Need some advice for staircase remodeling

[joe webb]

Hello Stairs Gurus

Like many others, I am pulling out my carpet and replacing w/ wood and need a bit of help. I have no experience with stairs before but have done research on this topic for the past several weeks and got to learn about stairs building code, etc. Few questions on my mind:

1) What type of wood would best match the look of my laminate flooring (picture below)?
2) I plan to paint my risers plain white. Is it recommended to use plywood? Or a cheaper wood such as poplar is preferred? Please let me know the gotcha of plywood. I plan to use the 1/4" plywood to accommodate the curved front of the first 4 steps.
3) what you all think of using cove moulding under the stair nose? I would stain them as the tread.
4) what you all think of using 1/4 round moulding above the tread at the bottom of the riser? I would paint them white
5) I have large landing area, would you recommend using T&G matching flooring?
6) I am buying treads/risers/coves online thus shipping time and cost is quite significant. How much extra part do you usually get? I want to avoid placing a second small order midway during the project. It would delay the project and shipping big items is not economical.
7) Is it a good idea to stain+polyurethane the treads and paint the risers before cutting them? I want to avoid the smell in the house. It's getting cold, thus opening the windows is not desirable.

Also attaching a sketch of the stair case. It is closed by drywall on both sides. The new treads and risers will go above and in front of the existing plywood treads (1") and risers (3/4").

Thanks much

[Tom M King]

Sorry, not an answer to any of your questions, but when adding more treads on top of new ones, plans should include doing whatever is needed to get the rise of ever step to be equal. If something is simply added to the first one, and then on up, rise for the first step will be more than the others. Not only does the rise need to be worked out, but you need to be able to put a straight edge on the whole run of stairs, and it hit every tread on the nose.

I think for those curved treads, one straight edge should hit in the middle, and also at a straight run parallel to the walls as close to the ends as you can check.

[joe webb]

Thanks for pointing that out Tom. The stair rise will be uniform. It was 7.5" back when the carpet was in place. The carpet and the cushion pad underneath together add up to about 1".

The tip w/ the straight edge is great. I learned something new today. Given the risers are in place, it seems the only way for the straight edge to line up would be to tweak the size of the overhang. We will find out if that is feasible. The builder didn't frame the stairs w/ much precision given all imperfection can be hidden by the carpet. Visually I can tell the left side of the tread is wider than its right side, and the rounding isn't centered.

[Chris Fournier]

I've done this for clients where the stringers were Red oak. I tore up everything but the stringers and then retrofit red oak treads and ply core veneer risers. Looked perfect when done.

[Bradley Gray]

If you "tweak" the size of the overhang be sure you add rather than subtract - stairs with too little overhang can cause a descending human to trip.

[Wayne Lomman]

1. You will have to pick something that is available and has similar grain. Colour can be done later
2. Plywood will be fine for the risers. Choose one with a fine grained appearance so that is paints easily
3. Cove moulding under the tread nose looks OK if you need it to cover a gap. Better to fit things neatly and avoid the cove however.
4. 1/4 round at the base of the riser cuts down the toe space. Best to fit neatly and not use this. You would have to make wider treads to compensate which is more expensive. Spend the time to fit things neatly
5. Using matching tongue and groove flooring for the landing is fine
6. If you are buying cut to size, double and triple check every measurement and calculation and then order the right amount of material. If buying in lengths, allow an extra length of each profile so you have spare to cut around defects which are more likely in buying by the length. This decision is partly based on how confident you are in your own skills and accuracy and partly on your budget. If you order close to the right amount, you will be forced to take care or else pay for the consequences.
7. If you can get under the stairs and fix from the back, prefinishing is good. If you are gluing everything in place, prefinishing is good. You will have to do touch up and take a lot of care when fitting but it can be done. 1/4" risers will have to be fixed through the face or glued.

Any reason why you are refacing the risers when they are painted anyway? How about auto body filler on the existing face and then paint? It will be cheaper and less work.

Cheers

[joe webb]

Hi Wayne,

Thanks for taking the time to give so many tips.

1) I only know how oak, cherry, maple, pine, and walnut look like. Based on this small, sample I would say it's oak. Hoping the wood gurus can confirm.
3) Oh okay. I can definitely take my time to fit things tightly. I always thought cove moulding was purely cosmetic to enhance the look. Just like crown moulding on ceilings.
4) same here, I thought it was for better appearance.
7) I need to cut off wall and ceiling to get access to the stringers. There is a small closet under stairs. I would guess touch up should not produce much of odor.

I am refacing because the current risers are ugly looking plywood. They have big knots and lots of irregularities. But the deal breaker is the carpenter didn't cut them accurately. They are not flush to the walls. Some have 1/2" gap filled with some kind of gray color caulking. I thought covering w/ new plywood would be faster and better looking.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Joe, this looks like a BIG project. I would advise you to think very hard about whether you have the skill to undertake it (and I say that as someone who has built several staircases, and wouldn't undertake this project, myself).

1) I would start testing species and finish combinations to find an acceptable 'match' before you do anything further
2) White risers will show scuff marks very easily, so use a good-quality semi-gloss paint to maximize cleanability. Good-quality plywood is preferred.
3) It's only used to hide mistakes in fitment. Your best result will come from meticulously fitting each riser and tread individually.
4) Ditto
5) What other option do you see being available...?
6) If the risers are just plywood, why are you buying them online? It sounds like the only thing you need to buy is pre-made treads (are you sure this is a good idea vs, making them yourself?). As such, I would meticulously plan how you will use the material you order, and only order enough overage to account for any mistakes you make. ie - if you need 12 treads of 35" wide, and the pre-made treads are sold as 36" wide treads, I would order 13 (12 plus one in case you make a mistake). You won't be happy if you're ordering based on linear feet or square feet (ending up with a bunch of 4" long scraps that add up to the width of a tread is no good, here)
7) Either way, make sure to consider how you will affix the treads and risers. Nails? If so, how will you fill the holes? Will it look better if those are finished-in-place? Can you go several days not using the stairs if you finish-in-place?


Finally, as Tom said, you need to make sure the tread height is the same (especially at top and bottom), and this is not as trivial as you think. Make sure to very carefully measure and draw out what the final rise of each tread will be, and make sure it's within the limits prescribed by code.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Now that I look at your picture, again: how are you planning to make the curved treads?

[Richard Wolf]

Like Dan said, this is a difficult project and not for the faint of heart. If the stairs are built as poorly as you describe you would be better off tearing them out and restarting. But that also is not a project for someone with no experience.

