Table Saw Arbor Issue

[Drew Walton]

Hello Creekers,

Recently I had made a post seeking advice about a possible table-saw purchase of a Delta table-saw and I got a lot of good information from the folks here about it. Unfortunately, after confirming the saw was still available, the seller was, apparently, upset by my counter-offer and went into radio-silence following that contact (I don't, in fact, know this was the reason but the timing works out). And there were other potentials that I had considered that didn't work out either.

Eventually I found a posting for a Craftsman 113.298032 saw that came with a 52" Biesmeyer fence, a (mostly) new diablo dado stack, a few other blades, a custom, wood, right hand extension table that went the length of the fence rail, and a few other goodies.

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All's good so far.

I start fiddling around with it and I look down the throat and I see something odd. There are two flat washers sandwiched between the arbor collar and the blade.

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Immediately I remove them and notice that there is a large amount of space on the arbor between the flange and the thread so I try mounting the blade without the washers and find that the threads don't extend far enough down for the nut to secure the blade.

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So now I'm thinking that the previous owner (who had told me he'd changed out the arbor and motor bearings at some point) had probably jacked up the flange while removing the original arbor bearings, and that I'm going to have to pull the arbor, get a gear puller, and pull the flange back down the arbor. Also, I'm thinking that since the flange is in the wrong place that means that the bearings aren't seated properly on the arbor either so I'm going to have to reseat them as well. So I gird my loins and pull the carriage assembly so I can get a better look at it.

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So far so good. I can see what looks to be a mark indicating the original position on the arbor of the flange.

For no particular reason I reach in and just grab the flange. From what I've read, I think it should be (pretty much) static on the arbor, but it's not: it's tight on there but if you treat it gently it moves without much force and will even come off.

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As of now, the carriage is sitting in my garage with the flange attached and pushed all the way to the bearing.

So now, because I know a lot of people have had these 113 saws, I'm here to ask the experts some advice.

I'm assuming that using the saw with the flat washers between the collar and blade is a bad idea. If I take out the arbor, and reseat the bearings so that they're in the proper position and get everything put back together correctly, I'm still left with a loose (sort of) flange. Is this usable? Is the arbor flange supposed to have some movement to it or is it supposed to be basically locked to the arbor? Do I need to buy a new arbor assembly entirely?

Thanks in advance.

-Drew

[Bill Dufour]

That flange should be absolutely rigid to the arbor. Not unknown for them to be machined from one piece. I would be comfortable locking it is place with one of the locktite speciality products. that is as good as brazing it. With no risk of heat warping the bits.
Bill D.
Maybe loctite 660,662. or others.
Probably have to find at a bearing store or online.

[Lee Schierer]

I have a similar model. Mine is a 113.298720. Based on my saw your next to last photo has the flange located correctly on the shaft, but the shaft is not correctly located in the bearings. Here are photos taken of my saw.
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Note the measurement from the inside of the of the recess in the flange to the threads. Also note the location of the arbor flange to the bearing housing and the amount of cast iron carriage showing through the throat opening.

As far as locking the flange back on the shaft. Use Loctite #680 for retaining slip fit collars on shafts. It is permanent so be careful when you position it.

You will probably need to adjust the pulley alignment once you get the arbor shaft located correctly.

[Drew Walton]

Yeah, in that second to last picture the flange is placed where the markings on the arbor were that I had alluded to earlier. I'm glad so see that it appears to be the correct location. I tried to remove the pulley when I was doing all of this and it was stuck. Any advice on removing it without destroying it? Would some Lithium grease or something similar do the trick? I know I can just go loan out a gear puller for it but I'm worried that such an action will destroy the pulley. I know they're not that expensive to replace but I don't have one on hand and I was hoping I wouldn't have to order one (but if I must then I must).

[Bill Dufour]

Check that there is not another setscrew under the one you have removed. Squirt penetrating oil of choice down the setscrew hole and all around both ends. wait a few days, ad heat, if you can, then use a puller and a gear splitter so you do not bend the pulley.

[Drew Walton]

Thank you sirs.

[Lee Schierer]

Many years ago I replaced the factory pulleys with machined steel ones. The belt was replaced with a link belt. The reduction in vibration was very noticeable. I would highly recommend the change.

Have you tried tapping lightly on the shaft to push it back into the bearings where it is supposed to be? There are two snap ring grooves on the arbor shaft that should lock it in place on the second bearing. There is also supposed to be a bearing retainer on the second bearing.

