor space it took up & it is a different type saw than a Unisaw. The only ones I had seen were in stores or at shows.
I like how you have placed the router for dados. I now have a Unisaw setup just for dados. It backed up to my main Unisaw as part of the outfeed table. I have an Excaliber 60" sliding table on this saw. This setup is about 105" square. Is your setup smaller than this?
On the right side of the blade I have 60". My mortiser sets on the right end of the saw. I have over 8' to the left of blade & over 12' to the front & back. I will have to take a closer look at these next year.

[tod evans]

chris, i took a different approach to dados than paul, i built a homemade panel router. i think you`ll be much happier with either set-up than using a conventional saw and a stacked dado. if you do opt for a router check out a company called her-safe for insert bits, they`ll save you lots of time. .02 tod

[Chris Rosenberger]

Thanks Tod.

[Charlie Plesums]

I think all the technical points have been made, but let me summarize my experience...

My 8 1/2 foot slider does support a dado blade. I have used it once, to see how it worked. The edge of the slider is about an inch away from the arbor (the far side of the blade), which does not present a problem.

I rarely get a perfect sheet of plywood, the primary material in which I cut dados. If it bows up, my RAS cuts too deep, and my table saw cut too shallow. My slider is a little better because I can lean on the sheet on the slider, but a bowed sheet still isn't 100% flat. I have cut dados on my shaper (using the slider) with a router bit, but have the same issues. I have gone back to cutting my dados with a hand router, because the router follows the curvature of the sheet goods better, and with an even dado, I can normally flatten the panel during glue-up.

As noted, many of the European machines coming to the American market do support dado blades, but the high end MiniMax machines do not. When I got my MiniMax, that seemed to be an important point. If I ever move up (like Paul), I won't worry about dado capability.

[tod evans]

your welcome chris. charlie, the way i deal with cupped plywood is i have a vacuum clamp set-up on the panel router, it just sucks it flat. .02 tod

[Paul B. Cresti]

Chris,
One more thought with a EFSTS is you could even place your dedicated Unisaw w/stacked dado head in the exact location I have my new router dado table. You still get the use of your dado head but add the incredible benefit of the slider and croscutt fence. In this case I would opt for a definate 10 ft stroke slider to maximize the full benefit of sliding past the dado cutter. By the way, I think I have roughly the same space you do for your Unisaw + Excaliber.

Charlie,
I definately agree with your insight on the bowing of sheetgoods and the affects it has on cutting dados. I have found that cutting the sheets down to the final size helps to eliminate this mostly but you have to make sure your dado cutting ability is exact and repeatable since you are now making mutliple cuts over many pieces thus my research in using the benefits of my S35....

[Paul B. Cresti]

your welcome chris. charlie, the way i deal with cupped plywood is i have a vacuum clamp set-up on the panel router, it just sucks it flat. .02 tod

Tod,
That is a great idea!.....hmmmm.... I wonder if....... I have delt with the cupped boards on the slider via using a eccentric clamp on both ends of the sheet. This also seems to really press down the stock.

[tod evans]

paul, instead of vacuum on the slider how about using the concept of commercial panel clamps and going with positive preasure in a diaphram in order to press the wood flat? might be something to think about?? tod

[Paul B. Cresti]

paul, instead of vacuum on the slider how about using the concept of commercial panel clamps and going with positive preasure in a diaphram in order to press the wood flat? might be something to think about?? tod

Tod,
Are you talking about one of those long bar clamps thingys? I think some have air powered clamping capabilties. Something to think about but ...... I need to make some more money first :)

[Chris Rosenberger]

Tod,
Could you post a picture of your clamp?

[tod evans]

chris, sorry for the delay, had clients stop and had to reinstall vacuum tape on the panel router (most of the time i don`t use vac.) tod 26762

[Chris Rosenberger]

Thanks Paul & Tod.

