Table saw top design

[Alan Marr]

I have designed a table saw top for the used table saw I got and would like to read feedback on it and maybe a question answered. (My first post)

The saw is an ancient Delta 10 inch (13A 110V) with plastic base and a 26 x 16 top so old that the mitre tracks are 5/8 wide, not 3/4. But the main strike against it is the flimsy metal fence. My big project, I am gearing up to, is making a modular box system with many boxes (about 15 inch cubes with 1x2s and 1/4" plywood).

I have very limited workspace; 6 x 8 feet dominated by workbench 6 ft x 26 inches (I store most stuff outside of the workspace). I don't have metalworking skills or tools. And I don't have a big budget.

My design motivations are:
- proper mitre track channels
- robust, fast, adjustable, safe fence
- accurate for 16th inch dimensioned work, so means +/- 1/32 or better.
- fit under the bench so one dimension less than 26 inches
- readily available materials:
- 3/4 plywood (6 ply)
- BusyBee / Lee Valley parts

Design Notes:

The table top is basically 26 x 36 inches. It will fit directly on the existing metal sawtop and be secured underneath by screw down swing tabs or better. About 2 inches of saw blade would protrude above the table. The mitre tracks would be glued in with Gorilla glue, and I believe there would be sufficient bracing under the plywood to maintain all the flatness needed.

The fence is secured against the front by a floating pressure block that is pressed on by cam lever. The fence is pulled tight against the table at the back by force transmitted through the fence and dowel. The dowel should be metal, I think, and there are two thicknesses of 3/4 plywood transmitting force through the fence. Note: When the fence is clamped, only the back runner takes force, not the front runner.

The faces of the runners front and back are 1/4" UHMW Polyethylene or equivalent. The rear runner would pivot on a dowel/rod that would allow the fence angle relative to the saw to be adjusted from the front.

The front runner is adjustable left and right on the fence with two captive knurled knobs (not illustrated) that push from two blocks attached to the fence. This allows making the travel as tight or loose as desired, but it also allows the fence to be adjusted parallel to the saw blade (or with fractional (say 1/64) veer away from the blade at the rear end of the fence). The front runner can be adjustable because it doesn't receive force.

The fence is removable. There is a 24 inch T-track on top of the left face of the fence. Clamp lever is Lee Valley but could be wood.


Feedback?

Questions

1. What should the fence height be? Currently I'm thinking 4 inches left and 3 inches right.

2. Could the design for the top(s) of the fence be improved?

--

395784395785395786

[Richard Coers]

You lost me with 15" cubes made with 1x2s. A 15" cube is 15x15x15.

[Alan Marr]

Don't worry about the cubes. All designed. It's simply a project to use the table saw for. Perhaps I should not have mentioned it.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Holy cow, dude...

You don't happen to be related to the woodgears guy, do you?

My (useful) feedback is:
1) How will you square the blade to the miter slots? Your "proper" miter slots are useless if they are not aligned to within a few thousandths to the blade, and I see no mention of how you'll do that. Swing tabs aren't going to give you the consistency and precision required. You need a firm lock down, and some sort of microadjust.

2) You probably want a removable insert around the blade


My (less useful) feedback is:
1) You'd have to value your time at almost nothing for this to be worthwhile. This is crazy. For the time and effort you're going to invest in this contraption, you could easily justify buying even a new jobsite table saw, and have something much more useful (and safer). Or get a tracksaw system. I think the parts for this, alone, are approaching that cost.

[Bill Dufour]

I would secure the top by drilling through both the wood and metal tops at the same time. I would use 1/4 20 flat head bolts. Use nuts and washers on the bottom. just locate the holes so they miss any critical bits underneath including ribs. If you need to you can enlarge the hole in the metal table to shift the wood top around for alignment.
Bill D.

[Alan Marr]

Thanks Dan.

That would be Matthias Wandel (http://woodgears.ca). Not related but I was influenced by his videos. I too like to approach many things with an engineering mindset.

Re squaring: I have been concluding that an adjustment like that would be needed and thinking of adjustment screws underneath near two corners (four screws). The saw underneath has a badly limited difficult to use non-system.

Re Insert: I can cut out one later.