[Bill Dufour]

Note that most bearing splitters can also act as pullers. Just need to add two studs with nuts and a simple cross piece with a forcing screw.
BIL LD

https://www.otctools.com/products/bearing-splitter-1

[Drew Walton]

Many years ago I replaced the factory pulleys with machined steel ones. The belt was replaced with a link belt. The reduction in vibration was very noticeable. I would highly recommend the change. The saw came with a link belt, and I'm not certain if the pulleys were replaced, and if so, with what. For what it's worth, the current pulley is shiny silvery metal so I assume steel.


Have you tried tapping lightly on the shaft to push it back into the bearings where it is supposed to be? There are two snap ring grooves on the arbor shaft that should lock it in place on the second bearing. There is also supposed to be a bearing retainer on the second bearing.

I was actually wondering about this. The snap ring grooves on the arbor surrounding the lands...as it appears that the bearings are installed in an incorrect location, should I assume that the snap rings are no longer present on the arbor inside the casing? If so, do you know a good supplier with the Sears bankruptcy and all?

[Ronald Blue]

Are you referring to the snap rings? They are likely standard and should be able to be sourced from any good hardware store, Fastenal, Grainger, McMaster-Carr, or bearing supply house.

[Rick Potter]

I don't have this saw, but is it possible the previous owner 'adjusted' this on purpose, so he could fit on a larger dado stack?

[Drew Walton]

I suppose it's possible but there's still plenty of room on the arbor for the full stack to fit with the collar and nut when the flange is placed in the proper spot.

[Drew Walton]

As an update. I got the pulley off. If came off smooth and easy (and undamaged!) with the added help of a puller.

I was unable to remove the woodruff key. I tried everything that I could think of, heat, cold, penetrating oil, banging on it a bit with a chisel. The end result was the the arbor was sliding through the carriage without removing the key. So I ended up knocking the arbor out of the carriage the 'wrong' direction. Here's what I have found:

- The bearings were indeed placed on the arbor in the wrong position.
- The E clip that was supposed to be placed in the groove to the inside of the arbor by the bearing nearest the pulley was there.
- The spring clips were missing, but the one that should have been nearest the flange had been replaced by another E clip which was too big so it just ended up mostly sliding up and down the arbor inside the housing.
- The arbor seems to be straight, so that's good.

After this, I have a new hypothesis on how the saw ended up this way: the previous owner went to change the arbor bearings and couldn't remove the woodruff key, so he decided to pull the flange off and go the other way.

I bought a small set of spring clips but the size I needed was not in the box (even though it was supposed to be). I've since sourced a different set of clips which does have the size I need. I've got the bearing nearest the pulley positioned correctly, and when I get the spring clips installed I'm going to stick the arbor in the freezer and then drop it into place and re-attach the pulley. Then, with the bearings positioned correctly, I'm going to adhere the flange to the arbor with the Loctite 680 I bought (based on the product literature I would have preferred 662 but I couldn't source it, I think it might be out of production). I'll let that cure for about a several days and then put the saw back together, hopefully I won't have to play with the pulley alignment too much. Then it's time to make some sawdust.

[Lee Schierer]

It is nice that you provided an update and that the update was good news for you. You'll enjoy that saw. Once you get it reassembled do an alignment check/adjust. I use full kerf Freud blades on mine and they work very well. I also built and enxtension table out the back of the saw so I can work with longer pieces without a helper.

[Jacob Reverb]

Glad to hear you got it straight. My father built quite a bit of custom furniture in the '60s through early '90s with a saw a lot like yours. Best of luck with it.

[Drew Walton]

Update 2: The arbor is back in the carriage, and the carriage is back under the table. As with Lee's picture I have just about 1/4" from the inside of the flange to the start of the threads. With the collar on, the nut fits well on a standard thickness blade. I aligned the saw last night (It came with a PALS) and then checked the runout on the flange and it's just a hair under 0.001"

So hurrah!

I realized just before going to bed that I didn't check runout on the arbor itself so I need to that, but with a flange runout of less than a thousanth of an inch it would be a crazy coincidence if the arbor runout was bad. Now I need to reattach the power leads on the motor to the switch and I'm good to go.

I have got one more question though, for the reassembly. How tight should the pivot arm screw be on the motor mount? It seems like there should be some give in the pivot arm for raising and lowering of the blade height: i.e. if it's locked down tightly, raising the blade would cause extra tension on the belt which would artificially limit your blade height. But on the flip side, not having it locked down might cause increased vibration. So which should it be?

EDIT: I just read through the section in the manual and it covers my question so don't worry about it.

[Lee Schierer]

Excellent, I'm glad it has worked out for you.