Tried The Tormek Again...Back to Stones.

[Derek Arita]

I'm not saying the Tormek doesn't work. I'm just saying it doesn't work for me. I've had the Tormek for years and have added lots of the accesories trying to make it work for me. Try as I may, I just can't get a square edge on a chisel or plane iron. Even with Tormek's Truing Tool, it still doesn't work. I worked on two chisels for about an hour. They came out very sharp, but not square. I had to spend another 2 hours with sandpaper and stones, getting them back square. I guess the Tormek goes back on the shelf. At most, I may keep it out for the strop, but that's about it. What a shame.

[Ray Newman]

Derek: do not feel bad. I have the same problem....

[Derek Arita]

Thanks. Since I paid so much for the Tormek, I was hoping to be able to at least use it to establish primary bevels. It makes such a great grinder. Now I know I can't even use it for that. I'll likely find out I can't even use it as strop either. I hope that's not the case.

[Johannes Becker]

I had the same issue with squareness in the past. I invested in the upgraded edge jig (se 77) and that works much better for me. Easier to align and has built in adjustment screws to get square when you set it up or it gets out of square. So it was worth the investment. Not sure I would invest in a tormek if I had to do it all over again but it is a good upgrade if you already have one.

[ken hatch]

What Johannes said. The SE-77 jig fixes all the problems of the SE-66 jig. Before you give up on the Tormek try the SE-77 jig. I just use mine to repair cutters but it is worth having for that.

ken

[Derek Arita]

So...after I true the stone, I use the SE77 to square it up? Can you explain or are there Youtubes on it?

[Joey Naeger]

When using the square jig, keep a small mallet handy. Tap the iron left or right to adjust it in the jig and square the grind up. Don't bother aligning it to the 'square' edge. The tool rest bar has so much slop in it, you always have to compensate. The Tormek is a great machine, but you can not trust any of the jigs to get it right on their own.

[Derek Cohen]

I'm not saying the Tormek doesn't work. I'm just saying it doesn't work for me. I've had the Tormek for years and have added lots of the accesories trying to make it work for me. Try as I may, I just can't get a square edge on a chisel or plane iron. Even with Tormek's Truing Tool, it still doesn't work. I worked on two chisels for about an hour. They came out very sharp, but not square. I had to spend another 2 hours with sandpaper and stones, getting them back square. I guess the Tormek goes back on the shelf. At most, I may keep it out for the strop, but that's about it. What a shame.

One Derek to another :)

None of what you write is right. Either there is a fault in the way you use the truing tool, or the way you use the #76. I use the #76 in preference to the #77.

The truing tool should cause the tool rest to be parallel to the surface of the wheel. If it is not so, then it is user error.

Your #76 may be faulty. If so, determine this, and then file the side fence so that the blade sits square to the wheel. Mine is perfect.

Even if all is perfect, user error can creep in if you use unequalised down force on the blade.

Something must be in error since you have had and used it long. But to return to hand grinding .... Oh boy, no way!

Regards from Perth

Derek

[David Silverson]

Before you buy the se77 try using a small square with the se66 to square the blade in it. I have always done that and have no trouble getting the grind square.

[Tom Bussey]

I tend to agree with Derek. But you will never get anything square if the sides are not parallel. A lot of the old Stanley plane irons were not parallel.

But my question is: What different does it make if the edge is not perfectly square to the side? 99.99 percent of the time I am slicing, paring or chopping with a chisel and I don't care if the blade is perfectly square or not, only if it is sharp. And if it isn't sharp I stop and sharpen it or get a sharper one for that point of time. Which brings up another question and that is how sharp is sharp. NO work is being done or better yet no project is any closer to being completed if a person is spending all, his, her, time worrying if their tool is perpendicular to the side.

I built the project below and not once did I worry about my edge being square to the side. Or how sharp my tool was, only if it was sharp enough to get the job done.

395621395622

[David Silverson]

I agree, I don’t understand why a smidge off square would matter. Perhaps it’s more important if you use jigs to sharpen/hone.

[Derek Arita]

Tom, I totally respect whatever you have to say. I can only say that right now, I'm in sharpening mode and concentrated on doing the best I can with what I have. Since I have the Tormek, I'm trying to use it to get me as close to perfect as I can get. In my mind, basic chisels and plane iron "should" be square, unless otherwise designed, so that's what I work toward. In practice, will I ever get there? Likely not, but I feel that a $600 sharpener should help me get there, not take me further from it. Is it partly user error...yes, probably so, but the instructions don't tell me how to fix that.
If the Tormek can get me closer, I'll use it. If stones will get me closer, I'll use it. If the SE-77 will get me closer, I"ll use it. What works best, I"ll use it. That's all I'm saying.

[Pete Taran]

Derek A,

100% agree with what the other Derek said. Like any tool, you need to learn to use it. Once the stone is square after using the truing tool, you should have little error in your square set ups IF the thing you are sharpening has parallel sides. I just used my tormek yesterday to sharpen some scissors, it does a magnificent job. My wife couldn't believe how sharp they were.