You say the carpet took up 1" , that may be the case but a lot depends on you floor treatment which will be on the floor at the bottom and top of staircase. Code says no more than 3/8" difference from any two steps.

Isn't there a stair company near you, it may be cheaper to buy treads from them instead of shipping, treads are heavy.

Cove molding under the treads are a standard detail that should be included, quarter round on the tread/riser joint is not.

Once again, as Dan said, step back and make sure you understand how big a project you are about to undertake, lots of room for f*ckups on something like this.

[Mark Bolton]

On top of all the other good information here I would suggest that if your going to opt for painted risers to not use anything soft. Plywood, and poplar, are dead soft. Risers take a ton of abuse and soft materials will dent, the finish (paint) will break, and you will be miserable with them in short order.

Richard is about the end all be all in the stair building world.. all great information here, but I would strogly take heed to his and Dans cautions.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Richard is about the end all be all in the stair building world..

Asking a stair question and getting a reply from Mr. Wolf is akin to getting tips from Tiger Woods on your golf swing... If he says it's a difficult project, well...

[Paul Girouard]

#1: On matching the distressed fake wood with really wood.
I’d try Red Oak in a #2 or #3 grade, BUT you’d have to buy boards and make your own boards for the landing.
To match the color you’ll just have to make samples to try to make the Oak match in color , and buy crappy grade wood to get the dark streaks , and sort of knotty look that the fake wood has. How you’ll make the area that appear to be “poorly surfaced wood with bandsaw mill marks” left in place I’m not sure?
Maybe it’s only the color you are really after , not the distressed “finish”???

Let’s jump to the landing subject :
You say there’s a landing , but your pencil sketch appears to show winder treads , rather than a one level landing , so I’m confused as to where the landing is???

IF there are winder treads in that “landing area” , I’d make those out of the same #2 or #3 Red Oak


#2: Birch 1/4” plywood could work, but as others have mentioned what you do to one riser and or tread , you have to do to all of them to keep the stair consistent.
I’d possibly remove the old risers and use 3/4” lumber either Poplar , or Hemlock for risers.
On the curved area , to remain consistent , three layers laminated out 1/4” ply might be the best way to do it.


#3: Cove under the tread is surely do-able , and yes they’d normally match the treads.
I’m not sure cove will bend to the curve on the lower steps.

#4: A 1/4 round could be used , and small one.
The issues will be the curved steps. Although IF the cove will bend the 1/4 round will as well.


#5: Maybe this landing area is what I’m seeing as the winder treads ??? Other wise I don’t see a landing.

If there is a landing , it’s possible a hardwood flooring company may sell Red Oak T&G flooring in a #2 or #3 grade , you’d need to check into that.

#6: Are you planning on buying the lower graded stair parts ??


#7: If the stairs in as rough a shape as you say it is in rough framing , and your skill level is as low as you say it it, I’d say finish it after you are done.
Not knowing your skill level , how many hours a week you plan on working on the project , if you are a weekend DIYS guy winter will be over and you’ll be applying your finish in the spring or summer anyway.

This is a big project for a guy who self confessed to having not experience with stairs to take on.

A curved lower stair such as this is generally open on both sides at the base , some times all the way to the top in the middle , you haven’t mentioned the handrail / guard rail system, so I’m wondering about that as well.

Some photo’s of the actual stairs might be helpful in guiding you thru the process .

G-Luck.

Paul

[Mel Fulks]

Sounds like your stairs were built in place. They can be done well like by careful workmen. Buy a few packs of shims to correct the sloppy sawing.

[joe webb]

Thanks Dan. Yes, it does not look easy and that is why I have been spending the last 5-6 weeks reading various forums trying to understand what problems people have been experiencing and see if I am up to the task.

5) the landing is the 4 pie-shaped steps. I could make a big tread for each. That would be expensive and could be hard to fit.
6) I would get 4x8 plywood sheets from HomeDepot and rip into risers. I would only buy risers online (along with the treads) if poplar is a better option for risers. I am ordering treads as separate pieces with a couple of extras.
7) I don't have a bedroom downstairs thus I would prefer to make this quick once I start glueing the treads. That is why I plan on painting and staining before installation. Reading the other forum threads, it seems using PL adhesive with 16GA brad nails is the way to go. Hiding the brad nail should be a quick affair.

Regarding the curved treads, for each, I would make a template first using 1/2" plywood, cut the tread close to the template with a jigsaw, use a router flush bit to transfer the template to the tread, and then bullnose it with a 1/4 round bit. I would order 15" wide S4S treads. This is the part I feel is the most tricky because they are not standard shapes and sizes. The top part of the staircase is probably the easier given we have standard 42" wide closed treads on both sides. The 4 pie-shaped treads are also quite standard w/ flooring and a landing bullnose tread.

The stair rise with new tread installed should be roughly 7.5" and within the 3/8" wiggle room. I got lucky here for once :-)

Can you elaborate which part of this project looks the most difficult for you?

[joe webb]

Like Dan said, this is a difficult project and not for the faint of heart. If the stairs are built as poorly as you describe you would be better off tearing them out and restarting. But that also is not a project for someone with no experience.

You say the carpet took up 1" , that may be the case but a lot depends on you floor treatment which will be on the floor at the bottom and top of staircase. Code says no more than 3/8" difference from any two steps.

Isn't there a stair company near you, it may be cheaper to buy treads from them instead of shipping, treads are heavy.

Cove molding under the treads are a standard detail that should be included, quarter round on the tread/riser joint is not.

Once again, as Dan said, step back and make sure you understand how big a project you are about to undertake, lots of room for f*ckups on something like this.

Glad to see you on my thread Richard. I've been browsing this forum for the past 5 days and saw you helped lots of people here.

I contacted several local stores and, because of the custom pieces I need for the curved steps, they would send the material to the mills to make custom pieces. All the quotes I got here is 4X the cost of online. Shipping all this stuff is about $250. Not too bad. It's $1700 vs $7000. I guess I have room to buy a lot of extras :-)

Could you please explain why I need to tear out the existing risers and treads? Giving they will be covered, wouldn't that be a non-issue?

I read lots of threads about the risers differential and I think I am more lucky than most. I have tiles on the first floor and laminate planks on the second floor. They are both thinner than the new 1" treads. There is definitely some variation for the top and bottom riser but they are within 3/8". The builder must have accounted for that.

My understanding is usually the bottom riser can be taller and the top riser can be shorter than required. Then we need to take out the few adjacent treads and spread that delta over them. Given we take out 1" thick tread, we can shim the stringers.

Am I on the right track? which part would you say is the most daunting?

