Another coffee table

[Derek Cohen]

My nephew is getting married in February, and I offered to make a piece of furniture as a gift. The offer was open-ended, and the couple decided they wanted a coffee table. Their taste runs to mid century Danish, and so I sent them a bunch of example from the Internet to get the ball rolling. They fell in love with the following design, and want it in a medium dark wood (it is going to be solid wood, so possibly Jarrah) ...


https://i.postimg.cc/6p7gvkCz/Davids-table1.jpg


My question is how would you build the table ends ...


https://i.postimg.cc/m2pKhL1t/Davids-table2.jpg


Here is similar end ...


https://i.postimg.cc/pdWcPyP9/Davids-table4.jpg


I would like to make the end pieces wider so that they can create a breadboard join at each side.


Your thoughts?


Regards from Perth


Derek

[Derek Cohen]

My nephew is getting married in February, and I offered to make a piece of furniture as a gift. The offer was open-ended, and the couple decided they wanted a coffee table. Their taste runs to mid century Danish, and so I sent them a bunch of example from the Internet to get the ball rolling. They fell in love with the following design, and want it in a medium dark wood (it is going to be solid wood, so possibly Jarrah) ...


https://i.postimg.cc/6p7gvkCz/Davids-table1.jpg


My question is how would you build the table ends ...


https://i.postimg.cc/m2pKhL1t/Davids-table2.jpg


Here is similar end ...


https://i.postimg.cc/pdWcPyP9/Davids-table4.jpg


I would like to make the end pieces wider so that they can create a breadboard join at each side.


Your thoughts?


Regards from Perth


Derek

[glenn bradley]

My first reaction is to use hidden splines.

396024
Depending on the stock's scale, a tight row of Dominoes would also work but, could be more fussy.

396023

[William Fretwell]

I’ve seen joints just like that from the 1920’s that had failed, they used dowels into a solid corner piece. They had lasted a very long time so I’m not saying it was a bad idea!
The inside curve is the hardest part, running it slightly angled over a table saw will achieve that followed by sanding.
A crazy person would steam bend strips and laminate them.

Now we have buiscuits and dominos. Buiscuits give the greatest registration area, the new dowel!

If you use buiscuits glued both sides in the middle and glued one side near the edges you have your breadboard!

[brian zawatsky]

If I were making it, I'd saw thin veneers for the ends, make a form to clamp them into, and glue them up to end up with solid U-shaped sections for each end. Then you could glue & spline solid wood strips on the edges to hide the veneer slices.
I agree with your breadboard end assessment to allow movement across the width of the case, especially since it will be solid wood.
Please post some pics when you decide how you'll build it!

[brian zawatsky]

A crazy person would steam bend strips and laminate them.


I was typing while you posted, and had a good chuckle when I saw this. I don't have a steam bending setup, but I did suggest laminating strips. This confirms my wife's diagnosis I suppose...

[Phil Mueller]

To get parallel inside and outside curves and using solid wood, the only option I can see is to breadboard/M&T/spline in a larger block of wood. Use a bowl/tray router bit for the inside curve and hand plane/half round router bit for the outside.

If looking for continuous grain, I suppose you could make the whole thing out of thick timber with mitered corners, rout the inside and outside curves and then plane the thickness down to match the radius thickness. ?????

Looks like a fun challenge. Please let us follow along.

[William Fretwell]

I too was laughing!

[Brian Holcombe]

I think that table should be made with veneer over substrate, making it in solid wood leaves four corners either proud off or shy of the table edges.

[Mike King]

Here's an option that does not have the inside curve.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BpfgiZWgEZI/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

Mike

[Mike King]

I think you'd be better off with L tenons rather than either biscuits or dominos if you are mitering the corners.

Mike

[Derek Cohen]

I am not planning on mitering the corners. There are a couple of ways to create rounded corners without a mitre.

Looking at the photo, although not particularly clear, it looks like a plywood construction, and that the corners were created by steam bending over a form. Obviously, I am not planning to do that. Also, I do not plan to laminate a curve as this will not match solid pieces elsewhere.

One way is to use a solid corner and shape the inside and outside into a curve. Care needs to be taken with the grain direction. Something like this ...

https://i.postimg.cc/fTBQm4k0/Davids-table5.jpg

Other ideas? Hopefully better than mine :)

Regards from Perth

Derek

[glenn bradley]

I think you'd be better off with L tenons rather than either biscuits or dominos if you are mitering the corners.

Mike

I don't see how L tenons could be used in that construct. Am I missing something? Oh, wait. I guess if a seam on the rounded face was OK you could do that but, the scale would be challenging.

[William Fretwell]

Sounds like a shaped solid corner and spline mitre middle glued and floating ends with retaining dowels is coming up. The retaining dowels can have a groove in the spline and be installed from underneath so they are never visible.

As an aside, I am rather jealous of the exotic woods you get down under! In Canada we pay dearly for such splendor.
Cherry and walnut are our jewels in the crown and we pay for those too!

[Jamie Buxton]

If the top and sides are made from veneer, the machining of the corner piece needs to be very precise; you can't just sand out any inaccuracy. If, as you say, you make the top and sides with solid lumber, you have more wiggle room with the corner piece. You can make the outside radius with a roundover bit in a router, but you're limited to 1 1/2" radius. Or you can make the outside radius larger by removing some of the waste with a table saw, and then using a hand plane to clean up. That handplane step seems difficult, but actually isn't bad. You draw the curve on both ends of the stock, and cut down to it with the plane. Then you take off the faceting with a sander. This is where it helps that the top and sides are solid lumber. You're not in any danger of going through the veneer with a sander.

[Nelson Howe]

I'd glue up the radiused corners out of several thin plys of what ever your wood is. Then your grain will wrap, and won't need the bread board. I don't care for the seasonal movement of the bread board. Probably use dominoes to join.

Nelson

[Tony Wilkins]

Is there anyway to do this with a secret miter dovetail? Outside would be easy but I cannot see a way to do the inside short of adding a shaped piece. Of course just because I can’t see a way doesn’t mean the folks here can’t.

[James Waldron]

A solid corner piece is going to require a decision that I wouldn't envy you: either you have to have a grain mismatch, with the corner piece running at 90 degrees to the face or you're going to have to come up with a most unusual piece to have the grain "wrap around" the corner. That could be rather hard to find and quite expensive. I begin to think the lamination route may not be quite so crazy. (But then again, I do a lot of work in laminating, so I don't find it quite so crazy to begin with.)

Of course, I'd cheat: I'd laminate veneers (1/16" or so) over a solid core. That way, I can use a simple piece for the core and my only difficulty would be slicing and finishing the shop made veneers. I assume if I can find stock for the top and bottom of the table, I can also find suitable matching stock to slice the veneer. And, of course, working in Jarrah, slicing the veneer is going to be a tough task. I use a carbide toothed blade on my band saw for resawing anyway, so with care it should be doable. Slowly, I suspect. If I ever get my hands on any Jarrah, maybe I'll give it a try.

[Brian Holcombe]

Derek, thinking a bit more about this I think it can be done with a full blind dovetail. Milling out the inside surfaces of the boards leaving enough for a radius and rounding over the outside.

Downside being the amount of short grain in the joint.

I think the crossgrain joint is much better suited to plywood panels.

[Derek Cohen]

Here's an option that does not have the inside curve.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BpfgiZWgEZI/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

Mike

Thanks Mike, but I cannot open that link.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Derek Cohen]

What do you have in mind for the outside radius of the corners? You could certainly make them out of solid wood. Probably out of the same wood as the rest of the case with the grain aligned so it appears to wrap around. You wouldn't need the breadboard thing and you wouldn't have to worry about seasonal dimension changes. I made some sketches that show the method and some basic dimensions. If you want I'll share them with you.

Dave, I would like to see your pics. Many thanks.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[David Bassett]

Thanks Mike, but I cannot open that link.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I think it must be this one: https://www.instagram.com/p/BpfgiZWgEZI/

[Peter Christensen]

I would crosscut @ 45degrees a thick board with the grain running the same direction as the top. Square up the tips of the 45's the thickness of the boards joining it. Then cove the inside corner. Biscuit the pieces, registering on the outsides, and then glue it together. When the clamps are off you can radius the outside corners. Don't like/have the biscuits. then Dominos, loose splines, mortice and tenon, dowels will all work instead.

[Mike King]

I don't see how L tenons could be used in that construct. Am I missing something? Oh, wait. I guess if a seam on the rounded face was OK you could do that but, the scale would be challenging.

Yep, you miter the case. The joinery is loose tenon using tenons shaped into an L from plywood. Provides much more meat in the corner to shape a radius.

Here's a link to an Instagram post by Adrian Ferrazzutti that shows the assembly of a case with L tenons. I learned this technique from him.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BpmcF4fg3IN

Mike

[James Pallas]

Make your top to length plus 2” for each end. Cut a rabbet on the ends leaving about 1/32 of material. Use any method you like, a dovetail bit maybe, to undercut the vertical end of the rabbet. Cut your curved end and match that with a miter to your undercut on the top. This keeps the veneer piece from bending right at the joint. Make a caul to clamp the veneer piece to the curve. Then just work your end pieces as needed. I don’t know how the jarrah bends so the thickness of your veneer piece may need to be thinner. I would use epoxy for the veneer. No biscuits or anything needed at the veneer part.
Jim

[Derek Cohen]

If I build the corners from a solid section, it is relatively straight forward to orient the grain and then plane the inside hollow and rounded outside. This is the picture I posted earlier ...


https://i.postimg.cc/fTBQm4k0/Davids-table5.jpg


The issue is how the mix of cross- and long grains would look. Very busy in my expectation.


An idea that has occurred to me (suggested by this picture, actually) - to hide the corner being an added section - is to make the entire carcase with the grain running across, rather than than along the length. It may be possible by bookmatching to hide any joins.


I've not seen a construction like this. Could be interesting :) What are your thoughts?


Regards from Perth


Derek

[John Stevens]

...make the entire carcase with the grain running across, rather than than along the length. It may be possible by bookmatching to hide any joints.

