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John Lifer
10-23-2018, 7:00 PM
I know the question has come up before on CO2 engraving and cutting, and I do have that side of my business pretty well honed to where I'm happy with pricing.
But where I hit a brick wall is on my Fiber.
Yes I should charge what the traffic will bear. And I do..... One offes have a minimum and specialty items are even more.

Where I'm having an issue is industrial or semi industrial. Again, if it is multiples of the same engraving, say small logo onto a part, I can work through the numbers of parts per hour and get at least starting idea.
Unpackaging and repackaging even into a baggie takes time and I try to account for that also. It is easy to run through 500 parts pretty darn quick even doing one at a time like that.

Where I'm hitting a wall is doing multiples of the same item, but different engravings onto each. Say I have a hundred of the same item, but each will have a different engraving.
No, not sequential numbers. Say Random numbers that have no sequence. And I might have 25 today and 150 tomorrow all different numbers/letters.
I can set up probably 4 or 6 up, so I can pick and place multiples to lower that time, but I have to download the engraving number, export to EzCad and then place in correct position and engrave, pick and back in proper baggie.
Rinse and repeat.


And there may be 5 to 25 different items ultimately. So I may have 5 of each of 5 items for 25, or 5 of each of 25 for 125 total.

How to charge? Total time per item? Engraving time for the 4 items is say a minute. Can't charge for just engraving time.
Pick and place at least a minute for 4. And download and send to ezC is another minute per item (maybe more) So charge for total time? 2 min 15 sec? or should it be a minimum per part regardless?

It is Monkey work, and I need a Monkey job right now, but this has potential of being a 10 hour a day monkey job.
And I don't want to work for bananas.
Yes, lot of junk in this post, but,
Any suggestions?

Kev Williams
10-23-2018, 10:35 PM
Figure out a baseline price for engraving without variables, and add a few cents for those with variables. For the same parts engraved in second places, I charge 50 to 75% of baseline prices. Why? Because they're already unwrapped, which takes way more time than the engraving. Some of the parts I'm doing recently, just pure engraving time is getting close to $1000 per hour. But once you factor initial setup time and unwrap/rewrap time, the per-hour rate goes down dramatically!

As to your all-over-the-map variable text, have you used EZcad's variable text setup? It works slick as snot! All you need is your variables entered line by line in notepad. EZcad will then insert the correct text for each subsequent part, AND, it'll display the variable it's about to engrave on the screen so you know it's right! Even fancydancy Corel and Gravostyle won't do that! And it goes so fast you'll forget all about doing multiples, it'll take you longer to load 6-up than one 'n' done 'n' change... It will let you stop and then restart the list from anywhere within the list. It'll also insert variables from Excel, although I've never done that yet, but I assume it'll work great for inserting multiple variables on the same part...

You just need your customer to supply you the variables in electronic form. Just copy & paste, no typing, no typing errors :D --but even if you have to hand type, it goes MUCH faster batch-typing in notepad than editing text one part at a time!

There are some issues to be aware of, ANY stops in one engraving and the list advances, so there's a little paying-attention to do...
But once you get rolling.... http://www.engraver1.com/gifs/gears.gif

John Lifer
10-24-2018, 9:41 AM
Thanks Kev, yeah, I've reached that on some of my parts, 3 second engraving time on a part is 1200 pieces an per hour. I charged $.95 per part so it is $1140 per hour. Great right? Well unpackaging , placing, and packaging back it down to about 15% of that. Which was about what the traffic could bear on those parts.

No, I haven't gotten that far with variables. I've imported some lists, but not to this level. This job WILL be electronic, Zero typing into computer due to errors that causes. So let me go play a bit more with eZCad.

Brennan Sheremeto
10-24-2018, 11:05 AM
I was going to suggest something similar to kev. A friend runs trailer VIN plates on his engraving and all the info comes from an excel sheet he supplied them to fill out and he programmed to automatically import into his engraving program.

Trey Tull
10-24-2018, 11:10 AM
I have a customer right now that has me marking some parts for $.30/item and it takes anywhere between 2-5 seconds per item (fiber laser). Some orders will be 25 pieces and some will be 3000+ When the job initially started, I tried marking six parts at a time but found that I could run them faster one by one. The issue with these parts is similar to yours, they come wrapped and then after the marking, I have to put each one back in its wrapper. If we use 3.5s per part, then that's $1,028/hour for laser time but when you factor in the unwrapping/wrapping/boxing/shipping/etc......the $$'s per hour comes WAY down.

I have the CO2 pricing down pretty well like you, but the fiber has been a challenge so far.

Kev - Good info on EzCad. I wasn't aware that it had that capability. Thank you sir!

Bill George
10-24-2018, 12:04 PM
Hire a part timer, pay him cash just to un-package and re-package while all you do is run the job.

John Lifer
10-24-2018, 12:28 PM
OK, It WORKS. And was easier than using excel file like I did in the past. Set up a notepad file with nine different sets of text. line return between each.
Set up variable text for that file. Copied and pasted twice for three copies. And modified one for taking the 2nd line and skipping three, third for taking third line and skipping three. Obviously can alter the laser settings for the three different copies. Hit engrave and does first three, again, engraves second three and repeat for third set. Sweet! Thanks Kev!