[John Renzetti]

[QUOTE=Paul B. Cresti]Jim,
IMHO a dado head on a slider is useless. It just wastes the slider use. When I had my Unisaw

I disagree with that. I believe that a dado enhances the versatility of a slider. And the slider can range from an expensive European one, to the Laguna TSS which is an intersting hybrid, to a Unisaw with an Excalibur attachment. It's a given that a tuned crosscut fence on a sliding table and outrigger gives an exceptionally accurate cut. Take an example of a long panel say 84" long, but only 18" wide. With the workpiece on the outrigger you can cut rebates (rabbits) on both ends plus by using the rip fence as a stop, cut a clean dados in between for maybe use as a shelf supports. This can be done quickly and accurately.
If your particular saw doesn't have dado capability then you have to do something else to accomplish the particular task, and in this case it is setting up a router table. There are many ways of doing a particular procedure, none of which are wrong as long as they are safe.
The original question asked if dado was available on sliders. It is on some saws, but not all. Because it is not available on certain saws does not make dado capability useless.
Take care,
John

[Paul B. Cresti]

Because it is not available on certain saws does not make dado capability useless.
Take care,
John

Once again you have your opinion and I have mine. Mine is: a dado head is a waste of time and money. If you want to devote it to one machine and that is its sole purpose than it may have some value. All I know is I am glad I never have to fool with a dado head again. Obviously the Europeans feel the same way and I sure do not think their work suffers for not having them

[Paul B. Cresti]

Paul,
I like how you have placed the router for dados. I now have a Unisaw setup just for dados. It backed up to my main Unisaw as part of the outfeed table. I have an Excaliber 60" sliding table on this saw. This setup is about 105" square. Is your setup smaller than this?
On the right side of the blade I have 60". My mortiser sets on the right end of the saw. I have over 8' to the left of blade & over 12' to the front & back. I will have to take a closer look at these next year.

Chris,
That is a really neat setup you have there. Did I see a General mortiser in the background???:) You seem to have sheetgoods pretty well covered in your setup. Obviously I feel a nice 10ft EFSTS will give you better results but I am sure that by now you have your system pretty well nailed down and accurate. There are some additional benefits you would gain with a slider like, scoring, straight line ripping of solid stock better cross cutting ability but of course it would have to fit into your economics first.

[Jim Becker]

Once again you have your opinion and I have mine. Mine is: a dado head is a waste of time and money. If you want to devote it to one machine and that is its sole purpose than it may have some value. All I know is I am glad I never have to fool with a dado head again. Obviously the Europeans feel the same way and I sure do not think their work suffers for not having them

Paul, I have to agree with John on this. We all work differently. The best way to make things work more universally is, "...a dado head is a waste of time and money for me." That sounds like a true statement since it's more specific. The original isn't.

[Paul B. Cresti]

Jim,
I am not arguing with you I simply always state my opinion with nothing hidden behind it. It is must easier to type and state the opinion right away instead of going into some long discourse. If we all added IMHO in every post we would never finish posting!:) ;) I always assume every post from anyone is an opinion, as I am sure no one wants to be held accountable for some post they have made. Some people's opinions I tend to agree more with others I do not......just remember what geographic location I come from .... I am a very opinionated guy :) :D :p

[Mark Singer]

Paul,
Is that yoour opinion:confused:

[Paul B. Cresti]

Paul,
Is that yoour opinion:confused:

OOPS forgot.... OK here it is,

"In my honest opinion all of my posts both past, present and future both here and any other website are my opinions and that is my opinion that, that is my opinion and add that I can not be held accountable in acourt of law that my opinions of my opinions are not fact just simply my opinions of my opinions thus hither too they mean next to nothing since they are my opinions.... and that is my opinion of my opinions" :confused:

You think you are confused I have no idea what I just said!

[Chris Rosenberger]

Chris,
That is a really neat setup you have there. Did I see a General mortiser in the background???:) You seem to have sheetgoods pretty well covered in your setup. Obviously I feel a nice 10ft EFSTS will give you better results but I am sure that by now you have your system pretty well nailed down and accurate. There are some additional benefits you would gain with a slider like, scoring, straight line ripping of solid stock better cross cutting ability but of course it would have to fit into your economics first.

Paul,

Yes that is a General 220 mortiser. I have had it about 12 years. It does a great job. This brought up an issue I had not considered when I was thinking of your setup. That is that I cut all my tenons with the dado blade. But as you stated in an earlier post, I could still use the dado saw as I am now. I also thought that it might be possible to have both the router table & dado saw. I could build a narrow table for the router between the slider & dado saw. I will just need to see one of these saws in person, taking into account these new ideas.

I had thought about being able to straight line rip with the slider. That would be great.