I've not seen a construction like this. Could be interesting :) What are your thoughts?


My $0.02 FWIW. I think a lot of woodworkers would overlook or reject that design because of a fear that the table would be prone to split along the grain as the top flexes lengthwise. The stretchers between the legs and the internal partitions would tend to mitigate the flexion, and you could use more than two stretchers to increase support. The difficulty, I think, is accommodating expansion and contraction along the length of the stretchers. Looking forward to reading more suggestions and seeing what you finally choose.

—John

[Derek Cohen]

John, just looking at this design gives me a headache. What appears so simple for a non-woodworker is a bloody nightmare when aware of the level of difficulty in the construction.

I have advised my nephew that he might reconsider a square end!

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Derek Cohen]

This is a cross post from the Oz forum. The drawings are courtesy of a formite there.


This is what I also thought to end up with ...


https://i.postimg.cc/YSb4KbxW/IMG-9621a.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/63q89nH1/IMG-9619.jpg

Joinery could be as simple as dominos.


I can shape this with a table saw and hand planes (perhaps - see below).


The question is whether one uses a single section used across the width. That is easier to shape with hand planes as one is planing long grain. However this may create more of a sectional look.


The other way is to join together sections, and to have the grain running into the the top. Looks better, but more work to shape, as planing across the grain. But perhaps not such a big deal to do.


Worth thinking about.


Regards from Perth


Derek

[Peter Christensen]

Derek that's what I was trying to suggest in post 23. With the grain running across the radius you can cove it with the table saw and sand to smooth it. Then the grain will run around the long direction of the table with nothing going across.

https://woodgears.ca/cove/index.html
https://woodgears.ca/cove/calculate.html

Added. Specially made blades are available for those that had a need for a lot of coves. They would leave a smother bottom.
https://sommerfeldtools.com/cove-cutter-for-curved-cabinetry
https://www.amazon.com/CMT-235-006-07-Cutter-800-523-11-Molding/dp/B000P4JP66

[Brian Holcombe]

Derek, that makes a joint where the abutments are short grain, the slightest force will break it out. I would not consider using it and consider making it to be quite dangerous. I think it is not worth the risk to personal safety and makes a poor product.

[Vincent Tai]

Derek, I also think that it can be done with full blind dovetails. This effect is done for stuff like boxes in Japan. Not sure if I have seen it done on this large a scale. There is a particularly large full blind dovetail in a Japanese timber framing video that has a 45 degree inner angle in place of the inner round but it does not run the whole way where as the traditional Japanese joint for the boxes do.

The large scale one.
https://youtu.be/RH6fNnGbHTU?t=108
Perhaps this technique can be adjusted to be made round instead.

I have seen this sort of thing on instagram (maybe even from a real Dane); I will go and trawl when I have the time, lots of helpful masters of the craft sharing stuff there. In the meantime here's a few links. First 2 are same vid different parts.

https://youtu.be/4AqLCg0jU4s?t=206

https://youtu.be/4AqLCg0jU4s?t=430

The audio is out during the part of the second link.


https://youtu.be/1MhuzCpB2Z0

This one is particularly helpful, I have been wanting to make this sort of stuff for awhile but until I get to it I get a bit of satisfaction from this guy's work.

https://youtu.be/1MhuzCpB2Z0

Here is his instagram which offers a deeper look into the process.
https://www.instagram.com/tozaidesign/

Good luck with this one. Can't wait to see the finished product.

[Vincent Tai]

Update; I've found the Dane. Went through a few of them until I found the table that was imprinted in my memory.

Really stunning work. He makes many other things and his boxes are really quite delightful and a treat for the eyes. His instagram is well worth a follow.
http://www.snedkersind.dk/fika/bdde5wh4i4vbdks2i3fbipwkubuink



396161
https://www.instagram.com/p/BE_p-Qup0--/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet


This picture is of particular importance
396159
https://www.instagram.com/p/BfIkCtfjQeY/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet




396162
https://www.instagram.com/p/BE_vvOTp08_/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

Please go to his website and instagram for more photos.

[Derek Cohen]

Vincent, I really like this last piece. That looks very doable.

It's a toss up between dovetailing the ends and then rounding the corner (and adding a filler to the inside and shaping that, as done here), or simply mitering the ends and rounding them. The latter allows the grain to flow around the sides and top, while the former is interesting in a different way (perhaps too busy?).

Irony is, the nephew has acknowledged that they like a square end as well, and would enjoy either. Decisions.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mike King]

Clearly the answer depends on how much time you want to put into it and when it will be finished...

Mike

[Patrick Walsh]

As much as I like the seemless flow of the inspiration table I really like the exposed dovetailed option above. I would had thought I’d prefer the hidden mitered dovetail but I don’t.

My concerns with any joint in this case would be wood movement and joint failure. Originally despite me not caring for veneer and much preferring solid wood construction I would had said go,the bent laminations route.

My concern with the hidden dovetails would be the possibility for the joint to fail in the slightest long term. Recently I had to make a similar joint for work purposes out of QS cherry. I opted for dominoes as apposed to hidden dovetails as my boss would had flipped if he caught me hand cutting dovetails. Anyway I left the pieces stacked sitting on my jointer in the shop,out of direct sunlight and or heat or drafts anything like that and one failed at the outside most two edges.

I’m about to start a build of a Krenov style case the box being comprised of solid real deal figured satinwood. I want to use secret dovetails at get the grain to wrap but I’m exptremely reluctant as if the joint ever fails I’ll be devistated. I’m thinking hell tennons or just plane old through dovetails for strength.

I’d be Leary of that design any other way than laminatations or veneer.

[William Fretwell]

The rounded corner dovetail is a very different look to the open round of the inspiration piece. I think it changes the Danish element of the design, feel free to ignore me!
Now if you want to double the dovetails and make a large solid corner round...............

[Flamone LaChaud]

Derek, one interesting question - is it the shape that's important, or the look of it being a three piece element (top, curve, side)? If it has to look exactly like that, I think that drawing from your Oz compatriot is the right thing, a larger rectangle that the top and side could breadboard into, and then cove out the belly and the back to your desired scope. If that's the ticket, I might suggest getting each 'corner piece' oversized, so that it would allow for there to be actual meat for the breadboard / mortice&tenon to provide a sturdy connection. This would also require either a more gentle curve to the edge, or the joining faces being a bit wider left to right if the sharper curve is more desired.

Just my .02.

[Brian Holcombe]

Update; I've found the Dane. Went through a few of them until I found the table that was imprinted in my memory.

Really stunning work. He makes many other things and his boxes are really quite delightful and a treat for the eyes. His instagram is well worth a follow.
http://www.snedkersind.dk/fika/bdde5wh4i4vbdks2i3fbipwkubuink



396161
https://www.instagram.com/p/BE_p-Qup0--/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet


This picture is of particular importance
396159
https://www.instagram.com/p/BfIkCtfjQeY/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet




396162
https://www.instagram.com/p/BE_vvOTp08_/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

Please go to his website and instagram for more photos.

Kristian’s piece is beautiful, very slick approach. I see a support on the inside of the joint used to make the fillet.

[Mike King]

Derek, did you see this?

http://www.instagram.com/p/BqbbjtNlCKq/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

[brian zawatsky]

Derek, did you see this?

http://www.instagram.com/p/BqbbjtNlCKq/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

A visually striking piece for sure, but the box joints are suspect as far as I'm concerned. Sure box joints give you lots of glue surface, but they rely entirely on the glue to hold the joint together. Personally I'd select a joint that also utilizes some mechanical advantage over just a glue joint. It does appear that he has the grain in the case ends oriented in the proper direction to allow for wood movement across the grain though.

[Brian Holcombe]

It’s a cool piece. I think box joints were a good choice for the corners, however personally I would want to hide the joinery when it is that apparent being multiple joints at each corner. I think I would wrap the entire case in veneer, seaming it at the bottom of the bottom corners.

In any case, that’s a serious piece of work to take on and he did a fine job on it.

[Derek Cohen]

I have begun the build, but was planning on a little more work before posting, since this is just prep at this stage.

This is the design chosen by my nephew ..

https://i.postimg.cc/6p7gvkCz/Davids-table1.jpg

There shall be a few interesting challenges along the way since I am using solid wood all the way.

The joinery will be rounded corners shaped from through dovetails, mitred at each side. The challenge is to have accurately cut and fitted dovetails in hard Jarrah (no compression) as the outside will be removed in the rounding process.

The other challenge is the splayed and angled legs which, for added strength, will be fitted to a traditional rail design, that is, the legs and stretchers will be mortice-and-tenon joinery. The legs will splay from the corners.

Lastly, the drawer will extend the full width, and be opened from either end. No handles.

Beginning the prep by resawing some really nice Fiddleback Jarrah, which will be the top and sides. The length of the coffee table is 1000mm ...

https://i.postimg.cc/9fBmPy7y/1a.jpg

I was watching the boards come out of the blade, keeping an eye on the kerf for movement. This even kerf told me that the boards were going to be well-mannered and stable ...

https://i.postimg.cc/0Q9R0wZR/2ax.jpg

Here's an example of the figure. These boards will be bookmatched to create a width of 500mm ...

https://i.postimg.cc/CLfwP38h/4a.jpg

The lower side of the coffee table will be made of more "common" narrower Jarrah boards (still extremely nice!). I picked up a length 4m long, and then joined three together to get the width ...

https://i.postimg.cc/HnrTCKPt/5a.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/L4WHV9nQ/7a.jpg

The boards were stickered for a week ..

https://i.postimg.cc/3NzYrBsQ/8a.jpg

Some may have liked to have accentuated the centre figure this way when book-matching ...

https://i.postimg.cc/pXh78Cx5/9ax.jpg

Too busy for my liking.