Thanks much

[Richard Wolf]

First, thanks to Dan and Mark for the compliments. Joe, where do you live? Location would help, maybe I have a contact that could get you materials, moral support or even help if you need it.

[Richard Wolf]

We were typing at the same time. Your staircase is built by a framer not a stairman. The stringers should be mortised out so the treads and riser fit tightly with wedges. Your risers and treads are most likely on rough cut stringers which may end up with a lot of shimming.

The problem with building on top of your treads, you have to cut the nosing off each tread, it's doable, just something you need to know. Not being able to get behind the stair will be a problem with getting a good tight fit. The risers should be screwed into each tread.

To save money on each of the curved treads, if you plan correctly, cut the back curve off first and then glue it to the front and cut the front. You can save a lot of waste that way.

The most daunting part will be fitting pieces together with a good joint. It's easy to say,"It's got to be better than what's there now, except now you are the one to blame, not the builder. Avoiding a noisy staircase is also going to be a considerstion.

[joe webb]

First, thanks to Dan and Mark for the compliments. Joe, where do you live? Location would help, maybe I have a contact that could get you materials, moral support or even help if you need it.

Thanks Richard. I live in San Jose, North California. Everything is so expensive here especially if labor is involved.

[joe webb]

On top of all the other good information here I would suggest that if your going to opt for painted risers to not use anything soft. Plywood, and poplar, are dead soft. Risers take a ton of abuse and soft materials will dent, the finish (paint) will break, and you will be miserable with them in short order.

Richard is about the end all be all in the stair building world.. all great information here, but I would strogly take heed to his and Dans cautions.

Thanks Mark. What kind of wood would you recommend? My wife wants me to put mosaic tiles on the risers, but I am concerned of the beating and could need more TLC in the long term. Although I really like the look of tiled risers. But it's quite more work. Something like this.

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/89/a7/2b/89a72bcdbc2a33f88d2a00334e9e390d.jpg

[Ole Anderson]

Not even going to comment on the curved pieces, but for the straight treads you need a tread gauge. I made one. Here I helped my son remove the carpet and replace it with stranded bamboo, both risers and treads. We had to pull the old fir treads to rip off the nose to fit the standard nose piece provided with the bamboo. Old fashioned nail puller, old tread back in with glue and screws. Had to hand nail the bamboo, no room for the floor nailer and it was too hard for the 18 ga brad gun.

Edit: You can see we just used the same stuff as the main floor. Have you thought of just using your laminate right over your existing treads? No issue matching the floor then. Try a tread or two to see how it goes, nothing to loose. Coming up with the nose could be an issue depending on what trim they offer for your floor.

[joe webb]

We were typing at the same time. Your staircase is built by a framer not a stairman. The stringers should be mortised out so the treads and riser fit tightly with wedges. Your risers and treads are most likely on rough cut stringers which may end up with a lot of shimming.

This is part of the original construction of the house. What does "stringers should be mortised out so the treads and riser fit tightly with wedges" means? Sorry, newbie here :-(
My thinking was if it can hold the current stairs properly, putting new tread on top should be okay.


The problem with building on top of your treads, you have to cut the nosing off each tread, it's doable, just something you need to know. Not being able to get behind the stair will be a problem with getting a good tight fit. The risers should be screwed into each tread.

yes, I would cut the overhang of the existing tread first and cover it w/ the new riser. Does "risers should be screwed into each tread" means the riser is installed behind the tread (and not on top of it) and they both get glued to the current structure at once? If we don't have the tight fit, is that why we have the 1/4 round moulding?


To save money on each of the curved treads, if you plan correctly, cut the back curve off first and then glue it to the front and cut the front. You can save a lot of waste that way.

Given I have walls on both side, cutting in place would be hard. Routing the bullnose all the way to the walls won't be possible.


The most daunting part will be fitting pieces together with a good joint. It's easy to say,"It's got to be better than what's there now, except now you are the one to blame, not the builder. Avoiding a noisy staircase is also going to be a considerstion.

Right now the staircase is not squeeky, but things are nailed together. I am plan on putting screws to further attach the current risers and treads to the stringer. Is there anything else I can do to prep the area before installing the new treads?

Are you referring to the joint between the tread and the bottom of the riser or something else? The top of the riser is covered by the cove moulding thus should be easy to fit right?

Thanks a lot for bringing these things out. I rather learn all this stuff now.

Joey

[Ole Anderson]

Hey, by the way Joe, welcome to the Creek!!!

[joe webb]

Not even going to comment on the curved pieces, but for the straight treads you need a tread gauge. I made one. Here I helped my son remove the carpet and replace it with stranded bamboo, both risers and treads. We had to pull the old fir treads to rip off the nose to fit the standard nose piece provided with the bamboo. Old fashioned nail puller, old tread back in with glue and screws. Had to hand nail the bamboo, no room for the floor nailer and it was too hard for the 18 ga brad gun.

Thanks Ole. I also removed my carpet and cleaned up gazillion of staples. Then sanded off all the white patches coming from the drywall work. I plan to cut off the overhang in place though.

I saw those home-made tread template. Great idea. But then I found a $20 one from HomeDepot :-)
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Stairtek-5-in-x-12-in-Sturdy-Plastic-Tread-Template-STRTO-000-HD00S/300906126

[joe webb]

Hey, by the way Joe, welcome to the Creek!!!

Thanks Ole. Glad to find this great forum. I got lots of help on other forums on woodworking in general, but when it comes to stairs, Creek has much more content.

[joe webb]

#1: On matching the distressed fake wood with really wood.
I’d try Red Oak in a #2 or #3 grade, BUT you’d have to buy boards and make your own boards for the landing.
To match the color you’ll just have to make samples to try to make the Oak match in color , and buy crappy grade wood to get the dark streaks , and sort of knotty look that the fake wood has. How you’ll make the area that appear to be “poorly surfaced wood with bandsaw mill marks” left in place I’m not sure?
Maybe it’s only the color you are really after , not the distressed “finish”???

Let’s jump to the landing subject :
You say there’s a landing , but your pencil sketch appears to show winder treads , rather than a one level landing , so I’m confused as to where the landing is???

IF there are winder treads in that “landing area” , I’d make those out of the same #2 or #3 Red Oak

Thanks for the long detailed reply Paul. I am just trying to find a type of wood that shows a similar pattern to avoid too much visual contrast. I will probably stain w/ the same brownish tone but darker. Trying to have an exact match would be lots of work if not unrealistic.

Sorry, what I called the landing is the area formed by the 4 pie-shaped treads. That area is 116x65", thus rather big steps. I plan to cover them with flooring.