Chris

[tod evans]

chris, i don`t know if you have considered that the design of a slider with built in "t" track makes it really easy to mount any number of jigs directly to the slider? a simple 90deg jig will give a smooth tennon shoulder, if you build the jig where it will pivot angled tennons are a breeze, if you build one that will pivot and tilt.........get the picture? .02 tod

[Chris Rosenberger]

Tod, I understand what you are saying. The process I use to cut tenons now is a one step process except for the haunch on the top & bottom rails. I have one of the newer tenon jigs. I have used it for angled tenons.
I just do not like the multi step process. That is why I have a dedicated dado saw.
Chris

[tod evans]

chris, i understand about cutting in a single pass, in my shop i am restricted by height so i use the shaper for my tennoning work. i just hoped to bring to light another use for sliding tables:) tod

[Chris Giles]

Paul,

My SCM Slider has a very large T-slot in the sliding table as most sliders do, and I wonder if we put on our Rube Goldberg hats (the ones with the tin foil and satellite leads on top), if we couldn't just find a way to rig up a series of small vacuum pod-type hold down cups arranged along the length of the table within this T-slot as a major breakthrough in sliding table holddown technology. I don't care much for the overhead type available now, as they are expensive, obtrusive and heavy. What do you think? Any vacuum hold down experts out there care to chime in on this?

[tod evans]

chris, that`s a great idea, given the design of the extrusion(hollow) it would seem as though installing off the shelf pods would be a simple matter of sealing the ends of the extrusion,providing a tap to affix the vacuum and then drilling for the pods??? the only drawback i could see is weakening the extrusion by drilling it? i`ll give this some thought as you allready have. wonder what scmi has to say? have you asked? tod

[Chris Rosenberger]

chris, i understand about cutting in a single pass, in my shop i am restricted by height so i use the shaper for my tennoning work. i just hoped to bring to light another use for sliding tables:) tod

Tod, I understand what you were saying. I just thought I would describe my process.
Also, I cut the tenons with the workpiece laying flat on the table. The only time I cut a tenon with the workpiece standing on end is when cutting bevel tenons.

Chris

[Paul B. Cresti]

Paul,

My SCM Slider has a very large T-slot in the sliding table as most sliders do, and I wonder if we put on our Rube Goldberg hats (the ones with the tin foil and satellite leads on top), if we couldn't just find a way to rig up a series of small vacuum pod-type hold down cups arranged along the length of the table within this T-slot as a major breakthrough in sliding table holddown technology. I don't care much for the overhead type available now, as they are expensive, obtrusive and heavy. What do you think? Any vacuum hold down experts out there care to chime in on this?

Hmm...... funny you should say that because someone on the MMOG posted some pics a while ago in installing a vacuum system on his rip fence. He like you said had holes drilled in the fence. This allowed him to rip very very thin pieces.. kind of the same idea ..... and if you can reverse the suction to blowing maybe you could use the slider as an air hockey table for down times ;)

[tod evans]

paul, i think chris may be on to something here. if the slider itself was plumbed for vacuum the need for eccentric clamps when working sheetgoods could be eliminated.......flip a switch and the board is sucked tight to the slider not the rip fence or miter fence. the holding power of a vacuum is phenomenal. i think if this can be affordibly incorperated it would be a real time saver with the added benifit of increased accuracy. get those italian brain cells on the same page and chip in here, air hockey is out:) tod

[Paul B. Cresti]

paul, i think chris may be on to something here. if the slider itself was plumbed for vacuum the need for eccentric clamps when working sheetgoods could be eliminated.......flip a switch and the board is sucked tight to the slider not the rip fence or miter fence. the holding power of a vacuum is phenomenal. i think if this can be affordibly incorperated it would be a real time saver with the added benifit of increased accuracy. get those italian brain cells on the same page and chip in here, air hockey is out:) tod

I should have known you would have slapped me ;) :) I think the key thing would be to devise some type of system that would compartmentalize the suction. Is that what Chris ment by pods? or was that just a way to insert suction modules?

I would guess from the manufacturer the best scenario would be to "section" the slider internally so one could turn on and off areas as needed. From a retrofit aspect if one was to find a way to seal both ends of the extrusion how will the scution be affected if you hav numerous holes along the entire length of the slider but only use a section of it at a time?

I suppose one other idea might be to run a tube with some type of "modules" through the t-slot area where its tops surface would be flush with the top side of the slider. I think this would allow the min amount of retrofit.

Thoughts ?? ideas???