I preferred this ...

https://i.postimg.cc/DZj7HF5Z/16a.jpg

And this is where I left the boards at the end of last weekend ...

https://i.postimg.cc/B6QqmtTk/15a.jpg

I'll get back to the build this weekend, although Saturday morning I am picking up a new lathe (Nova Saturn DVR). I think that this will do a better job turning the legs than my current Jet mini :)

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Phil Mueller]

Nice choice of timber, Derek. I agree with your bookmatch choice. Look forward to seeing how this all goes together.

[Tom Bender]

Hi Derek
The drawing from the Oz forum is how I would go. To get the grain to run around the corner you will need thicker stock for the corner piece. So to make the top 1" thick you will need to use 2" stock and cut to length, then resew the flat panels.

If you want to add strength you could bend some steel and inset it inside the curve a few inches from the ends and finish it for minimal visibility.

[Eric Rathhaus]

Derek, the wood and your composition of the bookmatched pieces are beautiful. It's going to be a special gift!

[mike v flaim]

I would make a 12" tall form the diameter of the turn and laminate thin strips of wood to the form and clamp the wood together and do it eight times. Then, take take two of those pieces and edge glue them together to make the total length of the edge. Do it four times and you'll have all four curved edges. Then use a spline or Dominoes to attach the curved edges to the sides - top - bottom.

[Derek Cohen]

Thanks for the ideas, my friends, but I have a game plan I will stay with. It involves dovetailing on the square, and then rounding the outside, adding a filler to the inside and hollowing that. The result will be a little less round than the original, but will look cleaner.

I am hoping to start the build this coming weekend.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Christopher Charles]

Hi Derek,

Looks like a great challenge and I would have been surprised if you'd elected to go with the square design option. Thanks to you and Vincent for sharing the link to the Dane as I quite like his work, both in design and execution.

I'll be thinking of you over the next couple weeks as I'll be in Oz for a conference and then touring around SE with my son (Albury, Melbourne and the coast toward Sydney). No shop time, but am very excited for the trip!

Best,
Chris

[Vincent Tai]

Thanks for the ideas, my friends, but I have a game plan I will stay with. It involves dovetailing on the square, and then rounding the outside, adding a filler to the inside and hollowing that. The result will be a little less round than the original, but will look cleaner.

I am hoping to start the build this coming weekend.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek

I'm very excited, especially for the drawers. And this material; you are very lucky. I have only seen thin thin small boards of it sold here. I bought one five years ago and used some as plane soles just last week. I love it. I am sure there is somewhere in my city where it is sold in proper sizes; I have a friend whose family has chairs made of Jarrah, but they were made a long time ago. Hopefully this wood isn't on any list of bans.

Vince

[Derek Cohen]

The immediate challenge is to create the curved ends. The plan is to make dovetailed corners, round them on the outside and add a filler/filet to the inside corner, which will be hollowed to compliment the outer radius.

Complicating this is the need to mitre the insides of the dovetailed ends, since this will permit the shape to flow better than butt ends. Interesting ... as I have never made mitred dovetails to date. This is going to be a steep but quick learning curve!

I spent some time researching mitred dovetails. There is not much around. The only book I could find with directions was Ian Kirby's "The Complete Dovetail". I like Ian's work, but the writing here were not his best. There is a short video by Chris Schwarz (Google for it), which was helpful. There was also an article on the UKWorkshop forum (by Custard), which is a Pins-first method (I tend to saw Tails-first). There were one or two other articles to be found, of less assistance to someone like yours truly, who becomes easily spatially challenged. In the end I worked it out but, reflecting on the method that evolved, it does not look like those who came before. Perhaps it is a different way of doing it? I really do not know. Let me have your thoughts here. Anyway, I plan to show it for the education of those who want to learn a method.

Beginning with a tail board that has been marked and sawn (to speed up the description). Note that there is no shoulder here (which is common on butt ended dovetails). The wood is Merbau, which is hard, hard, hard. 20mm thick, as per the panels on the table ...

https://i.postimg.cc/02k0PQyp/1a.jpg

The aim is to saw all the tails. Forget about the mitre for now (... this is a departure from the methods I observed).

To make the removal of waste easiest, undercut the baselines (shallow cuts to avoid losing vertical) ...

https://i.postimg.cc/mgh315Mk/2a.jpg

Now fretsaw away the waste. Get as close to the baseline as you dare! My cuts are about 1mm ...

https://i.postimg.cc/SNg7shnH/3a.jpg

This enables the minimum of waste removal. You can place the chisel immediately against the chisel wall and pare/chop down halfway ...

https://i.postimg.cc/0jxd65d1/4a.jpg

With the waste removed, mark the mitre cuts at the sides - but do not cut them yet (this is another departure) ...

https://i.postimg.cc/wMV5DK0y/5a.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/76SnYJzN/6a.jpg

Time now to transfer the marks to the pin board.

First, here is an alternative to the "#140 trick" (the #140 trick involves creating a shallow rebate to securely connect the tail board to the pin board when transferring marks. This was popularised by Rob Cosman and Chris Schwarz, amongst others). My alternative is three layers of blue tape, which is peeled away afterwards.

Lay three layers of blue tape over the baseline. No need to be careful ...

https://i.postimg.cc/zDSFsW8z/7a.jpg

Now use the cutting gauge (which marked the tails) to slice away the tape, leaving an edge butting against the baseline ...

https://i.postimg.cc/4xM66Qb5/8a.jpg

This is the fence. Here it is seen with the pin board, which has a layer of blue tape on the end ...

https://i.postimg.cc/7L2gmJKy/9a.jpg

The "fence" makes it easy to align the boards, while the blue tape on the pin board also acts as a non-slip ..

https://i.postimg.cc/pTMK7VS5/10a.jpg

When you trace the sockets (with a knife), the outlines look like this (great for old eyes!) ...

https://i.postimg.cc/T1CmpV3n/11a.jpg

Drop all the vertical lines, with the exception of the line on the outside at each side ...

https://i.postimg.cc/T1CmpV3n/11a.jpg

Remove the waste in the same way as done on the tail board (undercut the baseline, fretsaw and chisel) ...

https://i.postimg.cc/cCswx90s/12a.jpg

Mark out the mitre lines ...

https://i.postimg.cc/Y23QnHzj/13a.jpg

.

[Derek Cohen]

.. and drop the verticals on the reverse side...

https://i.postimg.cc/YqCYTsdR/14a.jpg

Now saw the mitre cuts and remove the waste ...

https://i.postimg.cc/6p7RpGJG/15a.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/VLZnwWT8/16a.jpg

Do this on the tail board as well - the reason it was left until now was that it would be difficult to transfer the outside tail if the mitre was sawn.

Stay about 1mm from the mitre line. Do not saw to the line. This will be more accurately shaped with a chisel.

For chiseling, use a mitre guide. This is just a 45 degree saw cut. I made a double-ended guide - to use on opposing sides ..

https://i.postimg.cc/P5BDprTV/17a.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/MGVQy2G6/18a.jpg

Take it slowly, a smidgeon at a time.

https://i.postimg.cc/zBNR7tLn/19a.jpg

Finally ... the moment of truth arrives ... will she .. won't she ??

https://i.postimg.cc/qqM6VNxq/20a.jpg

Looking promising as the top is pressed together with finger pressure. Then I wack it - the wood is uncompromising. The clamp is to prevent any cracking in such circumstances.

https://i.postimg.cc/0QCKBYmh/21a.jpg

Not too shabby.

Mitres are tight ...

https://i.postimg.cc/HnZcpT62/22a.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/RVY6yV6C/23a.jpg

Now about the rounded edge ... here is the secret weapon:

https://i.postimg.cc/MGrzKtRy/23-1a.jpg

After marking out, the waste is removed with a block plane, and then sanded smooth. Just lacking the inner filet ...

https://i.postimg.cc/VLv0KbNH/24a.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/jqZJ6hR7/25a.jpg

Enough practice. Now for the real thing. A bit more of a challenge as the panels are 500mm wide.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[James Pallas]

Nice going Derek. You may have already discovered this. When working with full blind dovetails I found it easier to trim the pin board of the miter than the tail board. It's supported a little more and gives the opportunity to sneak up a little easier. At least that has been my experience. I do much the same as you when setting it up, no blue tape for a fence tho. I'll have to give that a go next time around.
Jim

[Christopher Charles]

Hello Derek,

The table is looking great and your tutorial on mitered dovetails is excellent as usual...will you be adding it to your website? Afraid it will be lost otherwise...

Best,
Chris

[William Fretwell]

Probably the same work as steam bending four laminations and then using splines, except that would give you the inside radius as well. I've done it with teak with great results. Once you have the form made you can bang out the 4 corners very quickly.

[Pat Barry]

Just my opinion of course, but I think the appeal of the original design is the contemporary look. I don't think you get that with exposed dovetails.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi William

Any photos?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[William Fretwell]

Yes somewhere, however I wrapped my huge creation in carbon fibre cloth and epoxy as it was to hang off the stern of a sail boat and hold a large solar panel so it could swivel. I can tell you 3 other sail boats have collided with my solar arch and it survived all three!

[James Pallas]

Looks like you have a plan Derek. If you are comfortable I say go for it. I think that a full blind would work also. From what I have seen if Japanese work they put many dovetails on full blind work. I would guess that that is where they get strength at the joint. And you are right that full blind work is pins first, I don't know how one could lay it out tails first. I think you have your work cut out for you due to width but I'm confident that you will get it done. Certainly will be a fine build to watch.
Jim

[Derek Cohen]

Thanks Jim. I did consider a full blind joint, and would have preferred this route for the continuity of the grain, however the outside of the joint is removed to make it round, and this would have then revealed the inside joinery.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[James Pallas]

Derek it never occurred to me to curve the outside of anything with full blinds. I believe you could make the pins and tails half the thickness and still have a solid joint. I'm not trying to convince you to change your plan. Just thinking it could be done. I don't have plans to make anything to try it on at this time. I going to keep it in mind to try it out. Maybe next year.
Jim

[Mike King]

Derek, nice progress and it looks great!

This came up on my Instagram feed and I thought it might be of interest as to an alternate way to approach the problem.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BrnXM4lA1T0/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

Mike

[Derek Cohen]

Thanks Mike. I have begun the dovetailing, so will not change horses at this stage. It does look interesting, nonetheless.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Derek Cohen]

A few progress shots.