#2: Birch 1/4” plywood could work, but as others have mentioned what you do to one riser and or tread , you have to do to all of them to keep the stair consistent.
I’d possibly remove the old risers and use 3/4” lumber either Poplar , or Hemlock for risers.
On the curved area , to remain consistent , three layers laminated out 1/4” ply might be the best way to do it.

Because of that "landing" area, I have some flexibility for changing the riser thickness when transitioning in/out of that area. The pie-shaped treads don't have to follow the same tread depth as the others.

What is the benefit of replacing the risers?


#3: Cove under the tread is surely do-able , and yes they’d normally match the treads.
I’m not sure cove will bend to the curve on the lower steps.

#4: A 1/4 round could be used , and small one.
The issues will be the curved steps. Although IF the cove will bend the 1/4 round will as well.

I bought a 11/16x11/16" red oak cove moulding from home depot and was able to bend it. I got a tip from woodworking forums that we bend wood by submerging in water.
But the curve is not very pronounced though. The step is 42" wide and the front in the middle sticks out 1.5" from the side.

Given the 1/4 round would be painted white, I can even use MDF.


#5: Maybe this landing area is what I’m seeing as the winder treads ??? Other wise I don’t see a landing.

If there is a landing , it’s possible a hardwood flooring company may sell Red Oak T&G flooring in a #2 or #3 grade , you’d need to check into that.

#6: Are you planning on buying the lower graded stair parts ??

Yes, I am buying the treads and flooring from the same mill.
And I was not aware there is a lower grade. They offer a standard and rustic look for each wood type, but no mention of grade. Only says matching NWFA specs.
http://www.hardwoodstairtreads.com/white_oak_hardwood_stair_treads.html


#7: If the stairs in as rough a shape as you say it is in rough framing , and your skill level is as low as you say it it, I’d say finish it after you are done.
Not knowing your skill level , how many hours a week you plan on working on the project , if you are a weekend DIYS guy winter will be over and you’ll be applying your finish in the spring or summer anyway.

This is a big project for a guy who self confessed to having not experience with stairs to take on.

A curved lower stair such as this is generally open on both sides at the base , some times all the way to the top in the middle , you haven’t mentioned the handrail / guard rail system, so I’m wondering about that as well.

Some photo’s of the actual stairs might be helpful in guiding you thru the process .

G-Luck.

Paul

I have hand rail on one side and plan to sand and stain it in place. It curves around with the stairs and looks tricky to take it off.

Correct, I am more of a weekend DIYer and I work slow to make sure the results look good. It would bother me to look every day at a sloppy job. I tend to plan excessively before the project starts and measure 4 times before I cut ;-)

I've been renovating my house section by section over the years and learning along. So far so good. Given I have time, I can do lots of details that it would be prohibitively expensive to ask from a contractor.

[Attached few pictures...the middle picture is taken from the first floor. Not sure why it is showing upside down]

[Paul Girouard]

Actually the stairs don’t look as bad as your description.

The OSB existing treads and risers could very well work if left in place.
You can rout off the nosing with a flush trimmer , and finish the cuts that where the router runs into the wall with a jig saw , or sawsall.

On the winders , they’d look better done as treads rather than nosings with flooring laid behind them.
As they are treads , not landings.
So I’d disagree that you have flexibility with differing riser heights.

Seeing you live in the house , most likely this stair won’t get inspected , so possibly that can , can be kicked down the road until such time the house changes hands.


The standard or Rustic look may be how stair parts are graded.

If the OSB is sound , which it appears to be from the photo’s , and there’s no squeaks , you should be fine.

[joe webb]

Thanks Paul. To clarify, I was referring to riser thickness (not height). For example, I can use 3/4" risers on the winder tread, but 1/4" riser on the curved tread just below it.

For sure we want the height to be as uniform as possible. If I put down 1" thick treads on top of the existing structure, all risers will be 7.5" except the top riser at 7 1/4". That is because my flooring is 5/8 with a 3mm liner.

Currently, the treads are 1" plywood, the winder is 3/4" plywood, the straight risers are 3/4" plywood, and the curved risers are 1/2" OSB (I guess to help it bends). No squeaking thus far, but I plan to drive few screws into the stringers to make sure things stay tight.

One strange thing is, the top straight section of the staircase, the 9 treads are 42x12' instead of being 11.5" depth. I can use 11.5" treads, but then overhang will be only 3/4" thus no space for the cove moulding.

[Tom M King]

The "walk line" (used to be called the "line of going") looks a bit strange to me on those winders. I would probably tear the whole thing out, and redo. When looking up what a "walk line" is, also look up Dancing Stairs. There might be something on dancing stairs now, but I now it was gone into in great detail in old books. I built one set of dancing stairs in a stairwell that was designed too small for a regular staircase, and they surprised everyone, including me, with how naturally comfortable they walked.

I did a google search, but had trouble finding any useful information on "dancing stairs", but did find this. The pivot point of the radius of each tread nose is a different point, but there is a formula for it. I think the design I used was in a 19th Century book, or reprint of. That was in 1980, so I don't remember all the details. They looked more like the right hand drawing here:
https://books.google.com/books?id=SYw3AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA201&lpg=PA201&dq=dancing+stairs+drawing&source=bl&ots=u1BQGMkct-&sig=pamx9Fh0ZLbcgeNbP0RjeAw9MHk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiovJ_mwbneAhUCj1kKHaSKA2oQ6AEwGnoECAcQA Q#v=onepage&q=dancing%20stairs%20drawing&f=false

[Paul Girouard]

Could the riser be screwed to the back side of the tread on the top steps? You’d have to pre-fit the pieces and then attach them in to the “L” shape , which would make them harder to get back in place.


Seeing you won’t have access to the back side of the treads and risers they both have to be fastened in place thru there faces, either glued and nailed , or glued , screwed , and plugged.

Which really leads to finishing all of it place after it’s installed.

[joe webb]

The "walk line" (used to be called the "line of going") looks a bit strange to me on those winders. I would probably tear the whole thing out, and redo. When looking up what a "walk line" is, also look up Dancing Stairs. There might be something on dancing stairs now, but I now it was gone into in great detail in old books. I built one set of dancing stairs in a stairwell that was designed too small for a regular staircase, and they surprised everyone, including me, with how naturally comfortable they walked.