Re Time: I like making things, I guess. The satisfaction of making something non-trivial work is worth a lot to me.

[Alan Marr]

Hi Bill,

I like your idea. It might be sturdiest and not hard to adjust. I had thought of that but rejected for no good reason. I had been worried that drilling down from the top would hit a rib at random, but after reading your post I realize I can drill from underneath. Thanks for making me think!

[Doug Garson]

I agree with Dan. You may be able to come up with a usable table top and fence system (but I have my doubts) but why put all that effort into an old saw with a plastic base and probably a screaming universal motor? I had one of those for about a week before I dumped it. If your space is really limited maybe consider a tracksaw setup. Check out this (and other videos ) by Peter Millard who works in a small shop and normally uses a Festool tracksaw and MFT table. For this project he is demonstrating what can be done on a tighter budget. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgW3DFKFKFE You could also check out Izzy Swan who did a test on a low budget track saw. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgW3DFKFKFE

[Pat Barry]

Years ago I made a plywood top for my cheap old job site table saw. I dud this specifically because that old fence was so bad and I wanted a bigger top. I used this for several years so I appreciate your desire to do this. My design was very simple but simple worked. I didn't even have miter gauge slots and that didn't keep me from making lots of things. My advice is "go for it".

[Jim Becker]

My very first "table saw" was similar to that unit and I bought a commercial offering to increase the table size and provide a higher quality fence. But even then, it was nearly impossible to get the fence to blade alignment as close as desired because the saw itself wasn't very beefy. I punted and bought a Delta contractors' style saw...which was night and day better. For the time, effort and money you'll put into building something that will likely be marginal simply because of the actual power tool it will support, you might want to consider finding a good used contractors' style saw or even a beefier used cabinet saw if you can support the power requirement. They will be safer to use and be a lot more accurate, too.

[johnny means]

I think you'd be better served using the saw as is. I'd put my effort into a well built sled and jigs that use the miter slots you have. When the time came to upgrade the saw, I'd simply change out the runners on all my jigging and have my system ready to go. The price of those fixtures you're thinking about would easily fetch a used contractor saw in my area.

[Alan Schwabacher]

It's too bad the youtube channel "Tim's How to Make" is now gone. It was a German guy who worked in a small space and built many of his own tools including a tablesaw built around a saw somewhat like what you are describing. He did a beautiful job, but when he finished he concluded that the saw would never work well because of the quality of the saw he began with: the fence and table were solid and precise, but the saw still cut poorly. He started over from scratch, and built himself a useful tablesaw from a higher quality circular saw.

There are quite a few people who build their own tools. There is no doubt that most of them could earn the money to buy a better saw in less time than it took to build, but many just like working with tools they built.

If you do decide to build, be careful about the parts you include in your build. Some parts from a cheap saw might be worthy of inclusion, but do not think of it as adding to the saw you have. Think of it as designing and building your own saw, with the existing saw as a collection of parts you can evaluate individually for whether they are worth using.

[Bradley Gray]

If you want to build a better saw, check out Gilliom Mfg. (636 724 1812). They sell a kit of metal parts and plans to build several machines including a tilt arbor table saw.

I still have a 6 x 48 belt sander I built 45 years ago.

[Rick Potter]

I would completely bypass the miter slots and build a sled that is guided by the nice, square to the blade, edges of the table you are building.

[Alan Marr]

I looked up Gilliom Mfg and found it very interesting. http://gilliom-gil-bilt-tool-hunter.blogspot.com/2009/01/so-heres-what-you-get-from-gilliom-mfg.html I'll definitely get their information kit for the *next* saw I make if I ever make it. Thanks Bradley.

[Alan Marr]

You've got me thinking 'simplification', Rick. Thanks! I'm wondering if a small set of easy to build sleds and jigs would make it possible to dispense entirely with a fence and its complications.

On the downside, a sled adds thickness. Could that problem be reduced by using a 'thin' sled that would get its flatness from the table it slides over?

[Rick Potter]

It wouldn't cost much to try making a top of 1/2"-3/4 melamine with no slots, shim your saw table flat with masking tape where necessary, and make a sliding sled out of 1/4" baltic birch.

Give it a try. Nothing to lose, and you will know if it is feasible.