The main focus is to complete the carcase. However, to do the carcase, it is important to plan ahead for the drawer case.


The drawer case (at 10mm) is half the thickness of the carcase (20mm). The (eventual) drawer fronts (one for each side) will be the same Fiddleback Jarrah as the top and sides, and will be inset (rather than lipped). The purpose of the thinner sides is simply aesthetic - I want it to look lighter, to subtly separate it from the carcase. The drawer front will be the same thickness as the carcase, and the drawer sides the same thickness as the drawer case.


Before beginning on dovetailing the ends, stopped dados were marked out for the drawer case. The lower- and upper panels were clamped together and a MDF template of the drawer case set in position...


https://i.postimg.cc/SR4MqxkH/Aa.jpg


Marked out, chisel walls made ...


https://i.postimg.cc/jdXzxPWc/Da.jpg


... to guide the saw cut ...


https://i.postimg.cc/sX7hthdp/Ea.jpg


Then chiseled ..


https://i.postimg.cc/vmpnqvjY/Ga.jpg


... and routered out ...


https://i.postimg.cc/7ZZSfh0k/Ha.jpg


Following the method outlined previously, the two ends and the top were joined with mitred through dovetails ...


https://i.postimg.cc/hjmtWR5X/1a.jpg


One edge ...


https://i.postimg.cc/ZnhKJsGV/2a.jpg


.. and the other side ...


https://i.postimg.cc/wMcxMcHH/3a.jpg


The plan now is to size the drawer case sides before dovetailing and joining the lower panel. Why the templates and sizing at this stage?


When the two ends of the lower panel have been dovetailed, the two sides of the drawer case must be fitted before the panel can be attached. In other words, these three pieces are fitted together at the same time.


Now, as the sides of the drawer case run in a stopped dado, they need to be sized beforehand. This fitting is different and far more exacting that in the typical carcase which as a stopped dado on one side only, and the dividing panels (which I term the drawer case) are slid in, allowing one to mark where the front rebates will go. In the present build, the front and rear rebates need to be determined beforehand, and cut before the parts are brought together.


The MDF template is to aid in measuring up the sides for the drawer case. This is one of the (number of) surprises of this build: it looks so simple from the outside, but when it comes to constructing ...


In the photo below, the dados are checked for size with a 10mm wide template ...


https://i.postimg.cc/Cxv1bN8x/4a.jpg


An MDF template checks the case sides are parallel ...


https://i.postimg.cc/9QX04Srk/8a.jpg


At the far end is another MDF template to size the drawer case sides ...


https://i.postimg.cc/XvmYzYQM/5a.jpg


That's it for now.


Regards from Perth


Derek

[James Pallas]

I always enjoy your builds Derek. I particularly like the ways you use to build and verify. Those are good reminders and help to reduce errors. Looks excellent so far.
Jim

[Tony Shea]

Really nice work. That's a lot of handwork and is extremely nice to see vs. breaking out a powered router to make those dado's.

[Derek Cohen]

Please note that I have edited the last post to clarify/better explain the build planning.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[William Fretwell]

Wonder if you are adding a longitudinal panel in the middle behind the drawers for rigidity in the longitudinal direction?
when the corner dovetails are rounded you loose over half the joint.
People sitting or standing on coffee tables in the age group of the recipient happens all too often!

[Derek Cohen]

William, there will be rails underneath connecting the legs.

I do not know if anyone will be stupid enough to sit on this coffee table. I can say that this Jarrah is some of the hardest and toughest wood I have worked for some time, especially the lower panel. Oh man ...

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Patrick Walsh]

Derek,

This piece is going to be beautiful. I agree to beautiful for the age group of the recipient but whatever little lasts forever.

Personally I like the exposed joinery.

You probably don’t care but I thought I would mention it as a few have apposed the exposed joinery. I find the design boring if I was laminated or the joinery hidden.

[William Fretwell]

Never held Jarrah let alone worked it! I would love to however..... The leg rails won't strengthen the box against longitudinal collapse. Clearly if Jarrah is that tough then should be fine, I just have seen some of my sons parties the day after...………
Your final glue up for this piece should be fun :rolleyes:.

[James Pallas]

Probability is I’ll get lambasted for this one. I don’t care for the look of exposed dovetails. I use them because l like the strength. I can cut them to look great. I don’t care for exposed box joints or thru mortises either. Whenever I see them exposed on the exterior of a piece I always think that it is the same as having exposed screw heads or nails. I’m not criticizing what people build with this statement it’s just not to look I like. In the case of Derek’s build it would be a real challenge to hide those tails in such a wide piece so perhaps it truly is the best way. As far as someone sitting on that joint and breaking it, it would take a really big person to do that. I’ve seen people break wooden ladders before but not many times.
Jim

[John Stevens]

[QUOTE=James Pallas;2881050I don’t care for the look of exposed dovetails. * * * I don’t care for exposed box joints or thru mortises either. Whenever I see them exposed on the exterior of a piece I always think that it is the same as having exposed screw heads or nails.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for saying that, because I’ve had very conflicted views about exposed joinery for years. On the one hand, a modest amount of exposed joinery seems to give visual interest, partly because of the patterns the joints make, and partly because of the skill they demonstrate—Dereck’s coffee table is an example, IMO. But exposed joinery can be over-used to the point that it seems crass; and machine-cut dovetails and faux joinery in Greene and Greene are false symbols of craftsmanship. Obviously (I hope it’s obvious) my comments are not directed toward the piece Dereck’s building. I only wanted to give Jim’s comments some recognition and support.

—John

[William Fretwell]

Thanks for saying that, because I’ve had very conflicted views about exposed joinery for years. On the one hand, a modest amount of exposed joinery seems to give visual interest, partly because of the patterns the joints make, and partly because of the skill they demonstrate—Dereck’s coffee table is an example, IMO. But exposed joinery can be over-used to the point that it seems crass; and machine-cut dovetails and faux joinery in Greene and Greene are false symbols of craftsmanship. Obviously (I hope it’s obvious) my comments are not directed toward the piece Dereck’s building. I only wanted to give Jim’s comments some recognition and support.

—John

John this is what happens when you have some knowledge of joinery. The general public can gush over ‘real joints’ and be engaged by the Krass.
Keeping the joint in context with the piece is the challenge. If the best joint is a double wedged through mortice do you make the wedges in a contrasting wood and make it ‘a feature’ or the same wood and keep it modest. Things like that can keep me up at night.
I share your opinion of Greene & Greene. Lots of older furniture got it right it’s the modern stuff that fails on many levels.

Derek’s joint here when rounded may not be that obvious, the large amount of work speaks to the necessity for strength so it works in the context of the peice but the inner parallel curve, originally desired, is lost.

[Derek Cohen]

Jim and John ... I do not disagree that exposed joinery can look tacky. I enjoy the Japanese style of hiding joinery as much as I enjoy exposed joinery in an appropriate context. I have dislikes of exposed joinery, for example, through dovetails on drawer fronts ... because it tends to make a piece too busy.

If it had been possible to just mitre the corners of this carcase, then that would have been my preference. However, that would have been a recipe for disaster as mitres are weak. They need to be reinforced, such as by a spline or Dominos. That could not be done in this case, for similar reasons to a full blind dovetail .. that is, the inside will be exposed when the ends are rounded. There are other ways to make this piece, such as adding a corner section. In my view, this makes the design look like a collection of parts.

So, in this case we will celebrate the joinery by making it a part of the design. Hopefully, the dovetails will not dominate. As the wood is dark, I expect them to blend in.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[James Pallas]

I didn’t mean to hack Derek’s thread. There was talk of weakening the joint by full blind tails and such. With 12 tails it would be hard to weaken the joint. People aren’t supposed to sit or stand on coffee tables. I realize that today there is more of that. What I remember is that if I dared sit on furniture other than what was intended for sitting my mother would have made it so I couldn’t sit on anything for a while. Derek’s build will look great. I just think it would look better without the tails showing and that there would be no sacrifice in strength.
Jim

[Brian Holcombe]

I don’t mind the exposed dovetails on this piece because it is dark.

Ive been tending to avoid exposed joinery anymore, but I often enjoy seeing hints such as the square draw bore pegs when they’re small. Just a little bit on each piece so the audience is aware of the considerations made.

[Denis Kenzior]

Probably not for the purists, but shows another approach that I found interesting. Note that the video is showing off the machine more than the woodworking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt1ES1WP454

[James Pallas]

I don’t mind the exposed dovetails on this piece because it is dark.

Ive been tending to avoid exposed joinery anymore, but I often enjoy seeing hints such as the square draw bore pegs when they’re small. Just a little bit on each piece so the audience is aware of the considerations made.

Could be that a discussion in another thread would be interesting. I don’t want to go too far abroad in Derek’s build thread. I’m very interested in this build.
Jim

[Patrick Walsh]

I couldn’t even watch the video, think I got like 15 seconds into it and had to run away.

What Derek is doing is actually fun, for the life of me unless it’s simply about making $$$ i can’t seemwhere the joy is in cnc.

Each to his own but I just assume go out and buy said item vrs building that way and find another hobby that isn’t Woodworking.

No offense meant to anyone we all find fun our own way. I like Derek’s way ;)



Probably not for the purists, but shows another approach that I found interesting. Note that the video is showing off the machine more than the woodworking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt1ES1WP454

[Derek Cohen]

Could be that a discussion in another thread would be interesting. I don’t want to go too far abroad in Derek’s build thread. I’m very interested in this build.
Jim

Go with it, Jim. I don't mind these side tracks. It is all about making decisions, and this process is as important as the physical side of building. Perhaps more important, since building is just cutting to a line ... and we have to know which line to cut to! :)

Denis, I have seen that video. My reaction was much the same as Patricks'. I suspect that the woodworker is an amateur using CNC woodworking to by-pass hand skills. Some may find this a way of building without going through the learning phase that most here have travelled. But it lacks all meaning for me - half the fun is the challenge. Plus, the result looks crude to me.