I did a google search, but had trouble finding any useful information on "dancing stairs", but did find this. The pivot point of the radius of each tread nose is a different point, but there is a formula for it. I think the design I used was in a 19th Century book, or reprint of. That was in 1980, so I don't remember all the details. They looked more like the right hand drawing here:
https://books.google.com/books?id=SYw3AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA201&lpg=PA201&dq=dancing+stairs+drawing&source=bl&ots=u1BQGMkct-&sig=pamx9Fh0ZLbcgeNbP0RjeAw9MHk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiovJ_mwbneAhUCj1kKHaSKA2oQ6AEwGnoECAcQA Q#v=onepage&q=dancing%20stairs%20drawing&f=false


I agree with you Tom. When walking pass the winders, the optimal for me is about 1.5ft from the inside wall. My wife and kids prefer to stay on the wider side and take 2 steps on each winder.

I would much prefer a flat rectangular landing, but then we need more steps on each side of it and the length of the staircase doesn't permit. Removing it would be lots of work and headache. We got used to it anyway.

[Ole Anderson]

Not sure you saw my edit on post #21: Have you thought of just using your laminate right over your existing treads? No issue matching the floor then. That is what we did. Try a tread or two to see how it goes, nothing to loose, you probably have scraps left from your floor project. Coming up with the nose could be an issue depending on what trim they offer for your floor.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Asking a stair question and getting a reply from Mr. Wolf is akin to getting tips from Tiger Woods on your golf swing... If he says it's a difficult project, well...


I agree, Tom King knows what he's talking about.

I'm a carpenter, and I like building stairs for the challenge. If you can plan it out before you start, most woodworkers have the skills it takes. Several things I'd add, if a client asked me to the stairs to the barnwood vinyl floor, I'd suggest that it's not possible to match real wood to "fantasy" wood through the use of finishes on the treads, as it'll wear off quickly and look terrible. I'd suggest a complimentary wood that can be oiled back to new color for easy touch ups. I always start with oak as a suggestion because it's cheap and tough, and go from there. Premade treads are easy to cut down, and readily available in several species. I'd avoid trim at the tread/riser junction, it looks like an amatuer move. Careful with cove under the tread, depending on bullnose dimensions, it's common to end up not having room for a cove if you are diligently following code. It's also a bit easier to catch a toe with that cove, in my opinion, but it can look nice in some instances. Have fun!

[joe webb]

Not sure you saw my edit on post #21: Have you thought of just using your laminate right over your existing treads? No issue matching the floor then. That is what we did. Try a tread or two to see how it goes, nothing to loose, you probably have scraps left from your floor project. Coming up with the nose could be an issue depending on what trim they offer for your floor.

Thanks Ole. Using the flooring would be my first choice. Perfect match for the look and easy to purchase the parts locally.

But the problem is the curved treads because they only sell straight landing tread nose. That's why I now have to venture down the path of making my own treads. Learning a lot of new things though and sounds like a fun and challenging project to do.

[joe webb]

Does anybody have good/bad experience to share about tiling risers with small mosaic tiles?

I have done several tiles projects so this would be an easy one. But more importantly, my wife is pushing for something like this and I need to come up some good reasons if I go another way :-)

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/89/a7/2b/89a72bcdbc2a33f88d2a00334e9e390d.jpg

[Mel Fulks]

We've been using the word "cove" ,but the stair guys usually say "scotia" which is not as deep . And it's taller than the depth. And the tread nosings don't go to tangent. Most of the nosings and scotias together are just 1 and 1/8.

[Tom M King]

The tile would cut the number of wooden pieces, that have to be fitted perfectly on each end, in half. If it matches the rest of the house, and the Wife likes it, there's your answer.

I like housed stringers, but sometimes, when redoing old staircases, they're more trouble than they're worth. With a homemade jig, I mark the new treads with a sharp no. 4 pencil, and cut with a 10 pt. handsaw. The goal is to fit off the saw, so careful marking, followed by careful sawing is required. You can't cut any one piece a hair long, and force it in. It will most likely open up something below it. I don't have a picture of any treads I've done like this, but do have a picture stored here of some siding fitted off the saw, like I'm talking about.

[Keith Mathewson]

From your pictures there are a few things of concern. I would encourage you to go back and give more consideration to Richard's remarks. Removing the extisting would be preferred but perhaps not realistic given that you are living in the house during this.

Something you may wish to consider is the arrangement of the winders. Unfortunately as Richard has pointed out this stair was built by a framer and not a stair company which has led to some design choices which could have been handled better. Attached are a couple of pictures showing a more elegant way to handle this arrangement. Longepe's (the one in french) design is nicer but considerably more involved and not an option here, but was likely the half forgotten impulse of the person who designed it. Mannes shows one that is simpler and more common. You are very restricted given what you have but there is some room for minor change. Your tread depth at walk-line cannot be altered much but you can change tread depth at outside stringer which can to some degree do away with the jarring stringer transitions and introduce some flow to the outside stringer.

One method of fitting curved stringers is similar in concept to the Collin's jig for straight treads. Take appropriate squares of 1/4" MDF and scribe to fit both and inside and outside stringer. Take another piece of MDF large enough to overlap both scribed pieces and draw index marks. Remove all three pieces and reassemble on tread to be fitted and draw cut lines

[Bill Space]

Hi,

I can not offer any advice as far as the details of the work you wish to accomplish.

But I do know that there is a difference between the perfect job that we often wish to accomplish, and what is good enough.

Granted, ripping the whole works out and replacing it with the perfection of the craftsman would be the ideal.

But I would guess you can do it good enough that 99% of those who visit your home will never see the difference, without ripping everything out and starting over.

I think you need to find a balance between perfection and good enough that suits you personally.

Keeping in mind all the good advice given above in this thread...

Bill

[Jim Dwight]

If the rise per step is consistent now, it will not be if you add treads on top of the existing treads. The bottom step will increase by the thickness of the tread you add. If it is 1 inch think, your first step will be 1 inch taller than it is now. The top step will be one inch less. By code, your rise per step is supposed to be within 3/8 inch for all the steps including the top and bottom. So you won't meet code. It's your house, you can decide.

I did one staircase somewhat like you are thinking. I put 3/8 oak flooring over the softwood treads. I removed the nosing piece so it was flush with the riser and then made 1 inch think nosing pieces out of oak. I filled and painted the existing plywood risers. I had to use a cove moulding to hide the joint of the nosing piece to the riser. The nosing piece was secured to the softwood tread with long finish nails and construction adhesive. I did every other tread so we could still use the stairs. We liked the look and the house sold easily so buyers did too. If you want to overlay your existing treads, I would do something like this before I did 1 inch treads on top of the existing treads. It keeps your rise per stop at least very close to in code.