And Trey, Go play with the variable text. I knew it worked with excel file, but was a bit finicky. Hadn't tried plain old Notepad file. It works SWEET. (oh, have to select the file if you want to modify, that is a pain to remember) And Yeah, if I had 3000 of one item, it would be someone opening and packing. Way faster to run 4 up (or more if you can.) I've two plastic parts I bleach their logo and name into. One is tiny, and I have 16 set up in jig. Have to do both sides, so I actually can flip about 8 to 12 while laser is running. Bleaching each takes two passes and about 6 seconds a part. Loose packaging so that makes it easy.

John Lifer
10-24-2018, 12:29 PM
Hire a part timer, pay him cash just to un-package and re-package while all you do is run the job.

If I have to.... Wife will most probably be that part timer. She's good for that.

Trey Tull
10-24-2018, 12:42 PM
If I have to.... Wife will most probably be that part timer. She's good for that.

Same here :)

Kev Williams
10-24-2018, 1:06 PM
quickie basic primer on variables for EZcad (the fast version) ;)

First, put in your non variables, then your variables. Locate the variables where they'll be, just type anything as the name, it doesn't matter-- I just named mine 'names' and 'dates'. Also shown are the two notepads which will be my variable lists, I saved them in 'my documents' so I could find them easy..
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Next, I click on the 'names' text, after it's hightlighted in the text box, check 'enable variable text'-- then the variables options menu pops up, click on 'ADD'--this opens the variables main menu. Many options, including reading directly from a serial port! That's past my pay grade, so I've checked the "FILE" selections, which opens the section to the right, giving you the option of TxT or Excel, TxT is the default-- to the right of the 'filename' window is a >>> button, I click that, and choose my "names" notepad. Note below that, you have 'Line No.' and 'Increment' choices, 1 and 1 simply means you'll start at line 1 and it'll move in 1 line increments. All this is adjustable if need be. Sometimes one will mess up and you need to stop to start over; just enter the line number you want to start with and it'll restart the job from there (finding the line # sometimes requires a little hunting and pecking in large files.)
also note the "read all files", this will print the entire variable list on-screen, which I'll get to in a sec--
Anyway, click OK when done here...
395404

So my 'names' variable is in place, it's on screen, and in the grayed text box. And note in the variables option box is my list file.
Now, repeat the procedure to get the dates list in place; click on the 'dates' text, ADD, click 'file', pick the 'dates' notepad file, OK..
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This screen shows the 'read all lines' option- it clusters it up with the other text but oh well-
NOW, to access the main variables menu, first you must click on the filename in the box to highlight it, then hit "MODIFY"- nothing will happen if you don't highlight the filename.. this is because you can ADD another variable to the original variable, which will be added to the same line, useful if you have several variables in the same line you don't want in 'column' format. But if you want each variable in a specific place, then use separate variables like I just did...
I've never gotten into the DELETE, PREV and NEXT buttons yet, I just know DON'T hit DELETE! or you have to re-do the variable :)
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The neat thing is the next variables to engrave will be on-screen to verify before hitting the dreaded start button. All hatch fills and such apply to all variables...

Hope this helps! The basic variable routine is pretty easy once you get the hang of it!

Tim Bateson
10-31-2018, 8:58 AM
Pricing - the age old question. A lot of good advice above.
Personally I shoot for the $100/hr target, but am not afraid to shoot for the stars. I have some industrial work that pays as high as $800/hr (great money, but low volume). I locked one customer into a long term contract by reducing their usual $600/hr charge down to $500/hr. That was a massive savings for them. HOWEVER, you WILL scare a few customers away at that pricing, so pay close attention to both verbal and body cues. I've had on occasion quoted high, could read that was going to be an issue and instantly offered a "discount" if they provide slightly higher volume.
I also do some work at $25-$50/hr rate for some older/original customers.

Trey Tull
10-31-2018, 12:55 PM
Pricing - the age old question. A lot of good advice above.
Personally I shoot for the $100/hr target, but am not afraid to shoot for the stars. I have some industrial work that pays as high as $800/hr (great money, but low volume). I locked one customer into a long term contract by reducing their usual $600/hr charge down to $500/hr. That was a massive savings for them. HOWEVER, you WILL scare a few customers away at that pricing, so pay close attention to both verbal and body cues. I've had on occasion quoted high, could read that was going to be an issue and instantly offered a "discount" if they provide slightly higher volume.
I also do some work at $25-$50/hr rate for some older/original customers.

Good feedback Tim. Thanks for sharing your experiences.

John Lifer
11-01-2018, 11:06 AM
Yeah, I don't know if I'll even get a chance to quote, they found a couple of other guys around here that they are looking at also. I need the work, but I'm not doing it for $20 an hour :) I've really got to see the true variety of the things they want to engrave to give them a final price. Volume is going to be low for a good while, so I really don't want to set up and do $10 at a time if I can help it.