I received an email notification, from Wood and Shop, of a video by Dave Heller on London dovetails which feature one mitred side. This is done pins first, as an alternative to the tails first I demonstrated. The video is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdBHpbUxCPE

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jessica de Boer]

I don't know if it's available in Australia but it's the easiest and fastest way to do a curved corner. I can get them in several radii with or without a veneer top layer and a thickness of 15, 18, 20 or 22mm.

I would in fact make the whole table from veneered plywood and connect the round corners with cookies. Keep it simple.

https://www.rondekozijnen.nl/fileadmin/user_upload/Afbeeldingen/Multiplex_Hoeken/HOEKPROFIELEN__8_.JPG

[John Patric]

Kinda takes the fine out of furniture. (Plywood curves that is).

[Derek Cohen]

I don't know if it's available in Australia but it's the easiest and fastest way to do a curved corner. I can get them in several radii with or without a veneer top layer and a thickness of 15, 18, 20 or 22mm.

I would in fact make the whole table from veneered plywood and connect the round corners with cookies. Keep it simple.

Jessica, I can see that would work. And veneered, it would look like the model my nephew chose. This method is exactly what I would do if I were building several and to a short deadline. It is the way of a professional woodworker with an eye on costs, effort and time.

The coffee table I build for my nephew will be something he will hopefully treasure for many years to come. It will have an individuality that sets it apart from mass-produced pieces. This is not about sensible short cuts, but about romantic handwork. And hopefully, some of the passion and care that went into the work will be recognised and appreciated by the family that live with it.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[J. Greg Jones]

Wow, I could have used some of those curved corners last summer. I volunteer as the prop maker for a high school marching band show, and last summer I made three large cell phones (plus a phone charger), with the largest one 12 feet long. I made the corners by cutting non-through kerfs in the ply, then soaking them and bending them on a form. I expect I made well over a thousand cuts total on the table saw to get the 16 corners made. I wasn't aware that pre-curved corners exist. Sorry to veer this off topic, but I had to comment on those corners.

[Brian Holcombe]

I don't know if it's available in Australia but it's the easiest and fastest way to do a curved corner. I can get them in several radii with or without a veneer top layer and a thickness of 15, 18, 20 or 22mm.

I would in fact make the whole table from veneered plywood and connect the round corners with cookies. Keep it simple.

https://www.rondekozijnen.nl/fileadmin/user_upload/Afbeeldingen/Multiplex_Hoeken/HOEKPROFIELEN__8_.JPG

I like this, makes a nice big radius without having to make your own forms. I made a lego's table for my son over the holiday from BB ply and used a lock mitered corner. It makes a hard edge, this radius would have been a better way to do it.

[James Pallas]

I have to admit that I’ve not seen those plywood radii before. Upon seeing them many uses come to mind, pedestal tables, columns etc. A little veneer and away you go. I like plywood for filling in those big open spaces. I don’t have a problem with it at all. Similar things have been done for a long time. Laid up brick curves and such. The quality of the plywood comes into question more than the product itself.
Jim

[Edwin Santos]

I suspect that the woodworker is an amateur using CNC woodworking to by-pass hand skills. Some may find this a way of building without going through the learning phase that most here have travelled. But it lacks all meaning for me - half the fun is the challenge. Plus, the result looks crude to me.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek - C'mon no need to be condescending. No question he's not an artisan in your class but I don't think he's trying to be one either. It may not be fair to characterize him as a clod relying on an expensive crutch. Some people's art medium is the innovative technology and engineering. I see what the video is showcasing as a very different apple to your orange and one doesn't have to suck for the other to be good.

I think they're selling that machine, probably aimed at a production customer.

BTW I think your work is awesome. My comment goes both ways. The guy in the video would have no business criticizing you or any hand tool artisan either.
Edwin

[James Pallas]

I’m positively no expert on these things. Here is my take on exposed joinery. In the past a lot of effort was made to coverup mechanical joinery in favor of smooth and free flowing work. Crown molding on case work, beaded molding to cover sliding dovetails, cock beading on drawers. I think that in the machine age the need for speed became the driving force. The advancement of glue technology helped. Miters glued and stuck together with nails. Things began to fall apart and people didn’t like it. Furniture was suppose to last after all. In order to prove the work was good and strong makers began to expose the joinery to prove their products worth. I can remember my parents talking about furniture purchases and saying things to indicate that dovetails made it better, true by the way. The era came that you had to prove it, it was not excepted that drawers were dovetailed if you couldn’t see for yourself. Greene and Greene, Stickley and such. This is just my take on the subject.
Jim

[Jessica de Boer]

I looked up the specifications from my supplier just to be sure and I was actually a bit off on the thickness because I don't use these corner profiles a lot.

Thickness: 12-13mm, 15-16mm and 18-19mm.
Radius: 30, 40, 55, 70, 100, 130, 170, 200, 250mm.

[James Pallas]

I looked up the specifications from my supplier just to be sure and I was actually a bit off on the thickness because I don't use these corner profiles a lot.

Thickness: 12-13mm, 15-16mm and 18-19mm.
Radius: 30, 40, 55, 70, 100, 130, 170, 200, 250mm.
Jessica, I would find it interesting if you could post some of your work using the curved pieces. I would think others here would like to see it also.
Thanks, Jim

[Derek Cohen]

I assembled the carcase today. This began with glueing the one end and, while that dried, fitting the sides of the drawer box ...


https://i.postimg.cc/QdB5SJjk/2.jpg


https://i.postimg.cc/02XDpB1y/4.jpg


Someone predicted that this glue up would be interesting. Was it ever.


I had this plan to glue the ends, attach the drawer box, and then simply drop the top side into place. What could be easier?


Except ... I realised as I positioned the drawer box dividers in their stopped dados - and was just about to glue in the other end - that the ends were tails and the top section had pins ... and they needed to be slid in horizontally, not vertically! The order of assembly should have been: fit drawer box to open base, add top section, now add one end and then the other.


I removed the drawer box parts, and attached the top panel to the already glued end. Lifting the top at an angle, the drawer box dividers were wiggled in. And then I discovered that they were 10mm too high!


Oh hell (or some other descriptive) .. I propped up the top panel, quickly calculated how much needed to be removed on the table saw, did both dividers, rebated the ends again ...


https://i.postimg.cc/GptDg0Gf/3.jpg


... it fits ... (phew)


.. up ended the monster (which weighed a bloody ton, but I was now a demon possessed of desperation strength!), glued in the last side, and squared the carcase ....


https://i.postimg.cc/yY803z5G/5.jpg


And everything is square ...


https://i.postimg.cc/htHmYQjF/1.jpg


I'll clean it up tomorrow, and then start on rounding the ends.


Regards from Perth


Derek

[Patrick Walsh]

Two things.

That’s just the kind of thing I do on just about every project. I hate to admit it but I feel much better know knowing I’m not alone even to the likes of a talented craftsman such as yourself.

Second is everything really square. Or is that square confidently hidden around the corner ;)

I’m kidding Derek, it looks really really good. I’m jealous you always seem to finish projects in rather timely fashion.

Happy new year and be well.

[Derek Cohen]

Thanks Patrick ... and a happy new year to you as well!

Regards from Perth

Derek

[James Pallas]

Now that is a great glue up story. I’m glad it’s yours. Nice looking case Derek. Should make someone very pleased.
Jim

[Pat Barry]

Good thing you recognized the issue before gluing on the second side. Nice work!

[Edwin Santos]

This is shaping up to be really lovely.
Very interesting thread, starting with the design goals and challenges and now into the construction. At one point I was in the camp of thinking exposed dovetails might not be true to the clean modern look of the inspiration photo, but now I'm starting to think this will look better. Of course it's all subjective, but sometimes I think we live in a build to suit world where things are made to explicit specifications. There's something beautiful about a piece that becomes a product of the artist/craftsman's vision and evolves in its own way with some element of surprise for the recipient.

Not that Derek asked for finish suggestions, but I might propose a finish that does not amplify the dovetails, in other words keep them subtle so they don't scream from across the room. Let the viewer discover them as they get closer to the piece. Maybe a seal coat of shellac so the end grain in the pins does not darken as much as it would with an oil finish? Of course from there you could top coat with anything.
Thank you for taking the time to post and share this journey, look forward to seeing how it evolves.
Edwin

[Derek Cohen]

Good thing you recognized the issue before gluing on the second side. Nice work!

Actually Pat ....

Yes, I omitted that part. Not deliberately, just forgot. Thank you Titebond hide glue ... reversable (and renewable) and cleaned up in warm water.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Brian Holcombe]

Most furniture is finished in a plastic type finish so that the wood is not easily damaged when water is left to sit on it. Because of this people are less familiar with the effect of a wet glass on wood left for a few hours.

Your family may may be aware but they have friends and best not to strain their relations with a light finish that is easily damaged.

I’ve been trying zero VOC wax based finishes but for now I’m using wipe on poly fit table tops. I turned my nose up at it forever but after refinishing a few table tops I’ve thought better of it.

[Derek Cohen]

Brian, for table tops such as these, which will take some abuse, one either uses an easily repairable finish, such as shellac - and be prepared to do so, perhaps often - or finish in something durable. I've become a fan of water-based poly (which I used on my kitchen). I wipe/rub it on, and the result is a clear, matt, and non-yellowing finish that dries fast, has no lingering smell, and simply lets the wood through.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tony Shea]

I ended up using Osmo Top Oil on a butcher block style island countertop for our kitchen. It is a large island top, 3'x7' and gets used constantly. I used the Top Oil only because I read that it was safer for food prep areas but we honestly don't prep food right on the counter top so the Polyx Oil version would have been fine. I am actually blown away by the durability of this finish which is something I wasn't expecting. I was expecting to have to touch it up from time to time as I had zero experience with Osmo of any kind. After having this counter in use for over a year now I am a believer in Osmo and completely understand the following behind it. The countertop is maple and cherry therefore I didn't want any sort of yellowing to the maple. The maple shows absolutely no yellowing at all. After all the research on how to apply this stuff I kind of ignored the instructions on the final coat and laid it on a little heavy with a nice brush. This turned out to be a great decision and is what I credit the durability of this top to.