More recently, I tore out a staircase and rebuilt it. The riser per step varied by 2 inches. There were two giant rise steps, over 10 inches and about 11 inches. Then some winder stairs then a straight run with 8 inch rise. 7 3/4 is the max you can have per code so there was not one compliant step in the staircase. Whoever built it (I think it was the previous homeowner) made each tread 13 inches wide by gluing and nailing flooring to the back of each tread. It was all stained up and finished decently so it wasn't obvious until I tore it out. That huge run let me put in enough treads without the winders to get the rise down to about 7 1/8 (for all the steps). I had to cut my own new stringers - I used 3 - and get all new treads. I built a coat closet under them too. It was a pretty big job. I build furniture when I'm not working on the house so I had the tools and related experience. I bought oak treads at the lumber yard for about $50 each. My risers are 3/4 softwood and have a dado for the back of the tread below them. They are glued and nailed into the stringers. The treads are glued to the stringers and I used a few trim head screws if I needed to pull the tread into the stringer. The screw holes are filled with wax crayon after the treads were finished.

Even more recently I refinished an existing staircase in another part of my current house. The rise per step met code. It had extra shoe molding on each step to hide the gap. The treads were stained oak and the skirt board and risers were clear finish (and old) pine. The gaps were not always bad but some where. Thus the moulding. But with painted risers and skirt boards, you can hide a gap up to one eighth or a little more with caulk. I use Duo sil ( a urathane caulk). It shrinks less, sticks better and takes paint fine. So I sanded the treads, refinished them with poly, then painted the skirts and risers. A lot less work.

My first choice for your stairs would be to remove all the existing treads, possibly every other step so you can continue to use it. But if you don't want to do that, covering with thin flooring is better than overlaying normal 1 inch treads (to keep the rise more even).

[joe webb]

Thanks Keith. The round stairs look really nice. I wish it was framed as such. I also like the second one on the 3rd image. But I guess for track homes, the builders just go for functional and easy to build.

But rebuilding the winders would make this a much bigger project and not suitable for a novice. Given the walk line, while not optimal, is just a nuisance at this point. It's too much extra work and cost for little benefit.

Although I still don't understand Richard's point about the framer vs stairman. Given I don't mind the current shape, is there a problem to lay new treads and flooring on top of the existing structure?

[joe webb]

Thanks for sharing your experience Jim. My first preference would be using flooring to match the look on the second floor. The reason why I can't use it is because of the 4 bottom treads that are curved. My flooring only offer a straight stair nose. That is why I have to make custom shaped tread out of S4S treads.

But I am lucky with the top and bottom riser. The bottom riser is currently shorter, thus w/ the new tread on top, it still matches the other risers. The top riser is just 1/4" shorter than others.

[joe webb]

The tile would cut the number of wooden pieces, that have to be fitted perfectly on each end, in half. If it matches the rest of the house, and the Wife likes it, there's your answer.

I like housed stringers, but sometimes, when redoing old staircases, they're more trouble than they're worth. With a homemade jig, I mark the new treads with a sharp no. 4 pencil, and cut with a 10 pt. handsaw. The goal is to fit off the saw, so careful marking, followed by careful sawing is required. You can't cut any one piece a hair long, and force it in. It will most likely open up something below it. I don't have a picture of any treads I've done like this, but do have a picture stored here of some siding fitted off the saw, like I'm talking about.

At first, I didn't think it would be hard to fit risers and treads. It seemed we just have to measure and cut accurately and just glue them to the existing structure. But it seems that is not good enough.

Initially, although we like the look, I was concerned tiles might fall out if we hit the risers and grout lines might crack. It also a takes longer to install given we need to let the thinset and grout dry. But it avoids all the fitting mentioned in this thread, so it might be simpler after all. Now we are down to just cutting the treads precisely.

[joe webb]

Is this the right way to put tiles on the risers? I would put the tiles behind the tread. It might not touch the old tread depending on the size of the mosaic. Put caulking at the top/bottom/left/right of the tiles.

[Richard Wolf]

Ok, let me start over with this. First to clarify, if a stairman built the staircase, it is built as a separate entity and installed as a finished unit. The stringers are mortised or routed out to except the treads and risers which are held in with wedges, glue and screws. The stairs should be square, straight and level. They are solid with glue blocks used throughout. If a framer builds them, they cut rough stringers under the stairs and build everything on top of them. The stringers that show on the sides are only cosmetic and probably don't add any structure to the stairs. The riser are probably not screwed into the back of the treads. The framer knows that carpet will cover a lot of misfits and hings may not be square or fit well.

So that is that and if you think your stairs are fine, great, use them because that approach will make your project more doable for you. Cut the nosing off like you said, fit you treads carefully. You can cover you winders with solid wood or flooring, both will look fine if you match the flooring to the treads and sand the flooring before finishing. Tiling the risers will look nice, I think they have a grout that is more flexible than standard, that would help. I think you really need to think about the first step/last step situation and how that will play out.

I didn't come here to try and discourage you for doing this project, only to make you aware of some of the things you may face. Take your time, try to plan ahead.

[joe webb]

Thanks Richard. My stairs are done by framers. I can clearly see 3 rows of nails on each tread and riser. The white stringers on the side are just decorative mouldings. I think I am now clear w/ the installation method.

Does finish mean putty nail holes, sanding, stain, and polyurethane? I often hear "finish in place". Why is that better than finish before installing? Then just do the wood filler afterwards. I prefer doing as much work as possible in the garage. Especially the all the dusty and stinky work.

[Richard Wolf]

I always liked to finish the parts before install if the finish was my responsibility, which wasn't very often. It wasn't a profitable part of mt business.

[joe webb]

Thank you everyone for your input and encouragement. I will update this thread when my treads arrive in a 3-4 weeks. I will likely have move questions when work starts.

[joe webb]

Alright, my treads and flooring just arrived few days ago and I am pretty excited to get started. Next, I will be staining and finishing them before cutting and installing.

A quick question on installing treads. My staircase currently has a skirt attached to the drywall (on both sides). I realize that given I am putting the new oak tread on top of the existing plywood tread, the skirt will appear shorter. Furthermore, the skirt will be butting against the new treads instead of sitting on top of them. Ideally, I should remove that skirt but in my case, it is quite tricky as it curves 180 degrees and I rather not mess with it.

Question: Do I cut the tread to fit tightly again both skirts or need to give some room for expansion? Given it is just 42" wide, I figure there shouldn't be much expansion.

Thanks much

[Richard Wolf]

Cut the treads to fit as tightly as possible. The treads will not expand length wise. You really should use a tool like this or a similar cheaper version; https://www.amazon.com/DNB-Tools-PL200-Stair-Wizard/dp/B0000224Q2/ref=asc_df_B0000224Q2/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309966859164&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17369910675673053750&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9009900&hvtargid=pla-437118750718&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=61331272683&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=309966859164&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17369910675673053750&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9009900&hvtargid=pla-437118750718

I don't think I would worry to much about the revel of the stringer, If it ends up looking to short, put some base cap molding on top of it.