A few things to keep in mind as you use your tool:

1) When you true the stone, take a light cut and move the thumb wheels as slow as possible. It does not cut aggressively, you should take as long as you can to give the diamond plenty of time to cut and true the stone. Going too fast will make the edge quite uneven.

2) Once the stone is true, use the angle jig to get the correct adjustment to the tool rest. If you are sharpening an iron that has a whacky bevel, you might consider getting it close first with a high speed vertical grinder.

3) When grinding with the now trued wheel, use the entire surface of the stone and go off the edge by some amount. You want to apply even pressure and use the entire surface of the wheel, not just the middle. You can use the adjustable stops to keep whatever you are sharpening from going off the edge of the wheel.

4) Check your work often, you should see a nice uniform bevel form. If you are grinding new material at the edge because the old bevel was too shallow, no need to do the whole thing. Stop when it suits you or half way, whichever comes first. If the new material is coming off the heel of the bevel, that will take some time, be patient. Having said that, even if the iron is a total basket case. you should be able to go from unusable to back in your plane cutting in 15 minutes. It you are spending longer than that, your technique is off.

5) Use the grading stone after a few sharpens to keep the wheel in good order. You should only retrue when it needs it.

6) Even pressure is what's important at the cutting edge. Don't bias the pressure to one side or guess what? The cutting edge will be angled to that side or perhaps curved.

7) Ensure that the tool rest has both knobs tightened.

8) Finally, ask around who has one and go watch them use it. It really is a magnificent tool, and it pains me to hear that anyone is not having good results. It's like having a Porsche 911 in your garage, but you can't drive it because you don't know how to drive stick. Learn how to drive stick!

Hope this helps.

Pete

[Andrew Seemann]

I've got the old green Tormek 2000, which I love, and I would second Pete's observations. I would add that when you put the blade in the jig, make sure you are firmly registered against the 90 guide side. Then make sure that you tighten the jig knobs very carefully so they exert even pressure. Remember to take into account that the knob on the other side of the 90 guide may have more leverage than the near one due to blade width. It can be very easy to twist the blade slightly when tightening the knobs. When you first start grinding, check that you are getting a 90 edge, before you get to far into the grinding, in case you need to adjust it.

I struggled with getting 90 egdes for a while when I first got the machine. For plane blades it isn't that import but out of 90 chisel blades drive me absolutely batty. It takes time and practice like anything else.

[phil harold]

When using the square jig, keep a small mallet handy. Tap the iron left or right to adjust it in the jig and square the grind up. Don't bother aligning it to the 'square' edge. The tool rest bar has so much slop in it, you always have to compensate. The Tormek is a great machine, but you can not trust any of the jigs to get it right on their own.

I think joe has the answer here
watch what you are doing and adjust accordingly

if you use sand paper and stones you must check your progress as you go, right?

I dont have a tormek I just bought a grizzly
I notice i can control squareness by how much time i spend grinding one side or another
these are water wheel grinders the big point is they do not over heat the blade like a high speed bench grinder does

[Derek Arita]

OK...thanks for all your replies. I really appreciate the help. I reset everything on the Tormek. I mounted a chisel on the SE66 and slide it on. When I rested the blade edge on the freshly trued stone, I saw that the inside edge of the blade was not contacting the stone. The blade rested on the left edge only. That's even though the guide post was checked to be parallel with the stone surface. That was the issue.
I went right out to Rockler and picked up an SE77 and tried it out. Just a little tweak of the 2 knobs got it grinding as close to a square edge as I could want. So, somehow the SE66 was not holding the chisel properly causing the out of square grind. Now, I've sharpened three chisels...2 good ones and one I bought as a beater/tester and all ground square and after stropping, are slicing very nicely. Thanks again for the help.

[Pete Taran]

Derek,

That SE66 jig is finicky. I push with my fingers of the holding hand while I lightly tighten the two adjustment knobs. It's easy to get it out of line. Now that you have a solution that works, practice on it and reap the rewards of how quick and easy it is to keep your tools sharp. I bought a second one so I can keep the 6000 grit waterstone mounted on that one. Rough grind on the green stone, microbevel on the other. Both pretty much stay set up for 25 degrees. Glad you are off to the races,

Pete

[Andrew Seemann]

Glad it worked out. I know a Tormek doesn't have that "working in a timber frame workshop that you built (and felled the timbers for), by candle light on a fine oil stone you hewed from the earth (and grew the crops that you pressed the oil out of), on chisels you forged from bloom iron out of a swamp" vibe, but sometimes the modern Neanderthal has to put aside their Romantic fantasies and get something done quickly and efficiently:)

Oh, and the candle was made from wax borne of the bees you raise:)

[Derek Arita]

LOL...:D. Now that's funny. I'm all for short cuts, as long they work.