Having said all of this I highly recommend Osmo finishes for a durable table top finish that doesn't plasticize like polyurethane finishes. I am in the process of building a round breakfast/dining table and plan to use the same finish on this top as I am that happy with the results.

[Brian Holcombe]

Brian, for table tops such as these, which will take some abuse, one either uses an easily repairable finish, such as shellac - and be prepared to do so, perhaps often - or finish in something durable. I've become a fan of water-based poly (which I used on my kitchen). I wipe/rub it on, and the result is a clear, matt, and non-yellowing finish that dries fast, has no lingering smell, and simply lets the wood through.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I was under the impression from the other posts that you were in search of a finish, but sounds like you've already come to a similar conclusion to my own.

Anywho, I have plenty of experience with shellac and table tops enough to not use it for table tops outside of my own home. Same for light oil varnishes, which need to build to offer protection.

I have just started to try out a hardwax oil finish from Germany but have yet to develop any experience with how it survives in the wild.

[Derek Cohen]

When we left off, it was with the carcase together ...


https://i.postimg.cc/htHmYQjF/1.jpg


Step 1: clean up the carcase


Low angle plane for the end grain and cross grain ends ..


https://i.postimg.cc/JnBfFWD4/A.jpg


Then the face grain top and bottom ..


https://i.postimg.cc/cCS4nncW/12a.jpg


And I had a chance to use a small BU infill smoother I made several years ago on the edges. Perfect for one-handed smoothing ...


https://i.postimg.cc/TPKwMGPz/13a.jpg




Step 2: Time to round the ends.


In the test piece, it looked like this ..


https://i.postimg.cc/VLv0KbNH/24a.jpg


This lacked the inside hollowed filet. The build today starts with the making of the filet.


The first decision was that this had to be made of end grain. If it was made of side grain, the sides of the filet would be end grain, which would clash - darken - with the side grain of the carcase when a finish is applied. Fortunately, I had this one last offcut. Just enough ...


https://i.postimg.cc/yxmwVXyM/1.jpg


The filet is triangular with a hollow on the outside. I first tried shaping this with a hollow plane on a sticking board, having sliced off a triangular section on the table saw. It was impossible to do. No way to hold the wood and plane it. I tried a number of variations. I won't go there. They were all impossible. You do it, you're a better man - or woman - than me. You're probably better anyway :)


Finally I came up with this. Start with ripping a 45 degree bevel on the table saw (slider here, with board held in a Fritz and Franz jig) ...


https://i.postimg.cc/GmhZCD8f/2.jpg


The router table is set up with a round nose bit ...


https://i.postimg.cc/wTzCwZ6g/3.jpg


The mitre can be run past this and the bit will shape a round hollow ..


https://i.postimg.cc/fynGngm7/4.jpg[/img


[img]https://i.postimg.cc/s28FK22N/5.jpg


Now saw this off on the table saw ...


https://i.postimg.cc/7PSvMwrK/6.jpg


https://i.postimg.cc/yYTwtjd9/7.jpg


I made a bunch of them (as they are a little fragile) ...


https://i.postimg.cc/sDzvBtnW/8a.jpg


Before glueing them in, each was sanded - 80/120/240 grit on a dowel, with the filet held on the sticking board ..


https://i.postimg.cc/2yQycw53/9a.jpg


The filets were then glued in (Titebond hide glue for everything). A dowel was used to place pressure evenly on the corners ...


https://i.postimg.cc/P53xRNdb/10a.jpg

[Derek Cohen]

Step 3: shape the ends


I used a larger washer than this one this time to mark out the curve (as the radius needed to be reduced) ...


https://i.postimg.cc/MGrzKtRy/23-1a.jpg


Then began planing ...


https://i.postimg.cc/PrMN12cR/14a.jpg


https://i.postimg.cc/05Dzy8Cx/15a.jpg


Refined with a block plane ...


https://i.postimg.cc/dVt36Gct/16a.jpg


https://i.postimg.cc/zvZ3FM89/17a.jpg


... and finished with sandpaper.


https://i.postimg.cc/sx4f9gnh/19a.jpg


https://i.postimg.cc/k4tB893Q/18a.jpg


https://i.postimg.cc/KcPYy0Z8/20a.jpg


That's it for today. Next I begin the tapered and splayed legs.


Regards from Perth


Derek

[Patrick Walsh]

Holly hell Derek!

What a pos.....

;)

Me likey very much!

[Mark Rainey]

Looking good Derek

[Tony Wilkins]

Coming along very nicely, as usual.

[James Pallas]

I’m impressed with the execution of the work. I just want to know how you are going to top this one. Very nice looking tails.
Jim

[Derek Cohen]

Jim, you say that every time - the fun is extending yourself a little each time. There is always something new to learn. :)

Still lots to do, and a new lathe to use ... for the first time! :cool:

Regards from Perth

Derek

[James Pallas]

Jim, you say that every time - the fun is extending yourself a little each time. There is always something new to learn. :)

Still lots to do, and a new lathe to use ... for the first time! :cool:

Regards from Perth

Derek

Just fun Derek. I’m always looking to try something new. Trying something new is one of the best parts of woodworking. Watching your builds encourages me to do something new or try to find different ways to accomplish a task.
Thanks Jim

p.s. I hope giving you a little nudge isn’t too bothersome.

[Derek Cohen]

Bothersome, Jim? Nah ... never. Friendly teasing :)

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Derek Cohen]

We are at the stage where the base - rail with tapered and splayed legs - is to be done next. This is the photo of the model ...


https://i.postimg.cc/6p7gvkCz/Davids-table1.jpg


I like this base, and have chosen to replicate it. The two relevant items are the angle of the splay (which I estimated as 10 degrees), and the positioning of the ends of the legs (these appear to end in line with the carcase).


I get my Jarrah these days from an urban salvage yard, but some of it is ex-roofing beams, like this ...


https://i.postimg.cc/mkRF45qQ/1a.jpg


It is a wonderful moment when it comes out the other end ...


https://i.postimg.cc/gjDL2KF1/2a.jpg


I planed up a couple of these to find 4 blanks that would make the legs. Each is 450mm long. The legs will taper in the round from 40mm at the top to 25mm at the bottom.


The mortices were marked out ...


https://i.postimg.cc/bJ12Kh6y/3a.jpg


... and routed out (I have a great jig for this - just made for hard, hard woods) ..


https://i.postimg.cc/gJdNtmdp/22a.jpg


.. leaving ...


https://i.postimg.cc/Jhfk6n5Y/4a.jpg


The ends of the mortices are squared up ...


https://i.postimg.cc/s2QW4S7Z/5a.jpg


.. and then onto the lathe ...


https://i.postimg.cc/52tLjDtg/6a.jpg


A little tinted epoxy is needed to repair some of the resin holes ...


https://i.postimg.cc/tRhhchf3/7a.jpg


https://i.postimg.cc/GtJGsCY7/8a.jpg


Next step is to determine the length of the rails. This is a no-math process that simply involves laying out the parts, with the legs at 10 degrees ...


https://i.postimg.cc/DwYsG5JT/10a.jpg


https://i.postimg.cc/dt6GsJJD/8-1a.jpg


Sawing the tenons is easy enough. The rails are 19mm (3/4") and the tenon/mortice is 1/4" wide ..


https://i.postimg.cc/5NbwWXdZ/9a.jpg


The tenon shoulder needs to be fitted flush with the leg ...


https://i.postimg.cc/j2ry55Wn/11a.jpg

[Derek Cohen]

The easiest way is to use blue tape to mark the shoulders ...


https://i.postimg.cc/YC2fYhd1/12a.jpg


https://i.postimg.cc/63ZdtRQN/13a.jpg


The shoulder of the mortice is levelled with a chisel and rasp ..


https://i.postimg.cc/cLD7m0zP/15a.jpg


... until each is a good fit ..


https://i.postimg.cc/RVLLWcLS/16a.jpg


Finally, the glue up begins ...


https://i.postimg.cc/vHsv8P92/18a.jpg


https://i.postimg.cc/hGfLZNWv/20a.jpg


I pulled off the clamps a short while ago ...


https://i.postimg.cc/wxG703xX/21a.jpg


I'll clean it up in the morning.


Regards from Perth


Derek

[William Fretwell]

Well the inner quadrant is the weak spot. It occurs to me that not turning the end of the leg would preserve more of the inner quadrant, keep a square face for the stretchers and increase the footprint of the leg top on the table bottom.
The outer quadrants could be rounded by hand using the turned face for reference.
Perhaps a small detail but that inner quadrant with two mortices ends up awfully narrow at the inner part of the leg. Back to my crazy teenager thing!
Nice lathe by the way!

[Derek Cohen]

William, your points make sense. Keeping it square is less of a concern than strength. Squareness just takes a little more work. Strength has to be built in.

New lathe! Christmas and birthday present in one. Got a good price on Black Friday. 10 years on a Jet mini. I don't know myself now :)

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Derek Cohen]

Finishing the base ..


Splayed legs leave their tops angled with the rails, and they need to be flushed ...


https://i.postimg.cc/nz6Yzdqd/5a.jpg


... to be coplanar on both sides ...


https://i.postimg.cc/ncfGfPFr/7a.jpg


https://i.postimg.cc/FH9b7kJQ/8a.jpg


The next step was to add corner reinforcing blocks. These were glued and screwed ...


https://i.postimg.cc/DZWP7V4J/9a.jpg


You can see they follow the angled rails (created by the splayed legs).