[joe webb]

Thanks Richard. I made a similar stairs tool w/ a long piece of plywood and 2 trapezoidal pieces on both ends :)

Now, regarding the depth of the treads, some are 11 3/4 and some are 12" thus I ordered 12 1/4 treads to be on the safe side.
Is it a bad idea to cut treads with a circular saw and a straight edge? Do I need a table saw? I don't have one but can rent it if the circular isn't a reliable way to cut.

[Phillip Mitchell]

I might consider a track saw as a second option if I didn't have the option of a table saw, but I would do what it took to make sure I had a table saw for a job like this.

Setting up your treads at some sort of cut station, measuring and marking, clamping on the straight edge with an offset for the circular saw base plate...eh, it can be done, but it's inefficient, slower, more room for error, aggravating to deal with that much clamping when there are other options.

Just my opinion, but I do this for a living and have a low tolerance for inefficiency and usually do what it takes to have the right tools for the job available.

[joe webb]

I think you really need to think about the first step/last step situation and how that will play out.

That first step is 3/8" higher than the others if I don't remove the plywood tread. While that is within the code, it bothers me a bit. Given it wasn't much work to pry out the plywood tread, I am gonna split that 3/8 over the 2 two risers. Without that first plywood tread, I get back 1" to work with. That means I need to raise the stringer by 13/16 (1 - 3/8/2). Is this the right way to raise it? Basically just sister the stringer and glue the new tread to that 2x4

Thanks much

399533

[Richard Wolf]

Well a table saw is choice #1, but a circular and straight edge will work. If you go that route, here are some tips; new blade, tape the cut line, the circular saw is cutting on the up rotation, the tape will stop chipping. Set the blade angle at 1* for a slight backcut. This will insure a tight joint between the tread and the riser. While speed is of the most importance to stair professionals, it is your worse enemy. Think about everything you are doing and take your time. When I'm working, my mind is always one and two things ahead of what I'm doing, and it is important to be thinking about how things will effect things down the road. You should not be worried about speed. Someone should always be here to answer any questions that come up. Good luck.

Yes that sistering looks fine.

[Joe Hendershott]

Cut the treads to fit as tightly as possible. The treads will not expand length wise. You really should use a tool like this or a similar cheaper version; https://www.amazon.com/DNB-Tools-PL200-Stair-Wizard/dp/B0000224Q2/ref=asc_df_B0000224Q2/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309966859164&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17369910675673053750&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9009900&hvtargid=pla-437118750718&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=61331272683&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=309966859164&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17369910675673053750&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9009900&hvtargid=pla-437118750718

I don't think I would worry to much about the revel of the stringer, If it ends up looking to short, put some base cap molding on top of it.

That is a nice looking tool Richard. I'm about to put in about 14 treads and can really see the benefit but doubt I would use it again. Would this be the one to get if I had some hope of reselling it after I am done?

[Richard Wolf]

I think there is a small market for reselling stair tools. I could sell you mine for $50 plus shipping, It's in very good shape, and has not been abused. Being retired, I have no use for it any more.

[Ole Anderson]

Just about ready to install 13 retrofit stair treads on top of the rough 1.5" treads at my son's new house. Plan on using my Grizz track saw after scribing the cuts with my home made tread gage. A SCMS with a laser would be nice, but I don't have one.

[joe webb]

Well a table saw is choice #1, but a circular and straight edge will work. If you go that route, here are some tips; new blade, tape the cut line, the circular saw is cutting on the up rotation, the tape will stop chipping. Set the blade angle at 1* for a slight backcut. This will insure a tight joint between the tread and the riser. While speed is of the most importance to stair professionals, it is your worse enemy. Think about everything you are doing and take your time. When I'm working, my mind is always one and two things ahead of what I'm doing, and it is important to be thinking about how things will effect things down the road. You should not be worried about speed. Someone should always be here to answer any questions that come up. Good luck.

Yes that sistering looks fine.


Thanks Richard. Given the circular saw is cutting on the upswing, I thought people flip the piece face down then cut. Is that not recommended given the stair template tool becomes confusing when tracing on the bottom face? That said, I feel inclined to use my router w/ the pattern bit (just like how I would cut the curved treads) or w/ my straight jig.

On another topic, what is the best way to make tread templates? A number of pieces have curved sides, curved front/back or both. Typically how close the tread must be to the side moulding for a professional look? Is 1/8" adequate? I was thinking of using butcher paper or cardboard to make the template, then trace it to a 1/4" plywood, cut and sand to get the best fit. And use the plywood as a template for a cut w/ the router.

I've been scribing along the walls w/ this hacked-jig, but it's fairly time-consuming and for treads w/ 2 adjacent curved sides (such as the bottom-most step), I haven't been able to get a good fit yet. Pictures or the curves attached.

[Richard Wolf]

When ever I have had to scribe two adjacent sides, I do both ends independently and than join both pieces with a middle piece and hot glue. You will have to be very close with the fit. 1/8" seems like a big space that will be noticeable even when caulked.

I would rather not cut treads from the bottom, it does get confusing, and I always feel like I'm not cutting on the important side. Do what ever you have to so you are cutting on top, new blade, tape on the cut line.

[Tom M King]

If I ever had to cut treads to go inside stringers, I always used a 10 point hand saw, but I can sharpen one. You can't cut one a hair long, and force it in, or it will open up the last one. I don't have a picture of treads, but here is one of the way I put up siding that is already stored here. Every piece needs to fit perfectly, but still be able to move it ever so slightly, so it doesn't push anything out of place.

I mark siding with a preacher, but threads have to be done with a stair gauge. The couple of times I ever used one, it was a homemade one, but for fifty bucks, I'd buy Richards.

edited to add: I mark with a very sharp no.4 pencil, and since the line is outside the gauge, just barely take the line.

[joe webb]

Thanks Richard. What material do you use for making template? Speaking about blade, I understand we need to use a fine tooth blade. The minimum being 40-tooth for 7 1/4", 60-tooth for 10" and 80-tooth for 12". Is that correct?

I have 1" white-oak treads.

[joe webb]

Thanks for the tips Tom. I wouldn't trust myself w/ a handsaw to make a straight cut. Probably need a lot of practice to make a decent cut. A power tool would most likely give better results.

For the first few treads, I will go easy and conservative. I might cut it a bit larger and adjust them slowly. Sanding down if required. Definitely will not force it in.