[tod evans]

the whole concept involving the "pod" is akin to the cnc tables, the pod remains sealed untill something is placed on it once an object is placed on the pod it allows the vacuum to flow into that orifice. so concievably the length of the slider could be one large vacuum clamp with the ability to hold a smooth surfaced workpiece anywhere along its length. i just got done cutting 12 sheets of 1/4 oak into bite sized pieces and the ability to suck-em-tite would have been handy. if i have time i`m going to play with a double sided vacuum clamp on the slider, it won`t be as good as pods but will let me get the feel.....i`ll want to talk with the mother company before i go drilling holes in my slider anyway for all i know a vacuum may distort the extrusion?? to learn more on the "pod" concept search out vacuum milling machine chucks. later, tod

[Chris Giles]

Guys,

This idea, clearly, could be incorporated into the design of future sliding tables. And I think it should be. The question remains of what to do with the sliders we already have? A retrofit assembly fitting within the T-slot seems to be the way to make this happen. The concept of pods that I mentioned before was indeed developed for CNC hold-down technology, and which Tod described correctly. The suction pod remains closed until something presses down on the top of it, then it is engaged. We used to tinker with these hold-down issues long ago to make our CNC's more efficient as far as the multiple spoil boards required to fabricate different parts. The vacuum pod concept grew out of this dilemna.

What I do not know is whether the small area available in the existing T-slot is large enough to house these vacuum pods, or would we have to use a built up thickness of perhaps a 1/2" or so, to accomodate the necessary surface area to effectively hold down the sheet stock. This would of course require surfacing the entire top and slider(probably with UHMW), hence losing a corresponding amount of depth capacity. An equitable trade, in my opinion. What do you guys think?

[tod evans]

chris, i have a piece of mdf set up to use as a double sided vacuum clamp that would work as you suggest but the loss of height is my main concern. what did you think of the idea of incorporating tha ball valves into our existing extrusions? i think the aluminum is thick enough that they could be set flush with the surface and a standard vacuum collar could be snapped in or out as needed? i did some research for a few min. earlier and found this site http://www.anver.com/index.html and another http://www.m-powertools.com/products/vacuum/ball-valves.htm i think this may be doable for small dollars? tod

[Paul B. Cresti]

I am not too familiar with the systems you guys are talking about but Tod's link gave me a glimpse of how those "sealed' valve thingys work.

I would agree the best retrofit would be to use the t slot. I just reread your previous post and saw that was your intention. I would suppose if you could place these ball valve things in some type of alum tube and then slide the whole assembly into the t slot and secure it, it might work. The couple of problems I see is since the valves are in a linear format and maybe not be able to be spaced very tightly you might be limited to only larger pieces of stock. I think this would rule out using any solid wood with this method only the larger sheetgoods would work. But do you think it could create enough suction since the points would only be on one line not dispersed over the entire sheet?

After looking at the extrusion of my S35 I noticed that about 4-6" of the slider closest to the blade is solid aluminum. The portion that is "hollow" is furthest from the blade. So the idea of using the whole extrusion may not be the best because a good portion of the slider is not hollow and i would think the area closest to the blade would be the most critical. This could easily be overcome in the manuf process by making the entire slider beefier still so that it is all a "box". I also was thinking about your sheet idea over the whole slider. I thought that maybe "lowering" the whole slider via it leveling bolts might work it limiting the amout of cutting height you would lose. I then remebered that on the S315 like Tod has (and I had) this might be possible but on my current S35 there is no height adjustment as it is all set at the factory and the table is set via conical idex pins and bolts to the frame. I was quite impressed how easy it was to set a 10.5 ft slider down and not require and adjustment at all as it was all done at the factory. So long story short I would lose height, Tod may not. Chris I would guess since you have a SCM yours would be the same as mine.

How about something in the t slot and something in the outrigger table also ? this might give enough surface area

[Jack Easton]

I was curious so I looked my extrusion over on my old MM slider and I think you could achieve vacuum very easily. If you take the end cap off it is one large chamber under the slider. Seal it drill a hole, put your fitting in and connect a vac. line. Small holes along the length of the slider and viola! Dust would need to be taken care of, a filter on the end of the fitting inside, maybe. Crude, but could work. Not sure I would do it or want it. I just make boxes, but if some tinkerer has the time and desire, I don't think it would be that hard. Don't mean to be part of the hi-jack, but I could care less if dado were available on my slider. I keep my router table set most of the time for just this task, mainly for grooving my sides to accept a 1/4" back, and if I do use dado in a project, it is almost always a stopped dado, and no way to safely do that with a stack.