The under side ..


https://i.postimg.cc/DzpcVf03/10a.jpg


The final stage was to level the legs. Measure the height at each corner, and use wedges under each leg until the height is the same for all ...


https://i.postimg.cc/Y2GdHFQn/11a.jpg


https://i.postimg.cc/v8J3HmzQ/12a.jpg


https://i.postimg.cc/wTDFtdfD/13a.jpg


Hot glue the wedges so they do not move ...


https://i.postimg.cc/zGjjjF1B/14a.jpg


Once done, scribe the bottom of each leg ...


https://i.postimg.cc/DwF6LYHH/15a.jpg


Electrician's tape is great for marking at an angle ...


https://i.postimg.cc/tTfD6RGN/17a.jpg


Saw off the waste, and we are done ...


https://i.postimg.cc/zvg7FmJZ/19a.jpg


I checked the result with a digital angle box. All good. Sanded to 240 grit ...


https://i.postimg.cc/nzvgnQDQ/20a.jpg


The drawer and finishing is left to do.


Regards from Perth


Derek

[Derek Cohen]

An up to date photo ...

It is now beginning to look like something familiar ....


https://i.postimg.cc/xjvX1cwL/1a.jpg


The legs appear pretty strong and solid. No flex.


Regards from Perth


Derek

[Mark Rainey]

It is coming together! Looking very familiar.

[Tony Wilkins]

Looking great, really coming together. Looks nothing like the original;)

[Pat Barry]

Amazing work!

[Derek Cohen]

Last time the base was completed, and we had a quick look at the parts together. It is not fully sanded yet, and no finish obviously. It feels very solid in the legs - I know there were some that were concerned about the 10 degree splay ....


https://i.postimg.cc/tgH8rkNc/1a.jpg


The - almost - last lap is here, the building of the drawer. I do not want to bore the pants off all with yet another dovetailing, so rather here are some pictures of the decisions and tasks that need to take place for a well-fitted drawer.


The first decision was to choose the wood for the drawer front, and the panel at the other side (the drawer will open on one side of the coffee table, and the other side will be a fixed panel similar to the drawer front).


There is just enough of the Fiddleback Jarrah for these panels. The orientation of the figure needs to be chosen, otherwise it will look like a dog's breakfast ...


https://i.postimg.cc/dthMDL05/3a.jpg


https://i.postimg.cc/jSfGQmPN/4a.jpg


It is beautiful wood, but very interlocked. The double iron works its wonders ..


https://i.postimg.cc/qR1c3B7L/7a.jpg


The length is short enough to joint on a shooting board ..


https://i.postimg.cc/V6fBv0zv/11a.jpg


Mark the width ..


https://i.postimg.cc/TPqJTJMB/9a.jpg


... and shoot to the line.


The ends are squared ...


https://i.postimg.cc/0NqCgH3p/8a.jpg


I frequently read how important it is to have a backing board when shooting end grain to prevent spelching. This is not important at all. The best strategy is to score the line you will plane to, and then add a chamfer at the end. Use the shooting plane for this ...


https://i.postimg.cc/Dy861GLb/8-2a.jpg


Now plane until the chamfer disappears ...


https://i.postimg.cc/13FKjZWm/8-1a.jpg


No spelching ...


https://i.postimg.cc/QN6SBm93/8-3a.jpg


The fitted drawer front ...


https://i.postimg.cc/28MwG579/13a.jpg


... is tight to the sides and has about 1mm gap at the top.


The back board of the drawer, and the rear panel ...


https://i.postimg.cc/RhbTjC5F/14a.jpg


These are the drawer parts: the front is 19mm thick, the quarter sawn Tasmanian Oak sides are 10mm (slightly thicker than my usual 8mm as it needs to be a little beefier) and the rear is 12mm ...


https://i.postimg.cc/Rh0Rs6Yy/15a.jpg


A peek at the drawer ...


https://i.postimg.cc/d08Bt46F/1a.jpg


All the details in the last chapter next time.


Regards from Perth


Derek

[Hasin Haroon]

Really enjoying following along Derek, beautiful craftsmanship as always

[michael langman]

Very nice Derek! I just do not understand what keeps those middle pins from not breaking off.

[Christopher Charles]

Fantastic Derek.

I really like the chamfer trick and will try it soon--the LV shooter is now perhaps my favorite plane.

For some reason, I recalled the drawer would open from both sides, but obviously i'm mis-remembering.

And good luck finding a purpose with the off-cuts from the draw front--beautiful wood and scraps are great but can sure pile up!

Best,
Chris

[John Schtrumpf]

Fantastic Derek.
... For some reason, I recalled the drawer would open from both sides, but obviously i'm mis-remembering...

Best,
Chris
I assumed that the drawer was going to open from both sides also. I am waiting to see how Derek attaches the back panel now.

Derek: I am enjoying watching your build and so far it looks great.

[Derek Cohen]

Very nice Derek! I just do not understand what keeps those middle pins from not breaking off.

Michael, the pins are held on with will power. And determination. Made by Titebond. :)

Actually, once glued they may be stronger than wider aspect dovetails, because the surface area of side grain and glue is increased. I have never had a failure, but I do admit that they are as much a measure of showing off as for the aesthetic. Anyone visiting who looks at the drawer knowingly will recognise that they were handmade.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Vincent Tai]

Michael, the pins are held on with will power. And determination. Made by Titebond. :)

Actually, once glued they may be stronger than wider aspect dovetails, because the surface area of side grain and glue is increased. I have never had a failure, but I do admit that they are as much a measure of showing off as for the aesthetic. Anyone visiting who looks at the drawer knowingly will recognise that they were handmade.

Regards from Perth

Derek

And if one visualizes what is going on, the pin itself as a whole is strong. I have a dovetail box like 13x8" or something that I never glued up, I knock it apart a few timed a year, it's got half blind dovetails with these skinny pins. Holds up fine unglued and gone through holding a bottle of scotch rattling about in my bag, Derek's work with glue will hold up fine to anything reasonable and then some.

Very nice work Derek. I'll admit I want a nice shiny shellac on that figured grain! Might be too loud for most though...

[Phil Mueller]

Looks great, Derek. Question on your drawer design. I notice the top of the drawer face extends above the drawer sides. Is that something you leave, or plane off to fit?

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Phil

Some of the drawer face is to be planed off. Expansion takes place across the width (height? .. of the drawer front), which is why the sides are lower.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Derek Cohen]

This was the model for the coffee table my nephew chose when I offered to build them a wedding present ...


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AnotherCoffeeTable1_html_m7fcab0c6.jpg


Let's see how we did ....


Before the coffee table was assembled from the parts, I was mindful that it would be shipped from Perth to Sydney (which is the further than New York to LA). The main concern was that the container might bounce (be dropped or be handled roughly), and the weight of the heavy Jarrah top coming down on the splayed legs might cause them severe damage. (I am not concerned about the strength of the legs for normal home use - the construction is strong. More shortly).


So, I build a table out of MDF that could be placed under the coffee table, and would take all the weight ...


https://i.postimg.cc/D0wsRZ1b/1-Transport1a.jpg


https://i.postimg.cc/L5QfSpVQ/2-Transport2a.jpg


The top and base were connected with steel angle brackets ...


https://i.postimg.cc/28JvXCyV/3-Connectors2a.jpg


Part of the strength in the splayed legs comes from the corner brackets, which act to lock in the mortice-and-tenon joint by preventing movement. These steel angle brackets further lock in the base from any possible twisting.


The brackets are angled to 10 degrees to match the inside of the rails ...


https://i.postimg.cc/8kZLMRVd/4-Connectors1a.jpg


Incidentally, the best, and cheapest, anvil is this section of steel angle, the insides of which are lines with Hard Maple scrap, and then clamped in the leg vise over a leg ....


https://i.postimg.cc/8PsMH712/5-Anvila.jpg


The finish for the wood - Fiddleback Jarrah for the top of the carcase and the drawer fronts, and Jarrah for the base of the carcase and base/legs - was chosen for durability. It needs to be capable of resisting water marks and heat, and still have a natural appearance - not a sit-on-top finish, such as a poly or varnish. Most oil finishes are not durable enough.


What I went with in the end was Evolution (satin), a hard wax oil by Whittle. This is a floor finish, and in the examples I saw it looked more like a waxed oil finish. The reports and reviews were highly favourable. I must say, after using it, I was completely sold. It is fantastic! The surfaces were sanded to 400 grit (Abranet), and then two coats were rubbed on with a micromesh cloth, 8 hours apart. Any residue was removed immediately. There was no grain raising that I could detect, however I did rub down the first coats with 400 grit grey mesh.


The drawer case was waxed (only) with Lincoln Furniture Wax. This is a shellac-based wax. The inside of the drawer was finished with Ubeaut Hard Shellac diluted 50% with methylated spirits (alcohol). All of the above are Australian products. The interior of the drawer was lined in leather, which was waxed with Renaissance Wax.


https://i.postimg.cc/BnKFrRPN/6-Finishesa.jpg


This is a close up of the Evolution. It is so much nicer in the flesh. Silky ...


https://i.postimg.cc/xdVmngKQ/7-Finish2a.jpg


OK, to the coffee table ...


The front, with the drawer (and the agonised-over-drawer-handle-pull-whatever) ..


https://i.postimg.cc/Lsk1XfT1/8a.jpg


https://i.postimg.cc/G2css27S/9a.jpg


The colour, figure, and those rounded dovetails look fantastic ...


https://i.postimg.cc/9MJwPhsX/10a.jpg


Other end ...


https://i.postimg.cc/sxLB8JVt/11a.jpg


The rear has a closed panel. At the start of the project I had planned to make the drawer run all the way through, and open from each side. On reflection, this created more problems than it was worth, and so the one side was closed in with the same panel used as a drawer front ...


https://i.postimg.cc/15LnrM7F/12a.jpg

[Derek Cohen]

The Jarrah base and splayed, tapered legs ...


https://i.postimg.cc/6qq2YPNr/13a.jpg


Finally the drawer ...