By the way, what is a preacher? A pen with a very sharp/pointy metal tip? I saw on YouTube many people using that pen and was wondering what is the benefit over a pencil.

[Richard Wolf]

Tom- I've been using a preacher for years for marking cuts, on stair stringers, I just never knew it had a name. I kind of self invented it out of necessity. I had to look it up on "woodtalk" to see what you meant.

Joe- I use 1/4" ply for templates. Any new blade that is sharp is most important. Sometime more teeth start clogging up.

[Benjimin Young]

Hi Joe, I went down a similar path many years back to recap my old stairs. There was a lot of good advise from this forum but I have to single out one individual who is obviously a master at stairs, Richard Wolfe. I highly recommend picking his brain some more if you have the opportunity.

For my experience, only based on one project n my house with advise from Richard.
I custom made the tread caps in my shop from Ash and finished them with multiple coats of varathane prior to installation
I used painted 1/4" veneer particle-coor to cap the stringer and risers which was a mistake (should have listen to Richard and used thicker); the result was I had to do a lot more scribing to get the risers to fit nicely to the stringers.
I had a few corner steps similar to your 6,7,8 and they were a lot of work, had to build a special cross cut sled to cut on table saw. I also cut and pre-fitted templates from 1/4 Masonite first
I also had to cut off the old tread overhang, a bot of a job
In the end, a lot of work, but a labor of love.

Good luck and have fun, Ben

[Benjimin Young]

One other comment. For what it is worth, see my thread "Benjimin Young Stair resurfacing project –... (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?101866-Stair-resurfacing-project-%96-looking-for-advise-suggestions&p=1022470&highlight=Benjimin#post1022470) 01-17-2009, 8:31 AM" There might be something in there that will help.
https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?101866-Stair-resurfacing-project-%96-looking-for-advise-suggestions&highlight=benjimin

[joe webb]

Thanks for the link Ben. It does look like your stairs have the same challenges like rounded treads, triangular winder steps, etc. Although you did a whole lot more than I am planning to. I purchased premade open-treads and using flooring for the bigger winders. Planing, gluing, cutting, fitting those large steps looked too daunting to me.

I love the storybook at the end of the thread. Very nice looking staircase. And yes, Richard and others on this forum have been super informative and responsive. Great place to hang around.

[joe webb]

Just an update, I stained all the wood and my wife finally has chosen the tiles to go on the risers. I am planning to install the straight section with the rectangular steps this week end. Just to double chech few things:

1) When cutting the back (long side) of the treads, we cut straight down (perpendicular) right? no need to tilt the blade by 5 degrees which seems to be the best practice for risers.
2) Use PL Premium or Titebond wood glue to attach the new oak treads to the current plywood treads?
3) Same question as #2 for flooring
4) Are 2" 18 gage brad nails adequate to secure treads while the glue dries?
5) Given the stair nose (for the winders) has a 1.25" overhang, I plan to cut all treads to maintain that 1.25" overhang. Is that too much of overhang given I don't plan to use the cove moulding? I'd like the look of the cove moulding but I have not been able to bend them enough to fit the curved steps.
6) I plan to put the treads in front of the riser because cutting a straight line in wood is easier than in tiles. But for the winders, I am not so sure given it is multiple pieces of adjacent flooring. What do you think?
7) The stair nose has a groove, but flooring only has a tongue&groove on the long side. I am planning to use my router to cut a tongue on the short side of the flooring to slide into the nosing. I thought it would make the connection more flush but not sure if that is worth to justify the additional work.

Thank you all again for helping me plan this out. Although I have already done a lot of work such as removing carpet, clean up the stairs, painting the side skirts, cutting the overhang, staining the wood, lots of measuring, etc... it feels like the exciting stuff is only about to start this week end :-)

[joe webb]

Just an update, I stained all the wood and my wife finally has chosen the tiles to go on the risers. I am planning to install the straight section with the rectangular steps this week end. Just to double chech few things:

1) When cutting the back (long side) of the treads, we cut straight down (perpendicular) right? no need to tilt the blade by 5 degrees which seems to be the best practice for risers.
2) Use PL Premium or Titebond wood glue to attach the new oak treads to the current plywood treads?
3) Same question as #2 for flooring
4) Are 2" 18 gage brad nails adequate to secure treads while the glue dries?
5) Given the stair nose (for the winders) has a 1.25" overhang, I plan to cut all treads to maintain that 1.25" overhang. Is that too much of overhang given I don't plan to use the cove moulding? I'd like the look of the cove moulding but I have not been able to bend them enough to fit the curved steps.
6) I plan to put the treads in front of the riser because cutting a straight line in wood is easier than in tiles. But for the winders, I am not so sure given it is multiple pieces of adjacent flooring. What do you think?
7) The stair nose has a groove, but flooring only has a tongue&groove on the long side. I am planning to use my router to cut a tongue on the short side of the flooring to slide into the nosing. I thought it would make the connection more flush but not sure if that is worth to justify the additional work.

Thank you all again for helping me plan this out. Although I have already done a lot of work such as removing carpet, clean up the stairs, painting the side skirts, cutting the overhang, staining the wood, lots of measuring, etc... it feels like the exciting stuff is only about to start this week end :-)

[Paul Girouard]

Here’s your original thread. When you can’t find a thread you started use the forum tools by clicking on your name, that will pull up a section where you can select items such as your last post , your last thread started etc.

Your thread must have dropped to a lower page , or when you scrolled down you just didn’t notice your thread.

[joe webb]

Hello all,

Just want to share with the community my finished staircase. I also want to express my gratitude for all the kind people in this forum. I have never done stairs before and knew very little coming in. And I learned so much here and especially receiving quick help on some corner cases specific to my situation was invaluable. Given most info found online only covers the basic principles and techniques, I benefited a lot from your knowledge and experience which often was needed to unblock me in some unique situations.

I was told many times that this staircase isn't for a novice, thus I was very hesitant at first. But thanks to you all, once all my questions were answered here and I learned what I needed, I felt much more confident in tackling it. And I would say it was pretty smooth afterward. I took my time to measure, cut, dry fit, make templates, etc. and things aligned perfectly on first attempt. Understanding what needed to be done was the hardest part.

All said and done, it was a long but fun project and my wife is really pleased (the only metric that matters, hehe) with the end product. Some pics below. You can see the hand rail still have its original color. I will sand and stain it when the weather warms up again. The oil stain smells too bad and it's now frisky to keep windows open.

Thank you all. This forum rocks!

[Richard Wolf]

Good job, looks great.