The drawer stop used was the same design as used in the Apothecary Chest. This is adjustable, which enable the position of the drawer front to be fine tuned ...


https://i.postimg.cc/KcpgRmnJ/14-1a.jpg


The 10mm drawer sides are Tasmanian Oak, which I find great for this purpose as it all comes quarter sawn. It is a moderately hard wood (by Oz standards). Plywood was used for the drawer bottom, as it was inset in grooves and covered in leather. Jarrah cove moulding was made to finish.


https://i.postimg.cc/15gVFbBP/15a.jpg


https://i.postimg.cc/DwLWjsRM/16a.jpg


Inside there is an inscribed brass plate for remembrance ...


https://i.postimg.cc/1zS8LXQ5/17a.jpg


Thanks for all the contributions and discussion along the way.


Regards from Perth


Derek

[Michael Todrin]

Super work and a fun project. Your finish came out great.

[Mark Rainey]

Beautiful table Derek! Mark

[James Pallas]

Very well done Derek. One can get little glimpses of the work from photos. I’m sure that in person it is far better to see. Even in the photos the finish looks excellent.
Jim

[Patrick McCarthy]

Derek,
I again have to compliment you on both the build, the thread and end product. I am certain your nephew will be thrilled, and that all visitors to their home will be stroking and admiring it. Very nicely done, sir.
Best regards, Patrick

[J. Greg Jones]

Just stunning work there Derek, you have to be pleased with that!

[Christopher Charles]

A fabulous gift! And your detailed threads are a gift to all of us on SMC--many thanks Derek!

[michael langman]

I'm sure that table will be cherished for many lifetimes Derek. I would love to see the look on their faces when they open the package. Great post too.

[Rob Luter]

Very nice Derek. You nailed the mid century modern look.

With respect to shipping, why all the added weight of the MDF box beneath? Just crate and ship it upside down.

[Patrick Walsh]

Wow!

Very very nice....

I couldn’t give that away. You are a better man than I..

[brian zawatsky]

Bravo sir! Beautifully executed, as usual. Gives the rest of us poor slobs something to shoot for lol

[michael langman]

You crack me up Brian.

[Stew Denton]

Derek,

Beautiful work!

Stew

[Wojciech Tryc]

Spectacular table and perfect execution. Congratulation Derek

[Derek Cohen]

My deepest thanks for all the kind words to all, especially those who offered opinions since one of the reasons I post to to create discussion. There are just so many ways to do joinery, and so many takes on design. We all benefit from the diversity.

This has been an interesting build (they have to be interesting, otherwise why do it?). A challenging design to reproduce with hand tools. The first time I had attempted mitred dovetails. That was interesting. It came together very satisfactorily in the end. I am in awe of the top - that Jarrah is simply stunning ... far more so in real life where you can see the chatoyance and fiddleback.

A couple of better photos (perspective is everything) ...

https://i.postimg.cc/P5fjt8c5/1a.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/CxvVdxTH/2a.jpg

Thanks again.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Greg Parrish]

That turned out amazing. Thanks for sharing the beautiful, inspirational pictures and process. I’m sure they will love and cherish it.

[Pat Barry]

Beautiful project! You nailed it.

[Graham Haydon]

Top work Derek, I hope you feel very satisfied with a job well done. It was interesting to see how you chose the grain for the best effect, think I really learned something there.

Interesting to note your use of hardwax oil and Brian's experimentation too. I can't recommend it enough. It's a great product and very hard wearing (I use a brand call Fiddes, but I expect they are all pretty similar), I usually buff it with some A4 paper and it comes up great. As you did, keep the coats thin and there's nothing to go wrong.

It was interesting to see you working on a piece that changed how you work at a bench too, different heights etc, away from the often cited small board on a bench.

I'm envious of your nephew, hope he knows what he's got there.

[Derek Cohen]

.. hope he knows what he's got there.

Thanks Graham.

That was an interesting comment. I have thought about this before, and now again.

I do wonder whether anyone other than a woodworker understands what goes into a piece of furniture? Will my nephew understand the complexity of the joinery? Does he even know what a dovetail is? He probably have never heard of Jarrah - he lives in Sydney. Jarrah is not common there. He just pointed it out in a photo and said that he liked it.

He probably would not recognise a shortcut .. if it was there. There were no shortcuts because I would know that they were there.

You are a professional woodworker. You build the best you can. Dp you think that your customers can tell best from second best? Is it about price?

Opinions from others here regarding shortcuts and whether others understand the efforts made?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Greg Parrish]

Derek, I think your sentiment is true whether it’s a fine piece of furniture you e created or something as simple as a cutting board or turned bowl.

I’m a perfectionist and never truly satisfied with my own work. I have certain standards something has to meet before I will even let another person have it. However, most people I’ve made things for would have been happy with it if I’d stopped half way through the project and called it done. In the ikea world we live in I’m not sure anyone other than another wood worker really appreciates anymore the process, the skill and craftsmanship, the time, the attention to detail, etc. very few seem to care about that anymore.

Your table is an heirloom, museum quality piece as far as I’m concerned. I’m hopeful your nephew views and values it the same way.

[Patrick Walsh]

No shortcuts unless I’m on someone else’s clock and they insist. Then it’s not mine to decided.

Otherwise my opinion is shortcuts make you soft, “sooner” or later they become habit. In very short order quality degrades, with the degradation of quality goes pride and sooner or later your letting this and that go and producing garbage.

Who cares is the customer ever understands. It’s not about the customer it’s about me doing what I love. If was only concerned about the bottom line and money I’d be a banker. If only concerned about $$ I would spend my free time making things of wood I’d work more.

Not taking shortcuts imop is the most important aspect of building. Regardless of your skill level if you don’t accept shortcuts sooner or later you will become very skilled. If you accept shortcuts it a guarantee you will always produce sub par work.


Thanks Graham.

That was an interesting comment. I have thought about this before, and now again.

I do wonder whether anyone other than a woodworker understands what goes into a piece of furniture? Will my nephew understand the complexity of the joinery? Does he even know what a dovetail is? He probably have never heard of Jarrah - he lives in Sydney. Jarrah is not common there. He just pointed it out in a photo and said that he liked it.

He probably would not recognise a shortcut .. if it was there. There were no shortcuts because I would know that they were there.

You are a professional woodworker. You build the best you can. Dp you think that your customers can tell best from second best? Is it about price?

Opinions from others here regarding shortcuts and whether others understand the efforts made?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Patrick McCarthy]

Thanks Graham.

That was an interesting comment. I have thought about this before, and now again.

I do wonder whether anyone other than a woodworker understands what goes into a piece of furniture? Will my nephew understand the complexity of the joinery? Does he even know what a dovetail is? He probably have never heard of Jarrah - he lives in Sydney. Jarrah is not common there. He just pointed it out in a photo and said that he liked it.

He probably would not recognise a shortcut .. if it was there. There were no shortcuts because I would know that they were there.

You are a professional woodworker. You build the best you can. Dp you think that your customers can tell best from second best? Is it about price?

Opinions from others here regarding shortcuts and whether others understand the efforts made?

Regards from Perth


Derek

Derek, might i suggest you send him a hotlink to this thread? I can’t think of a better way for your nephew to truly understand how special a gift this project has been. We often look for the provenance of furniture pieces, but one need look no further than this thread to arrive at an intimate understanding of what went into this piece. I think if the roles were reversed, you would certainly like to be able to gain the understanding that could only be gained by reading the journey set forth herein.
And don’t worry about braggadocio;simply tell him “Patrick said you have to read this!”

[Derek Cohen]

Patrick, it is a romantic notion. A gift is just that - from the heart. That is where the value lies. Explaining what effort it took to build is about the same as telling someone what you spent to build it. He understands it is special, just because I built it. He - and others - do not need to look at other criteria to appreciate this.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mark Rainey]

Interesting discussion. So much of the human experience is irrational, or magical. Generosity can be joyful, perhaps it feels better to give than receive. And sometimes our gifts can make others happy, sometimes they miss the mark, and rarely, they cause problems. As woodworkers, we enjoy making hand crafted furniture. Others may or may not share our values. We give freely, but hope they know the love put into the piece. We take that risk whatever the outcome.

[Patrick Walsh]

I’d say what we put it into the work is 100% about us even in the case of a gift...

Ok maybe so the giving might not be about us, or maybe it is that part I say the individual decides. The perfect part imop that’s 100% about us or if I should only speak for myself me...

[Graham Haydon]

Hi Derek

I'll try and respond as best I can, I gave a high resolution response to your piece from my perspective, now watch it unravel :D

I don't think you need to be a woodworker to appreciate something. I'm not a great chef but appreciate it when fed well, and because I know it's hard to bring a number of things together to have a success. These days it's just easy to not notice the details. It doesn't mean we have to be snobs, just means we interact with something unique and try and enjoy it and perhaps ask a question or two.

In terms of a professional approach, it's about finding what is appropriate for a client. I don't think that differs much, if at all from an amateur. The only thing that differs is that a skilled amateur can choose to spend whatever time they have at hand as they don't have to exchange money for the outcome.

"Best" is a hard word and it begins us on the slippery slope. I try to get across as best as I can the details to a client with drawings etc and come up with a solution that is appropriate to all aspects of their requirements.

What is unique about being a serious amateur, such as yourself (and me in my spare time) is it is only my vision. It feels a little punk. I'll do it because I want to, and it makes me feel good and the outcome is the outcome I want. With the recent thread on books I always come to the same conclusion despite the pages of reflection of many talented and gifted woodworkers. Woodworking to a serious level as an amateur is selfish, to do good work I think it has to be. It's easy to add romance but brass tacks to me is it's selfish.

I warned you you I'd slide about and unravel :D. Back to point. I hope he appreciates what he has there.

[James Pallas]

I believe Derek has a handle on this gift. Many people today have no idea about quality furniture pieces. They don’t have to know about it. Derek built a great piece for his nephew. It is even what was requested. His nephew will most likely value that table because it is in the style that he likes but most of all because his uncle built it for him and his bride to be. That is the biggest reward for both the builder and the recipient. I am sure it will garner attention from any of their friends that are woodworkers and not so much from others. That is just the way this building furniture goes. In any case it’s a well planned and executed piece of work.
Jim

[Malcolm McLeod]

Beautiful work. Awesome gift.

Oh, the wife and I are considering renewing our vows ..... you know, just in case you need something to do .....??;)